It’s not like they pleaded for a homeland so they could escape persecution and were granted one but didn’t go there.. or something.

Spot on! You'd think they would be eager to leave this horrible "anti-Semitic" Europe.

The European Jew is intimately known to the European public
but not to us the people of the Middle East. We did not know
the Ashkenazi and he doesn't know us and we never met until
the Ashkenazi arrived masquerading as Israelite. The Ashkenazi
happens to be 100% European according to his own.

Yes. We’ve been over this before. Have a lovely weekend, Helen. 🤗

Thanks, John.

If some people don’t like you, your options are...

a) Try to be more likable
b) Avoid interacting with those who don’t like you.
c) Incessantly complain about not being liked.

Which is the worst approach?

d) come up with hoaxes to make your case appear legitimately dramatic, and then wonder why people dislike you.

"If some people don’t like you, your options are...

a) Try to be more likable
b) Avoid interacting with those who don’t like you.
c) Incessantly complain about not being liked."

a) Are you actually suggesting that Jews could be "likable"? What if (as is the fact) people who hate Jew do not hate them because they're unlikable, but because that WANT to hate them? Today, Jews are most hated where they are almost non-existent (e.g. Eastern Europe, Arab World). Do you know when Jews were most liked? When the world learned that one third of the world's Jews were slaughtered in WWII. Is this your suggestion for being more likable?

b) Uh-huh. And be disliked for lack of assimilation. Isn't that one of your favorite reasons for disliking them?

c) Jews don't complain about not being liked. They complain about being hunted down like prey, and targeted for verbal and physical assault.

Any more suggestions to Jews on how they can make themselves likable to you?

I sense I’m making you upset and that’s not my intention. And I assure you that I don’t wish anyone harm.

Let me give you a recent example of behavior that might lead to resentment. The House committee chairmen at the forefront of Trump’s impeachment were Schiff and Nadler. The three constitutional experts that were called to make the case for impeachment were Noah Feldman, Pamela Karlan, and Michael Gerhardt. Is it wrong to notice these things and form an opinion about them?

But I’m only advocating skepticism, not the mistreatment of anyone.

Joseph: I am a conservative American Jew, a registered Independent, who generally votes Republican. I voted for Trump in 2016, and will do so again in November. One third of America’s 6 million Jews are of a similar political persuasion. Must all Jews be made to suffer demonization because two thirds of Jews are socialists? 70% of American Muslims vote Democrat. 90% of American Blacks vote Democrat. Most American women vote Democrat. The same pattern holds true for Hispanics and Asians. Where is your demonization of Muslims, Blacks, women Hispanics and Asians?

There are 435 members in the House of Representatives. Of these, 27 are Jews (6.2%). 25 (5.7%) are Democrats, and 2 are Republicans. There are 3 Muslim members in the House, all of whom are Democrats. There are 52 Black members in the House, all but 1 are Democrats. There are 101 women members of the House, 88 of whom are Democrats, and 13 of whom are Republicans. Every single Democrat voted to impeach. Where is your wrath toward Muslims, Blacks and Women when, for example, cheerleading Lenna’s war on Jews?

The Speaker of the House (Pelosi), the ringleader of the impeachment effort, without whom there would have been no impeachment effort, is a Christian woman. Where is your hatred of Christians and women?

Schiff, Nadler, Schumer, Engel, and the Jewish impeachment witnesses are pustules of humanity, not because they are Jews but because they are corrupt Democrat politicians who despise Trump and his supporters, and who want to turn America into a third world socialist $hithole. Guess what, the same (and worse) can be said of the 3 Muslims, 51 Blacks, 88 women, and 400+ Christian House Democrats, every last one of whom voted for impeachment. Would the outcome have been different if Schiff and Nadler had been replaced by Omar and Tlaib? Or by Maxine Waters and James Clyburn? Or by Alexandria Orcasio-Cortez and Sylvia Garcia? But the only ones that seem to matter to you are the Jews.

“Is it wrong to notice these things and form an opinion about them?”

Now ask yourself the very same question regarding Muslims, Blacks, Christians and women, not to mention Hispanics and Asians. Why must it always and only be about Jews for you? I’ve read much of your comment history, Joseph, so I know that you’re no fan of Muslims, Christians, Blacks, or any minorities. And that is one reason why your recent cheerleading of Lenna’s antisemitism is so unbecoming and disingenuous. Notwithstanding your antisemitism, Joseph, you seem to be of above average intelligence (way beyond Lenna), so you must certainly know that the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Respectfully, you should be more selective about whom you take sides with. If Lenna had her way, they U.S. wouldn’t just be Judenrein; it would be a Muslim theocracy.

Fair enough, Todd. And I’m flattered that you’ve read so many of my comments.

I’m glad that you noticed I criticize other individuals and groups. I’m not a crazed antisemite who thinks Jews are responsible for all or even most of society’s problems. I only observe that they have vastly disproportionate influence in America and that they usually promote leftist causes. Three of the nine Supreme Court Justices are liberal Jews. Half of the money donated to the Democratic Party comes from Jews. And big Jewish donors to the Republican Party like Sheldon Adelson promote pro-Israel candidates and policies. I’m not anti-Zionist but I want the US to stop supporting Israel financially and militarily.

I don’t agree with Lenna about everything but I find her reasonable and likable. I never noticed her encouraging violence against Jews or Israelis and I wouldn’t support that. I am concerned about the growth of Islam in the US and Europe. That could be curbed by restricting immigration. But, perhaps ironically, many Jewish organizations actually promote Muslim immigration to the West.

Thank you for remaining so measured and civil on this sensitive but important topic.

“Fair enough, Todd.”

LOL. In other words, ‘I hear what you’re saying, Todd, and I don’t refute a word of it, but I’m still going to hate and demonize Jews till the cows come home”.

“I’m glad that you noticed I criticize other individuals and groups.”

Actually, Joseph, I noticed no such thing. What I stated was that “I know that you’re no fan of Muslims, Christians, Blacks, or any other minorities”. I have seen little, if any, criticism of those groups, and certainly NONE of the prolific demonization that you cast upon Jews.

“I’m not a crazed antisemite who thinks Jews are responsible for all or even most of society’s problems. I only observe that they have vastly disproportionate influence in America and that they usually promote leftist causes.”

There are roughly 15 million Jews in the world. Some 6 million of them live in the U.S., where they comprise less than 2% of the U.S. population. A few dozen of those, most notably including Soros, Adelson, Bloomberg, Sussman, Simons, and Marcus are billionaire donors to political parties, roughly equally divided between Democrat and Republican. You may cringe at reading this, but folks like you and Lenna have helped to make Jews as studious, hard-working, and successful as they have become. Given your opinion of Jews, I’ll give you an analogy to which you can relate. When you try to exterminate organisms such as bacteria or roaches (which so many consider Jews to be) over centuries with antibiotics and pesticides, they eventually become heartier and more resistant to those attacks. Similarly, when society seeks to exterminate Jews, as it has for centuries, they compensate for that by excelling in their studies, and becoming successful professionals who, by means of their wealth/influence, cannot be so easily exterminated. It’s a survival mechanism that is (finally) working for Jews. We may be no less hated than we’ve been throughout history, but are infinitely safer, wouldn’t you say?

“I’m not anti-Zionist but I want the US to stop supporting Israel financially and militarily.”

Interesting. Israel is, without a close second, the closest U.S. ally in the entire middle east. It receives ZERO financial aid, and all 3.3 billion dollars per year (essentially pocket change to the U.S.) are in the form of military aid which must be spent in the U.S., creating/maintaining hundreds of thousands of American jobs in the process. The U.S.'s benefits of the U.S.-Israel “Memorandum of Understanding” far outweigh Israel’s benefits, and include intelligence from the world’s leading expert in collecting intelligence on terrorist groups and in counter-terrorism, as well as sharing of technologies used by the U.S. military (e.g. unmanned aerial vehicles, decoys to confuse enemy radar, and reactive armor on Bradley tanks to repel enemy fire). The benefits to the U.S. are almost innumerable, and include access to innovations in medical research, solar energy, water management, IT/cybersecurity, rocket/missile defense, and so much more. I don’t suppose you have a problem with the 1.3 billion dollars in annual military aid to Egypt, or the 350 million dollars in annual military aid to Jordan, from whom we get nothing in return? How about the nearly 10 billion dollars in combined economic aid to Afghanistan and Iraq, both of whom hate the U.S. and provide nothing in return? Yeah, I know… ‘Fair enough, Todd, but I still hate Israel’, right?

“I don’t agree with Lenna about everything but I find her reasonable and likable.”

You have exactly one thing in common with Lenna, Joseph, and that is your mutual hatred of Jews. It’s a shame that you feel the need to lower yourself to her level, being that you are by far the more intelligent. I had to LOL when I read your flattering “I want to congratulate you on making such solid arguments and being forthright yet civil”, when her “solid arguments” consisted of little more than an author's self-retracted book containing a reference to Jewish blood libel; an unsourced, untraceable, anonymously narrated animated youtube video about Jew’s killing babies for their blood; and a link to an article about some unreferenced and clearly fictitious racist Talmudic doctrine from the "unz review" website, a site which describes itself as “A collection of interesting, important, and controversial perspectives largely excluded from the American mainstream media”. THIS is what passes for “solid argument” to you, Joseph? Seriously?

“I am concerned about the growth of Islam in the US and Europe. That could be curbed by restricting immigration. But, perhaps ironically, many Jewish organizations actually promote Muslim immigration to the West.”

It isn’t ‘ironic’ that Jews promote immigration and multiculturalism; as I’ve (painfully) acknowledged before to you, most U.S. Jews are socialists/Marxists. But for you to gratuitously add “Muslim” to immigration is disingenuous. Jews don’t promote Muslim immigration any more than they promote ALL immigration. Furthermore, nearly half of “Christian” America, and ALL of Muslim-America, a hundred million or so people, promote immigration and multiculturalism; why do you labor over the couple of million Jews who do?

I apologize for the length of my comments. I really don't enjoy spending the time and effort to write such 'essays', any more than you enjoy taking the time to read them. I do so because most false libels against Jews, such as "Jews kill babies so that they can drink their blood" or "Jews control the government", cannot be justly responded to with "No they don't". Thank you for YOUR civility, Joseph; something Jewish defenders do not receive from Lenna, whose most civil response seems to be her well-worn "ban" button.

Of course I oppose giving money to Egypt and Jordan and every other nation, for that matter.

I don’t expect or want everyone to agree with me. People have deeply ingrained opinions based on different life experiences. I don’t regard any opinion as illegitimate but some are better supported by facts and logic. I try to hold views that are easier to defend.

I don’t think the relationship the US has with Israel benefits us nearly as much as it costs us. I agree with our founders that we should avoid foreign entanglements. As George Washington eloquently put it in his farewell address:

” nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.”

The point of online discussions isn’t to change the mind of the person you’re engaged with. It’s to persuade undecided third parties reading the exchange and to give support to allies and share ideas with them.

Thanks again. 👍

“People have deeply ingrained opinions based on different life experiences.”

That is certainly true for a lot of things, but just as certainly untrue for antisemitism or other manifestations of bigotry. In fact, antisemitism is mostly based on anything/everything BUT life experiences. It is based on false accusations of deicide, money obsession, subversiveness, and immorality. It is based on envy, lack of self-esteem, and scapegoating. And it is based on nothing, least of all “different life experiences”. It is truly, as the title of Robert Solomon Wistrich’s 1991 book reads, “The Longest Hatred”.

George Washington presided over an economically poor, militarily weak, fledgling republic which was in no good position to take sides in other country’s conflicts. That said, he was no isolationist. Indeed, he readily signed the Franco-American Alliance in 1778, and readily accepted France’s economic and military aid in America’s Revolutionary War against the British. As one of the mightiest and wealthiest countries on the planet today, the U.S. does not have the luxury of such neutrality. American isolationism/neutrality was tried in the early years of WWI and WWII, and was a colossal failure. There is no question that George Washington would be no isolationist today, and would take a dim view of your positions.

Washington, btw, had a great relationship with American Jews, as evidenced by multiple well-documented stories and letters. Following a warm reception at his 1790 visit to the Touro Synagogue in Newport, Washington famously wrote:

“It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my Administration, and fervent wishes for my felicity. May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.”

“The point of online discussions...[is]...to persuade undecided third parties reading the exchange and to give support to allies and share ideas with them.”

Come on, Joseph, I know you’re not that naïve. There are no “undecided third parties” in these Disqus forums, but I totally agree with your sentiment that people’s minds are not subject to change in dialogues such as ours. In my many years of life, I’ve never met a reformed antisemite, and the only reformed atheists I’ve met were on their death beds. Your point in posting may be to give support to, and share ideas with, fellow antisemites via the silly upvoting/downvoting system of Disqus currency. My point in posting (something I wouldn't be doing if not for having an abundance of free time due to COVID-19) is precisely to prove (via verifiable facts, not emotionally-based Jew-hater's groupthink) that antisemitism/antizionism is an irrational and illogical dead end from which no good has ever or will ever come.

Peace out.

Well there you go. You expressed yourself very well and deserve having the last word. Peace out! ✌️

Q) Of all the people you've seen make anti-Semitic comments, how many have admitted to hating Jews?

Not a single one. Bigots never acknowledge their bigotry (though Lenna comes as close as I've ever seen). Virtually ever convicted criminal in prison pleaded guilty to their crime(s).

Perhaps an even better point to make is that NONE of these folks would dare express his/her Jew-hating, holocaust-denying sentiments in public. They do so in the safety of their anonymity. They are cowards.

"Not a single one. Bigots never acknowledge their bigotry"

^^^^ I'm African American. I get a kick out of debating white supremacists. I've observed many times, when a supremacist makes a blatantly racist comment, and I point out their racism, they seem flabbergasted that their anti-black comments could somehow be misconstrued as "racist."

I don't have a problem with people who don't like other races or religions or sexual orientation, etc. "Hate" is a typical human behavior. White supremacists don't have a monopoly on hate. My issue is when someone refuses to accept the truth that their comments express a hate for a certain group. Instead of a supremacist owning the truth of their hatred of blacks, they'll assure me that they have several black pals that they pal around with. And there's no way that their comment involving "the Jews using blacks to destroy American civilization," is an insult to blacks.

I think most supremacists (and people in general) lack the mental toughness, when confronted, to admit they hold racist/hateful views. They fear being ostracized by the tribe. Then there are a small number of supremacists who will proudly take ownership of their comments, no matter what society has to say about them. I can respect this group, even though their views are a direct threat to African Americans.

I have also started to entertain the bizarre possibility that perhaps most people who express racist views are not cognitive of the hate their views express, and genuinely don't see themselves as being biased against other ethnic groups. That theory would explain some of the standard "black friends" replies I hear all the time. Of course, being unaware of one's biases wouldn't excuse one's racist/hateful comments. Though, as all humans are far from perfect, their hate would be forgivable on a certain level. I can forgive a white supremacist for hating me, but I still "carry a big stick," just in case.

I’m offering advice. We keep seeing articles by Jewish writers complaining about antisemitism. They seem totally mystified about its origins. Do they want a constructive dialogue or do they just want to kvetch?
Thanks

Sorry you felt the need to block me. If I’ve said anything factually inaccurate or illogical I welcome correction from all quarters. Being correct is my highest priority and I’m willing to adjust my views as necessary.
Thanks

Heh. He accuses them of not wanting a constructive dialogue, and what do you do?

Throw a hissy fit and block him.

That's hilarious.

If you got kicked out of one bar, then maybe the bartender is an asshole. If you get kicked out of two bars, then maybe both bartenders are assholes.

But if you get kicked out of 109 bars then, you know, maybe it's something you're doing.

"some vile rumors going around"

The New Testament is not a vile rumor, Geoff. It is the Word of God. It is the root of Western Civilization. What does Saint John say about the Jews? What Saint Paul say about the Jews? What does Jesus Christ say about the Jews?

Jews who reject Christ are liars and murderers and children of the devil. They have been cut off from the kingdom, so they oppose the truth, stir up trouble everywhere, and bring down the vengeance of God upon themselves. Try reading the Bible, dear. It's all there.

Summary: Jews are evil because Judaism is evil. That is why Christian Europe's anti-Jewish roots are centuries deep. Because Judaism is evil and anti-Christian.

What kind of rumors?

Like, the rumor that Jews control the media?

Shall I find you a list of the most powerful CEOs in the film industry?

Or what? Rumors that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the United States?

Well, if you click on the name of the woman who wrote this article, you can see all the OTHER articles she's written. Go ahead and do that. Count up the number of articles that have the word "Israel" in the title. Go ahead. I'll wait. Go do that and tell me what you find.

In historical terms, we’ve really not had time to see how that one works out. A severe backlash seems quite possible to me.

So whining about perpetual victimhood is a muscular display of strength?

For all too many Jews, particularly secular Jews, an antisemite isn't one who hates Jews as much as it is any Goyim hated by Jews. What most of these white "antisemites" are guilty of is nothing more than expressing grave misgivings over the way Israelis are treating Palestinians. Since the Israeli position is rationally and morally indefensible, Jews have no alternative but to call those of us with these misgivings silly names. All they are doing is taking the sting out of this word the same as other liberals have taken all the sting out of being called a racist.

This isn't to say that Jews don't face violence. But that violence comes primarily from nonwhite immigrants, particularly Muslims. Of course, the question we must ask is how these hostile aliens managed to get into Europe in the first place since whites fought for centuries to keep Muslims out. While certainly not exclusively a Jewish affair, it is certainly the case that Jews have been ringleaders in European multiculturalist and open borders movements. Even worse, it appears most Jews are implacably opposed to any efforts to reform the immigration disaster that is afflicting Europe and the entire West.

Before anybody can come to the aid of Jews facing real antisemitism, the Jews responsible are going to have to start helping themselves.

You need to stop SHOCK&AWE !

First off, race is very real; it is about where one's ancestors come from, meaning it is about our families. Families are about genetics. Genetics are part of biology. Biology is part of science. Therefore, race is science rather than how we identify. This is why even if liberal critical theory is right about how many nonwhites were killed by whites, whites have killed more whites than nonwhites by several orders of magnitude. We identify by our ethnicity, not our race.

So, in this country we identify as Americans or some species of post-American leftism. Jews have their choice as to which of these groups they identify with, if either. My understanding is that some Jewish groups, like Syrian Jews, tend to be very clannish and refuse to identify with either.

Ancestry is now able to distinguish between the Ashkenazi by source of their ancestry. No country in the Middle East is listed.

European Jewish
Central & Eastern Europe
Lithuania, Latvia & Belarus
Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine & Western Russia
Northeast Poland, Lithuania, Latvia & West Belarus
Western & Central Europe
Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg
Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Moravia
Western Ukraine, Moldova & Eastern Romania

https://support.ancestry.co...

"Respondents were asked whether 'Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in].' Anyone answering 'probably true' views Jews as 'the other.'"

Or, possibly, it's someone who reads articles written by Jewish people, and notices how often they talk about Israel.

For example. Click on Melissa Braunstein's name at the top of this article. Count how many times the titles of her articles contain the word "Israel".

Not all of them are loyal to Israel. Left-wing Jews often harshly criticize Israel. But they are, absolutely and undoubtedly, loyal to other Jews.

An Israeli I know here in New York told me this in so many words:

If a building was on fire and he could only save one person and his choices were saving a friend that wasn’t a jew or a stranger that was a jew he would save the stranger.

That is a non-compatible set of beliefs with mine. A completely different ethos that has to be non-starter when it comes to interpreting ethics in law or being a first responder.

Is this ethos taught at Yeshiva? I don’t know, but it is contrary to the way most Americans think if we’re honest.

Yes, it is taught in Yeshiva:

"Many years ago, one of the most respected Orthodox rabbis of our generation, Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, the chief rabbi of Efrat, told me the following story — and, of course gave me permission to tell it in his name.

He was still living in the United States and was looking for a rosh yeshiva (a dean) for a yeshiva he was starting. When the selection process had narrowed the applicants to 10 highly learned young talmidei chachamim (scholars), he interviewed each of them. First, he had them read and explain a particularly difficult portion of the Talmud. Each one passed that part of the interview handily.

Then he asked them a question: Suppose you ordered an electric shaver from a store owned by non-Jews, and by accident the store sent you two shavers. Would you return the second shaver?

Nine said they would not. One said he would.

What is critical to understand is why they answered the way they did. The nine who would not return the second shaver were not crooks. They explained that halachah (Jewish law) forbade them from returning the other shaver. According to halachah, as they had been taught it, a Jew is forbidden to return a lost item to a non-Jew. "

https://jewishjournal.com/c...

In fact, up through the late middle ages, Talmudic scholars debated whether it was ever acceptable for a Jewish doctor to save the life of a Christian. Basically, it was determined that it would be OK, but only if NOT saving the Christian's life would bring vengeance upon the Jewish community.

Doesn't sound like someone who should be taken as a friend.

Yes, but if you don’t take them as friends are you being anti-Semitic or are you just committing yourself to people willing to commit themselves to you?

Mu. Your basic premise is flawed. Unask the question.

Well, right. There are some Jews who are loyal to no country at all.

That would be a display of pride and white pride is white supremacy and racist by nature according to geniuses like Rachel Maddow.

Right. If I own a house, and you're just renting a room in it, it would be stupid for me to expect you to care about it as much as I do.