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wunsacon • 3 years ago

I find it interesting to read the Murdoch-wing interpretation of these documents. They downplay the "cui bono?" questions, in favor of narratives like "Obama underestimated ISIS" or "Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi" or "ISIS in Texas".

Will CNN follow Fox's lead? For a while, it seemed to me like CNN broadcast "ISIS, ISIS, ISIS" scare-mongering. How much daylight is there between CNN and Fox?

I wonder whether aggregation of media assets has led to editorial conformity and narrative consistency.

retired trucker • 3 years ago

one can only depend on the news to further the agenda of the globalists.....it's really a waste of time trying to figure things out. just listen to your gut and avoid the news like aids,herpes and vd.

david t. krall • 3 years ago

good point...but sheep, ostriches and similar animals don't last very long....I would hate to be an ostrich, with any social diseases lurking about, in that position ! Things are bad enough ! I prefer to take my chances with my head (and butt !) on or above the surface and still be able to know, figure out and able to decipher and decode the truth from the BS...at least the truth and lies could be seen and determined as understood and aware of.....Insightful and astute on your part !, but ...Besides, that's how we have been catching those diseases in the first place (!), which have effected, affected and infected both our brains and our nation..Think about it ! The very people who claim to be protecting us from Terror and War, and in effect pronouncing their faith and pleas (for more surveillance) to protect us, etc, are the very same ones exasperating and starting this insanity and literally laying down and in bed with, if not creating these monsters (and it would NOT-N-O-T- be the first time !!!)...I'm not bending over for anybody!!! Especially with my head in the sand...'cause that's just the way they want it ! Screwing us with lies, and insane and inane deceitful "explanations" for at least the last, almost, 53 years...what nation, what world power in the history of modern or even recorded history in a similar or appx 50+ year span has been the recipient of such repetitive supposedly random, -"unexpected"- "terror", fear, assassination (JFK) and/or lame-ducks/"cripplings" and more murders (MX, MLK, RFK, LBJ, RMN. JEC, Reagan {"almost"}, many others) , "spontaneous" provocations and wars, invasions, massive foreign bombings, and "police actions", and "out of the blue" and supposedly "unexpected" threats to its existence...??? and now CUBA and IRAN...if you thought it looked ugly in Jan. or Feb...just wait...these war-freaks and short-sighted chicken hawks can't wait to wreck or stop these major generational peace initiatives,aka "game-changers" regardless who's in the WH or his Sec. of State..It just happens to be Obama now...Huh ! ...a broken femur??? Maybe that was just a "preview"...They turned on IKE late in his term & tenure and things are now sure looking similar.....the next WH occupant...now that's who will have a "full plate" to deal with...

Gilda Morkert • 3 years ago

I find it interesting too. Nowhere in these so-called documents does it say the USA supports ISIS.

Stockinator_9mm • 3 years ago

18 months of trying to bomb ISIS but our smart bombs only hit Syrian military targets, syrian power grids, food grains, water treatment facilities.... we watched them roll from lybia to bagdad in a convoy... we did nothing. Why do you need to see documents?

cityspeak • 3 years ago

It is also well documented that Israel fed Hamas in its infancy.
Strange how these two "enlightened exceptional democracies" nurture monsters and use them for their own nefarious purposes.
I suppose all those victims of beheadings and car bombings are just more collateral damage in the ultimate chess game.

America, all the wrong people are in prison.

Abel Ashes • 3 years ago

Israel funded Hamas charities before Hamas conducted any terrorist attacks. Israel has lived to regret that decision. Trusting religious groups is always a bad idea. If it were possible to ban all of the observant Jews and Islamist Muslims from politics in the so-called "Holy Land" there would peace and equality in Israel/Palestine.

Human • 3 years ago

Israel considers anyone fighting against their occupation a terrorist. Before Hamas even existed, the PLO and Arafat were also considered "terrorists", weren't they? It's not about religion, even if all Palestinians were atheist, Israel would continue to terrorize them.

DeltaV • 3 years ago

The documents say that the elements which would coalesce into ISIS were a "grave danger in regards to unifying Iraq and the protection of its territory." This is a fairly accurate warning about a potential ISIS.

Apparently the basis of this article (and its title) that the US understood the very real potential for ISIS formation but persisted in supporting certain of those elements. However, the portion about the powers supporting the future-ISIS elements is listed in that actual declassified document as an assumption.

My recollection is that there was a call for support, and President Obama placed an unconditional "Red Line" that would result in US action that would be supportive of anti-regime efforts, but that President Obama failed to back that threat once the line was crossed. So, did the West actually support the anti-regime forces, and in particular the elements that became ISIS? It would be interesting to know, but that information is not contained in this article.

david t. krall • 3 years ago

Keep in mind how IKE was duped and deceived about the growing threat in Cuba, against Castro and how that grew and grew, regarding growing and escalating.covert operations against Cuba at that particular time...He initially ONLY authorized a small insurgent group (or groups) of only about 30 to 35 (I believe he later mentioned a specific number, 33) and how that grew and grew like "a runaway train" aka "bureaucratic momentum" vs what was perceived and believed to be authorized by the President (IKE) and his closest advisors at the time...His successor (JFK) , who was neither expected to win his party's nomination nor the election (!) was conveniently (by those designing and planning the plan, program and operations) and basically handed, more like "shoved in his face", a "carte-blanche" operation that was "sold" as fool--proof,(bay of pigs) all the while known and realized as intentionally flawed, ONLY to be used, all-along (!) as a "fuse" or "trip-wire", to send/directly in heavy amounts of US armed personnel and US fire-power...the initial assumption was that either Nixon or LBJ would have been elected in 1960 and initiated/ "green lighted" this "plan" to invade Cuba sometime after the election and around/near or before an inauguration of a new US president, presumably Nixon or LBJ by Jan of 1961...But somebody else upset the plan by winning the election !!! He, JFK, said "NO, no US military forces would be used against Cuba" and even went on TV and said so, and in spite this, and him (JFK) -NOT- falling for that ruse, these same elements continued to gather robust amounts of even more "bureaucratic momentum" to further the "war" against Castro and their pre-ISIS-like covert program of a massive and very clever and secret recruitment. funding , training and support operations. e.g. Operations Mongoose, JM/Wave and some ONI Task Forces, among others and later, also Operation Condor. These recruitment/ funding /training and support operations for nearby exiled and/or or indigenous networks, "local groups" that were anything but "freedom fighters"...very far from it...all this sound familiar??? These "freedom fighters" carried out and attempted to carry out large amounts of what would be called TERROR,and considered as such THEN and today...All across Latin America, and here in places like Miami and New York City and of course in Dallas on 11/22/63...and in Washington DC in 1976 (Orlando Letelier Assassination-9/21/76) or the shooting down of a civilian airliner with teenage and young adult olympic level athletes from Cuba, by hardened and trained fanatical anti-Castro cadres on 10/6/76... just a few examples of "ultimate forms of inward blowback" (!!!) from these secret wars and programs involving vast hidden levels of duplicity and unaccountability....sound familiar? getting warm?...Cuba then...Syria now...just a different time and place, but within the same paradigm of covert warfare, using the "worst of the worst" in playing chess with the fate of nations...including our own.....I'm really not sure who is really more evil? Those doing the recruiting/supplying/training/arming/sponsoring or the one's being recruited??? Most definitely an even match...one's as bad as the other.....

stevor • 3 years ago

as to the ones "recruiting/supplying/training/arming/sponsoring", it seems to be the CIA/Mossad from what I've read.

Southern • 3 years ago

Thanks for clarifying this - The roots of ISIS can be found in this article Creating an “Arc of Crisis”: The Destabilization of the Middle East and Central Asia

Bill Rood • 3 years ago

Yes. Originally, creation of the "Arc of Crisis" was proposed by Bernard Lewis as a means to divide and rule, which has always been the British Empire's mody operandi, and Zbigniew Brzezinski wanted to create an "Arc of Crisis" all along the southern border of the USSR and later, Russia.

Except for Afghanistan, the "Arc of Crisis" hasn't been all that successful as far as creating instability to Russia's south, and it hasn't been all that successful in promoting Anglo-American hegemony either. However, it has been wildly successful in perpetuating the "arc of instability" that justifies US military spending, so the MIC is quite well satisfied with the policies whether the broader interests and security of the British and American people are served well by the policy or not.

Southern • 3 years ago

There are many different aspects to this, like from the moment that large numbers of prisoners on death row in S.A. were given the ultimatum for joining the FSA or decline and face certain execution.

Too often regions are deliberately being exploited by greedy individuals and mixed into politics.

Interesting to note that Daesh only ever appear to be attacking the traditional enemies of the Zionist.

Daesh are like another Gladio, but on steroids.

Check this out - letter from Raqqa

jadan • 3 years ago

Pan Arabism has always been the chief threat to western hegemony since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the emergence of Israel. Nasser. Saddam Hussein, who dreamed of himself as Saladin. The US has used divide and conquer in the ME to thwart any Arab unification, which is Israel's chief existential threat. The US supported the jihadis in Afghanistan to force the Soviets out and it introduced chaos in Iraq. But Iraq was a major blunder. Bush was an idiot then and now. Pan Arabism is now emerging as ISIS. The west is hoist on its own petard.

didactic1 • 3 years ago

ISIS is anti Enlightenment. The Pan Arab movement is dead.

Dawg_em • 3 years ago

Notice the divide and conquer strategy domestic style. Race relations and the destruction of the family is par for the course.

Aldous Huxley • 3 years ago

This document and its import have been confirmed by the former DIA: Michael T Flynn (DIA) admits arming ISIS:

http://www.aljazeera.com/pr...

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

http://www.liveleak.com/vie...

Tom Welsh • 3 years ago

So those geniuses created Islamic State, potentially a new sultanate that could engulf the whole Near East, just to limit Iran's ambitions? That is the dumbest piece of "strategy" since IBM virtually created Microsoft (previously a tiny insignificant company) as part of its defence against the appalling threat from... Apple!

Both are examples of that all-too-frequent blunder: a cure for which there was no disease.

MOLON LABE • 3 years ago

Sep 3, 2014 Retired Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney admits “We Helped Build ISIS”

https://youtu.be/Z_zf7GPQqxU

Aldous Huxley • 3 years ago
MOLON LABE • 3 years ago

Aug 5, 2015 British Special Forces "Dressing Up" As ISIS...What Could Go Wrong?

The "elite" British SAS special forces are dispatching over 120 troops to Syria to dress up as ISIS fighters and attack Syrian targets. In today's Thought For The Day, James looks back at a couple of the lowlights of the bumbling SAS forces and examines the 2005 incident where the SAS was caught in Basra dressing up as Arabs and shooting Iraqis in order to fuel ethnic tensions in the country.

https://youtu.be/rRH3SJHSuc4

david t. krall • 3 years ago

Great Stuff !!! Man oh man.!!! ..These guys are in and part the same exact toxic chain and strain ( A very sick war-like virus !) as those who drew up the Northwoods Documents/Plans, The Gulf of Tonkin, and many others...
Just like Operation Canned Goods, the ingenious Nazi German plan/program to convince non-stop the German People that Poland was going to attack and invade Germany...and created a deceitful, cleaver operation involving numerous Nazi German Intelligence officers and agents, some dressed as Polish soldiers, and also some Polish speaking felons in German prisons/jails (expendable) and also eventual kidnapped actual genuine Polish soldiers who would also be used near the German/Polish Border (equally expendable)...this was the "trip-wire" and "fuse"... a covert operation which was then fed and "explained" to the German people in every media outlet and source as an attempted and beginning phase of an POLISH invasion of and upon GERMANY....That ISIS "flag", since the first time I ever saw it reminded me of the Nazi/Brown-Shirt/SA/SD/SS militia "flag" being paraded in Germany during the early days of the Nazi Presence in Germany before and after The Nazi's solidified their power in 1932 or 1933....same thing...when ever CNN shows that "moniker" and image of some ISIS "soldier" walking across the TV screen with that flag on his shoulder..it seems so much like a Nazi-brown Shirt thug and a similar Nazi type flag, so much so I have to wonder what TV or Movie Studio The CIA or The Pentagon rented to create this "AD" as if out of Madison Ave and marketed like some cheap WW2 movie now updated for use in the Middle East....

Conrad Wilcox • 3 years ago

where can i find the full document

Abel Ashes • 3 years ago

Judicial Watch got the document released and the document is not what many are pretending it is or pretending it says. Here is the link the the original posting of the document. This is the same source everyone else is using in reference to this document: http://www.judicialwatch.or...

Abel Ashes • 3 years ago

It's posted three posts above yours, but here it is again:

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE – CLASSIFICATION: SECRET.
INFORMATION REPORT, NOT FINALLY EVALUATED INTELLIGENCE.
COUNTRY: (U) IRAQ (IRQ). DOI: (U) 20120730. {12 August 2012}

1. {REDACTED}

2. {REDACTED}

THE GENERAL SITUATION:

A. INTERNALLY, EVENTS ARE TAKING A CLEAR SECTARIAN DIRECTION.

B. THE SALAFIST,- THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, AND AQI ARE THE MAJOR FORCES DRIVING THE INSURGENCY IN SYRIA.

C. THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY SUPPORT THE OPPOSITION; WHILE RUSSIA. CHINA, AND IRAN SUPPORT THE REGIME.

D. {REDACTED}

E. THE REGIME’S PRIORITY IS TO CONCENTRATE ITS PRESENCE IN AREAS ALONG THE COAST (TARTUS, AND LATAKJA); HOWEVER, IT HAS NOT ABANDONED HOMS BECAUSE IT CONTROLS THE MAJOR TRANSPORTATION ROUTES IN SYRIA. THE REGIME DECREASED ITS CONCENTRATION IN AREAS ADJACENT TO THE IRAQI BORDERS (AL HASAK.A AND DER ZOR).

3. AL QAEDA – IRAQ (AQI):

A. AQI IS FAMILIAR WITH SYRIA. AQI TRAINED IN SYRIA AND THEN INFILTRATED INTO IRAQ.

B. AQI SUPPORTED THE SYRIAN OPPOSITION FROM THE BEGINNING, BOTH IDEOLOGICALLY AND THROUGH THE MEDIA. AQI DECLARED ITS OPPOSITION OF ASSAD’S GOVERNMENT BECAUSE IT CONSIDERED IT A SECTARIAN REGIME TARGETING SUNNIS.

C. AQI CONDUCTED A NUMBER OF OPERATIONS IN SEVERAL SYRIAN CITIES UNDER THE NAME OF JAISH AL NUSRA (VICTORIOUS ARMY), ONE OF ITS AFFILIATES.

D. AQI, THROUGH THE SPOKESMAN OF THE ISLAMIC STA TE OF IRAQ (ISi), ABU MUHAMMAD AL ADNANI, DECLARED THE SYRIAN REGIME AS THE SPEARHEAD OF WHAT HE IS NAMING JIBHA AL RUWAFDH (FOREFRONT OF THE SHIITES) BECAUSE OF ITS {THE SYRIAN REGIME) DECLARATION OF WAR ON THE SUNNIS.

ADDITIONALLY. HE IS CALLING ON THE SUNNIS IN IRAQ, ESPECIALLY THE TRIBES IN THE BORDER REGIONS (BETWEEN IRAQ AND SYRIA), TO WAGE WAR AGAINST THE SYRIAN REGIME, REGARDING SYRIA AS AN INFIDEL REGIME FOR ITS SUPPORT TO THE INFIDEL PARTY HEZBOLLAH, AND OTHER REGIMES HE CONSIDERS DISSENTERS LIKE IRAN AND IRAQ.

E. AQI CONSIDERS THE SUNNI ISSUE IN IRAQ TO BE FATEFULLY CONNECTED TO THE SUNNI ARABS AND MUSLIMS.

4. THE BORDERS:

A. THE BORDERS BETWEEN SYRIA AND IRAQ STRETCH APPROXIMATELY 600KM WITH COMPLEX TERRAIN CONSISTING OF A VAST DESERT, MOUNTAIN RANGES (SINJAR MOUNTAINS). JOINT RIVERS (FLOWING ON BOTH SIDES), AND AGRICULTURAL LANDS.

B. IRAQ DIRECTLY NEIGHBORS THE SYRIAN PROVINCES OF HASAK.A AND DER ZOR, AS WELL AS (SYRIAN) CITIES ADJACENT TO THE IRAQI BORDER.

C. THE LAND ON BOTH SIDES BETWEEN IRAQ AND SYRIA IS A VAST DESERT PUNCTUATED BY VALLEYS, AND IT LACKS TRANSPORTATION ROUTES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE INTERNATIONAL HIGHWAY AND SOME MAJOR CITIES.

5. THE POPULATION LIVING ON THE BORDER:

A. THE POPULATION LIVING ON THE BORDER HAS A SOCIAL-TRIBAL STYLE, WHICH IS BOUND BY STRONG TRIBAL AND FAMILIAL MARITAL TIES.

B. THEIR SECTARIAN AFFILIATION UNITES THE TWO SIDES WHEN EVENTS HAPPEN IN THE REGION.

C. AQI HAD MAJOR POCKETS AND BASES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER TO FACILITATE THE FLOW OF MATERIAL AND RECRUITS.

D. THERE WAS A REGRESSION OF AQI JN THE WESTERN PROVINCES OF IRAQ DURING TI-IE YEARS OF 2009 AND 2010; HOWEVER, AFTER THE RISE OF THE INSURGENCY IN SYRIA, THE RELIGIOUS AND TRIBAL POWERS IN THE REGIONS BEGAN TO SYMPATHIZE WITH THE SECTARIAN UPRISING. THIS (SYMPATHY) APPEARED IN FRIDAY PRAYER SERMONS, WHICH CALLED FOR VOLUNTEERS TO SUPPORT THE SUNNI’S IN SYRIA.

6. THE SITUATION ON THE IRAQI AND SYRIAN BORDER:

A. THREE BORDER BDES ARE SUFFICIENT TO CONTROL THE BORDERS DURING PEACE TIME FOR OBSERVATION DUTIES AND TO PREVENT SMUGGLING AND INFILTRATION.

B. {REDACTED}

C. IN PREVIOUS YEARS A MAJORITY OF AQI FIGHTERS ENTERED IRAQ PRIMARILY VIA THE SYRIAN BORDER.

7. THE FUTURE ASSUMPTIONS OF THE CRISIS:

A. THE REGIME WILL SURVIVE AND HA VE CONTROL OVER SYRIAN TERRITORY.

B. DEVELOPMENT OF THE CURRENT EVENTS INTO PROXY WAR: WITH SUPPORT FROM RUSSIA, CHINA, AND IRAN, THE REGIME IS CONTROLLING THE AREAS OF INFLUENCE ALONG COASTAL TERRITORIES (TARTUS AND LATAKIA), AND IS FIERCELY DEFENDING HOMS, WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE PRIMARY TRANSPORTATION ROUTE IN SYRIA. ON THE OTHER HAND, OPPOSITION FORCES ARE TRYING TO CONTROL THE EASTERN AREAS (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), ADJACENT TO THE WESTERN IRAQI PROVINCES (MOSUL AND ANBAR), IN ADDITION TO NEIGHBORING TURKISH BORDERS. WESTERN COUNTRIES, THE GULF STATES AND TURKEY ARE SUPPORTING THESE EFFORTS. THIS HYPOTHESIS IS MOST LIKELY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DATA FROM RECENT EVENTS, WHICH WILL HELP PREPARE SAFE HAVENS UNDER INTERNATIONAL SHELTERING, SIMILAR TO WHAT TRANSPIRED IN LIBYA WHEN BENGHAZI WAS CHOSEN AS THE COMMAND CENTER OF THE TEMPORARY GOVERNMENT.

8. THE EFFECTS ON IRAQ:

A. {REDACTED} SYRIAN REGIME BORDER FORCES RETREATED FROM THE BORDER AND THE OPPOSITION FORCES (SYRIAN FREE ARMY) TOOK OVER THE POSTS AND RAISED THEIR FLAG. THE IRAQI BORDER GUARD FORCES ARE FACING A BORDER WITH SYRIA THAT IS NOT GUARDED BY OFFICIAL ELEMENTS WHICH PRESENTS A DANGEROUS AND SERIOUS THREAT.

B. THE OPPOSITION FORCES WILL TRY TO USE THE IRAQI TERRITORY AS A SAFE HAVEN FOR ITS FORCES TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYMPATHY OF THE IRAQI BORDER POPULATION, MEANWHILE TRYING TO RECRUIT FIGHTERS AND TRAIN THEM ON THE IRAQI SIDE, IN ADDITION TO HARBORING REFUGEES (SYRIA).

C. IF THE SITUATION UNRAVELS THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITON WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME, WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE STRATEGIC DEPTH OF THE SHJA EXPANSION (IRAQ AND IRAN).

D. THE DETERIORATION OF THE SITUATION HAS DIRE CONSEQUENCES ON THE IRAQI SITUATION AND ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. THIS CREATES THE IDEAL ATMOSPHERE FOR AQI TO RETURN TO ITS OLD POCKETS IN MOSUL AND RAMADI, AND WILL PROVIDE A RENEWED MOMENTUM UNDER THE PRESUMPTION OF UNIFYING THE JIHAD AMONG SUNNI IRAQ AND SYRIA, AND THE REST OF THE SUNNIS IN THE ARAB WORLD AGAINST WHAT IT CONSIDERS ONE ENEMY, THE DISSENTERS. ISI COULD ALSO DECLARE AN ISLAMIC STATE THROUGH ITS UNION WITH OTHER TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS IN IRAQ AND SYRIA, WHICH WILL CREATE GRAVE DANGER IN REGARDS TO UNIFYING IRAQ AND THE PROTECTION OF ITS TERRITORY.

2. {REDACTED}

3. THE RENEWING FACILITATION OF TERRORIST ELEMENTS FROM ALL OVER THE ARAB WORLD ENTERING INTO THE IRAQ AREA

Aldous Huxley • 3 years ago

Yet another 'conspiracy theory' becomes proven fact.

The reality is that the fascists at the CIA helped create the groups that became Al-Qaeda and the Taliban to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. We encouraged these groups to go to Chechnya and continue bothering the Russians. We took the side of the Islamist KLA, against the Christian Serbs, in the Kosovo War. We illegally armed listed terrorist organization Ansar Al-Sharia in Libya to eliminate Ghaddafi. The USA has not-so-'secretly' always been an integral part of the terrorism problem we publicly pretend to oppose. Islamist terrorists are a tool the US is using to exert its neo-colonialism in te Middle East and Afghanistan.

Aldous Huxley • 3 years ago

Briefly:

Chechnya:

http://www.zerohedge.com/ne...

Kosovo:

http://www.theguardian.com/...

Afghanistan:

http://www.amazon.com/Charl...

Overview:

http://www.foreignpolicyjou...

Amerika is evil. Both parties suck. We need to take our nation back from the DNC and the GOP.

Robert Zraick • 3 years ago

I agree, but I am not sure who you mean by "We". As far as I can tell, on average the American citizen is either in favor of big oppressive tyrannical collectivist government, or does not care, or perhaps is just to propagandized to understand reality.

I think "We" are in a minority. Sucks.

Aldous Huxley • 3 years ago

Syria next:

Not only was the US giving billions per year in arms and aid to Qatar and Saudi Arabia, who were in turn giving billions per year in arms and aid to terrorists in Libya. The US CIA was also directly arming terrorists rebels groups in Syria. Here is a snapshot:

"Two of the main rebel groups receiving weapons from the United States to fight both the regime and jihadist groups in Syria have surrendered to al-Qaeda.

The US and its allies were relying on Harakat Hazm and the Syrian Revolutionary Front to become part of a ground force that would attack the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

For the last six months the Hazm movement, and the SRF through them, had been receiving heavy weapons from the US-led coalition, including GRAD rockets and TOW anti-tank missiles.

But on Saturday night Harakat Hazm surrendered military bases and weapons supplies to Jabhat al-Nusra, when the al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria stormed villages they controlled in northern Idlib province

In Idlib, Harakat Hazm gave up their positions to Jabhat al-Nusra “without firing a shot”, according to some reports, and some of the men even defected to the jihadists.

In Aleppo, where Harakat Hazm also has a presence, the group has survived, but only by signing a ceasefire agreement with Jabhat al-Nusra, and giving up some of their checkpoints to the group."

Sources:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

http://www.memri.org/report...

http://therightscoop.com/wh...

https://syrianfreepress.fil...

Conclusion:

There are no “moderate” rebels. There are only Jihadists pretending to be what we want them to be to get weapons, money and air support from us. Once they get it, they will pass it on up the ladder to ISIS.

EmilyEnso • 3 years ago

Excellent comment.
A comprehensive and compelling post.
The USA is a terrorist state and the world's greatest sponsor of terror.
As for John McCain - he is an utter disgrace and his continued re-election an insult to the concept of democracy.
And an affront to decent people everywhere.

didactic1 • 3 years ago

It's all about israel, the sunni powers like Saudi A and Egypt versus the Iran coaltion of syria, lebanon, hiszobollah and the effective shia groups in Iraq. We are distracted by the obscene gratuitous slaughters by ISIS, but in the end, Iran or Israel/Egypt/Riyadh will win.

In retrospect, the US should have cut a deal with the Russians, Iran and Assad back when that revolt broke out. Why didnt the US?

Abel Ashes • 3 years ago

The Koran, just like the Bible, is full of contradictions. I respect Muslims. I do not respect Islam. I respect Christians. I do not respect Christianity. I respect Jews. I do not respect Judaism. I have read the Quran in its etirety several times and regularly use it as reference material. It is true that I cannot read Arabic (yet). However I have read multiple different translations and countless interpretations from Muslims of all sorts of different persuasions. I also have friends from around the world, Muslim and non-Muslim, ex-Muslim (apostate) and “infidels” from Muslim countries and cultures, who I discuss Islam with including specific topics addressed in the Quran.

I have also debated and argued with many extremist Muslims online including members of al Nusra and ISIS and Taliban supporters in Pakistan and Afghanistan and can assure you that for them it’s all about “true Islam”. I really wish I could agree with you that the extremists are following Islam incorrectly. I wish the more moderate, secular, and liberal strains of Islam were more in line with what is actually in the Quran, but honestly I cannot say that. If I said that I would be a liar. I have read the Quran and I know better.

As for those Muslims and non-Muslims alike who are bound to see criticism of an ancient cult that is currently enslaving millions around the globe as a form of prejudice called “Islamophobia” yet again, let me point out that the Bible is just as bad in many respects. The Books of Joshua, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Revelations, Job are all full of horrible, immoral, evil things that no good-natured person would ever support outside of religion.

I have read both the Bible and the Koran from cover to cover multiple times and have read much of the Hadith, have taken Middle East history and international relations classes, lived in Tunisia for several months, have known many Muslim writers and activists over the years, and can and have debated everyone from liberal and moderate Muslims to people that believe all Muslims are the same to Shia extremists to Sunni extremists. I have had online debates with members of the Free Syrian Army and Pakistani Taliban supporters. I know apostates from all over the Islamic world and their struggle is my struggle.

I had Christianity forced on me and I was abused in the name of Christianity and it is the same with both religions. I know the scriptures well enough to show you how both the Bible and Koran justify horrible atrocities like rape, imperialism, genocide, hatred of nonbelievers, the killing of nonbelievers and apostates, war against other religions, genocide, pedophilia, condemning good people to an eternity in "hell", promotion of primitive pseudoscience, sexism, the killing of women who have sex outside marriage, the killing of homosexuals, theocratic tyranny.

The problem is not Muslims or Christians. The problem is that both the Bible and Koran are filled with contradictory messages. Yes there are messages of forgiveness (often for things that aren't wrong in the first place, but I digress) and mercy for the poor and poetic inspirational sounding messages that give people hope, but they also contain messages calling for their followers to believe and do some things that are utterly insane, barbaric, ignorant, hateful, and evil.

The Old Testament is even worse than the Koran in that regard, but the Koran is pretty awful. The problem is not a matter of stereotyping. Most Muslims would quit Islam if they would actually read and understand the Koran, because most Muslims are just ordinary good people.

The problem is that when Islamic State takes Yazidi women (who are not considered "people of the book") Women as sex slaves there is justification for this horrible practice in the Koran. (The Old Testament contains similar stories of "god" sanctioning "holy men" to take slaves and raping them after holy wars against non believers and pagans.

33:50
Sahih International
O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

Or as my N.J. Dawood translation reads: “Prophet, we have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom God has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. This privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer.”

Abel Ashes: “That verse taken out of context make makes it seem that only Mohammed was allowed to take non-believing women as sex slaves (which would be enough to demonstrate that Mohammed was an evil, perverted, and cruel, and immoral man) however…”

Sahih International 4:3
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].

N.J. Dawood 1956 translation: “If you fear that you cannot treat orphans with fairness, then you may marry other women who seem good to you: two, three, or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot maintain equality among them, marry one only or any slave-girls you may own. This will make it easier for you to avoid injustice.”

Abel Ashes: Apparently, owning slaves-girls or possessing other people “by your right hand” is not seen as “injustice” in true Islam. Slavery is justified and marrying slaves is justified. Polygamy is also justified, which I don’t have a problem with as long as everyone is a consenting adult. However, true, real, authentic Islam as invented and sold by Mohammed in the Quran justifies Muslim men to take children as wives and to take non-believing women as slaves and to “marry” them against their will.

According to the Quran Muslim men can marry up to four Muslim women if they can treat them all fairly and if they cannot they should either only marry one Muslim woman or ANY number of slave women that they possess as property because they do not have to treat non-believing women fairly. Believing in the fairy tales of God and the afterlife and angels and djinn and all the other make believe childish bullshit is apparently necessary to not be seen as worthy of death and or slavery, including sex slavery, in true, authentic, real Islam. ISIS are real Muslims.

Sahih International 4:25
And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Abel Ashes: A few verses later Mohammed the “prophet”, er I mean “Allah” (wink wink), contradicts himself (as the Bible and Koran do countless times). In 4:3 he says Muslim men can marry “any” women “whom their “right hand possesses” or “slave-girls” (depending on the translation), but by verse 4:25 he has clarified that the slave-girl should be a believer. Did slave-girls have the right to say “no” I will not marry you? Nope. “Their people” were asked permission but the girl herself was not.

Sahih International 24:31 And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons, their sisters’ sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

Abel Ashes: Neither Judaism, Christianity, nor Islam thought to outlaw slavery. Is not slavery one of the worst crimes against humanity? Isn’t slavery one of the most immoral things a person could ever do to another person? Yet in all three Abrahamic faiths God has chosen to allow slavery while forbidding all sorts of things which are not immoral.
Sahih International 24:33

But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess – then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

Abel Ashes: At least Mohammed , oops I mean “Allah” has in his “wisdom” made it forbidden to force slaves into prostitution “if” they want to preserve their chastity. There is no option for the slave girl to have sex with someone she loves however. She is a slave after all. How “merciful” that she will be “forgiven” if the Muslim scum who “possess” her do choose to force her into prostitution. How “merciful” indeed.

Michele • 3 years ago

When you profess to dislike Christianity, at least don't quote the Bible, quote the Gospel. I dare you to find in it any justification for anything other than love of the neighbour and forgiveness.

Yastreblyansky • 3 years ago

You're reading this completely wrong. The document is talking about what the administration fears, not what it hopes for, which is in the last point, the survival of the Baghdad regime.

ISIS existed long before the document was written; it was founded under conditions created by the Bush administration in Camp Bucca in 2004. It's true that our closest "allies" (e.g. Saudi Arabia and Turkey) fail to oppose it. Thanks, Bush, for fixing us up with such crappy allies. But the idea that the Obama administration supports it is just dumb or crazy and not shown by this evidence in any way.

Southern • 3 years ago

Daesh are simply another Gladio, for the middle east.

Robert Barsocchini • 3 years ago

Could be. It's not entirely clear. But Int'l relations scholar Dr. Nafeez Ahmed concludes the docs show that despite danger to Iraq, West and its allies would continue to support the Syrian opposition due to goal of removing Assad. ISIS (Sunni) opposes both East and West, but that might be viewed, strategically, as better than a group in Syria allied with East, or Shias. US is most strongly allied with Sunnis stemming from Saudi Arabia. Ahmed quotes a RAND strategy advising cultivating Sunnis to defeat Shias as way of dissolving Iran, which is precursor, in theory, to dissolving Russia and China (in the West's dreams). But a lot of people will die in mean time.

https://medium.com/insurge-...

Yastreblyansky • 3 years ago

That strain certainly exists in US government especially in CIA and Congress, under Israeli-Saudi influence, but I'm confident Obama's plan is to work toward a comprehensive political settlement acceptable to Shi'a and a future in which Iran eventually assumes its natural leading role.

Tomonthebeach • 1 year ago

Bush unprovokedly invades Iraq under totally fall pretense. He then declares that no soldier in the Hussein army may serve in the new US-puppet Iraqi army.

You are a highly-trained Muslim soldier with combat experience and are now unemployable at home. So you and 10s of thousands of your comrades form your own damned army, quickly learn that everybody, even the US President who fire you, so you start to create your own country - experience little resistance, and eventually declare a califate - ISIS. Oops, we need to put the tigers back in the cage - Too late!

So, all this Monday-morning quarterbacking seems like very old news to me.

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Keithon de Bique • 3 years ago

You can "count" on the MSM to grill Barry on his role in the IS planned take over

King of Jerusalem • 3 years ago

I want to marry a brave Russian female

bygraceursavd • 3 years ago

It has long been known the US was the reason ISIS began in the first place. Obama made a big deal about "ending the war" in Iraq and pulling out all USA Forces. Only saying that, knowing full well that Al Quaida , the Muslim Brotherhood, and other Jihadists would take over. They became ISIS, with Obama's un-spoken blessing. His JV Team is now a Full Team with many on the bench waiting eagerly to play. The Main Stream Media knew this also.

david t. krall • 3 years ago

They didn't need Obama's "blessing" , anymore than "W's" blessing...That's just for show...It was and has been an agenda in motion, like a speeding/ accelerating train or a downhill "snowball ( or snowjob !) getting bigger and bigger moving down hill...Obama only signed off on it ( part pressure/part duped/part "sold" aka manipuated) to subdue, or at least bend towards/fend off , "meet" his neo-con/hawks halfway" to placate them ( with his foolish belief & self perception of not knuckling under or caving in totally to "them", WHICH HE HAS,anyway ! Has anybody noticed the sheer, unmistakeable look of intimidation if not cowering fear when he was standing at a podium and on the same stage with THE TOP military and national security heavy-weights about 10 days ago and also about 3 months ago??? No swagger or strut there ! It was very obvious..-- What's the next best thing to a WH jumper { as a "warning"?} Bring the WH to him, as in Hawaii over he weekend, where some guy had his drone flying above the Pres. motorcade and/or his vacation /holiday break residence. He was detained and questioned-BUT NO FURTHER DETAILS WERE GIVEN.--just like I predicted...akin to the Thanksgiving WH jumper). It is like I have said before here, in other posts and comments... Just like the ongoing agenda ( just one example, but a good one) of a mega/large op-program at regime change using thugs and terrorists, criminals and gangs, mercenaries and fanatics for profit, formed as murderous militias and killers cadres covertly and cleverly funded, organized, sponsored, trained, armed and weaponized" and used once against Castro's Cuba ( see: Operation Mongoose/ JiM/Wave, ZR-Rifle, Operation 40, 54/12 Committee, ONI Task-Forces, later Operation Condor and Operation Charley, etc) ISIS is NO different than the thugs used by CIA/Dod/US. Corp sectors and regional allies and regional surrogates. Since at least 1948, its all part of the same covert intell;defense paradigm...part of the same playbook...ISIS is just the most current proxy 'army" or cadre/militia with a few "extra layers of plausible deniability and "blanketed" and wrapped"... & "sweetened" with an extra of "deniabiity" within the current "terror-framework or mindset" to cloud, for or confuse perceptions.....a perfect "wrap"...

david t. krall • 3 years ago

From what have been able to deduce and approximate from watching and listening, ( not just seeing and hearing) and in turn connecting many dots, from just about every possible major news outlet ( I strongly suggest and advise watching FIRST and primarily , if not only. F-24 news about this !!! ) It is within the high possibility, BUT (!) more like a very strong and likelyhood that Operation Gladio, or something like it, has been "re-created", rebranded, repackaged, even "re-rationalized" within bureaucratic circles, and "insulated" and cleverly wrapped" under the label and "blanket" of terrorism, has indeed been activated and is in its very current 'activist" stages. For all intents and purposes, "dusted off" & "plugged in", again. It appears to have been "ramped up" since January with the Charlie Hebdo "episode". These series of activities in France, just like "in yesteryear" primarily directed, sustained and well coordinated in primarily but not isolated to Italy then, and now in regards to the Friday, Paris attack, are way too sophisticated, and planned in such a professionally surreptitious manner and fashion to be passed off and accepted as the work of "terrorists", BUT VERY WELL CONNECTED, BACKED, SPONSORED, ARMED AND TRAINED PROS, exactly as stated by the French government on Sunday night. Pros' with a long and translucent but very connected leash back to their handlers, sponsors and trainers. No doubt, highly indicative of their own expertise, which is abundantly clear. This team of killers, was VERY well coached and VERY well trained, and was sustained and moved with a significant and hi-level amount of "reach" and pull", for it to have planned and then carried out such a wide-spread, well coordinated "strike" operation with much 'shock and awe". This was the true work of "magicians" well crafted, with much experience in the "black arts" and "dark world" where such operations require, warrant and ultimately as well, really explain and show such actions and proclivities as being an extremely a very hi-level skill set of proficiency, and experience.

david t. krall • 3 years ago

From: David T, Krall
Regarding the attack on Friday night, before any media biased view ( from the so-called left or right, or even media "controls") or slants were imbued, spread or given it was an immediate and still is a strong correct impression BY EVERYBODY, that the perpetrators, the "kamikazi commandos" who carried this out and brought it to horrific consequences, were a professional and top flight group. Heavily coordinated, extremely well armed, well versed and well trained with a hi-skill-set. Top-shelf. The attack at the soccer stadium itself is highly indicative, of significant, if not massive "reach 'and "pull" due to the fact that the French president was present at and during this soccer game. Is it NOT to be assumed, but can be and is a stated fact the, just like with any other major leader, be it the USA., Russia, China, Japan, Brazil and all over Europe, and really just about all over the world, that when it was determined, probably weeks, or even two or three weeks ago that the French president was to attend that soccer match, that stadium AND its staff were screened, :"inspected', scanned from top to bottom, above, under, below it. Every "nook and cranny" was examined and searched...every possible exit and entrance, AT least twice and even right beforehand. Now, if it is a given that such an operation, with a high degree of "success" which was predicated and warranted on such significant overt and obvious levels of expertise, including the planning ( which itself took some effort to avoid discovery during this planning stage) which occurred and with just, at this one specific and vital location, it is indeed, a glaring example and display of this level of skill and expertise. THAT THE ATTACKERS, HERE AT THE STADIUM ALONE, IN COORDINATION AND IN PRE-PLANNED CONTACT WITH THEIR ACCOMPLICES, WERE ABLE TO PENETRATE, COMPROMISE AND CIRCUMNAVIGATE the security and protective net and procedures that are strictly in place and followed for the safety of the French president, WERE ABLE TO BREACH AND OVERRIDE such procedures, including being able to accomplish the rigging and planting of bombs secured and placed within one of the large TV display monitors, is a feat that can only be attributed not to or only the attackers BUT TO THEIR COACHES, HANDLERS AND TRAINERS, who obviously are extremely well versed and themselves of an EXTREMELY HI LEVEL SKILL SET WITH ABUNDANT AMOUNTS OF EXPERTISE IN PLANNING AND CARRYING OUT SUCH ACTIONS AND ENTERPRISES. This attack at the stadium just alone and by itself shows and displays an exceedingly well coached team of attackers and killers that by themselves could NEVER have compromised the security and protective procedures and devices in-place and used as standard operating and by-the book rules of protection of world leaders, in this case the French President. . We can state with an amount of certainty that their trainers, handlers and coaches themselves, well connected, are extremely proficient and were once, themselves, well trained in the "black arts" of sabotage, espionage and in the uses of, for all intents and purposes terror, avoidance detection-including "real" and fake passports, etc, ( if and when nec), weapon use and transport, bomb making and transfer, etc.This attack, alone at the stadium, with the presence of the French President, is highly characteristic of group of extremely well coached and well versed practitioners who did the foot work while "others" ( their handlers) next to and behind them guided and assisted them in stepping over and into the "breached and opened windows" of a usually VERY secured domain. That is an undeniable fact. We can only imagine the skill set and mental mind-set of their handlers and coaches, who no doubt have been involved in similar operations world wide. More to follow...

AmerizonWarrior • 3 years ago

smoking gun? yeah tell that to the french...what americans want the french and everyone else to know is that the american people did not support this horrific idea...that was squarely on obama's ugly shoulders...and because of that, he has put this nation in grave danger

david t. krall • 3 years ago

And NOW the recipient, the supposed recipient of an airline "ACCIDENT" or "random crash" is the same nation that is NOW known and recognized as EFECTIVELY interfering, intervening and literally interdicting the ISIS operation/program, and enterprise...and there-by "messing-up" the agenda of its', ISIS,' masters in CIA/Dod/Sunni/Mossad sectors....Would and could that airplane crash really be considered a surprise, unexpected or unpredicted?...Considering the enormity of the arrogant and unaccountable perceived stakes, investment, size and momentous effort to topple Assad using a "fake" terror, SUPPOSEDLY anti-western militia but in actuality and reality behind a covert mask of "national security" and "plausible deniability" is a creation, funded, armed and covertly used as an appendage and arm of such criminal interests and sectors...Look at my last two post of yesterday and the day before...Would not such actions by Russia, welcomed not just in Syria but also keenly perceived and seen as hopeful and possibly also applied in Iraq by it leadership, bring about such a form or retribution, from such sectors
??? Even China, Iran and other nations have been appreciative and have recognized Russia's campaign against ISIS...only the US and to some degree the UK, BUT the US and its Saudi/Sunni friends especially have been very strident and very consistently vocal against this Russian campaign in Syria WHICH WAS AGREED UPON MUTUALLY BY THE RUSSIAN GOV AND THE SYRIAN GOV....and now the US has the nerve and actually is showing its "true hand" and motives by sending troops into another nation, in this case Syria, WITHOUT any expressed or even implied authorization or agreement with that nation. So two questions MUST be asked: Now that ISIS is on the run ( in Syria) and the US has shown its anger at such Russian actions, what is the real motive of US troops heading for Syria and who will they be really helping????? Also, if ISIS has claimed responsibility for shooting down this Russian civilian airliner of late Friday Night /early Sat. Morning and then Egypt has stated and attempted to contradict that ( which is odd) and then 'somebody" has released a statement via Egyptian news sources that ISIS is not capable of carrying out such an act (how would that be known(?) and ,even so early on???). Even as soon as early this afternoon (Saturday), The Egyptian Gov. released a statement that can only be interpreted as exceedingly clairvoyant and full of ESP when it stated that based upon the plane's type of landing and based upon the bodies recovered ( which was only at that time 15 !) that the plane was NOT shot down or the victim of terrorism. A very hasty and very quick pronouncement, to say the least !!! Now, here is the clincher...if ISIS was not capable of bringing that plane down, even though it claimed responsibility and that claim was oddly contradicted by and thru Egyptian sources...then WHO brought it down?????

david t. krall • 3 years ago

The opening and ending lines of my post below are to be read as "starting" link....and "walking" out...Sorry...my mind and thoughts race 'way ahead" of my fingers on the keyboard, when sharing these insights...I'll watch myself...

david t. krall • 3 years ago

What could be a staring link ( one of many) or tangent point for all this?...According to a documentary on CNN aired many times, when the (now ISIS leader) known as "BIG Daddy, ( a CIA nom d 'plume I am sure !) was in the major prison (In Iraq ?) he was "noticed" and 'somehow" caught the attention of US Military and CIA prison officials. That could and would have been, obviously due to these officials and others having and creating files and also having moles and informants naturally inside this prison. One of these ranking US Military and/or CIA officials at this prison is quoted to have said, "Ah ! Here is a man we can deal with.!.." A quote used and that's been inadvertently recorded many times in history, with as much importance and meaning, and with as much repercussions. And a quote used to intone and only be interpreted as for someone to be approached and used in some type of intended and "semi" reciprocal basis for secret/covert and soon to be major use and function...That prison and others like it, was, ( and still are !) nothing less that US intell controlled "incubation" centers for recruitments, sources and data. A perfect, controlled setting for such age old intell uses, proclivities, "habits" and equally age-old standard practices such as covert recruitment and "gathering", collecting and collating intelligence and information and formation and uses of these informants for later expedient functions as assets, agents and appendages of, in this case, US intelligence and US special forces operations, e.g. the secret creation, orientation, funding and arming of a large covert proxy-frankenstein militia/cadre to "ignite" and "keep lit" an agenda, nothing less then a "counter-insurgency"- op or "war" under the guise or false ruse of SUPPOSED anti-western terror but actually and in reality an arm of such sectors....until, if l and when the situation and "need" arises to insert the direct use of regular US combat/ and/or US special forces....More dots to ponder and connet. ..We've seen this before....Cuba, Vietnam and on and on...Obviously, President Obama wants to leave the WH on 1/20/17 standing up and waling out, on two legs, instead some pressured possible "alternative"....