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Australia should not 'rescue' illegals in Indonesia's search and rescue zone. Australia should cut all aid and ties with Indonesia until Indonesia starts acting like a good international citizen.
I am happy Australia and Indonesia goes to War now. Do you agree Mr Richard?If Australia goes to war so you can expand your country to South East Asia till Malaysia and Thailand then the assylum seeker can stay there under Australia flag. OK>>> if you think different, then your country do not have courage to go to the war with Indonesia
Philip, what a waste of an education.
By the way, Asylum seekers from North Africa caught in the Mediterranean Sea are being processed on an Italian island "Lampedusa" close to Tunisia. The EU is following the charter of right human rights. The asylum seekers will be processed accordingly and weed out who may not be eligible to migrate. Can Australia do the same...NOT. Many liberal Australians believe that seeking asylum is not a crime.
Agree,my country Indonesia do not need any aid from Australia, we are big enough country with big enough resources. we just need to learn how to manage it properly. they aids Australian always talking about only goes to the pocket of blood sucking Indonesian corruptor,like usual. cut all the ties. history tell us that for hundred years the Western (Australia included) have so many wrong doing toward others,for example take other people land and resources, invent Racist and slavery, and so on. only in recent history they pretend that they understand that all man have equal right.the truth is the Western wolf never change, they just re invent them self, with new face, new way and method doing same old thing they have been doing it for hundred years maybe thousand years. my advise to all Indonesian, please pay your attention and becarefull with peoples who have long history of abusing other people right,especially those because taking other people land they become your neighbor.history always repeat itself
Mbah, Tell me about Papua, Timor Timor, 1965, the slaughter of innocents after the war. Indonesia is in no position to talk about taking other people's land.
As an Indonesian, I am trying to be objective but this is just too much. I think it's time for the Indonesian government to stay firm and show their Australian counterpart that diplomacy is over and we have the means and power to give a nose-bleeding treatment to whoever trying to challenge our sovereignty.
Let me understand this Legowo. Indonesian flagged boat, Indonesia crew, cargo of undocumented people facilated by Indonesian Officials to be transported to Australia runs into trouble in Indonesia's search and rescue zone and somehow Australia is challenging Indonesia's sovereignty? What are you smoking?
How about if Australia starts assisting undocumented personnel in and out of Papua? Seems fair to me.
Oh and totally off the topic but for EID, I see where QANTAS with her protected skies and government handouts totally shafted the city of Geelong this week. What great bunch.
Do you agree to have WWW 3 now? Please do not blame assylum seeker. If your country want to assist Papua people to become your citizen, then you do it. Finally, Asia people see Australian arrogant now under new goverment. Do you think your countries in Europe now?
Still here Phil? WW3 You over estimate yourself. If you an incapable of answering a distress call 27Km from Java, how on earth are you going to get to Australia? I guess we could come and pick you up.
Yes! Yes! Better to watch these useless peons die in Indonesian waters than to allow someone with some basic humanity try to save them. (Irony button firmly pressed).
Surely boat arrivals are acting illegally, not because they are on boats, but because they (are trying to) enter Australia without authority to do so.
Just confusing the issue to a point of no return...Together( Australia & Indonesia) collect every boat people , take them back to Jakarta, process their identity and return them to their country of origin. (Share the cost) These people could be wanted for many reasons including mass murder. Whatever happens to them when they arrive back at their homeland is their very own faith. If they have done wrong, they will face the law of the country like anywhere else. If they refuse to corporate, make it internationally known of the 10 years minimum jail sentence including families. In no time , amazing outcomes will be achieved. Remember many families uses their children. Be blunt about the jail sentence if they don't corporate. They will eventually co-operate a while later behind those cells in Jakarta....as soon as deportations are happening , news will travel where it needs travelling and we will only see fishing boats with fisherman and his catch.
These asylum seekers are just the 'advance party' for a take over of Australia. It seems that with only just about 25m Australians spread out over the biggest sparsly populated land mass left in the world, there must be a big temptation to have a slice or even a crumb of the cake. A lot of Australians think that the status quo will never change. I think they are wrong and time will, in say the next 30 - 50 years, tell the story. In short, Australia cannot keep the continent to itself forever as a British colony from faraway times. Nor should it keep believing that such will forever be the case. Nature will increase populations else where, science will allow people to live much longer and technology will make the Australian contintent a much more liveable place.
Australia has poured millions and millions of dollars into Indonesia over decades. Thousands of Indonesian students have trained in Australia. Despite the Bali bombing and the bombing of the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, Australians have immense goodwill towards Indonesia. Hugh amounts were donated by ordinary Australians after the tsunami. The Indonesia Government now has the chance to show the world its political and humanitarian leadership by taking back these boatloads of foreigners who are abusing Indonesian hospitality, bribing their officials and undermining the relationship with a close and friendly neighbour. Australia doesn't want them. Indonesia doesn't want them. Stronger action must be taken to deter their entry from source countries.
If Australi feel to pour money useless to Indonesia, why your country do not want to start War with Indonesia. You have to understand who produce the law of assylum seeker in United Nations. Then your country must claim the law of assylum seeker in United Nations are totaly Big Mistakes.
Alan...how are you supposed to do that when these people may also be the victims of post 9/11. A mislead war in Irag in which Howard agreed with GW Bush about WMD in Irag triggering an avalanche of chaos in the Islamic world. You and Indonesia have to deal with these refugees, asylum seekers or what have you leaving their homeland for better pasture.
These people are already in Christmas Island and on the way to Nauru ....
nope 22 they are being held on the ship that rescued them. The problem is not the illegal immigrants (yes that's what they despite the apologists) but the Indonesian crew With RI refusing to take all on board back this is presenting something of a diplomatic issueBut, again for the record they were some 400km from Xmas island and some 40km from Indonesia and within Indonesian SAR waters An Indonesian boat inside Indonesian water crewed by Indonesians transporting illegal cargo - people smuggling if you will
What are you? Biggest liar in century? They are in Christmas Island. Read this
For the record the shortest distance between Java and Xmas island is 431km The Indonesian authorities are criminally negligent end of story
It is simple just don't pick them up unless in Australian waters it is Indonesia problem to go to the aid of SOS calls in it's waters not Australia's, if Asylum seekers make it to Australia waters and then it is Australian responsibility to go to the aid. And If picked up in Australian waters and the Asylum seekers say they are Asylum seekers they are illegal because they come from boat that would be impossible to sail from such far, then send them back by plane to the country they have citizenship to the next day regardless of punishment they get when they get back to there home land. And bill the country for the problem there citizen have caused. If they have no passport but have enter Indonesia on one before they set sailing to Australia then they committed a crime of fraud and should be Jaid upto 5 years than sent home to there country of citazenship. This what I would do if I was PM.
Let me get this strait. Asylum seekers go to Indonesia by plane show there passports, stay for some weeks or days, then pay big money to a corrupt indonesia citizen to go to Australia by boat illegally. The asylum seekers put out a stress call saying they are at sea and in trouble in Indonesia warters, then Australia not Indonesia goes to their aid and rescue them in Indonesia warters. Australia Navy goes to send them back to Indonesia for that they are not refugees because they come from Indonesia. Than Indonesia says we won't take them back because they don't except asylums but they came from Indonesia. Lol ok. AUSTRALIA STOP PICKING UP ILLEGAL BOATS IN INDONISA WATERS IF THEY DROWN IT IS INDONESIA PROBLEM NOT AUSTRALIA. STOP ALL TRADE WITH INDONESIA, ALL FAKE ASYLUM SEEKERS WHO MADE IT TO AUSTRALIA BOARDERS BY BOAT SEND THEM BACK TO THERE HOMELAND OFF CITAZINSHIP THE NEXT DAY, AND BILL THEIR COUNTRY FOR THE AIRFARE.
Citazinship, what does it mean? THEIR not there. THEN not than. Yes, please stop all trade between Indonesia and Australia. haha.
Once these "tourist" arrive in our country legally they can depart legally through the many exit points (airports and ports of international departure) of our country. Their visas will be stamped upon departure. If they choose to depart without their visas being stamped (therefore automatically using non legitimate exit points), be it a beach from any of our 17.000 islands than obviously they are exiting our country illegally. Second, If they were in Indonesian waters, why is the Australian Navy "sending them back to Indonesian waters ?" They were already in Indonesian waters, or am i missing something ? And if the Indonesian authorities gave clearance to come to the rescue of the vessel, why is our government suddenly irritated by this move ?
Logical idea Nathan- but Australians act from a sense of humanity, unlike our own feudal rulers, to whom people are simply assets or liabilities.
Now I see a clearer picture that you may be an Indonesian with a "je ne sais quoi" attitude after studying in OZ in the earlier days?? Am I right?
So what does Australia do with the Indonesian crew who brought the boat full of illegals that now Indonesia doesn't want back? Is Indonesia also not accepting back its own citizens who sailed the boat from Indonesia? Can Indonesia not accept that the boat came from Indonesia, was crewed by indonesians and so therefore they have responsibility to take it back.
they cannot ... However (as has happened before) when Australia jails the crew only to find half are children Australia will be accused of child abuse
Of course Indonesia does not want these illegal people back. They have already bribed Indonesian Government officials to go to Australia. They have paid their fare to Australia and expect the Australian navy taxi to pick them up. If they are also Shia Muslims then of course Indonesia does not want this people.
Why not ? By your reasoning we can accept them back and expect another round of bribes. That would double our investment right ?
seriously with the amount of money at stake for the smugglers do u think indonesia has any intention of killing the cash cow $25 dollars for a tourist visa $10,000 for an exit permit via a death trap wooden fishing boat
exit permits apply to kitas and kitap holders. Not tourist visas or cultural visas or other business visas or any other type of visas.
See the Australian report -
"The boat sent out an SOS the previous day when it was just 40km from the coast of Java and the Ballarat urged its crew to turn about and sail back to Indonesia.
An Indonesian patrol boat arrived on the scene soon afterwards and told the crew and their desperate passengers to keep going towards Christmas Island.
Under the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) provisions the rescued asylum seekers must be landed at the nearest port and that is in Indonesia.
However Indonesian authorities have refused to take them and have denied the Ballarat permission to enter their waters."
Indonesia is instructing the illegals to sail to Australia!!!
still confusing. Was the boat in Indonesian or Australian waters or was it outside of both territorial waters ?
Port is by law 'any place where persons and merchandise are allowed to pass, by water or land, into and out of a country and where customs officers are stationed to inspect or appraise imported goods.' there's no such a thing on the south coast of Java. Christmas Island is the nearest 'port'.
Nope - good try but there is at least 1 port with immigration and customs on the south coast of Java, it is at Cilacap. Now I have no idea which was closest but the fact is this boat was Indonesian, probably manned by Indonesians and it was in Indonesian waters, irrespective of its cargo (which were people committing an illegal act by trying to enter a country illegally after leaving one illegally)
Thank you Indonesia for telling Australians what is going on because the Australian government have a code of silence and tell us nothing
Please stop using the term "Ilegal" to persecute people already persecuted enough.
"Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are not acting illegally. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum."
"They are not "illegals". They have broken no law and they have a right under international law to seek asylum."
Presumably, they arrived in Indonesia legally, stayed there for a while, then decided to move on to Australia at great personal risk, aided by people smugglers possibly including some police/military.
I thought that leaving Indonesia without a valid exit permit of some kind is a violation of Indonesian Immigration rules.They are at least "illegal" in this sense.
When you enter Indonesia you may need a visa (on arrival). Like in your country you have different types of visa. I assume the large majority entered Indonesia on a tourist visa or illegal. When you exit our country and the visa has not expired you will be stamped on your visa. Pretty much the same as in many countries in the world. Obviously when you are exiting Indonesia while having entered our country illegally no stamps in (often "missing") pasports can be expected. Exit permits only apply to foreigners who have a resident permit, Kitas or Kitap.
Please attribute your quotation.
Please stop your leftist rubbish. These boat people are Illegal, despite your protestations. They leave Indonesia illegally, abuse that countries welcome, destroy their documentation, pay illegal fees to people smugglers, and do not want to live in malaysia or Indonesia where they are not welcome either. They are purely economic country shoppers.
I agree completely. But are most immigrants all over the world not mainly economic country shoppers ?
Please explain how reaching the south coast of Java equals arrival in Australia.
They are not persecuted. They are economic migrants not real refugees.
How do you know? Have you interviewed each one personally?
Could it be considered a provocative act towards Indonesia when Australian Navy vessels are so close to Indonesia; and just so happen to be in a position to rescue the ailing asylum boat, before the Indonesians could respond to the emergency from a mere 45klm's away ?
Yes, I think with the priority given by the Australian government to the illegal immigration issue you would expect the Australian Navy to be patroling their sea borders far more frequently and with far more vigour. And yes, because the Australian Navy is probably far more equiped than the Indonesian navy and coast guard to react swiftly.
I think you will find the Aussies have ben requested to attend by the Indonesian navy. The Indonesian navy vessels may not be in the area as they may have been off running some other side business as the TNI does regularly here.