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Guest • 2 years ago
Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

I know lots of Democrats, lots of Republicans, lots of Independents, a few Libertarians, a few Green Party people, and none of them want to destroy America. They have different views about how things should be run.

I thought Pelosi and the House Dems attempt to include a free abortion rider on the relief package was unconscionable. (When I practiced law in Birmingham, Alabama, for a while I represented the local Planned Parenthood agency.) Back then, late term abortions were not done nilly willy.

I thought Senate Republicans' attempt to stall passage of the relief package was not in the best interest people who do not have a lot of money to protect them during this ordeal.

The sad, grim fact is, the coronavirus doesn't pick sides, it's after everyone. If that makes divergent viewpoints merge into a common cause rally, good. If the coronavirus results in President Trump ending up kinda like Vladimir Putin ended up in Russia, indefinite president, I'm not in favor of that.

MNIce • 2 years ago

The attempt to slow down action on the relief package was to get rid of some of the more egregious waste stuck into it, and make sure that what gets passed will be effective. That's what the Senate is supposed to do, and it was definitely in the interest of the people. Remember, there will most likely be life after the virus, and we don't want to make too big a mess to clean up then. "Act in haste, repent at leisure."

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

In my first comment, which is toward the end of comments, I asked where the money is coming from for the relief package? U.S. Military budget? Cuts in other federal programs? Loans from, say, China? Treasury Department prints more money?

China seemed a bit slow to react to the virus.

Trump definitely was a bit slow.

MNIce • 2 years ago

The source of the funds is a huge question, and I don't like any of the potential answers.

China wasn't just "a bit slow to react." They were criminally negligent. The Communist government knew about it six weeks before it became public knowledge; that's one of the reasons there is suspicion that the virus escaped from the government laboratory in Wuhan. They not only failed to contain it in a timely manner, when they finally did impose a quarantine, they announced it in Wuhan well before the fact, so hundreds of thousands of people, including infected carriers, fled the city and carried the virus elsewhere.

President Trump acted very quickly to try to keep the virus from coming here from China, as soon as it became known that it was a problem. I recall that his enemies lambasted him for "racism" and "xenophobia" when he banned air travel from China. Unfortunately, because of China's malfeasance, it was probably already too late since the virus could be picked up from other nations. Even so, his measures kept the infection rate down for an extra six weeks - we need only to look at the mess in Iran and Italy to see what we might already have had on the west coast, with its normally high interaction with China. From that time until the national emergency declaration, his administration was very busy working on threat analysis and contingency planning; this is obvious from what they had ready to go when the emergency was declared. There is also the effort to take full advantage of our federalist system. Instead of unconstitutionally locking down everybody in a one-size-fits-all approach, which would be far more devastating to our economy that what we are already experiencing, local officials are being given guidance on how to tailor their responses to the local situations, based on the identified characteristics of the disease.

You should realize that it has been nearly 60 years since we had an epidemic threat of this magnitude and severity; there are very few people alive in this nation who have experience in managing this type of crisis.

It has been over 40 years since we have had any major training of the people in coping with large-scale emergencies other than weather disasters; even the response to 9/11 had barely minimal public training in recognizing and responding to terrorist activity. This is the fault of Congress; according to the Constitution, one of its powers and implied duties is "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, ... reserving to the states respectively ... the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress." The militia in the sense used here is the people (Justice Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution). During the 1950s and early 1960s, Congress mandated the training of the people in dealing with nuclear attack, including fallout protection. With today's possibility of a biological weapon attack, we should now be trained in epidemic response and general national disaster preparation. If we had already had such training and acted on it, I don't think we would have had the absurd run on toilet paper we've seen in the last week.

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

When i read a while back that the China virus causes awful runny noses, I wondered if that publicized symptom had something to do with the run on toilet paper, which is cheaper than Kleenex?

I think the answers to where the funding for the relief will come from should have been made crystal clear by President Trump, Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. That it wasn't done that way, well, perhaps everyone from Trump, Pelosi and McConnel down, who had a hand in it, should catch the virus, for starters, and let the other karmic course of events play out in this lifetime, instead of later.

This morning I wondered if, a la Art of the Deal, President Trump is thinking of declaring America's debts to China will be reduced by America's costs associated with defending against the China virus? This accused lefty, heh, I'm ambidextrous, hopes Trump will do just that, and - wow - the source of funding the China virus relief packages is solved and revealed!

I, too, wonder if the China virus is man-made and got loose? That may never be known. I agree, the virus caught the US. Government woefully unprepared, and the fault for that goes back through several administrations and Trump inherited it - although I did read he got rid of a a department that focused on spotting and dealing with epidemic and pandemic outbreaks. My problem with Trump and the China virus, however, is he really did play down what the media was reporting, and it looks to me the media had it sized up pretty good, and Trump was slow to catch on, and I think he owes the media and apology, instead of rating his response 10 on a scale of 10.

In the big scheme, I think the approach being taken everywhere just might wreck the economic and social fabric of every country where the China virus gets loose . Based on what I'm reading, the virus already has mutated, and will continue mutating. A Bloomberg article quoted several doctors, one of whom said generations of the virus will be around until there is a vaccine, or everyone catches it. If it is mutating, will a vaccine be effective?

I'm 77. Have history of respiratory infections, including pneumonia. Also other medical. My chances of surviving the virus are not good, but I cannot stop going to grocery stores, for example, and given the virus' long incubation period in hosts showing no symptoms, but contagious, it looks like only a matter of time before I contract the virus, despite my social-distancing efforts, which have really altered my life. Lucky for me an internet friend, a retired scientist who voted for Obama and Trump, sent me an article from Patriot Post, to which I responded and the rest, so far, is history unfolding :-).

China virus deaths mostly are in my demographic: sickly, old people. In olden times, such people often left or were abandoned by their tribes for the benefit of the younger and healthy. Keeping up such people today costs a great deal of money. Perhaps letting the virus run its course is, in the long view, the best course of action? I happen to know the soul is eternal and there is an afterlife, and it isn't exactly as all or nothing as some religions hold forth.

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

Just a bit ago received in my email account a link to a Pro Publica article:

Senator dumped stock after reassuring public about coronavirus preparedness
Intelligence Chair Richard Burr’s selloff came around the time he was receiving daily briefings on the health threat.

Verbatim from that article:

~He was one of the authors of the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act, which shapes the nation’s response to public health threats like the coronavirus. Burr’s office did not respond to requests for comment about what sort of briefing materials, if any, on the coronavirus threat Burr may have seen as chair of the intelligence committee before his selling spree.
.
~According to the NPR report, Burr told attendees of the luncheon held at the Capitol Hill Club: “There’s one thing that I can tell you about this: It is much more aggressive in its transmission than anything that we have seen in recent history ... It is probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic.”

~He warned that companies might have to curtail their employees’ travel, that schools could close and that the military might be mobilized to compensate for overwhelmed hospitals.

~The luncheon was organized by the Tar Heel Circle, a club for businesses and organizations in North Carolina that are charged up to $10,000 for membership and are promised “interaction with top leaders and staff from Congress, the administration, and the private sector.”

~Burr’s public comments had been considerably less dire. In a Feb. 7 op-ed that he co-authored with another senator, he assured the public that “the United States today is better prepared than ever before to face emerging public health threats, like the coronavirus.” He wrote, “No matter the outbreak or threat, Congress and the federal government have been vigilant in identifying gaps in its readiness efforts and improving its response capabilities.”

MIKE IN TX • 2 years ago

Hey, Lefty - Odumbass didn't respond to H1N1 at all...

.... and how in the world could Trump grab that indefinite president seat?

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

Replies to my comments here went into my junkmail, which I noticed yesterday and marked them "not junk". I don't see in this thread anything to me from H1N1. I bet there are many million MAGAs who would love to see Trump made president for life, something he himself floated a while back. Declaring America at war against the Chinese virus, invoking the War Powers Act to mobilize Ameriance businesses to manufacture needed medical equipment and supplies, a Republican blow out at the polls this year, I can easily envision a Putin-like scenario in the White House. I do truly hope that scenario does not appeal to you, any American, nor Patriot Post.

Charles D Plorable • 2 years ago

Except in Trumps case the public want his leadership and the country needs it.
Trump should have his term of office extended by the first 4 years stolen from him.

Shonkin • 2 years ago

There's just one problem with suspending the payroll tax: The people who need help most are the ones laid off, who have no paychecks. They would get no help from suspending the SS and Medicare taxes on their $0.00 income.

Susan P • 2 years ago

In KY the wait period for unemployment benefits is being waived so that they can collect that payment immediately. I would expect other states to do something similar. Also, the plan to suspend the payroll tax also includes immediate checks of $1000 sent to those effected.

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

amen, and that's a whole lot of people.

Charles D Plorable • 2 years ago

Perhaps without payroll tax they won't be laid off.

J Bryant • 2 years ago

"However, by far the most sensible way to increase income to working men and women is Trump's proposal to suspend the payroll tax through the end of this year. Here, the administration is angling for some mix of payroll-tax rollback and direct distribution. The president has called for a 0% payroll tax for the next nine months, which would immediately increase take-home pay for tens of millions of American breadwinners."

Love the Patriot Post, Mr. Alexander, but in reference to your statements above, I don't understand how the payroll tax can help those, particularly in the service industry, who are losing their jobs overnight and who are no longer on anyone's payroll. I live in an area that (thus far) has only 3 confirmed cases of the virus. These mostly small businesses cannot remain open when people are being very strongly encouraged to stay at home. They also cannot continue paying their employees when they have no revenue. I am not a small business person, but I know these individuals for the most part do not have sufficient reserves to pay their employees when their businesses are closed. How can the payroll tax rollback help them??

Ticker • 2 years ago

You missed this part: The payroll tax is imposed on employees and businesses (which is to say, on employees), ostensibly to fund Social Security, Medicare, and other government programs — all of which are actually “funded” by treasury IOUs to be repaid by future generations. The PT rate has increased from 4% in 1955 to 15.3% today, almost 400% — now maxing out at $7,960 for a single-earner family. Today, more than 70% of Americans pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes. So it will come from the same place as it has come for years... IOU's . And same place it came from before the withholding tax was an emergency World War II measure implemented as the Current Tax Payment Act of 1943...but never went away.

J Bryant • 2 years ago

No, I read that part as well. But the information as to what the payroll tax is for and by how much it has increased over the years does not apply to my concern. A suspension of the payroll tax does not change the fact that individuals not on a payroll because they have been laid off or their employer has been forced out of business are not receiving a paycheck. As such, a payroll tax suspension does not help them at all...

MNIce • 2 years ago

That's what unemployment compensation is for. Suspension of the payroll tax will help them recover economically after they return to work.

D-az-L • 2 years ago

MNice:
And I heard Chuck Schumer demanding that people receive 100% of their lost income....knowing that would have to be reduced, as it always has been (and should be)....thus creating an opening for the Dem's to sow their deceitful divisiveness and make the pretense of being "for the People!!".

MNIce • 2 years ago

I'd take Senator Schumer somewhat more seriously if he would give up his salary to help pay for it.

One other point: a person on furlough because of the shutdown is not going to have the expense of commuting to work. Schumer's "100%" is not only unrealistic, it's unnecessary.

I hope this leads people to realize they should maintain an emergency cash reserve - that goes a long way towards preventing financial problems when the unexpected happens. That should be $1000 absolute minimum, preferably at least 3-6 months expenses. My experience with motor vehicles is that it's a good idea to add another pile of cash to cover repairs, plus budget some savings every month to cover buying a replacement so you can pay cash instead of making lenders wealthy from your labor.

D-az-L • 2 years ago

MNice:
Sho' nuff!
Dem's nixed the relief package because there was some $400+B in there for businesses (no doubt, to help them meet payroll....which no Dem could comprehend).

Read in, I think< 'Republic': China didn't concoct Wuhan.
It morphed out of bats....who were stressed....due to.............................................Gore-Bull climate change!

As much humor and giggles as they bring into our lives [laughing AT them, not WITH them].....the lying Leftists still should be shot.

MNIce • 2 years ago

The withholding tax is essentially the tax levied by the "Current Tax Payment Act" of 1943. The Supreme Court made that observation in the 1950s, but failed to follow through on it with an injunction. The CTPA was supposed to expire at the cessation of hostilities with Germany, Italy and Japan, or January 1, 1946, whichever came first. The IRS thinks we're still at war with one of those countries, and they never got their 1946 calendars.

J Bryant • 2 years ago

Sorry...meant to say that even though our area has only 3 confirmed cases, people are (appropriately) heeding national/state/local leaders urging them to stay home for the most part. Businesses all over our area are closing as a result, leaving many workers without paychecks. I did not mean to imply that the fact we have only 3 confirmed cases means that we should ignore the guidelines that have been put forth.

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

Read online a little while ago that President Trump, under the War Powers Act, I think, suspended HUD foreclosures and evictions through April, and ordered some U.S. businesses to manufacture goods, such as ventilators, that protect people from the coronavirus.

A major shift from President Trump blaming the Democrats and liberal media for manufacturing a coronavirus-scare hoax, and President Trump ignoring, then discounting the danger, then saying he and America had defeated the virus, then they soon would defeat it, then saying it is a really big problem that might be around a while, and the War Powers Act needs to be invoked.

If the payroll tax is suspended, where's the money coming from to keep going government agencies and services that depend on the payroll tax?

If the coronavirus relief package will cost the advertised $1 trillion, where's that money coming from, and what will not get that money, which now depends on it? I don't see U.S. Military being cut back.

So, will the relief funding be borrowed? If so, from where? China? Or will the Treasury Department print new money?

Just Saying • 2 years ago

Print, baby, print.

TN Patriot • 2 years ago

The payroll tax cut does not help anyone when there are no jobs. Lots of layoffs and furloughs going on throughout the country.

MNIce • 2 years ago

But not everybody is laid off. Many people are able to work from home, and many businesses remain open for at least limited operations.

Unemployment compensation was made to cover the rest.

TN Patriot • 2 years ago

Restaurants and bars have been ordered closed throughout the country and most of these people have no benefits, except unemployment. Most states require two weeks before you can even apply and another 2 weeks to start getting small checks.

The devastation to small businesses and lower middle class employees will be unbelievable. Many of these businesses will never re-open and the millions of jobs they provided will not either.

Just Saying • 2 years ago

I agree. I am a real estate agent, the market is slowing to a halt. And no, I'm not one of the rich ones. I do have some savings, but they'll be gone soon enough. Not sure what's going to happen.

MNIce • 2 years ago

That's why Kentucky is changing its rules to get the UC checks out in one week. The rest of the states should do the same.

It's a bit harder for us independent business operators. I keep a large reserve because I already have an irregular income. I may have to tweak my business model a bit to keep the money coming in, and perhaps take advantage of downtime to do some product development.

I don't foresee "millions" of jobs permanently disappearing unless we have millions of people die. once we get past this, I expect the underlying fundamentals behind the recent employment boom to take effect again.

The greatest difficulty will be had by those with debt payments to make; even though creditors will probably waive late payment fees and perhaps even interest in order to retain the possibility of being repaid, it's still going to be awkward. A reduction in repayments will mean lenders have less ability to make loans; this will slow the restart. Perhaps because of the existing lending issues I mentioned, we will have a more sustainable economic expansion, with less reliance on credit. Debt problems are usually the primary factor behind economic downturns; this one is an exception.

Sloan Bashinsky • 2 years ago

The checks will help for a little while, then what?

I'm fortunate to be old and have some money coming in that gets me by.

What happens to real estate agents and brokers, for example, in a totally busted real estate market, asks this former real estate attorney?

D-az-L • 2 years ago

Sloan:
That's the issue: there are so many individual renditions of the stalled-economy problem....and gov just wants to mail $1,200 to everyone. (and other measures) Unnecessary for some (me)....way too little for others....some will need long-term....some short. I'm aware of priming-the-pump theory of economic recovery....but for too, too many that $1,200 will just go to a bank to make a credit card or mortgage payment. Phttt....gone.

Many will be unaffected, altogether! (some: truckers, medical personnel, retirees, electricians, carpenters, insurance agents, investment counsellors, bakers, food production, shelf stockers, police, tow motor operators, people who will continue to get paid even if they're not working [teachers], and on and on)

One-size-fits-no-one. And millions will be looking for a loop-hole to get what they don't deserve.

A really sticky wicket, this one.

Wait!
Maybe we should ask AOC!! (give everyone a million dollars)
Or Liz! (give everyone 2 million dollars...no!...4!!)
Or Joe!! (what is today, February??)

D-az-L • 2 years ago

MNice:
"I don't foresee "millions" of jobs permanently disappearing unless we have millions of people die."

Or unless the Dem's can find some way to sustain this disaster. It would be a boon to their agenda....absolutely ideal (crush free enterprise...promote poverty)....whether they lose in November or not.
Guarandamnteed: if the Dem's had control right now we would be under martial law....they would get to quell their compulsion to dictate....and elections would be suspended.

MNIce • 2 years ago

Now is a great time to offer a tax credit against payroll taxes for Roth IRA contributions, in exchange for a future reduction in Social Security payments. The stock market is on sale, so mutual funds shares are relatively cheap. This would be a great opportunity for low-income workers to start their retirement savings, if only Congress would let them do it. As I pointed out to my Congressman, an influx of retirement contributions would help to stabilize the stock market.

Jude Ossowski • 2 years ago

If taxes can be cut for a short time and the government can still accomplish its few and ENUMERATED duties, why not make the cuts permanent? Why not cut ALL spending not specifically authorized in the Constitution? End federal funding for things like housing, education, healthcare, the communist welfare state programs, foreign aid absent a clear treaty requiring 100% accountability for every penny, stop bailing out failing non-government corporations, close the failed government agencies.