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pplr1 • 6 years ago

I'm glad to see they are interested in working for basic democracy. That is what is at stake in some states with the gerrymandering case in front of SCOTUS right now relating to Wisconsin.

I'll point out there are referendums against gerrymandering that have passed so it isn't hard to see where the people are on rigged elections.

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

" Working for basic democracy" ? Like Hillary did for Bernie Sanders ? BASIC DEMOCRACY just might mean popular democracy minus the plutocracy. The Democrats will break with capitalism, the military industrial complex, Deep State, and the ruling class ?

pplr1 • 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure basic democracy doesn't include rigged elections (which is what many state legislatures have right now).

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

Do you have ANY ideas here ?

pplr1 • 6 years ago

Ending rigged elections seems like a VERY good idea to me.

How about you?

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

In capitalist USA the essence of rigged elections is ruling class control of BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties . To think that " gerrymandering " can make any big difference to WORKING CLASS interests is naive. Changing voting district boundaries is usually based on " identity politics " nonsense. " Liberal " Democrats still think they own the black vote.And pro-Hillary Zionists still think they own the Democratic Party. But even Alan Dershowitz has his doubts .Better to play both sides of the fence !

pplr1 • 6 years ago

Nonsense.

It took a GOP legislature as well as Governor to put through Act 10 and Less Rights at Work legislation in Wisconsin.

Similar for Iowa and Missouri.

If unions are getting undermined and banned that is a huge difference for "WORKING CLASS interests". Not to notice that is ignorant.

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

Working class socialists make no unprincipled alliances with class enemies. Wiki Leaks exposed Hillary Clinton as a dear friend of Wall St. - not working class Americans.
We believe in MASS ACTION independent of treacherous " liberal " or " progressive " Democrats.
Read any honest history of the labor movement written by a distinguished socialist author.Read any of the speeches of Eugene V. Debs . Begin with his famous " Canton Speech ".
Do friends of working people want to get us into a war with nuclear power Russia ? Do friends of working people support imperialist wars in the Middle East ? Do friends of working people slobber over the FBI - involved in the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X ?
Do friends of working people routinely socialize with ruling class snobs ? Accept their money ?
Do friends of working people routinely betray working people ?

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

This anti-Trump resistance would be wise to avoid the dead end to which " progressive " Democrats are leading it( " save the middle class " Elizabeth Warren or phony " socialist " Bernie Sanders ).
Sanders should call those 23 million Americans who could lose Obamacare into the streets just to OPPOSE all attacks on working class people, to oppose all cut backs and all preparation for foolish- and endless- and imperialist - wars in the Middle East. And oppose this irrational hostility to nuclear powers Russia and China.
But don't expect any real " political revolution " with a base in the DNC.

Guest • 6 years ago
Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

Does NPR receive public funding ? How are they authorized to show open contempt for a LEGITIMATE president, PRESIDENT Donald Trump ? ( I voted for socialists ).

pplr1 • 6 years ago

Good to see you are the local Trumper Ron.

As it is the Electoral College gave him the White House. Not the popular vote (which defines a popular mandate).

I could go real conspiracy theory here and point out that one of the states that gave him the White House (Pennsylvania) has one of the more hackable voting machine systems in the US but I'll assume the propaganda and echo chamber the GOP has been building for the last few decades gave him the base he needed to win those states he did. That and an opponent whose campaign wasn't as good as it should have been.

BTW if you don't want to be seen as a Trumper then please list through the ways you, as a socialist, oppose him (a billionaire that is working to favor the master class)?

Ron Ruggieri • 6 years ago

I thought the Electoral College was a mockery of " democracy " a long time ago. But President Trump is still the legitimate president by YOUR own Constitution. I think a mass movement has a natural right to change any " sacred " secular document Those working class voters in the Rust Belt states correctly perceived Hillary Clinton to be no " friend of labor ". They voted for President Donald Trump out of anger and despair.
We working class socialists can only denounce this HATE TRUMP, HATE PUTIN campaign - while commending neither.

pplr1 • 6 years ago

I can understand looking at Clinton as "no friend of labor". Only thing is I worry Trump will be worse and it'll turn out he simply was lying when he made promises to help working people (wouldn't be the first time someone has done that).

Putin is a member of the master class in his own country. Just because he made his billions through corruption doesn't mean he isn't part of the oligarchy there.

Guest • 6 years ago
pplr1 • 6 years ago

Interesting, do you have a link?

Guest • 6 years ago
pplr1 • 6 years ago

Technically I'm don't think it can be called "suppression" when the point is to undermine morale or motivation (the motivation for voters to vote).

Suppression is a term I reserve for things that also happen like closing poll locations that are easy for voters to reach, having thugs at polling locations to scare people off, improperly removing people from the voting rolls so voters cannot vote (this is arguably how W "won" Florida back in 2000), and the your photo ID isn't good enough bills passed in some states (for example Texas doesn't let college students-which could easily be marked to show US Citizenship-use their college photo ID to register to vote).

To me suppression stops someone who is trying to vote from voting. Demoralizing prevents people from wanting to.

That all said (and I mean all), thank you for the article and I think it says a lot that the point of a lot of Trump and the GOP's campaign was to make people feel so unhappy they don't vote.

This lets the GOP win because they figure their echo chamber followers will show up and vote when others don't.

And even then it wasn't enough to win the popular vote.

Guest • 6 years ago
pplr1 • 6 years ago

Fair enough. Though I'll add that limiting voting hours also fits the definition of voter suppression that I was using because that can result in someone who is trying to vote not being able to.