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Michael Pulley • 7 years ago

The statistics that support the themes of this article are quite alarming. Adults with a college degree make up between 30%-40% of the total population, but only around 13% of the prison population and 11% of the population on welfare or medicaid. Yet the U.S. government spends 16 times more money on prison and welfare than on education.

While there's no guarantee a college education leads to moral virtue and political open-mindedness, perhaps it doesn't need to. Perhaps a population educated enough to stay out of prison and off welfare is enough of a reason to promote more accessible education. Perhaps if education were valued more intrinsically-starting at home-then the extrinsic rewards would take care of themselves.

As a high school teacher, a disturbing trend I've noticed is a prevalent attitude among students that want to learn only "what they'll use in life." And, yes, that concept has merit; but what about studying Shakespeare just for the sake of enriching your appreciation of great art? What about studying philosophy just to understand how great thinkers shaped the world? What about knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

I believe it is this lack of desire for well-roundedness that has pointed our society on its current path. Consider all the steps backward we've taken in recent years. Have race relations been this strenuous since Rodney King? When is the last time we allowed our political candidates to be this belligerent and inept? When is the last time such a high percentage of the population ignored such overwhelming science (referencing climate change).

It reverts to a decrease in value placed on education in general; and a "liberal arts" (just another way to say well-rounded) education specifically. And frankly, I'm fearful of a future in which this trend remains unchanged.

Ian Murray • 7 years ago

Michael, I think you, and the author, are confusing cause and effect. The correlation between education and poverty and incarceration is a function of intelligence. People who attend and graduate from College are, in general, more intelligent than those who do not. Merely increasing the opportunities (and decreasing the cost) for people to attend College will not result in more College graduates and a more educated populace, because the less intelligent, who are over-represented in prison and on welfare, do not have the cognitive ability to work at a College level. This is not being arrogant or elitist, it is simply a fact. I would recommend The Bell Curve by Charles Murray.

Jennifer Stewart • 7 years ago

I disagree with this comment, which strikes me more as frighteningly ignorant than arrogant or elitist, but then perhaps ignorance is always at the core of both. The idea that the correlation between education and poverty is a function of intelligence is horrifyingly inadequate. I've met plenty of very poor, very intelligent people, and plenty of university graduates who don't strike me as particularly bright. And the issue of why people end up in prison is tremendously complex. To reduce it to the idea that it's because they're too stupid to do anything else with their lives borders on the absurd.

Michael Pulley • 7 years ago

Ian, you seem to be suggesting that there are no inmates or welfare participants with enough natural intelligence to receive the benefits of an education. While I certainly won't deny that not everyone in this country is intelligent enough to earn a college degree, I find it nearly impossible to believe that there aren't inmates or welfare recipients in this country that would have bee capable of earning a degree of some sort had the opportunity been available to them. By citing The Bell Curve, I assume that you agree with its argument that intelligence in a person remains constant throughout their lives. But ask yourself who would score higher on an IQ test: a sixth grader who had never been to school, or a sixth grader who attended even an average public school. My argument was not that everyone can-or should-go to college; but that as a country we don't dedicate enough value or resources into educating ourselves.

clay • 7 years ago

So, I suppose you just assume that those that have not been to college, live in poverty or incarcerated can not be intelligent individuals. Einstein -high school drop out, Henry Ford, guess what? High school drop out. It seems like everyday I come across at least one individual that assume that one with no money has no brains. It has been my experience with people that make these sort of comments are less than satisfied with some sector about yourself. The Lord has made each and every one of his children different and unique. What we make lack in one area we make up for in another. We are supposed to build our brothers and sisters up not tear them down. If you truly feel the way you do. Then why not take you gift of knowledge and share it with another perhaps volunteer at the local jail or prison. How about just taking a moment to do a little self-reflecting. I am not trying to insist you live in poverty, incarcerated uneducated but do you really know what cognitive ability actually consist of. COGNITIVE ABILITIES ARE NOT FIXED. inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling ourselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep us feeling bad about ourselves. Personalization is a cognitive distortion where a person compares themselves to others trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc. So Ian I would say your lacking a bit of cognition yourself. But you went to college so you knew that already RIGHT? Look take that big brain of your and think before you start insulting others. Share the blessing you have been blessed with because trust me GOD gave them to you he can take them away. (might even give-um to the poor kid)

jloewen • 7 years ago

Stereotypes about Trump voters make it too easy to belittle
undereducated voters in the US. Consider: thruout the Vietnam War,
adults with HS education were much more likely to
oppose the war than adults with college degrees. Yet the war made little sense, morally or
politically, then or now. Education does not
equal wisdom, especially in politics.

BobbyV • 7 years ago

"Liberal education is the counter poison to mass culture, to the corroding effects of mass culture, to its inherent tendency to produce nothing but 'specialists without spirit or vision and voluptuaries without heart. Liberal education reminds those members of a mass democracy who have ears to hear, of human greatness."
Leo Strauss

Neal Henderson • 7 years ago

Hello ICorps,

If anything, rightists are opinionated, unable to comprehend any statement longer than a few words or that has words with more than one syllable .... because rightists are motivated by myth or ideology .... rather than being motivated by evidence.

Perhaps you are correct and the article should be viewed as a veiled attack on a Presidential Candidate ("enable more voters to detect demagogues seeking power through bluster and bombast and pandering to the self-interest of members of the electorate") ... and readers should follow the dictum, 'For truly it is written: If the Foo shits, wear it.' [anon]

Jeff Weitz • 7 years ago

Taylor's distinction between a political good and an economic good is an important one, even in partisan times. If only we could arrive at a consensus of how to educate children to be productive and informed citizens while at the same time not seeking, as Rousseau put might put it today, "the adult in the children without thinking of what they are before becoming adults."

Brian Sanderson • 7 years ago

It would be more profitable to consider the functional relationships between education for the "public good" and education for the "economic good". Ecology provides the essential insights. (I'd say human ecology, except that discipline has smothered itself with political correctness.) In the time of Jefferson, America was empty. Now it is full --- and becoming more like Britain was in Jefferson's time.

Charles B. Davis • 1 year ago

The comments that decry a lack of evidence make some pretty outrageous statements for which there is evidence aplenty to the contrary. Prove me wrong.

ca best essays review • 6 years ago

Such kind of technology is more essential for us and i know there are more people are enjoy the education so more.They want more security in voting. They like to clear technology in here.

MAALAN • 7 years ago

A decent theme, but unfortunately it gets lost in rhetoric ... and fails to make its case for lack of any solid factual foundation. I might support some kind of link between civic knowledge & civic participation, including voting - one needs to demonstrate adequate civic knowledge to participate - but such knowledge requirements have been thrown out - except for naturalization!

For all the talk about improving our civic discourse & thought, I
feel like Diogenes - continuing to look for evidence that college
schooling actually contributes to any such improvement. As many studies
suggest, current college schooling may actually decrease civic
understanding - in the main, college 'grads' actually seem to know less
& less about more & more, with general civic knowledge actually
decreasing with more time in college (perhaps making room for other
topics ... ).

Without any decent evidentiary support, this article makes a great leap by promoting the civic values of -liberal arts college- schooling, bootstrapping from some historical threads of thought about modest primary schooling, and giving it a modern twist with a plea to expand that extended college schooling to all. As the quotes from Jefferson underscore, there was also a strong thread of sorting by merit which has dropped by the wayside. Jefferson himself retained a vision of a largely agrarian society, with a meritocratic elite governing from the top, not the expansive version profferred here.

And as the end of the article notes, we no longer share a WASPish vision of (relatively) common values - so trying to propagate those values is nigh impossible - and I doubt a propaganda set shared by the author.

Many reasons for a shift in articulating value for colleges. Of course, colleges were then for the very very few - the '1%' - so no need to trumpet its economic value. They were in the main schools for training clergy, military officers, or polishing ('finishing') the young of the elite. The best the common man might expect was a bit of readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmetic - and lucky to get that thru 8 grades.

Failing proof of civic value, many now resort to economic terms in promoting the schooling industry. Some may be attributed to the larger numbers of students, who, along with their parents, are more attracted to those materialistic arguments than any notion of a 'liberal' education - 'its about the economy ... ' And who is to say that those values - those of the 'common' people - are not the values that are most important, at least to them.

polfilmblog • 7 years ago

Intelligence and morality are completely irrelevant to one another. The Nazis were brilliant. You need to spend as much ink on right v. wrong as you do on higher ed, because this land has devolved into the sole remaining "evil empire."

Sidney Rock Dove • 7 years ago

"Republican virtue" is not the same thing as morality; it's the skills, values, and behaviors necessary for successful republican government. Some, not all, of it can be taught. There is a moral component to it, and that could be emphasized more I agree.

Don Reid • 7 years ago

If you subscribe to the idea of an ‘informed electorate’,
you must first define what that means. Will reading the newspaper (web) do?
What about finishing the 8th grade; high school? Informed electorate
means considering the effects of your actions on the rights of those around
you. It is similar to the “Golden Rule”, but broader in scope. An informed
majority does not believe one should live off of the efforts of the minority.
The majority has the same responsibility as the government: protect the rights
of all the people.

In the US, the majority or plurality sees their voting power
as a way to take advantage of wealthier people. We pass graduated income tax
laws as morally sound when taking an increasing share of someone’s earnings has
no element of morality. It is just greed and power. However, it is not as much
greed and power as a government that will borrow money endlessly (deficit
spending) to remain in power. Government knows the ‘informed’ majority can’t
figure out that today’s deficit spending is paid for with tomorrow’s taxes –
again, mainly on the ‘rich’. Actually, they do know; they just don’t care. How’s
that for protecting rights?

ratherdrive • 7 years ago

In its fundamental terms, an enterprise is the combination of labor with capital. Greed is the immoral construct that either one is more valuable than the other. An enterprise is effectively impossible without both participants. If the division of proceeds was fair, there would be no need for a graduated tax.

Scott Comin • 7 years ago

Thank you. Amen!!!

Guest • 7 years ago
ratherdrive • 7 years ago

Well THAT certainly made no sense! You apparently missed my point altogether.

"Capital" is the same thing as "wage?" Niavete so astounding as to be almost breathtaking. And then you dispense with any pretense of being at least civil. Well, if you insist..

And you hold that greed is a "moral" construct? That old "greed is good" horseshit from Gorden Gekko? Your personal heroine is Ayn Rand, the priestess of Greed, correct? Helps you sleep at night, does it?

No need to demand what you're worth Kiri; I've already given you more than you are worth, regretfully.
Ciao.

Guest • 7 years ago
rustacus21 • 7 years ago

... this subject encompasses so many differing factors that we often, as in THIS case, forget the realities of history that are involved. Throwing around descriptives such as 'leftist,' or 'conservatives,' or 'rightist,' 'unionist,' forgetting that this nation began on a quite LIBERAL footing & each time we advance, we do so in a PROGRESSIVE manner. So the war of 'terminologists' leaves us empty & longing - STILL - for greater clarification. We, in this current time, are the products of ALL the racist, sexist, cultural & economic bigotry continuing to produce AMERICANS like Donald Trump. This we cannot deny. The founders, for all of their flaws (even recognizing such w/the admission of THIS being an '... imperfect union...'), left a framework of which we SHOULD HAVE by now, sorted thru to avoid the very subtext of this article, which tells us that sophistication doesn't necessarily imply being educated, but that being aware, paying attention & remaining open-minded enuff (sorry for my spelling short-cuts - considering space restraints) to LEND hand-ups to those amongst us in distress. Public education was such a 'hand-up,' as were the Bill of Rights (Constitutional Amendments), the movements to liberate those marginalized Americans too weak - individually - to advocate for themselves, etc. The election next week will tell if we, as a nation, really do understand what the author is TRULY saying here in this article & if he is actually on target w/his thesis...

ratherdrive • 7 years ago

"The ability to secede was an accepted fact" only to that portion of the population which could not read, or did not understand the meaning of the word "Perpetual" so prominently displayed on our Founding document.