Israel will last as long as Wash. extorts money from our wages and supports it. Without the US taxpayer, Israel wouldn't exist, both from its beginning to right now.

In other words, according to you, Israel s/d not exist.

"Wouldn't" and "should not" do not have the same meaning. So its not "in other words" its "let me twist your words"

It is immaterial to the safety, liberty, and prosperity of Americans whether Israel exists or not.

Individual Americans should be free to donate time, money, medical supplies, whatever they wish to either side of that conflict.

Anyone serving in the military of a foreign country or power, though, should lose his US Citizenship and be deported.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the US wasn't strongly pro-Israel until the 1960s, it took a while for the Cold War alignment to happen.

The US recognized Israeli independence almost immediately and was softly allied, but yes true alignment didn't really occur until the late 60's-early 70's. The US was also heavily critical of Israel during the Suez crisis and through much of the 1950's in general.

"The US recognized Israeli independence almost immediately"

Sure. Of course, so did the Soviet Union, which was my point: it wasn't a flash point of political contention until the '60s, when I guess the Soviets decided there was more payoff for them in allying with the bigger Arab nations like Egypt and Syria.

The Soviets did it before the US did. In fact, the USSR was the first country to officially recognize the state of Israel.

right, it didn't become a Right-Left, cold war shibboleth (high five to anyone who gets that biblical allusion) until the '60s.

Hell, take away American support and watch all official sympathy for Israel everywhere evaporate.

Two former Dutch PM's, Lubbers and van Agt, have stated in interviews that they hated the Dutch wrongfull and one-sided pro-Israel position in the Israel-Palestine conflict but that there was no choice, considering the American retaliation if they would change that. Same goes for the EU today as a whole.

Are Russia's good relations with Israel dependent on US support for Israel? I'm not so sure.

I suspect that Russia's relations with Israel are not so much "good" as "respectful", and that in no small part because of Israel's influence in the United States.

Actually, I tend to think it's mainly a matter of the leadership of the two countries having a mutual interest in as many of Russia's Jews moving to Israel as possible. Yet another example of anti-semites and Zionists making use of each other.

I am yet to see any evidence that V.V. Putin or the Russian leadership are anti-Semites.

I think the lack of sympathy for Israel is not that it s the "Goliath" of this story but that it is allowing settlers to live in the Occupied Territories.

So TAC is standing with the Palestinians now I see. Will it stand with those other Davids, the intersectional allies of the BDS crowd too? namely Black Lives Matter, illegal Latino migrants, the LGBTQ+ community, and other assorted SJW types?

Well, the article is more about the danger of a longterm perspective of being seen as Goliath, as I see it. Since LGTBQ's and and other former underdogs are becoming Goliath's too now (read mr. Dreher) , Christians will be Davids (like it should be, after all David is the good guy). So that is good news.

Now buy a sling and start practizing on some SJW-pumpkins. Happy Halloween.

Thanks for the reply, not that I agree with it, but at least you acknowledge the LGBTQ crowd were once underdogs. Sort of like Christians in the Roman Empire until the Christians took over.

Yeah, TAC is turning into Huffington Post.

One not need be as loony-left as the Huffington Post to have sympathy for the Palestinians and/or demand that Israel obey international law. It's not black or white.

Supporting the Palestinians does not intrinsically mean one must, or should, support any of the other groups you cited here.

USS Liberty my dude...

What if we just didn’t take a side? I really don’t give a d*** one way or the other. The Palestinians don’t really merit our support, supporting Israel can only be justified by democratist blather and bad theology; Neither side advances America’s interests, so rather than worrying about which side has the better optics, stay away.

I agree with you, but the millions Israel donates to both the democrats and republicans, money taken from the US taxpayer and funneled to Israel which then uses it to bribe the US government for more money, makes you suggestion an impossibility

We are now in the end times; when it comes to Israel, all is in the hands of the Lord. As the nations of the earth seek to attack and destroy Israel, they fall into ruin: look at the entire Muslim world; look at what's happening to Europe. Most of all, look at the astonishing rise and continued power of Donald Trump, the man who recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Pick your side and accept your fate accordingly.

That attitude is what allowed the Zionists to drag the US into wars. Did you read the article? By destabilizing the Middle East and dissolving states Israel now can't win against non state actors. What is the Biblical basis that Christians need to stand with Israel or else, I'm curious.

I wonder where all those philosemitic Christians were during the Third Reich, especially after Kristallnacht, when many European Jews were desperate to flee the growing Nazi menace and the American State department dragged its feet in approving visas even within the restrictive quotas that prevailed at the time.

A small number of Christians in Europe were pretty busy behind the scenes saving whatever Jewish lives they could. Sadly, the majority of Christians either went along with the path of least resistance or were supportive of antisemitism. And I think that continues on today.

If the United States has a moral hangover as a result of the Holocaust (and maybe it should), that does not justify support of Israel vis-a-vis Palestine, unless you somehow think that Palestinians had some outsized influence over the Nazi-era State Department.

The OT was written by and for a specific race of people. It is explicitly self-aggrandizing, racialist, and aggressive. Why should other groups of people follow another people’s essentially supremacist book as objective or holy? Kinda takes a schmuck to be that gullible.

At least with the OT, that vaunted “biblical basis” means “using the self-serving words of ancient primitive Jewish people to induce non-Jews to do things that are in current Jewish people’s interests.”

Another proponent of the United States of Israel. piss off

The existence of Israel, its motivations, and its policies are strictly secular in nature. After several millennia of "Christian love", Jews have finally realized that our security and continued existence is in our own hands. It is all well and good that evangelical Christians are lending their support, but we recognize that it is not for our benefit, just to further religious interests. I would suggest that you keep your apocalyptic fantasies out of the equation.

"It is all well and good that evangelical Christians are lending their support"

By support you mean the only reason the rest of the world tolerates your child-killing, land-thieving, home-stealing, mosque-and-church destroying evil nature is the 10s of Billions of US taxpayer monies funneled into Israel and the Billions of US taxpayer monies funneled to Arab dictatorships to make them tow the line.

Staying true to your ungrateful greedy thieving parasitic and shifty ways

WOW, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, and it ain't me!

You sir, are a prime example of why we Jews have to fend for ourselves. Somehow you never got over the fact that your Messiah was a Jew, and we didn't buy into your propaganda.

I won't even attempt to set you straight on the misinformation you are spouting like a good little nazi, since I don't think you would recognize a fact if it ran over you with a bus. I will however, refer you to the following information which I am sure you will not read since you would lack the patience to actually look at facts and wouldn't believe anyway since you probably lack the intelligence or will to verify any of the following information:

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000;
that is FOURTEEN MILLION or about 0.02% of the world's population.
They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:

1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1996- Lu RoseIacovino

TOTAL: 129!

Actually, you seem a tad deluded here. Let's deal with some facts:
-Jews having suffered does not mean that Jews have the right to engage in misconduct toward others, which is what has happened in the Zionist unprincipled campaign in Palestine toward Palestinian non-Jews.
-Being at risk does not mean you have some automatic right to a country whereever you choose to have it.
-Even with a 'Jewish state', if other countries of the world choose not to get along with it, the Jews in that 'state' would still be at risk.
-Jewish achievements in various disciplines does not mean Jews have the right to engage in sinful behavior, or demand that people of moral conscience have to support the immoral aspects of Zionism. Germany also has a claim to many luminaries in various disciplines, am I required to support National Socialism because of that?

The Germans were not the recipients of thousands of years worth of discrimination, rape, torture, expulsion and murder. Jews are ethnically from that region and there was not existing Palestinian state in the area that the UN partitioned for them. Self defense is the key here. If the Palestinians would stop trying to annihilate Israel, then Israel might temper its behavior towards them.

Wasn't there once a British Mandate of Palestine in that same area? And even before then, wasn't it part of the Ottoman Empire?

You’re a bigot and a fantasist. What chutzpah to lecture us to accept our fate as if you know what that is. Who could have such A disrespectful, presumptuous, arrogant attitude?

Mr. Groom neglects to mention a few salient facts.

One, Israel is a country of seven million people or so, surrounded by several hundred million implacable foes bent on its destruction. Foes that teach its children that Jews are subhuman ("dogs" is the epithet choice). So, it must remain eternally vigilant or it will be annihilated ("from the river to the sea", to use one phrase used by anti-Semites worldwide). The moment it lets its guard down, Israel is gone.

Two, Israel inarguably shares our values: it is a democracy that, however imperfectly, grants the franchise and other rights to its Palestinian citizens. Its Christian citizens tend not to be beheaded (in the worst case), generally persecuted (typical case), or just slotted into third class citizen / "kafir" status (best case).

Three, let's get real: if the U.S.A. had an enemy on our borders lobbing in missiles periodically, blowing up buses from time-to-time and otherwise massacring our citizens, and calling for our utter destruction, the American people would tolerate that for about 10 seconds.

As they say on NFL Today television program, my response to Mr. Groom's article is: "c'mon, man!"

This is as racist a tirade as they come. If anybody was to generalise and tar "the Jewish population" with 20th of such mud slinging, the outrage would resonate through world media.
Where did you learn such world view? In Israeli school?

And how would the US tolerate the UN unilaterally declaring that Texas through to southern California be given back to Mexico, and ordering everyone now living there out of their houses because the other states should be happy to take them in? That's how Israel was founded.

One, Israel is a country of seven million people or so, surrounded by several hundred million implacable foes bent on its destruction.

Israel became a country by means of war, from the first aliyah to the present day. Zionists treated Arabs like dirt from the moment they got off the boat from Europe, and when the Arabs became wise to their displacement agenda, they responded as any rational people would.

The Irgun and Stern terror organizations wreaked havoc upon Palestinians. The Haganah drove them from their land in the run-up to the '48 war.

If anything, Israel shouldn't be surprised when the chickens come home to roost, but the fact remains that not a single Arab party actually poses a threat to Israel. Hizbullah might be an exception, but even if this is so, it's because of Israel's terrible treatment of the Palestinians, not simply because Hizbullah is "anti-Semitic."

Foes that teach its children that Jews are subhuman

The Talmud itself describes goyim (non-Jews) as subhuman, and such teaching bears influence upon official Israeli policy:

https://ifamericansknew.org...

Israel inarguably shares our values

Israel's "democracy" is a Potemkin facade:

Israel’s Arab citizens fight for a roof over their heads
Israeli city revives historic mission to keep out Arabs
‘Every dark skin in Israel is now a target’
Israeli death penalty for terrorists won’t apply to Jews
Israel’s war on the Arabic language
Jewish Syrian, now a Muslim, not allowed to immigrate to Israel
‘Hundreds of thousands can’t marry in Israel’
The Wanted 18: Israel Blocks Palestinian Filmmaker from Making NYC Film Premiere

Just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

As for Christian Palestinians, they side with their Muslim neighbors:

http://www.middleeasteye.ne...

I've also got plenty of links to Jewish price-tag attacks on Christian monasteries, cemeteries and churches if you're interested. You know ... the news that somehow never debuts on American prime time television?

Three, let's get real

You first.

For your analogy to be precise, the U.S.A. would have to be waging war against Mexico, claiming Mexican territory as its own in contravention of international law, building illegal settlements on that territory, and shooting civilians, bulldozing homes and destroying orchards in furtherance of that territorial theft.

Give it up, already. Your hasbara reached its expiration date quite some time ago and Americans aren't so easily fooled any more.

I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Palestinian maps of the area show no state of Israel at all. Palestinian goals have been and still are articulated to show a strong desire to destroy the state of Israel completely. Palestinian leaders use money donated to them to purchase arms, rather than relieve the ongoing financial and humanitarian crisis in the west bank and gaza. The Palestinians have blatantly rejected every attempt to grant them their own nation as long as Israel is 'allowed' to exist. There is an almost constant barrage of missiles, kites that are on fire, and attempts to to gain entry to Israel with the sole purpose of killing Israelis.

Palestinian children's TV promotes shows that talk of the glories of killing Jews. Palestinians celebrate in the streets whenever news of a Jew being killed is publicized.

These are not the good guys, and historically have spurned any offer of friendship, other than as breathing space to re- arm.

I'm sorry, but this is pure propaganda. it would have worked before internet, but now its just sad

It is difficult to offer a hand of friendship to those who think that you do not have a right to exist.

You have right to exist Alex, the supremacist regime that rules over equal number of non-Jews but only allows vote to few (making sure they have no real political power) has no right to exist in those unlighted times.

Nobody wants your friendship, just obey by international law, not the least the bit where apartheid is a crime against humanity
And yes, yes, we know that that Arabs can work as doctors in Israeli hospitals, (as long as they study medicine abroad at their own expense)

I'm happy to see all the concern about the Palestinians. I would be even happier to see equivalent concern about the Uyghurs, Chechens, Kurds and Tibetans. I guess they don't have the correct oppressor.

in a situation that’s been compared to “living in a cage” by Swedish foreign minister Jan Eliasson

Maybe their Arab brothers bordering "Palestine" should simply let them out of the cage.

Tearing down the walls and allowing Palestinians to simply walk into Egypt and Jordan would be the Nationalistic solution, certainly.

Nationalism is all the rage these days, after all.