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Vtran • 8 months ago

American citizens Never have adhered to agreements, Cease Fires, Peace Agreements ....Just look at the First Nations

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

It is something of a mystery that this should have escaped Gorbachev, although Cohen does say that Conservatives warned him against going with the flow on this one. He ignored them.
There's an old saying about leopards and never changing their spots. I guess he was as fooled, as many are, that the appalling history of the US was in each case a separate incident, involving and caused by different people, and therefor "it will be different this time." Gorbachev was willing to overlook the horrific evidence of an Anglo West planning to destroy the Russia who had saved their bacon by winning WWII for them; and to destroy her utterly and horrifically. That he could overlook that beggars belief.
It's so essential to get the bigger picture, to read the History of the Nations you are dealing with extensively, to determine how to connect the dots to find the pattern, and to realise that ultimately nations are an aggregate of systems - and a system is far more powerful than most individuals [until you find a rare person who knows how to break the system].
Sadly, it seems that they had fallen for the idea too, that, as V. P. said when Russia abandoned communism, their opponent would "to them hand the sword". i.e. would become partners and equals. That was never going to happen. It also shows us, once again, that all too often political leaders are not well enough educated, not well enough informed and not bright enough, to undertake the job of national leader which they do.
And we are not interested nor thoughtful enough to demand better.

Tommy Jensen • 8 months ago

...And we may not be educated suficient to look through the matter.
Before 1968 in Nordic countries with Sweden had hollistic education systems, making academics able to see the whole picture.

After 1968-70 they changed the education system so the working class could get academic degrees, but separated the disciplines so you only were able to see your part and not the whole picture and leaving out history and roots.
Newspeak was introduced and started.
Its about classes, deliberately leaving the knowledge and whole picture to the elite.

Any hollistic educated who analyse US history should be able to see that you deal with a hypocrite and liar country throughout from start up til today.
When Russia with its excellent education system missed the point in 1990´es I think it maybe more due to their previous suffering and emotional culture, than to actual foolishness as we can see the Russians quickly raised their heads again from the ashes.

John Mason • 8 months ago

Same happened here in Australia Tommy, they lowered the education standard so that anyone can obtain a University Degree under the belief that everyone is entitled to one and not only those best suited. Now one has idiots running corporations and in politics. Getting them out is the problem. I have always expressed concern that those who wish to go into politics and government should present to the Public a full resume as anyone would who is seeking a senior position in a corporation.

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

Very true John.
If you look at the entire system, we see that immense power over the lives of millions of people is given to those who don't have to show any form of qualification for the job; any training; or prior experience, assessment by qualified experience assessors.

In fact, all they have to be able do is to generate money for themselves by making promises to others using taxpayer money; present themselves in a slick, eye catching fashion like an aspiring film actor auditioning for a role; lie; as Vladimir Putin said "make promises better than those of your competitor"; and sell meaningless words better than a used car salesman.

In other words, present themselves to voters as an ignorant, inexperienced psychopathic, criminally fraudulent, snake oil salesman. And then we wonder why that's exactly what we get as our "leaders". !!

John Mason • 8 months ago

Very passionate you are on this subject your profundity is a source of enlightenment Isabella.

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

Thank you John - yes I do feel deeply that as civilisations, we have strayed from so much that is balanced, natural, and optimal for human growth and happiness. We have so much in our cultures that beggars belief in it's stupidity- and as always, the very stupid are too stupid to know that they are very stupid. I see us preening ourselves as the epitome of civilisation, when research into the distant past shows we have had about 3.5 thousand years of slow, non-stop collapse including an arrogant ignorance.
Yet the answers are so close to hand. It's only an understanding of where we have all gone wrong, and a willingness to do what needs to be done to correct it which will stop us falling into the night, I suspect.
Then again, I remember that everything happens in circles, and follows Universal Laws. Maybe we have no course but to follow the natural pattern we have put ourselves on try to learn from it.
Thanks for your kind words John.

Gerry Hiles • 8 months ago

I differ about "culture" Isabella. In civilisations (essentially just meaning "living in cities" - nothing to do with being polite, etc.) we lack a culture ... and society/social existence.
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One thing I valued about a year at UWA was Anthropology 101. I learned, albeit by my own diligence, that Margaret Thatcher was correct, but WRONG for rejoicing in, "There is no society, just individuals pursuing there own self-interest." This finds most extreme expression in the US (no surprize) with the ideology of Libertarianism (though of course there is a spectrum, as usual with humans in most things and few are Libertines). In civilisations we do not have "social problems", we have problems resulting from the absence of society, such that it's fairly rare to know ones neighbours and anything can go on "behind closed doors" - and does.
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A culture (short of becoming Orwellian) is the evolved way of life of a large group of people, paradigmatically tribes. Everyone is involved in whatever means of obtaining sustenance has evolved within an environment over hundreds, or thousands of years, everyone has a very similar life experience to everyone else, everyone is enculturated with evolved mores and everyone believes in some form of explanatory set of facts and myths. "Societies" in civilisations are really just special interest clubs. Even within the RSPCA, for instance, people differ on what constitutes cruelty, e.g. not all condemn live sheep export, but outside of the special interest, in any case, people differ very much, e.g. from Christians to atheists, or whatever.
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There is some risk of idealizing tribal existence and, especially, rural and coal-mining villages, but even they did have far more social cohesion and commonality than anything found in even small towns (you'd know more about the latter than I, though I looked up Betteshangar recently and discovered that it only opened in 1927, so maybe not as close-knit as some?). In any case Margaret Thatcher might just as well have said, "We came. We saw. They died." It is known that many people suffered greatly.
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The sorry plight of Australian Aboriginals and N American Indians speaks volumes about desocialisation and disenculturation. We are "used to it" ... or are we?
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I have been a lifelong socialist, though only really formulating why over the last several years. Primarily it is instinctive, I know (we are a social species after all said and done) and why I identify with Vladimir Vladimirovich ... I'm sure why at least 80% of Russians identify with him, plus millions around the World, even in the US amongst avowed Libertarians I come across (but I bet that they don't know why, pretty much all of them hating "lefties"/commies/socialists).
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Secondarily: In the absence of a natural, evolved means of social and cultural support, it is necessary to develop institutional replacements like child care, schooling, health care, welfare benefits and generally what existed in both the Soviet Union and Western Europe (even the US) until the neoliberal inroads from the late 60s-on. One can argue that some things went too far in the Soviet Union - with state "proxy-worker" ownership of everything - but Vladimir Putin is correct, "He who does not miss the Soviet Union has no soul. He who wants its return has no sense." I am convinced that he is gradually shepherding the return of the best of the Soviet Union. Humanity is the weakest of all species by all measures except intelligence. Either we intelligently cooperate, e.g. the Eurasian and One Road projects, or we perish. We cannot conceivably be tribal again. So ends my incomplete dissertation, or whatever it is?

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

Yes, all this was about the time they introduced the "expert". Prior to that idea, a well educated, intelligent person was held to have a wide ranging education, and to be familiar with many different disciplines. They they got the "expert" idea - a mechanic in my - then - University Department informed me that "expert means, here is x which marks the spot of a drip under pressure" !! :-)
Now we have people who know more and more about less and less until they reach the pinnacle where they know absolutely everything about nothing.
Yes, I think the Russian education got infected by America, and in the struggle to break free of all the other disasters that caused - just to survive as a country and as a people - this is an issue that has had to be put on a back burner. But they are doing fine in spite of it, and I'm sure will find their way back to the best of the Soviet times education.

Vtran • 8 months ago

I still (and know not alone) feel Gorbachev is a Traitor that "sold" the USSR, the People of the USSR for Personal ("friends") gain .... so he knew what would happen !

Remember the people of the USSR wanted to work through the "problems / issues" leaving the USSR intact but Gorbachev decided to GO AGAINST the Wishes of the People / Wishes of the country and allowed the regions to "break free" including denying the right for Crimea to Return to RF (loaned to Ukraine while USSR existed) .... why would you Do that except for your own agenda !

And Where does Gorbachev live .... but in U$ america ... and every time he visits RF he comes with masses of Body Guards

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

That last part is very interesting Vtran - I didn't know he lived in America.
I hadn't caught up with any documentation about his "friends", although there is the comment - with the long/lat given of the area on the documentary "The Unknown Putin" - that Gorbachev sold to US what wasn't his to sell - a huge chunk of sea off the coast of Russia, containing massive amounts of oil deposits!! He did it to get the money to try and defeat Yeltsin!! So, he has a track record, and as the saying goes "he who lies once, lies ten times". The principle holds for everything, as well as lying. I also didn't know that there were grass roots movements of people trying to stop the collapse of the USSR.
Can you recommend any good modern history resource which covers these events please?
I got a lot from that excellent documentary, but as is so often one is left wanting more.
I know Vladimir Putin doesn't like him - not one bit. I could "read" it from the Stone Interviews :-)
I certainly agree with you - that if he did all that, selling out the people of Russia - no way does he deserve to be grouped with them, they aren't "his" people, in that case - then yes, he was a sellout traitor. Should count himself lucky to be alive!!

Vtran • 8 months ago

Isabella,, I will look for a document regarding Gorbachev selling out the people of the USSR .... However my comment is personnel ... all Russians I know, all people of the ex USSR (except those of fanatical Ukraine) speak as One ...The did not at the USSR to break ... their views were "over ridden" !
-
Interesting comment of "selling off which does not belong" reminiscent of Alaska where the Gold supposedly exchange disappeared after the western inspired revolution of 1918 !

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

Joined a small river of disappeared gold from many places Vtran with Libya and Iraq being the latest!!

Vtran • 8 months ago

Новым Годом! [SNO-vim GO-dahm] ...Happy New Year!

Isabella Jones • 8 months ago

Also to you and your Vtran - Happy New Year.

Le Ruse • 8 months ago

Quote: Over 500 treaties were made with American Indian tribes, primarily for land cessations, but 500 treaties were also broken, changed or nullified when it served the government's interests.

Qua Patet Orbis • 8 months ago

White men speak with forked tongue....

Le Ruse • 8 months ago

Like that one ??
http://rs36.pbsrc.com/album...

Or that one ?
http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/album...

Pick anyone ?

Vtran • 8 months ago

Because U$ Americans citizens thought the had "Given away STOLEN Worthless Land" .... and then found that "Worthless Land" contained "Yellow Gold" ...... later more so called "Worthless Land" contained Black Gold and so it went on

Le Ruse • 8 months ago

Yupp...
Like the mineral & natural wealth of Russia, doesn't belong to Russia, but belong to the WORLD (a.k.a. City of London/Wall St) ??
Mad Madeleine Notsobright.

Vtran • 8 months ago

NotsoBright thinks ... no not thinks, categorically states that Murdering Others is Acceptable

Le Ruse • 8 months ago

Of course, they are only Goyim (Cattle)....

Kjell Hasthi • 8 months ago

Who was Christopher Columbus? Any can check it out. My guess as another Vtran.
- What do you see?
- No gold yet?
- Of course there is gold there
It was the same as Europa. War in Indians replaced war on Muslim.

paul • 8 months ago

This a a very unhelpful spin by Cohen. Dugin, addressing the end of the cold war, reports that Brzezinski once told him, "we tricked you." That's what happened. This is what Russians need to think about when speaking with their common law partners.

Alberto • 8 months ago

I have wondered many times how the S Union, a nation with so many brilliant people, could chose someone like Gorbatchev to lead the country.
Reagan and Thatcher did whatever they wanted with him. They achieved all their objectives in dealing with Gorbachev because he was receptive, soft and a puppet. Worst of all, he was a mix of an idiot and naif by believing them.
It was hard to build the S Union, very hard, and Gorbatchev wanted to make a transition from socialism to capitalism in one year. Only an idiot could think like that.
He is the main responsible not only of the demise of the S Union but of the shameful accumulation of wealth in the hands of a bunch of soulless oligarchs whose wealth, to date, remain untouched.
As a communist, I ask myself how could a guy like him lead the S Union. Yeltsin was another calamity but the main responsible of the debacle is Gorbachev.
As a result of his stupidity, not only millions of Soviets encountered poverty and criminality, but he opened the way to the unipolar world. Many invasions took place because the US. did not face any opposition.
North Korea had to rearm itself to protect. Cuba underwent a terrible period.
Gorbachev will go down in the history of Russia and communist from across the world as an idiot, as an irresponsible leader and as a traitor.

mark • 8 months ago

This is very true. Millions died as a result of this colossal stupidity. Tens of millions more suffered appalling misery and destitution. Several countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, have been completely destroyed. These are crimes on a gargantuan scale. And there has been zero accountability.

Alberto • 8 months ago

Right, zero accountability because the S Union was influential on world institutions. Because of "imported liberalism in 365 days" many factories closed (because they were not "modern"), many good engineers became poor, families destroyed, all sorts of gangs emerged, collective property and natural resources went to oligarchs without scruples for a cheap price. And there was no bread in stores.
All thanks to Gorbachev who was in power almost 17 years, a long period in which he succumbed to the sweet-talk of Reagan and Thatcher.

BMWA1 • 8 months ago

Policy of zombirovannost

Le Ruse • 8 months ago

It was done, with "Good Intentions" ??
For the little shitty country ??

Gerry Hiles • 8 months ago

Indeed. He doesn't deserve to be treated with kid gloves, but I daresay that VVP knows better than to inflame the remaining Atlanticists and other fifth columnists. Well maybe, after all things are still pretty fragile. I don't describe myself as a communist anymore. I couldn't think of an apt label for a long while, but then I settled for "rational socialist", in the context that the social destruction of Capitalism (as documented by Marx and others) must be compensated for by state replacements for what was freely, naturally given in communities, such as tribes, e.g. mutual support in caring for children, cooperation in the means of production and communal support in sickness and in bereavement. I note that Vladimir Vladimirovich emphasizes "the social aspect", calls Russia a "social state" and regularly calls people "comrade".

VeeNarian (Yerevan) • 8 months ago

Having lived through the incredible 90s and the end of the Soviet Union, I believe that it was not wrong for Gorbachev to seek partnership with the West. That move brought all of mankind back from the precipice of total extinction.
It was the LYING and deceitful actions of the "superior and civilized" West that betrayed the world and their own interests, just to expand their territory and control, like some mindless plague that knows no morality.
There must be balance in world affairs.
Power corrupts and absolute power has corrupted the US/EU/NATO gang absolutely.
The West's loss is the worlds gain.
Russia will lead the free nations away from the rotten and putrid fate offered by the death merchants of the West.

AM Hants • 8 months ago

I remember those times, but, it was 'Spitting Image' that made the memories. The thought of John Major, still makes my skin crawl.

Nuclear War... https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Schoolboy Cabinet... https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Spitting Image: Gorby & Reagan...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jB...

Spitting Images Gorby and Ronnie Fireside Summit.wmv... https://www.youtube.com/wat...

USSR General Election 1987 : Results and Analysis... https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Krestovan • 8 months ago

Russia cannot seem to be able to lead itself from the cluches of the ooligarks who out send capital Russia desparately needs. If and when Russia cleans up the mess that Gorby, Gelsman, and others made, there will not be any free nations or any hope for peace and freedom in this late stage of mankind's probationary time.

Gerry Hiles • 8 months ago

No wonder we are in deep trouble! How shall I say? Well Stephen Cohen is too pedestrian, to put it mildly. There is nothing I have ever heard him say that I did not know years ago. Wow the NYT and WaPo both publish fake news and omit what isn't convenient ideologically. Go suck eggs granny. Even if large numbers of people in the US now listen to him (which I very much doubt), he's too late by decades and will probably never catch up with the fact that 9/11 was an inside job/CIA/Mossad operation. As for Gorbachev, Yeltsin, US deception, etc., he could have asked me a thing or six back in the 80s when Gorbachev was best buddies with Reagan and Thatcher, it was bleedin' obvious that he was a dupe, though at first I was hopeful for glasnost and perestroika.

Not that I didn't have hopes for the Soviet Union anyway, nor that I didn't understand hanging on to Eastern Europe for too long, because of US betrayal after WW2 ... heck Prof Cohen, since when hasn't Russia been betrayed?. Too late for all those who either couldn't or wouldn't be informed decades ago. Too late for there to be any chance of averting escalation to WW3, unless by more or less luck, such as the US internally imploding like the Soviet Union did but, unlike the Soviet Union's collapse by US design, collapse of its own hubris and Empire over-reach, perhaps. Academics generally do not impress me.
.
Sorry if I have condensed too much, but I daresay some will know what I'm getting at.

John McClain • 8 months ago

As a "well informed American", a retired Marine, and having spent some two decades in research of our "national history", as it relates to the status of the world today, I have to say, I've not deliberately read either paper since I was in third or fourth grade, and then only because we lived in Massachusetts for a couple years.
I spent nine years in Chicago, before entering the Marines, and as a "paper boy", laughed at headlines every day, knowing the lies for what they were, and having "truth" solely because my parents subscribed me to Popular Mechanics and Popular Science, because I'm dyslexic, had problems in school, but am endowed with talent in mechanics and the hard sciences.
Those two magazines spent their pages defining the world of mechanics, moving forward, and the world of science, advancing, and while most facts regarding "our state of our Nation" were indirect, just part of background, when a boy reads such cover to cover, every month dozens of times, for a decade and more, the bits and pieces add up and paint a picture behind the "mechanical issue or science issue", that is easily seen, looking past, and is intrinsically absolutely true, because no part was put up for the purpose of "the big picture", but the big picture naturally emerges, when sufficient bits and pieces of data accumulate, and we add them to what has long been accepted as true, tested and tried.
Having come to understandings by multiple articles on definitive science and engineering, with background bits and pieces coalescing, simply reading headlines were nothing but amusing, and the greatest factor was wondering how adults could believe this trash.
I began with the intent to debunk all the conspiracy theories regarding McCarthy and government, and ended up with the certainty McCarthy was right, he simply named them wrong, they were "Bolsheviks", using socialism and communism for cover, with the full intent of overthrowing our government, and they have continued to this day.
We have become "an empire whose people follow the Emperor, even when he dances around with no clothes, never believing that boy who actually sees.
Semper Fidelis,
John McClain
Vanceboro, NC, USA

AM Hants • 8 months ago

Well said. It is quite refreshing, as I have been upsetting a few of your neighbours over on Info Wars. The activists, who are desperate for a war with Iran, managed to leave Breit Bart for the day and flock to one of the articles. Together with those that have no idea that the US is in a bad way, economically. As I find myself being labelled a Soros paid troll. The standard of debate is quite soul destroying, until you can get somebody, who does not need personal insult to enhance their argument. Which is so liberating.

Socrates207 • 8 months ago

You have to be very naive to trust the American government, it is like to trust Al Capone. No wonder Putin doen's trust them one inch.

zencowboy61 • 8 months ago

GHW Bush king of the pedo's CIA diplomat to china..Look the other way as nuclear material disappears from america to Israel....when we talk of the people that control you and make decisions...look no further.

Kjell Hasthi • 8 months ago

You mean North Korea during Obama presidency?
(one rumor is about Iran being given 5 nukes to be used on Israel. Who they was I don't know)
Uranium One was about supplying Russia, but who knows where it ended. In your world it will of course be "Israel", as we understand from Talmud qoutes or equal junk. "Khazarian mafia" is a reference to the Zionists, not the rabbis.

AM Hants • 8 months ago

Off topic, but, related. A few interesting articles that all merge together.

Putin: Turkey not responsible for drone attack; Russia knows who was
Russian President calls drone attack “provocation” aimed at causing rift between Russia and Turkey... http://theduran.com/putin-t...

WATCH as US denies involvement in drone attack on Russian base in Syria... http://www.fort-russ.com/20...

How does Ukraine, fit into it, bearing in mind that Ukraine is planning similar in Crimea. The same Ukraine that does so well from having the US Bio-weapons factories up and running. Not forgetting that NATO is also setting up a base in Khakov, non-NATO territory and close to the bio-weapons factories. Then you have the mother craft, found hovering around the Russian bases in Syria and her sister working so hard around Crimea.

Remember the Pentagon begging for Russian DNA? Now what was that all about?

Kharkov Is Forcibly Prepared For The Status of a NATO Base (remember Ukraine is a non-NATO nation)...http://www.stalkerzone.org/kharkov...

US Military Bio-labs in Ukraine, Production of Bio-weapons and “Disease Causing Agents”

In 2015, American alternative media outlet InfoWars accused the Pentagon of developing new types of biological weapons in secret military laboratories in Ukraine. The facilities were constructed under the terms of the bilateral agreement signed between the Ministry of Health of Ukraine and the Department of Defense in 2012.
Today thirteen American military bio-labs operate in Ukraine, The International Mass Media Agency reports. They employ only American specialists being entirely funded from the budget of the Department of Defense. Local authorities have pledged not to interfere in their work. These military labs are reported to be mainly involved in the study and production of disease-causing agents of smallpox, anthrax and botulism. The facilities are located in the following Ukrainian cities: Odessa, Vinnytsia, Uzhgorod, Lviv (three), Kharkiv, Kyiv (four), Kherson, Ternopil.

http://theinformer.life/us-...

Russia Says U.S. Expanding Bioweapons Labs in Europe
U.S. denies claim outlined in new Russian strategy
http://freebeacon.com/natio...

AM Hants • 8 months ago

Slightly off topic, but, another story of the West trying to upset Russia. Followed by what came next, which made me seriously laugh. The first article is well worth reading, just for the awe aspect and mega congratulations to the team. The 2nd article, just made me laugh. You gotta love those sanctions. Where there is a will there is a way.

Russia Wins in Arctic After U.S. Fails to Kill Giant Gas Project... https://www.bloomberg.com/n...

What comes next?

HEY TRUMP, LOOK WHO WILL WARM UP THE EAST COAST, GAS FROM MOTHER RUSSIA TO WARM CHILLY BOSTON !... http://nrt24.ru/en/news/hey...

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

AM Hants • 8 months ago

Yamal LNG and container tanks.

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

23 Million Tonnes of LNG From Yamal project
http://nrt24.ru/en/news/hey...

Mia Williams • 8 months ago

President Gorbachev has made clear several times that the agreement reached with the former Soviet Union regarding NATO and the reunification of Germany was specific to the East/West line through Germany. To date Germany and NATO have kept that promise.

What are Russia's rights? Well, Moscow simply has no right to expect that her neighbors do not enjoy the sovereign right to join any alliances each may wish.

Krestovan • 8 months ago

Providing they were sovereign which they are not but under the EU control.

observerBG • 8 months ago

James Baker (and others) told Gorbachev that NATO will not expand to the East so western powers are a bunch liars, that's for sure.

As for sovereign rights, that also depends if the organisation is willing to accept a certain country, not only if the country wants to join it. Germany and France for example blocked Ukraine and Georgia from joining NATO in 2008. Countries are also allowed to join NATO in order to contribute to its security and i'm not sure about the "gain" of taking small countries on the border of the biggest nuclear power. That increases the possibility for arms race and for war between the major powers, that's for sure.

Also it is unclear how "sovereign" these decisions are, since lots of western money was invested in media, NGOs and political leaders and parties in Eastern Europe in order to promote pro-NATO views. US government officials bragged about "investing" 5 billion dollars in Ukraine for that purpose.

So those countries and their politicians were basically bribed, while their population propagandised via foreign sponsored media. This has nothing to do with sovereignity, rather its about interfering in other countries affairs.

Moreover, the US uses loopholes in international law in order to support rebels in various countries, to stage coups and to interefere in democracy and elections, with the aim of changing the politics of the target country, and even balkanising/disintegrating the target country.

Well, if the US can do that, others can too, hence the rebels in Ukraine, who are now preventing the country from joining NATO.

It could be much more simple. An agreement for buffer zone between NATO and Russia, so that peace and stability are secured. Or it could be "my way or the high way" mentality, which of course leads to wars and destabilisation. Which will not be a good thing in the nuclear proliferation era.

Russia wants peace and stability. The US does not. Its entire geopolitical strategy is based on destabilising the rest of the world, so that it remains divided and mired in internal squabbles, and no strong power could arise there. In addition to fueling conflict and selling weapons to both sides while staying out of it. Divide and rule.

The Russian (and Chinese - OBOR) strategy will be to stabilise, unite and interconnect the rest of the world, particularly Eurasia, in order to overthrow the US - the great disruptor. And as of now, they are winning.

Mia Williams • 8 months ago

Personally speaking, I have little choice but to go with what Presidents Gorbachev and Reagan, along with FM Shevardnadze and Secretary Baker, have said on the subject. Not moving NATO troops or equipment one step east of the East/West German line of the time was promised. This happens to fall precisely in line with what German Chancellor Schroeder has said and written as well. The context of the discussions were in the context of Germany, not the whole of Europe.

According to President Gorbachev the collapse of the Soviet Union was not conceivable at that time. Thus, according to Mr. Gorbachev, he never participated in any discussion of Soviet States joining (or not joining) NATO.

Lastly, I reject the popular notion in some circles that all who align themselves with Russia do so out of free will but those who align themselves with the U.S. and the West must be corrupt or coorced. I believe such ideas ring of arrogance and dismissiveness.

observerBG • 8 months ago

This is not what recent US media says on ths topic.

"the collection shows that top officials from the U.S., Germany and the U.K. all
offered assurances to Gorbachev and Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze
that NATO would not expand toward the Russian borders. The documents
make clear that the Western politicians meant no expansion to Eastern
European countries, not just the East German territory."

https://www.bloomberg.com/v...

http://nationalinterest.org...

http://beta.latimes.com/opi...

http://www.theamericanconse...

The context here is about NATO expansion in Eastern Europe, to the east of Germany, whether the new (former soviet) states existed or not.
Large parts of EE were never part of the USSR.

"Lastly, I reject the popular notion in some circles that all who align
themselves with Russia do so out of free will but those who align
themselves with the U.S. and the West must be corrupt or coorced. I
believe such ideas ring of arrogance and dismissiveness."

Thanks for the straw man, but i did not say that.

About this, i will say several things. First, there are no bigger and more sophisticated liars than western elites. They are specialists in hiding and masking their interests behind "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights". The russians are more direct and directly talk about russian interests, economic gains, "the fate of our people in this or that country", etc.

Second, if you look at russian foreign policy docs and statements you will notice that russians embrace multipolarity and significantly lower level of interference in other peoples affairs. Specifically, the russians do not try to impose their "system", or developmental model, or culturo-religious model on other countries. After the fall of communism, Russia no longer believes that it should impose its "model" or "system" on other countries, and it does not believe that such an attempt could work either. So Russia accepts the cultural and developmental differences and diversity in the different countries of the world, and does not try to remake it in its own image, or push for "one size fits all" models. For example Russia does not believe that its own "state capitalism" should be imposed everywhere, the way the US believes that its own neo-liberal capitalism should be imposed everywhere.

In comparison, the West and especially the US is messianic and self-obsessed, with strong belief in its own superiority and maniacal desire to impose its own cultural and economic models on everyone else, whether they like it, or not. It thus believes that it "knows better" than anyone else, and therefore should rule the world "for its own good".

In other words the US interferes everywhere and sees the whole world as its playground and even property, something that it can change or remake the way it sees fit. Its like someone who wants to make decisions instead of you "for your own good", which implies that everyone else is mentally inferior to the US, that the whole world is in custody of the US "parent", who knows "better" than anyone else. It becomes crazed and obsessed if its model and culture are rejected by someone, as if that fatally weakens its confidence in itself.

In comparison, the russians are much more direct that things are about pure interests, and are also not interested in interfering at the level or scope the US does. They do not want to remake Poland, Britain, Korea or Iraq in their own image and are ok with whatever culture or economic model these people have. Russia has several military bases abroad in comparison to 700 bases for the US, and that tells you what is going on. Russia can also interfere sometimes, but for far more practical (and real) reasons, mostly in their neighbours, with the aim of ensuring its own security (anti-terrorism), or for making sure that NATO military can not be deployed en masse near its borders. There can be also some economic interference (gas disputes) or attempts to protect russian minorities abroad. But russian interference does not come close to the level of the US one, or the scope of the US one, and certainly does not include messianic dreams about remaking the whole world in its own image, and Russia definitely does not see the world as its playground. The russian embrace of multipolarity means that Russia accepts that there will be countries with vastly different cultures, economic and developmental models, even very different than the russian one, that there will be many powers, and that Russia can not impose its views on the rest of the planet.

Socrates207 • 8 months ago

The US betrayed Russia? The US can betrayed anybody. Gorbachew was a very naive man, you can't trust the US government.

Nick Maers • 8 months ago

That's another lesson to Russians not to trust USA, NEVER MORE!!!

DIRTY TEXAN • 8 months ago

For those who know what Russians are this is no surprise. A classless herd of sheep lead by a maniacal leader. If you think ISIS or Hitler were bad you should read about Russian history and the atrocities they have perpetrated and continue today.