I have found this on all of my Active Directory machines which are supposedly immune to this nonsense. Microsoft is rapidly loosing all of their trust with folks now.

Best time ever to switch offices to Linux. LibreOffice has been upping their game like hell, tools for all categories of production are extremely competitive with the traditional Windows tools be it audio, video, 2D, 3D, obviously code...

Almost everyone I know who hasn't switched to Linux has said the same thing: it's not because the OS is bad or anything, it's because the community is made of creepy, sheltered, fanatics in echo chambers.

They're basically saying that dealing with MS is preferable to dealing with you.

Cut it out.

You have obviously never called Microsoft to get anything fixed in their OS. Based on my experiences you might as well be howling at the moon.

No, zman58, hairlessOrphan is right. You make many good comments too, but you are a rarity. I spent 3 whopping YEARS trying to get help from Linux folk (esp. in Ubuntu forums) to no avail. Very snotty group. Till I found bleepingcomputer, and for the first time real Linux folk. Else, only Trappp (who frequents Computerworld and no longer via Disqus).

Only this past JUNE was I able to get MS Office 2003 to install on my Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, and Fedora 22 external installs (same procedure as internal install, but the target is an external drive or stick, simple howto is here, http://brainout.net/frankfo... ).

And that, only because someone in bleeping had an article on it by howtogeek.

So for the first time, I am finally in a position to move my 19 Windows business machines off Windows. But don't have to.

THAT is the secret: 'don't have to'. I surf with Linux when desired, and my underlying Windows machines are protected. Else, I use them offline, no messing with updates. Not networked, either. (Easier to carry sticks back and forth, or clones.)

So now I don't need to learn Linux, and don't need to mess with the so-proud-of-themselves-for-knowing-CLI geeks.

There is an arrogance problem in both sides. MS is indeed the bigger arrogance, but the Linux community needs some humility if it wants desktop to succeed.

Yes, and it doesn't really take ten times as long to get active directory working in a linux-only system.

Oh.

No, wait!

Yes it does!

Why would you use AD with Linux? Use an LDAP......You've clearly never used Linux except maybe for 5 minutes to complain about how there are no install wizards and you have to memorize commands.

So what you're saying is that, because win pre-uploads an installation file to user machines, William's company should:

a: Install Linux, an operating system that it's likely few of the employees have used.

b: Install libre office, a suite of programs that few of the employees are likely to have used.

c: Get rid of the whole corporate security/single-sign on suite, and install something else that also requires people to go through a painful learning period.

How many millions do you think is appropriate for William's company to spend/lose on all the required training/productivity-loss of this?

Essentially, you're saying that the company should change the way it does *everything*, and retrain *everyone* because you can adequately play games on your linux box in your mother's basement.

A few gig of wasted disc space is an annoyance. The solution to that annoyance is to free up the space, not spend millions and face a year of disruption.

You like linux, we get that. Just shut up about it, because the whole world doesn't live in your mother's basement, and we don't need advice from people who seem unable to think beyond "it works for me on my single, stand-alone PC!" and "If someone doesn't adore linux, they obviously don't know anything about it!"

I have two linux boxes. Unlike my windows boxes, they are not always on, because they are not as useful as the windows boxes. I'm possibly more expert with linux than most linux evangelists, because I have to do things that go far beyond "normal usage".

You need to think outside of the box. You are stuck in a Windows only world of the 90s..

Doing the things you suggest may actually save Williams company a $ton in the long run. If you can use Office you can use LibreOffice. If you can navigate XP/7 you can navigate a modern Linux desktop. Users are not stupid. You make it sound like they somehow can't learn anything new, yet they would be OK moving from Win XP to Win 10??

What is their annual licensing costs for Windows server and client systems and Office applications?

Single sign on can be a big security problem. If someone gets somebody's credentials they then have the keys to "everything" that person can do--this is very bad indeed. Consider they may be a domain or database administrator. You should be using separate logins for non-related business boundaries and process. In addition, if you are using federated security with third parties, those credentials could get hacked from afar.

With Linux there is the opportunity to have multiple systems where before you could have only one. I have many Linux systems which allows me the opportunity to do many kinds of different things without tying up one single system. Linux scales easily this way where Windows clearly does not. It is nothing to fire up another Linux box or Linux VM because you don't have to worry about the license costs and limitations. With Linux you are free to move about without restrictions.

No, beloved. You can get MS Office 2003 for less than $50 retail, at Amazon. It's forever transferable, not bound to the hardware; can be installed on two machines at a time (but only one used at a time) limit, and you can download fileformatconverters.exe to read later MS Office versions.

Linux people make the mistake of an all-or-nothing approach. Don't do it that way.

Baby steps. External Linux so we don't have to learn Linux, just surf use Firefox/Chrome/Thunderbird as usual, keeping our Windows for all else.

Then later, when more comfortable, via Wine install MS Office and other programs. I have paid Crossover and maybe it works for many Windows programs, but I haven't tested it yet.

So don't go selling Linux the way the MS fanboys push now-bad, Windows. Appreciate the problem, go slow. Make it easy.

I think Linux is stuck in the 90,s still as so much incomparability still exist. windows 10 is great and well games all work and all my software works, I cant say the same about Linux but good try. Adobie software issues for starters and then using wine lol soz but I want my life to be easier not harder.

Munchy,

What does "incomparability" mean? What is that?

Did you mean to type "incompatibility"? If so, then incompatible with what? Windows programs? Can you be a bit more specific instead of generally blathering on?

If you are trying to run and/or use Windows only software, then Windows OS is the only game for you--I understand perfectly. All you know is all you know. You gotta have it because you just gotta have it. Your loss for sure--but please do stick with it if you think it is "easier".

Linux does anything you need it to in the way of computing. No limitations, no restrictions.

I stick with major vendors and almost never run into printer compatibility problems. All HP printer work great. I would never let a stupid printer keep me locked into a worthless OS. Well worth tossing that printer for sure. Go with HP or Epson, they all work great with CUPs in Linux. Linux does not drive printers, CUPs does. Linux desktop typically comes with CUPs and it is extremely capable subsystem containing drivers for thousands of printer new and old. You will not find anything more compatible with printers than Linux with a modern CUPs package.

Talkin about thinking outside the box have you tried windows 10 yet. Its pretty awesome, All my drivers come installed I can even download and install a game with no fuss(apart from bf4 lol). You might like it now cause windows 10 has a lot of great features. Cortana, soon to be integrated messaging, eay to use and familiar ui with updatable live tiles. We finally have the one Linux thing I always wanted, multiple desktops and a great split screen option. I defiantly think if you want to try something out of the box then windows 10 might be exactly what your looking for. Oh yeh you can sync your mobile phone with windows 10 and get notifications and stuff.
Personally with all the functionality and support I get from microsoft teams I'm very happy to pay that low cost for it. Unlike the extra money to train people to use a inferior product. That I think you'd agree makes no sense

when 10 downloaded on my PC without my permission, I didn't have internet all of a sudden... MS tech said they would have to charge me to figure it out....$99 minimum but, probably $299...WTF.....it was their upgrade that I didn't ask for...????.....I used my provider tech.....they helped me get MS 8.1 back and all was well....

We had problems with our anti-virus software and had to reinstall it, problems with our printer drivers and had to do a VERY involved reload. And that was just the first day...

ouch that's bad. I use a hp printer and avg and I had no issues but I feel for you.

Great points! But Windows is like the swiss army knife, if I want to run Adobe, I have only Macs to go to, and they are too slow for the price, especially 4k video

Jesus wept, three responses to a single post. You've really got the evangelistic mania, haven't you.

I'll only reply to one -- but I'm only replying at all because you're like a mosquito, buzzing around my ears.

> You need to think outside of the box

That is the first time in my entire life that anyone has ever said that, or anything similar to that, to me. You really should get an idea of whom you're talking to, before you make your "he disagrees with me, so he's an idiot who knows nothing about anything" judgement.

> Doing the things you suggest may actually save Williams company a $ton in the long run

Indeed, which is why I suggested that he doesn't do what you suggest.

> What is their annual licensing costs for Windows server and client systems and Office applications?

Short answer: TAX DEDUCTIBLE, YOU MORON! IT COSTS NOTHING!

I'm not even going to bother responding to your ridiculous comments about security. You keep going on about "working with linux un a corporate environment", but my guess is that you wouldn't know a corporate environment if it jumped up and bit you on the arse.

> With Linux there is the opportunity to have multiple systems where before you could have only one

[Stunned speechless at the crass stupidity of the suggestion, especially since it comes from such a "corporate-environment expert"]

"Short answer: TAX DEDUCTIBLE, YOU MORON! IT COSTS NOTHING!"
You are the fucking moron. Tax deductible means you don't pay tax on that particular portion of expense, while the rest of the expense is exactly that - an expense!

Say, your tax rate is 30%. You spend $1000 on software. You get a $300 tax rebate on your software. Where the fuck do you get the other $700 from?!?!?!?!

If you believe "tax deductible" makes something that you pay for cost nothing, then you you are clearly lacking in basic accounting skills. You'll need to read up on that to see exactly how it works. I won't bother to detail it for you. Perhaps contact an accountant and ask them to explain it to you.

If you believe that agreeing to the MS EULAs is a good idea, well that is your problem. It is also a problem for the business you work with. If you are unable to comprehend what is really going on here, thinking it is only about fancy software features and user control, you are wrong. Those EULAs are viral and work to severely limit choice throughout the business environment, they basically make you pay Microsoft for everything that touches those systems. In for a penny, in for a pound, with no choice. This is where you are--stuck in the 90s with EULAs and associated restrictions and limitations ad infinitum. That truth you spoke of earlier is written in the EULAs, they provides the truth in full detail--you really do need to read and comprehend them. You may need a team of lawyers to accomplish that.

Yes Linux does scale where Windows is not even remotely feasible. There is absolutely no comparison at all. This is why you see Linux used in large scale environments. IBM supercomputers, Google search, Financial exchange and stock trading systems world-wide. This is why you see it devices such as Chromebooks and Android. Linux is basically everywhere because, from a business and capabilities perspective, it delivers in aces where Windows clearly does not.

Another very good reason Linux is used so widely is because it is free to use as you wish and at any scale you wish--at no cost. You also have distribution rights and full support rights--if you so choose to employ them. You also have rights to contract support from any party willing to provide it. Billions of dollars of research and dev went into creating it and a cast of thousands continue to support and improve it.

So yea, you do need to think out of the box..I guess that makes it twice in your life now you were told that.
BTW please don't misquote me. I never called you or anyone else here an idiot--I don't roll like that. You quoted that yourself.

tl;dr

Take your ridiculous evangelistic nonsense elsewhere, Kiddo. No-one's listening to you.

I'm listening ;) Tax deductable. Lol. I'd better get on to HMRC they must owe me a ton of money by now! I think I will go on a year long holiday to somewhere tropical (I'm sure that's tax deductable too) :D

You'd do much better dealing with facts than resorting to ad hominem attacks and misquotes. Perhaps when you emerge from hibernation beneath the 90s rock you might see things differently. Until then, good luck with the one-size-fits-all approach to IT. But please don't bring that attitude to my business--it clearly will not work.

Y'know, when you get a little older (like, hit your twenties), you'll look back at your crass behaviour now, and feel so ashamed.

I'll bet you a paper clip I have been around and in the business of software and systems longer than you have--considerably longer. My first programming was done on the intel 8080 microcontrollers. I worked with the very first versions of Linux when it became available. I have used literally every version of Windows and PC/MS DOS since there very first inceptions. I also have worked with IBM OS/2.
..so yea, I have been around the block so to speak.
My opinions and what I have to say come from experience with these systems and the business around them--not just one system. This is why I am confident in what I present to others.

So tell us a bit about yourself.

soz I don't believe thast either, your very pro Linux which is fine but you should take your anti everything else and shove it where most of us care about. Get a life dude, plse

*yawn*

So you "did programming on 8080 microcontrollers", eh?

More likely you "did googling on the topic and didn't understand it, but used it in your reply, anyway".

I'm not discussing bugger all about me with you, because I have absolutely no interest in doing so. You can go to my web-site, like everyone else.

I can't visit yours though. Won't mummy pay the domain fees?

Log before the Internet at my *third* job out of college we used ASM80 and PLM80 on Intel 8-bit systems. We also used the 8085 in our products a bit later in the 80s and early 90s. compile, link, locate, yada yada. At that time were were using CICS on IBM mainframe to compile our code. Output to paper listings. We used 3270 terminals, which were shared between developers. Binary output was run to paper tape and we used Teletype terminals (paper output, no display) to debug our target systems. We had to use emulators installed on target systems to complete the debug phase.
My first PC ran CPM-80, I believe it ran on Zilog Z-80 microprocessor. It was a beast for sure.

Sorry, I would never invite your trolling bahavior to my website.

that explains it I apologise for my comments. anyone reaching the age you must be deserves my respect. Fortunately times are different today in the 21st century. I had a casio lv tone, does that count.

Yes, yes, you've already shown that you know how to use google to play buzzword bingo.

Let us remind ourselves what this discussion is about, shall we?

The topic: "Microsoft is downloading Windows 10 to your machine 'just in case'"

Your contributions to the topic have been tirades containing ridiculous claims about the linux UX, which everyone who has used different systems will immediately have recognised as BS. I myself would rather go back to using Unix or Xenix than linux, because they at least do not pretend to be user friendly, and because if the docs for Unix say that something works in a certain way, then that is how it works -- you don't have to spend half your time trawling through message boards looking for solutions.

The only reason I responded to you at all was because of your ridiculous suggestion that another contributor's company should, solely because MS does what it says in the topic, throw millions at changing to linux systems, ditching even their word-processors and office tools. A few meg of disk space is hardly worth losing the company over, because of poor customer relations caused by everyone spending all their time being retrained and/or screwing up because of the new tools and/or having to rebuild all their processes, scripts, macros, templates, etc. all over again.

But you continued with your ridiculous "linux is the best UX! linux is easy!" chant, which no-one believes, and no-one is interested in hearing.

Attempts to take over a topic with a personal agenda is indicator No. 1 of a troll.

You then start demanding proof of who other contributers are -- that is indicator No. 2 of a troll.

And you also start making claims to having a great depth of arcane knowledge -- that is indicator No. 3 of a troll.

And, finally, indicator No. 4, you start accusing other contributors of being trolls.

Just be very clear. I am Mark Wallace. It is Mark Wallace whom you are talking to. It is not someone pretending to be Mark Wallace -- I'll put a personal message at the top of my web-site, if you, as do all trolls, demand proof.

You are talking to someone with truly vast knowledge of computing, and someone who has /exploded/ more boxes than you have ever even tried to think outside of.

You may now no longer talk to me, with the exception of demanding the proof that I allowed earlier.

Poor soul, hopefully you will see some light at some point in the
future. Until then you will have to remain beneath the 90s rock you seem
to be stuck under--hopefully you can free yourself at some point.

You started the trolling and name calling with your very first response and then continued. You don't believe anything I post in sincerity, yet it has all been truthful. That is your problem. Facts remaining, I have nothing more to say to you as well--as your mind is shut like a steel trap.

omg tax deductible = free? Lol. I know I'm late, but just, wow.

It's not technology. It's people.

Something goes wrong. As it always will. The boss asks "what are you using?". "The latest Microsoft Exchange product, which is the most expensive one". Boss accepts they'll have to live with that.

If you say: "A Linux alternative, which is more efficient, easier to configure, less error-prone, can be readily troubleshooted, and is completely free", the boss will say "why aren't you using Microsoft?"

Nobody wants to be the guy having to answer that.

I can understand that business politics can get in the way of good choice. It happens all the time. This is why businesses fail and/or are unable to reach their potential. Bosses who do not understand software should not be asking those kinds of questions, but who are you to question them.
Does the boss ever ask how we can reduce our software license costs *and* improve operations? To which we answer how? "You can't do that?"

I doubt you have used Linux much. I use Linux in a corporate environment on a regular basis for desktop, laptop, and server and have found that it easily provides far more than what your typical computer user needs.

The Linux desktop distributions, such as Linux Mint, typically are provided with all the necessary apps on the initial install. Compared to Windows, Linux is far easier to setup, use, and maintain.

Yes, you carry on assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, and has no knowledge of anything.

The last place I worked at -- for seven years -- was a Linux shop. That's seven years configuring, using, and developing on a succession of linux boxes, hence the two boxes I keep at home.

And I abandoned the idea of using linux mint on my home boxes, because their network shares "Just Don't Work". Three different ways to configure mint to work with network drives, and none of them work worth a damn.

Saying that linux is easier to set up, use, and maintain is a complete joke, and you know it.

I don't assume anything concerning others. If someone know something, then they know it. I connect Mint to network shares all of the time with no issues. I also share folders on the network from my Mint systems with no issues at all, these things are very easy to accomplish. You can use simple point and click in nemo to get the job done in short order.

Not knowing about alternatives does not make somebody stupid. Sharing experiences allows others to understand.

This is what I know, and have experienced...
You can set up 10 Linux systems in the time it takes you to read the Windows EULA, let alone understand what it says. Windows takes literally many hours to setup, update, add applications, antivirus scanware, get it to actually do something useful. And then it will eventually rot away while you use it.

On the other hand you can install something like Linux Mint in about 15 minutes flat with all updates and applications needed for most any typical user. There is no comparison Linux is far easier and faster. In addition you can image the drive and use it directly in most any other system--don't try that with Windows.

Are you paid by Linux Mint as a spokesperson or something?

Ha funny and no I am not a spokesperson and I am not paid to use Mint. I do use it in a corporate environment all day long along with many other systems for various purposes. I also use it at home. Linux Mint is very easy to use and provides a highly productive desktop experience, this is the reason I use it.

It literally is one of the easiest Linux distributions to set-up and use. It is powerful Linux in a friendly usable form mainly for desktop use. I have access to all versions of Windows and OS X, also and use them occasionally. But for day to day needs I use Mint--because it does far more than the others and is far easier to use.

Keep talking, keep talking.

One day, you might find some poor, inexperienced person who will believe what you say.

I suggest, however, that you take a look at this page to see exactly how I feel about people who distort facts to suit their personal preferences: http://mwallace.nl/gos/arti...

Then try speaking the truth, rather than what you want to con people into believing is the truth.

You obviously have no experience with it. Because if you did you would most likely agree with me. I have many years of experience with various operating systems including various versions from Microsoft, Apple, and IBM. I still use OS X and Windows on a regular basis, when I absolutely have to, such as for programming on those platforms. For typical day to day use, I stick with Linux Mint because it is far superior to the others in many different ways.

Linux is by far the best choice because it is incredibly powerful, easy to use, secure, private, and reliable. I use various distributions of Linux for various reasons, but for desktop Linux my go-to choice has been Linux Mint for the past few years.

Linux Mint in a corporate environment???? Seriously are you that brain dead? Mints idea of support SUCKS. I wouldnt use Mint in a corporate environment even if I was PAID to use it in a corporate environment. We tried going to a Linux desktop. We tried twice, we used Ubuntu and we used Black Lab Linux. The average users had issue after issue with it so Linux on the server is a great product, whether you use Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, Black Lab, Oracle, Debian etc etc etc. For the user desktop your choices remain Windows, OS X.

I use it all day long in corporate environment. It works very well for me and others. I also use OS X and occasionally Windows. The Ubuntu Unity desktop, in my opinion, is not a very good experience and I can understand why your users had problems. You chose the wrong desktop for typical ex-Windows users. Go with Cinnamon as with Linux Mint.
And how do you think your user issues would multiply by moving to Windows 10 from say Windows 7?

What's your experience with OpenSuSE 13.2 KDE?
I've been using it since 2003 and love it.

Gnome desktop is also OK, but it takes a little wjile to really master it.

Bob,

..And exactly what do you mean by setup? Have you ever really had to "setup" Windows??

Lets see you go out and buy some hardware, put it together, and try to install Windows 10 on it. Have you tried that approach? and how long do you think it will take you even if you happen to be successful? How much time will it take you to hunt down drivers, assuming you can even find them. I'll bet you will spend at least a few days at it, and you still won't have the correct drivers for the hardware you have. Then also how long will it take to add the plethora of viralware and whatnot to it to make is even semi-useful? I know, been there and done it.

On the other hand it is quite likely that something like a Linux Mint will install on it in about 10 minutes flat fully configured and ready to go with all apps installed.