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Paul Sawbridge • 10 months ago

I don't recall 'full clean Brexit' being an option on the referendum ballot paper, but it seems the small minority of no-deal Brexiteers seem to have seen different wording from the rest of us.

The only Brexit which is deliverable and will not result in a significant reduction in economic output is one which involves both continued membership of the single market and of the EU customs union. That will also give us a head start towards the Brexiteer free trade Valhalla because it will not result in the mass destruction of a huge number of existing free trade agreements which is an intrinsic consequence of a no-deal Brexit.

Many people thought they were voting for more money for the NHS but a no-deal Brexit will hugely reduce the money the Chancellor has to allocate to the NHS because of the shrinkage to the economy which everyone (even Jacob Rees-Mogg) agrees will happen in the short term.

The EU did not initiate this process and it is ridiculous for no-deal Brexiteers to blame the EU for the fact that it is proving so much more difficult than they promised us when they were touting for our votes in the run-up to the referendum.

Gayle Louise Stephen • 10 months ago

Our prime minister has explicitly ruled out ANY membership of both the single market & customs union & because it was passed by royal assent, this MUST be fully adhered to no matter what. I'm only saying what the EU already announced in their no-deal preparation documents, that all UK-EU flights will end after brexit unless the withdrawal agreement & future trade relationship are FULLY completed & declared, & this is in turn reliant on a full solution to the Irish border being completed. Therefore the likelihood of UK- EU flights continuing after brexit is almost ZERO.

Paul Sawbridge • 10 months ago

If you are right Gayle, it is not just UK-EU flights which will end, it is the vast majority of flights from the UK since they are currently regulated via the EU and there is no possibility of new arrangements being in place in time.

The truth is that they are unlikely to stop because that would be very damaging for all parties. The most likely outcome is that all governments will just ignore the strict legal position for a time. That is how practical politics works. However, once governments start ignoring the law, their citizens tend to follow...

Brexit is a Pandora's box and nobody can predict how it will all turn out. It is very easy for complex negotiations like this to spiral completely out of control and everyone fail to achieve their objective and end up worse off.

Gayle Louise Stephen • 10 months ago

How can governments simply ignore such a position? Won't they be very seriously reprimanded by higher authorities if that were the case? Common sense says not to stop flights but the EU simply don't see it that way. They want flights grounded unless we cave in to their ridiculous demands by fully remaining under ECJ jurisdiction & agreeing to accept their Northern Ireland-only backstop. They're not the type of organisation that bluffs. Once they say they will do something, they mean it.

Gayle Stephen • 10 months ago

The EU have already made it clear that there must NEVER EVER be any form of discussion about any UK-EU aviation agreement or contingency plans, even an emergency one, in the event of a no-deal brexit. They stipulated in their no-deal preparation documents that UK-EU flights MUST NOT be allowed to continue under ANY circumstances in the event of a no-deal brexit. Even a so-called bare bones agreement that has been mentioned in the media of late & mentioned by the EC has been explicitly & officially ruled out by EU diplomats & the EU's chief negotiators due to their deep fears that even a minimalistic aviation deal between us & the EU will cause irreparable damage to their single market. It has to be accepted that all UK-EU flights will be grounded in the event of a no-deal brexit as the EU have made it clear that they are absolutely NOT interested in agreeing an aviation deal with us, ESPECIALLY if we continue refusing to cave in to their ridiculous demands with regards to the ECJ & the Irish border. Also a UK-EU aviation agreement will prevent us from fully leaving the EU & taking back control of our airports. In fact it's the main area that stands in the way of the full clean brexit that the British people voted for which is why agreeing such a deal will heavily undermine our freedom & sovereignty, making this the ULTIMATE BETRAYAL of our country & our democratic vote.

Patrick Doyle • 10 months ago

Their may be no formal discussions going on, but you can bet a lot of informal discussions will be taken place between the civil servants of both sides. They will be getting on with the job without the ugly head of politics interfering. Their are a lot of technical issues to be resolved and politicians do not have the expert knowledge of the complexities of the aviation world, so a lot of ground work has to be done by the civil servants to present to there political masters so when the formal discussions take place the politicians are up to speed.

Gayle Louise Stephen • 10 months ago

The EU will be absolutely FURIOUS if & when they hear about this. They have made it clear that any discussions whatsoever involving aviation, even planning for a no-deal brexit is COMPLETELY & STRICTLY forbidden because they see the grounding of all UK- EU flights as the perfect way to punish us for DARING to leave their corrupt & vindictive club. They want all flights grounded in order to make a political point, plus, they see this as the PERFECT deterrent to the other EU27. It means they will be able to say to the EU leaders that their countries will also become no-fly zones if they ever dare consider leaving the bloc in order to force them into obeying their rules.

Paul Bondsfield • 10 months ago

The problem is that the very real prospect of problems is constantly nay-sayed by leavers who believe in a conspiracy theory around so-called project fear - which doesn't exist - as any sensible person would acknowledge. Making preparations around safety is simply eminently sensible. This stuff won't just happen on its own - it has to be planned for, enacted upon, laws and rules updated to cover any eventuality. Making negative comments every time professional people try to do their jobs and prepare doesn't help anyone.

Gayle Louise Stephen • 10 months ago

The EU have already made it clear that ANY contingency planning discussions about keeping planes flying in the event of a no-deal brexit will NEVER be allowed to happen.

Nick Hollands • 10 months ago

Drip! Drip! Drip! Goes the project fear tap! We're doomed I tell you! Doomed!

PeterF • 10 months ago

but remember lads we will have blue passports everything will be fine

Julie drewls • 10 months ago

yep you will need lot's of spare pages to put the visa's required to visit europe.