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Variable • 3 years ago

This article helps put a fine point on something worth remembering - this fight is not against ethnically Chinese people, but rather than a certain category of wealthy people, that in our case happen to be mostly from China. This needs to be held constantly in view.

Howard Gibb • 3 years ago

Thank you for keeping the discussion on the straight and the narrow.

Im ready for the future "rich" investors to be coming from India, South East Asia and Africa.

we invited the world to come and they did

Variable • 3 years ago

Some of our politicians and business people invited them (and their money) here.... we're going to make sure it doesn't stay.

lol keep thinking that... who is we?

"we" have not met "natural population replacement" rates since 1971

we have 1000 boomers turning 65 each and everyday in Canada (that started in 2011 and wont end until 2028)

by 2034 immigration will account for 100% of population growth

we are going to be who ever immigrates here...

and like I said with booming population, and economies????

it will probably be from India, South East Asia and Africa.

Kazimir Spaski • 3 years ago

Open your eyes ... they.re already here !

you're not Paying Attention ... out here in the Okanagan Valley , those accents are Drowning out the Canadian Voice .

just cause they ain't under your nose ... don't mean that they ain't here !
and vetting these immigrants is a breeze , when it comes to Money ... they ALL GET IN !

and your point? if we can replace ourselves then we really dont have a say when it comes to the future of this country

im sure a person like you would want refugees instead , then you would be crying about them having no money and the money we have to spend on them

Kazimir Spaski • 3 years ago

Lack of Reading Comprehension is at the Top of my List for your response and am not conversing with you , because your Short comings are all to Obvious and it would be a GROSS WASTE OF EVERYONE:S TIME !!!

^ crying about immigrants not being from the "right culture"

here is the reason why...stop being ignorant, and do your research on the subject, the people you want from the "right culture" are having their own population replacement problems

/

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Rising Birthrates Not Enough to Replenish EU Population

Germany, where the rate is 1.59 births per woman, noted a record number of babies in 2016. There were 792,131 children born in the country that year. Officials said this was boosted by an increase in births by non-German women following large numbers of migrant arrivals.

VOAnews

Then dont reply you have added nothing but your poor working class opinions

Raymond Wong • 3 years ago

Dear Rose,
Thank you for the article! I am Chinese Canadian myself (born and raised in Vancouver) and I do understand the frustration; I've been there myself. However, I feel most people didn't purposely blame 'Chinese' people driving up the housing market. Most people blamed money laundering, tax avoidance/evasion, speculation, developers, etc. I feel that the many people in the real estate industry started to 'race bait' to kill the conversation so this would continue. I, like many Canadians would like to see fairness as where money laundering in real estate will stop, end tax avoidance/evasion, speculation. While racism does exist, I feel that we do need to end the money laundering, tax avoidance/evasion, speculation, etc regardless of the race.

the Chinese are expected to invest 1 trillion dollars in the rest of the worlds Real Estate from 2017 to 2027, a good portion of that money is expected to come to Canada

money laundering will be a small % of that total, like it or not that will be the new reality as they add 1 new billionaire every 3 days, 350 new millionaires every day and 350 million more people will be added to their middle class by 2024

as their middle class gets into buying US/Canadian Real Estate these days

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

On the bright side, the average price in the Lower Mainland is down almost 10% since a year ago.

Cracking down on money laundering and things like pre-sales and hiding behind lawyers seems to be working well.

is it really that bright? last I read there is 1 million Canadians who would be underwater with their mortgages right now if interest rates went up 1%

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

Not to mention all the speculators who would collectively lose billions if prices fell.

If you're asking me if we should keep the bubble inflated at the expense of millions of people foregoing home ownership in the future to protect perhaps a million now, I'm just not going to agree.

I dont think I would agree either... but unfortunately we/government are not going to screeew over grandma and grandpa so some millennial can afford a home, as we ran up the National Debt, and stopped meeting natural population replacement rates in 1971. and thats the problem as our mostly poor boomers own 191K homes(the only real asset they have) in the lower mainland, and not unlike the rest of Canada most of them (90% range) want to stay in their homes until death. that only happens if they can get lines of credit or reverse mortgage their homes, which aint going to happen if their homes are gong down in value rapidly

its just bad optics for 90 year old Grandma/Grandpa to be begging on the street for money

than us to just blame millennials for being lazy

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"but unfortunately we/government are not going to screeew over grandma and grandpa so some millennial can afford a home"

Actually, I think that is exactly what is happening now and will continue to happen.

I own a home, and am fine with its value dropping because I have a couple of kids who will need to buy. That's the way things have always worked. The current situation is unique and in my view not worth supporting.

I have no god-given right to buy a home for 200,000 and sell it 20 years later for 1.2 million to a millennial. That's not sustainable economics.

workless • 3 years ago

That's great to hear. I don't hear a lot of home-owners saying this kind of thing. Thanks!

you maybe fine with it but there are many cash poor boomers who are not fine with it as they have the votes until they die off

we all pine for the good ole days? I remember trying to sell a commerical property with residences on top for 7 years and having to take a loss on it, that was when interest rates were sky high and there was no guarantee you could sell your home for a profit

mind you them good ole days we didnt pay for the first time around

is it the best solution? I doubt it but it is the solution our government came up with

complaining about it now is too late... as we should have had more kids, demanded to pay more taxes and receive less social services

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"but there are many cash poor boomers who are not fine with it "

And that's too bad for them but that's why its called a market.

"as they have the votes until they die off"

Not any more, boomers are a declining percentage of the population.

"as we should have had more kids, demanded to pay more taxes and receive less social services"

What are you talking about here?

57% of Millennials voted in the 2015 election, 78% of Boomers (age 65 to 74)

what am I saying? maybe you had 2.1 kids but most Canadians did not
as we have not met population replacement rates since 1971

our debt is 620 billion and counting, so im sure a person like you blames it on social services...and too many hand outs

but we all are to blame as well, because we certainly did not pay enough taxes to afford the high standard of living we enjoyed

ie we should have demanded to pay more taxes, and demanded we get less social services

to afford our high standard of living

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

Baby boomers only make up 29% of our population now, (26% of the US population).

And they become even less every year. The smart money doesn't follow a shrinking market.

"our debt is 620 billion and counting, so im sure a person like you blames it on social services"

No, I don't. Only about 5% of our debt came about due to social service needs.

At the end of the day the market will determine what someone's house is worth, not the government. And the market seems to be saying it will be less than a year ago and probably less in another year.

Canadian boomers want to stay in their homes as they age

About 91 per cent said they want to stay in their home or in their neighbourhood and live independently as long as possible.

CBC

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

Let them, no one is forcing them to sell.

workless • 3 years ago

@Frank_inBC I disagree. If people continue to hold on to their detached houses with only one or two people in them then prices will continue to rise and the young and less-than-high income residents will continue to have to leave. There is a social/psychological trauma associated with moving (especially if you're older and you've lived somewhere a long time) but until we find ways to help people re-locate to apartments and higher-density living we will not solve this problem. Now, we can't force them to move (they are legally entitled to remain) but I would argue we can provide incentives to make it happen. The higher priority is increasing the utilization of land.

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

workless, but prices aren't rising, they're falling. Some may think boomers will stay in their homes till someone has to drag their dead body out the door, but that isn't the reality, which is, for the most part, they will downsize, or move into assisted living or with family as they age. Their houses will enter the market and, as long as government policies don't change, will put downward pressure on prices until we achieve a better balance between incomes and house prices.

well obviously the boomers are dying off, but not fast enough for your kids as the first of the boomers who turned 65 in 2011 wont reach the average life expectancy of a Canadian for another 9 years

the market will determine what someone house is worth?

yes with the, Speculation Tax, Vacancy Tax, Mortgage stress test etc etc

im all fine for that...but if the Government going to step in when housing prices are too high... then they should step in when they get to low

im thinking when the boomers start to reach that average life expectancy age of a Canadian and 100s upon 100s of houses a day hit the market

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"but if the Government going to step in when housing prices are too high... then they should step in when they get to low"

What would be too low?

" the first of the boomers who turned 65 in 2011 wont reach the average life expectancy of a Canadian for another 9 years"

They won't stay in their houses till their last breath. Most will downsize or move into assisted living before then.

Boomer's houses will start hitting the market, if they haven't already, as soon as they see it as a depreciating asset that they no longer have to live in. That will drive prices further down.

What would be too low?, thats a good question I would ask what is too high?

are we looking at the big picture, our Government is stepping into regulate when it looks like the market will regulate itself

maybe you are right these boomers start to downsize before they pass away, instead of getting a slew of 100s of estate sales everyday

and what if the pendulum swings back to the way it was in the 80s and 90s,

not going to say it will happen but there are people who want to cut off all immigration, stop bringing in the folks to invest or work to prop up our economy

where your kids scrape together all their savings to buy a home for 700K and watch its value depreciate every year,

watch our income and property taxes go up to support the economy pay down debt pay into CPP etc etc etc

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"What would be too low?, thats a good question I would ask what is too high?"

Too high is when people making the median income can't afford to buy even a lower priced home in the same city in which they work.

Government regulation is to allow the market to function. The market isn't going to function properly given all the shenanigans that have been going on. For the market to function fairly you have to have fair rules.

That's all that's going on.

"where your kids scrape together all their savings to buy a home for 700K and watch its value depreciate every year"

That's why markets fall faster than they rise. Its just not smart to buy a depreciating asset.

"watch our income and property taxes go up to support the economy pay down debt pay into CPP etc etc etc"

Unrelated. House prices falling to be more in line with income is not going to make anyone pay more into CPP.

New pot laws could bust rural BC's economy

By Lisa Cordasco, September 2016

BC growers worry they will be cut out of the equation as governments move towards legalization.

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU'S promise to legalize marijuana could cripple an underground economy in British Columbia that experts at Simon Fraser University’s Sauder School of Business estimate is worth $2 to $5 billion dollars a year.

“Cannabis is the economic backbone of most small towns across this province,” says Teresa Taylor, co-founder of “Craft Cannabis,” a
BC-based group of small marijuana producers who supply dispensaries, medical marijuana patients and recreational users.

focusonline

fair rules,

come on..... lets pretend there was no money laundering in the past... as small town BC was built on Mariuanna Grow Ops in the past... I know for a fact money was being run through Casinos before these Drug Gangs went international and did their sophisticated money laundering scheme we now read about in the news

Global News puts the amount of money coming into Real Estate each year in BC around 36 billion with 5 billion of that being laundered money

what I see people imply is that is "all" laundered money, when the majority of the money is not laundered money coming into our economy

so yes ofcourse what we need to do is stem the flow of that laundered money...

but it is estimated the Chinese will invest 1 trillion in Real Estate around the world by 2027 a good chunk of that will come to Canada, and a good chunk of that will be legit

as for CPP one of the reasons why we aint paying more into CPP? is because immigrants
/
/
In 1993, the chief actuary of the CPP predicted that the CPP fund would be exhausted by 2015 unless action was taken. He also estimated that if pension promises continued to be funded on a pay-as-you-go basis, the contribution rate would need to rise by 2030 to 14.2 per cent of covered pay. By comparison, the actual contribution rate from
inception until the 1980s was just 3.6 per cent of pay.

According to Paul McCrossan, a former Tory MP who handled the CPP file starting in
the mid-1980s, the government of the day had become aware of the problem but also realized there was no easy way to fix it. Fortunately for us, it succeeded. It was a bipartisan effort that took 20 years to accomplish and involved four basic steps.

The first step was to ramp up the immigration rate and to give priority to younger independent immigrants rather than older family members. Remember, the CPP was a
quasi-Ponzi scheme so an influx of younger immigrants helped to stabilize CPP costs. Canada has had a higher immigration rate ever since the 1980s and this is one reason why that policy has to continue.

TheGlobeMail

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

What is your argument?

We have immigration, if we instead had a declining population we would pay more in CPP. But that has nothing to do with house prices.

Money laundering on the other hand has been part of the problem in the rise of house prices.

bottomline we can pretend it is all money laundering, but even more money will be coming and most of it will be legit, as is with most of the money invested in our Real Estate right now

this is a little off topic but here we are complaining about house prices, when lets say we do get home prices down in a perfect Utopian world

/

/

Sold on your behalf: 164 B.C. schools and hospitals, agricultural and industrial lots worth $1 billion

VancouverSun

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"Sold on your behalf: 164 B.C. schools and hospitals, agricultural and industrial lots worth $1 billion"

Blame the previous Liberal government.

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

Right now, for the past year, prices have been declining. I believe they will continue to decline until more in line with incomes.

That's just a normal market which happens when you level the playing field.

well if you believe it is foreign investors(mainly Chinese investors) who were a big factor in our Real Estate?, then you need to study up on places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia etc etc etc and the measures they took to stem foreign investment in their Real Estate to get an idea where our prices are headed, depending on the country and what cycle they are in you are most likely going to see a dip and then prices go up again(Australia is expecting a rise in 2020 after a 10% dip)

like it or not Vancouver is a destination city, very few people say im moving to Vancouver for the better job opportunities, they come here for the environment and scenery

just like when everyone goes to Hawaii to vacation and wishes to buy a Apartment/House to Vacation on in the Summer

does anyone think about the Locals making your bed or your alcoholic drinks at the bar, or driving you in the taxi to and from the airport?

do we wonder how they can afford a home on a waiters salary?

In the future it will be Indians, SE Asians and Africans, and im sure people will find reasons to complain about their investment as we do with the Chinese investments

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"and im sure people will find reasons to complain about their investment as we do with the Chinese investments"

You're ignoring why people were upset with the "Chinese investments".

In the future lots of people will want to come to Canada to escape global environmental problems and the political and social problems that will come with those.

That has nothing to do with money laundering and satellite families.

well why are you complaining? money laundering? it is a small percentage of that investment in our Real Estate and I doubt we will be able to get rid of it completely as even more legit money is coming this way anyways

satellite families? at least the money is being made in that country and being sent over here to be spent

now are you complaining that they are not paying income taxes in Canada? when China and Canada have a double taxation treaty?

and that money comes into the country goes into the economy to renovate homes. buy furniture, cars, buy food clothes etc etc

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

Money laundering and speculation by foreign and domestic sources may be a small percentage, we don't know. But, we do know now that after they started cracking down on it, prices began to fall.

Your argument says the opposite, you're saying money laundering and speculation were small things and Vancouver will continue to see lots of immigrants etc, yes, but that doesn't mean prices will rise as we can see.

"satellite families? at least the money is being made in that country and being sent over here to be spent"

At the cost of warping the local market. Money flowing into Canada, or any other country, is not always a good thing. It can upset functioning markets.

"and that money comes into the country goes into the economy to renovate homes. buy furniture, cars, buy food clothes etc etc"

But it doesn't necessarily make up for the money lost to the economy by the people here having to pay a higher percentage of their income in housing or tax money having to go to housing people driven out of the market.

"now are you complaining that they are not paying income taxes in Canada? when China and Canada have a double taxation treaty?"

Are you saying that wealth created in China is taxed in Canada as well? In my reading of the agreement, available online, I don't see that.

How has Canada cracked down on money laundering? were there arrest and trials? last I read charges were dropped in the international Casino ring

and once again more legit money is coming this way, money laundering will still be a small percentage of it... we could get rid of all the laundered money and there still will be even more legit money flowing into this city

money flow into a country is not a good thing? I bet you were complaining about Temporary workers coming here working and sending money back to their country back in the day

see you are arguing from people born here have a right to live here....I am from the view if you cant compete you either get moved out or die out

I am not saying wealth created or money made in China is taxed here in Canada... I am saying money made in China is taxed there but sent here to be spent by satellite families, you seem to have a problem with it,

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"How has Canada cracked down on money laundering? were there arrest and trials?"

There are investigations and rule changes to make it more difficult.

"and once again more legit money is coming this way, money laundering will still be a small percentage of it"

So? Prices are falling anyway.

"money flow into a country is not a good thing? I bet you were complaining about Temporary workers coming here working and sending money back to their country back in the day"

Take some economic courses. Of course money flowing into a country is not always a good thing. It depends on the nature of it and its effect on the domestic economy.

And of course I would oppose TFW's, why wouldn't you?

" if you cant compete you either get moved out or die out"

Gee, and with that attitude its no wonder some want to change the rules and stop immigration. If the message isn't positive, you won't find supporters.

"I am saying money made in China is taxed there but sent here to be spent by satellite families, you seem to have a problem with it,"

Of course, who wouldn't?

if you look at the flow of laundered money? the money to pay the Casino whales recruited from Macau, came from our drug dealing industry, who used the whales to wash their dirty cash, taking their cash in China in return, eventually there is going to be a cap on how much money needs to be laundered unless we all become drug addicts

I took economics courses and I know that money flowing into our country right now???

is helping to prop up our economy, you just want to pretend it dosent as Real Estate accounts for 18% of our BC GDP and 76% of our Canadian wealth

Gee im sorry I hurt your old boomer feelings but that is the truth you are looking for excuses... and that tells me you cant compete

I have no problem with money being made in another country and being sent here to be spent

as we sit on 620 billion in debt

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"and that tells me you cant compete"

This argument should tell you its you who can't compete. You're all over the place, you should change your name to FactsAvoider. Again, everything you say means prices should be rising, they aren't, they're falling. Rather than accept that fact, you pretend the opposite is true. Sounds to me like you can't compete.

"I have no problem with money being made in another sent here to be spent"

And I have no problem with your grammar and spelling, but that doesn't mean they're good.

you are just an old boomer wishing for the same life for your kids you had when you did not pay for it the first time around old timer who cant compete

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

You just keep cashing daddy's cheques and pretending you're "competing" even if you can't even compete in a one to one discussion on the Tyee.

no doubt your kids will be working for this Chinese national detailing his car

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

You're a Chinese national? Not a Canadian?

im Canadian

you complain about my grammar when its clear to see I just type and type (24wpm)and rarely go back to edit until I posted up...

because this isnt English class, and a chat forum for crying out load old timer

plus you have issue with my spelling and grammar?

but have no problem floating the idea that a younger Australian is selling a home to older Australian?

I am preparing my kids for the future you are preparing yours to make excuses

Frank_inBC • 3 years ago

"but have no problem floating the idea that a younger Australian is selling a home to older Australian?"

And you have no evidence for this statement. Why would older Australians be buying houses from younger ones more than the other way around?

Again, use some basic logic.

My kids are fine, its yours I'm worried about. I hope they have good teachers.

"because this isnt English class, and a chat forum for crying out load old timer"

I see, so you could do better but don't bother? That tells me you're just lazy.