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oron61 • 2 years ago

Let's see. "confess your sins, repent of them, and by faith, ... believe, agree with Me that this is the state of affairs..." That's a flowery and dishonest way of saying "If you don't follow (confess, repent, believe the right things, tell me what a bad creation you are) to my satisfaction, I will throw you into (hell name) (using your status as a sinner any my unwillingness to save you unless you choose the right god as a reason). There is no way for you to know whether I am (the right god, given how little difference my story actually makes) until after you die and you see my smile or my frown (since the only way I communicate in a manner that can be divided into subject and predicate is a 1900 year old book). Good luck."
First, it's a lie that all other gods throw people into hell to burn forever. Not everyone believes that God is evil enough to torture people for no reason after making them immortal.
Some believe that all hell is purgatory, and that God actually enables people to do good instead of imputing it as pure evil because he had us born sinners. Some people would believe that Jesus died for everyone, no matter what they grew up beliving, almost as though he wasn't lying through his teeth when he said that those who pjrsur righteousness will be filled.
You're saying God's acting like, "Oh, this is the state of affairs. It looks exactly like other religions as Christians project what they really think of God (when you don't actually look around at other gods who die for humanity, some of them doing it every year,) but I swear, it's different with me. Just because I do exactly what I say I'll do doesn't mean I'm like that!" when it was he who arranged the affairs, made Adam's sin transfer to us for being born, and then infinitely punishes us for dying in the wrong religious faith.
The idea that sin is a taint that God can't allow in his proximity is saying that both the Son and the Spirit aren't actully God (since they are in the pesence of sinners all the time) that sin is a substance (which can control God) while goodness isn't anything real but a lack of sin (especially since God made sin infinitely easy to commit and infinitely damning and made virtue worthless unless you join the right tribe), and that sin can't be defeated (which is why God immortalizes sinners in hell forever for the crime of dying in the wrong religion). It's amazing that you can claim that Jesus is greater than Adam when Jesus requires other humans to threaten you with hell and successfully convince you (Romans 10) but Adam is completely natural and defaultas the way you were created (Ps. 139:13; 51:5).
It's amazing the Bible claims again and again that we are repayed according to our deeds when the core of Christianity is that joining the tribe means you never have to right any of your wrongs in the hereafter. Repayment according to your deeds? Nah, just infinite torment or infinite bliss.
Do you really not see the similarities? All you have to offer is a lawless version of other religions with a Greco-Manichean version of hell that Islam has appropriated. It's completely foreign to Judaism. You pay so much lipservice to loving your neighbors, but you know that Paul's Greek overrides Jesus' Aramaic. It's the path of least resistance to make it a 1/0 fate and get your 1 by being in a tribe and give everyone else the 0.

Pat Dilloway • 3 years ago

And as far as this "wager" goes, there are so many more religions than Christianity so it's not Christianity or atheism as a fifty-fifty coin flip. Christianity is the single largest religion but even that covers only about 1/7th of the world's population--and Christianity itself is split into a bunch of different sects and sub-sects. For instance, I grew up "Lutheran" which is a sect of Christianity, but our church was also "Missouri Synod" which is a sub-sect of the Lutheran church.

So if you say, "You might as well believe in God, because what the heck," there is actually a very, very tiny chance you'll be part of the "correct" religion. I mean, if I were still a Missouri Synod Lutheran, what if the "right" answer to get into Heaven is actually Wisconsin Synod Lutheran? Close but no cigar! Enjoy burning in Hell for all eternity!

In the end, because there is such a small chance of being "right," you're best off just choosing the religion that fits you--even if that's none at all.

John Oberon • 3 years ago

I didn't choose a religion. I chose Christ.

Pat Dilloway • 3 years ago

Well that was worth waiting a month for. lol

John Oberon • 3 years ago

By the way, Lutheran is a denomination, not a religion. They don't worship Luther. It is simply a different way of worshipping God. All of these denominations are "correct" only so far as they follow the Word of God. For example, the Catholic church encourages chanting of Hail Mary over and over, and chanting was something Christ spoke directly against. The Catholics believe priests can forgive sins on behalf of God, but they can't. Only God can forgive sins and provided the means through Christ by which that is possible. Catholics believe you confess your sins in secret to a priest who will never reveal them (not much of a confession, is it?), but the Word of God says we are to confess our sins to each other and in public and praise God for His forgiveness and help. So any church is only as good and true as its adherence to the Word of God.

Pat Dilloway • 3 years ago

"By the way, Lutheran is a denomination, not a religion"

Maybe the Covid is affecting your brain because I said, "For instance, I grew up "Lutheran" which is a sect of Christianity, but our church was also "Missouri Synod" which is a sub-sect of the Lutheran church."

I suppose you were referring to where I said, "there is actually a very, very tiny chance you'll be part of the "correct" religion"

But obviously if I already said it was a sect before that I already knew it wasn't a "religion" and so what's the point in trying to correct me?

The point being that even if you group all "Christians" together it's still only 1/7 of the world's population and one of many religions. Pascal's Wager wants you to think of it as a coin flip when really the mathematical odds more like those of winning the lottery.

John Oberon • 3 years ago

How have you been? I had covid and came through okay.

Pat Dilloway • 3 years ago

So did the Queen of England so I guess you're in good company.

Pat Dilloway • 3 years ago

Happy New Year!