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Fran Macadam • 3 years ago

Meanwhile more and more of the Deere product line has its components outsourced and offshored, with the proprietary electronics made in China. John Deere is now an America-hating global corporation with its only American loyalty the dollar, not the country's people who made its elite corporate raiders and job killers rich.

sarsfield • 3 years ago

not sure about Deere/China but bought a motorized lawn edger from big box store and in 2 yrs blew up. Took it to various repair shops - all refused to touch it as was made in china. No parts. Left it on street for scrappers and was gone overnight.

Catapult • 3 years ago

So...there was demand for that thing after all!

Bob Cottle • 3 years ago

Well I can't speak about tractors, but it's the same way with high efficiency furnaces. When we bought our house the furnace in place dated from the 70's. We had it repaired multiple times and parts were always available. But when it did finally die we replaced it with a high efficiency model (10 years ago). Just this last winter we had to have it repaired but there were no replacement parts for this model from the manufacturer. They just stopped making them. So we replaced it again and the technician explained the higher efficiency the model the more it requires specific parts and often those parts are never available from third-parties.

ClayB • 3 years ago

Maybe a president will come along and tax Americans who seek to buy better quality tractors from overseas manufacturers to give John Deere the federal protection it needs to continue this game....

Oh, wait a minute.

Elvis • 3 years ago

My favorite is how Whirlpool, our oh so important company, that convinced the Trump administration to impose tariffs on Samsung washing machines, using the "national security" line, complained afterwards when Trump's tariffs on steel imports were hurting Whirlpool. Everybody likes tariffs on imports when it hurts their competitors and helps your company, yet complain the US government imposes imports on the items you need, to help companies in other industries. A variation of don't tax me, tax the other guy, or the don't cut my benefits, cut the other guy's benefits, or the don't build that power plant or landfill in my backyard, built it in his backyard.

Annie from Alaska • 3 years ago

I'm still a fan of Warren Buffett's "import certificates."

Kent • 3 years ago

+1 for Willie Cade. We need to make sure things are manufactured in a way that make them fixable also. Gluing breakable glass to expensive cell phone screens comes as an example.

Didier • 3 years ago

It is symptomatic of how money and greed have completely corrupted American society. From the military-industrial complex to the the healthcare-induatrial complex to the university-industrial complex, American corporations are all about price-gouging their customers to maximize profits. What a dystopia our society is turning into...

mikeinMarland • 3 years ago

would you consider $15.00 an hour minimum wage price gouging employers or consumers ?

Michigan J. Frogg • 3 years ago

Both.

marku52 • 3 years ago

Just a wage high enough that a full time worker is above the poverty line.

David Gunn • 3 years ago

Um, how do you calculate the poverty line?

Funkengrooven • 3 years ago

What?!? John Deere isn't allowed to make money now? Some capitalists these supposed Conservatives turn out to be.

Sally Burnett • 3 years ago

I always try to buy simple instead of complicated.We have replaced our crapped out 6 year old heat pump with a used,1970s era wood burning stove.

Myron Hudson • 3 years ago

Interesting... my son, a technical writer and/or creative director for various things on line, collaborated a while ago on something related to rebranding by a "major agricultural equipment manufacturer looking to reclaim lost market share". And now I read this. Hmmm.

The other night we were discussing appliance failure with my daughter. Discussion began with a still-working refrigerator from the 40s in a cabin we have access to. We're in a 12-year old house, and on our second refrigerator already. She mentioned a "right to repair" law passed or being passed in Australia. Effectively, manufacturers have to give you something that can be repaired. Planned obsolescence became a thing in the 60s if I recall.

PR Doucette • 3 years ago

This issue is not unique to Deere. As someone who refurbished computers the author of this article should, one would think, understand the increasing complexity of electronics used in all types of vehicles, including tractors, which most users lack the technical skills to repair even if they have spent money to purchase appropriate diagnostic equipment. The answer to this issue is really not about making tractors repairable by farmers but rather how farmer equipment vendors can make "loaners" available so unnecessary downtime is minimized.

Mark Thomason • 3 years ago

Some equipment is too large and specialized for that. Aircraft dealt with this by pulling engines, making an engine switch-out a simpler operation.

We need creative solutions, which I suspect must include a lot more standardization too.

TudorCoupe • 3 years ago

Go price some of the DEERE big ticket machines. Hoooooboy big combines are high 6 figure investments. Smaller machines are still major investments that can exceed the value of the farm.

EliteCommInc. • 3 years ago

I don't know how to solve this issue. I never thought I would here a complaint about Deere equipment, especially one in which Deere engaged in such proprietary products that prevented the owners from either remodeling them to suit a specific need or do a simple repair. One just assumes that farm equipment would never be beholden to the tech industries tactics, but apparently not. It should be unsound customer service and risky but walking away from a 20,000 dollar piece of equipment is hard. Still, how do you force a producer to create a product. It smacks of a violation against ownership itself to demand that a producer also provide the means of repair to the buyer. This goes beyond warranty enforcement, which is a problem as well.

I have been searching for a new lcd for months, but it appears the day of LCD providers is gone. But I feel a tad uncomfortable with the notion that a supplier has to by law provide x, so that do it yourselfers, such as myself can avoid excess expanse. I would support legislation that blocks producers seeking to prevent do it yourself suppliers to provide tools for buyers. I guess it is the age old battle of the generic version verses the name brand. via copywrite and patent laws.

It is not lost on me that the author's grandfather patented his innovations.

I system that should foster alternatives (capitalism) what should occur is a another producer who doesn't make work harder. That is what makes the system robust, I build a product, and some one else produces some aspect that I don't, or can't provide (as readily).

I am huge supporter of the farming industry. And the US is responsible for protecting US farms and farmers.

Aide from independent suppliers, if this is the agreemnet

"That voluntary agreement promised that they would address farmers’ concerns about restrictions on repair, and says that we could get full access to new software tools that would allow us to fix most problems by January 2021.

Then, over the last few months, dealers and manufacturers put on presentations for local farm groups to tout these new tools—for example, a software tool called John Deere Customer Service Advisor, which allows you to do some, but not all, repairs. . . ."

Then certainly a case can be made for breach of promise.

engineerscotty • 3 years ago

Why? What is wrong with "right to repair" laws, assuming you're not a hardcore Libertarian who thinks that any laws regulating corporate conduct are illicit.

Mandating publication of technical specifications and sale of replacement parts (especially for those parts not readily available from third-party suppliers) is not hard.

EliteCommInc. • 3 years ago

I am not sure I was clear. I dully support the right to repair a product you buy. It's yours. I think that warranty service ought to be protected so that sellers don't away with scamming buyers for inferior products. No question, that I support laws that protect another's rights to develop repairs service and product, not wholly produced by sellers, i.e generic work arounds or similar.

But laws that demand that a company reveal its proprietary material or violate their own patent - even to repairs misses the point of ownership. My product, produced, and sold my way. Barring any warranty violations or other similar ban (by any other name) issues/practices, I am unclear the authority to force me to provide repair material beyond warranty. Now it may be sound business to do so, but making a law that forces any manufacturer to do so seems an over reach to me.

Libertarian -- not even a smidge or a smudge. I think the constitution mandates production of US citizens and by extension their livelihoods. But i want to be careful what that means. Currently, corporate entities have nearly completely been in the pockets of business. Something I abhor as the cause of the vast gap between most citizens and the leadership hired to look after their welfare as fair arbiters.

I absolutely oppose the techs intentions to block developers who provide generic add ons, etc to enable buyers to do repairs that's part of how capitalism works. I build a product, someone else may build their own version o components, develop; their own methods or repair. That the tech industry thinks it can block another;s ability to repair the product they now own is a strange practice.

I hope that is clearer. Buyer repair and service -- laugh --

my computers have no cameras, they are at least twenty or more years old. I am not afraid to repair my own stuff. I took on repairing my car despite over reaching. Repairing refrigerators, stoves, lights, home foundations, TVs, cell phones, washers, dryers and adding home foundations to my list ----

the car is probably going to the the better of me, after my accident, it became a risky endeavour -- laugh

absolutely no issues, but a mandate that forces a company to tell me how to do it -- that seems a reach to me.

engineerscotty • 3 years ago

Lots of things are now disposable (you don't fix them, you just throw them away). Part of this is an economy where "stuff is cheap, labor is expensive", in the developing world one finds the opposite circumstances, and many skilled repairmen fixing things that the manufacturer did not depend on being serviceable.

And modern machinery is indeed complicated and computer-controlled, and some manufactures use the presence of software to avail themselves of IP laws in a way to get around various long-standard commercial restrictions on the sale of chattels. "You don't own that software, you only LICENSE it" has long been a staple of the software industry.

In some cases this is defensible on functional grounds. Your glued-together iPhone would be far less rugged and far bigger and heavier if it were built to be user-serviceable--reliable fasteners add space and weight. In other cases, it's clearly profiteering by the manufacturer.

I'll close with a version of Johnny Cash's classic "One Piece at a Time", adopted for the 21st century:

Well I left Ohio back in '99
Moved to Kentucky working on a 'ssembly line
All day long I put fenders on Camry cars
While I can afford one of my own
I don't want to be just another drone
I want a vehicle that's the envy of the stars
One day I came up with a scheme
That would allow me to fulfill my dream
I'd sneak it out of that factory bit by bit
Now getting caught meant getting arrested
But if enough time were invested
I could be the star of the Internet

I'll get it one piece at a time,
And it won't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I pop on your screen
I'm gonna ride around in style
And the video's going viral
The biggest hit that Youtube's ever seen

So the very next day when I clocked in
With my big backpack and with help from my friends
I left that day with a backpack full of parts
I've never considered myself a crook
But Toyota wouldn't miss it from their books
Especially if I took 'em from the refuse carts.
The first day I got me a steering wheel
And then a computer and all the seals
Then I got me a warmer for the seats
We had to do it with utmost care
'Cause security had cameras everywhere
But we found a path where we could be discreet

Now, up to now my plan went a-OK
'Til we tried to put it all together one day
And that's when we noticed that something was just not right
The computer wouldn't boot up, we did find
Because the firmware wasn't digitally signed
And the only thing that came on was the "check engine" light
So we hired a nerd from the local state U
And told him to see what he could do
We said just jailbreak it like a phone
He told us that this is a lot harder
As he re-flashed the EEPROMs in the starter
And he faked out the sensors so the computer wouldn't moan
Finally he got that motor to start
It ran rougher than a badger and smelled like a fart
And the dashboard it lit up like a Christmas tree
Now the tranny wouldn't shift past second gear
But my girlfriend told me to have no fear
And we put it on my channel for all the world to see
It got a dozen likes, mostly from my buddies
And a couple hundred comments about how to make money
But it was mostly ignored, except by you know who
Toyota they sued us, not for stealing their equipment,
Instead the judge said copyright infringement
Apparently we did what you need a license to do

I got it one piece at a time,
And it won't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I pop on your screen
I'm gonna ride around in style
And the video's going viral
The biggest hit that Youtube's ever seen
eddie parolini • 3 years ago

The operator's manual for my Honda CR-V is hundreds of pages long. I'd be surprised if I know of 25% of all the super-duper highest of high tech computerized features the car has.

Jay Matt • 3 years ago

Creating an overcomplicated piece of trash. I bought a 2019 Honda, and it's my last. This, following a half dozen honda/acura purchases.

Mark Thomason • 3 years ago

Computerized engine controls do have these effects, and it is for all modern motor driven vehicles, to include aircraft too. It has vastly improved engine reliability and fuel economy.

It is correct to make this complaint about maintenance issues. It is unfair though to single out Deere for it. It is inherent in this stage of the tech.

The aircraft generation of jet engines and their aircraft that came out of the 1950's was also maintenance intensive. One of the major design goals for aircraft in the generation of the F-18 was to make them maintenance-friendly, to drastically reduce the hours needed to do most tasks. It improved aircraft availability many fold. That carried over to civilian aircraft too, so that modern airlines can run schedules that older aircraft could never have flown.

We can and need to now do the same for computer engine controls. We can make them maintenance friendly. It starts with admitting the raw truth that they are not now.

At the start of the 20th Century, the fasteners used by one manufacturer would not fit things from anybody else. Standardization swept most American industry, for plugs and fasteners and much else. It made things user friendly, maintenance friendly. As Underwriter Labs showed us, it also made them safer. Re-inventing the wheel many times is inherently risky, so just do it once.

Megan S • 3 years ago

Right to repair is a huge issue that nobody seems to be paying attention to. Planned obsolescence is one thing, but planned obsolescence and making it impossible to fix broken junk anyway is too far. It's pure rent-seeking.

garedawg • 3 years ago

Caterpillar, anyone?

TotoCatcher • 3 years ago

Farmers demand free trade deals that DESTROYED the working class family in America. (Remember it was farmers who also supported slavery.) And farmers demand mass immigration to keep wages down for farm labor. And farmers get massive subsidies and regulations that require us to BURN food in our gas.
There is nothing free market about farming. And farmers are scumbags who supported slavery, and today support China, support illegals and mass immigration, and support corporate welfare.
So I really don't give a care about them. And if you care about these scumbag farmers then you're just as bad. Farmers HATE America.

mikeinMarland • 3 years ago

I am going to assume you are a city boy who has never had anything to do with agriculture or animal husbandry and have obtained all your information from second and third hand sources .
Whole lot of opinion , with no knowledge of the subject .

What is all the babble about slavery ? Are you talking about centuries past in America ?
Good news is that ended couple centuries back in the United States.
If you are buying imported anything from China , Africa or Middle East , then you are supporting slavery .

EliteCommInc. • 3 years ago

I would note this exception - the use of illegal immigrant labor

and no I agree agribusiness and agriculture are not the only abusers

Sean Whitney • 3 years ago

Well I have noticed that the farm lobby loves the free trade deals that ship their soybeans to China, but also ship the jobs of factory workers there too. But hey, buying a new F350 every year is important.

mikeinMarland • 3 years ago

Have you also noticed the difference between family owned farms and Corporate owned farms ?

Kinda like comparing the country store with a gas pump out front and with a Major oil company .

Jobs are never shipped overseas , Just stop by any port and check the containers for the ones full of jobs .

Individuals , like you and me either start companies or we don't , that is where the jobs are or are not. We buy imported stuff from big retailers or we don't . But hey , When SJW gets on his knees to hate my country that justifies buying cheap sneakers for exorbitant prices made by slave labor.

Not Be Infringed • 3 years ago

Lol.... Your comment? Epic fail my friend....on all fronts. If you learned this from somewhere you had to pay tuition, demand your money back.

trychophoton • 3 years ago

A lot of farmers were upset with Trump because of tariffs on beans.

millard fillmore • 3 years ago

If you don't know the difference between corporate farming and individual family farms,you don't have the knowledge to condemn them.It's Communist agitators that hate America,not the farmers that feed you.History is not that hard to learn.

mikeinMarland • 3 years ago

Law and Regulation aren't required . Don't buy John Deere products, nothing , nada
Buy Tractors by TODAY's reputation not some legacy from years past .
John Deere is not the only manufacturer available .

Market forces operate at the speed of a checkbook , instant results .
legislation can take many years to reach a halfassed compromise.

marku52 • 3 years ago

Sorry, there is no market where there is a monopoly, And that begins to occur when there are only 3 or so large players. At that point, you have no choice.

Catapult • 3 years ago

"Unfortunately, farmers can’t get the computer or software tools they need, and are forced to go to the dealer for service."
All according to plan. For decades, automobile manufacturers have been leading the way to create a dealership dependency. I actually first noticed this in my 1975 BMW R-75 motorcycle, where the tools required to perform anything but the most routine service were only available to dealerships.

1dougster • 3 years ago

My new KTM dirt bike has no factory manuals available. In order to fix a problem, one that requires diagnosis, you must take it to the dealer to read the computer. Then the dealer leaves you in the dark about the fix. " leave it, we will have it back to you in a week". I do admit that the overall performance of this bike is astounding.

Jay Matt • 3 years ago

Can't even change the transmission fluid in my honda or infiniti without a $15,000 computer now. This was a brainless operation just a decade ago, simpler than an oil change. Now a stealership charges $400 for $15 worth of fluid.

no surprise there • 3 years ago

I'm not a cisgender anything. Been under a car many times, including engine rebuilds. I simply don't want to be bothered anymore. Why should I? I have other things to do than change oil/transmission fluid in anything. A computerized engine that goes 300,00 miles is a far better deal than a 1970s one with a carburetor that went 110, 000.

Manualman • 3 years ago

Actually not true at all. YouTube is full of folks who will show you where the drain plug is, the level check plug is, where the fill port is and where to shoot your $25 Harbor Freight infrared thermometer instead of needing the fancy scanner tool to read the onboard temp sensor. It's not how Grandpa did it, but it's not rocket science either.

Jay Matt • 3 years ago

Any correlation between the temperature shown by the $15K Consult II dealer tool, and a $15 infrared thermometer, has not been verified head-to-head. It is nothing more than a guess where to point the thermometer. Or how long to run the engine to bring the fluid up to the proper temp. And how well the outer transmission case responds to temperature increases, compared to a sensor immersed in fluid. And what emissivity the case is, if you want to fine tune the accuracy of your thermometer. Trying to get it as accurate as a dealer tool is impossible, it's just a guess. A new 8, 9, 10 speed transmission is rarely fixed, it is too complicated and is discarded. Try $7-9,000 on for size. The only way for a precise fill, is to take temperature out of the process. Drain the fluid, weigh it, and put back that exact same weight. That means putting a huge pan or kiddie pool under the car to avoid losses, using squeegees to collect virtually every drop, and a good scale. And no distractions to let yourself get confused. That would be a miserable afternoon.(People who just measure the identical -volume- rather than weight are probably not getting it done accurately. At best, they are just hoping the room temperature of the fluid coming out is the same as the new fluid going in.)

TudorCoupe • 3 years ago

As college student I worked at a Deere plant in the seventies. At that time deere guaranteed parts and repair in 24 hours of a breakdown and many times I worked overtime to make it happen. Deere was a great company back then with a great product. And that repair promise was in the farmers field anywhere.

trychophoton • 3 years ago

What the heck happened?

TudorCoupe • 3 years ago

Management.

Manualman • 3 years ago

Three letters, most likely. M B A

Guest • 3 years ago
Guest • 3 years ago