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Adrian Meredith • 3 years ago

didn't the CV1 have actuators for the rumble? I miss that, i remember being blown away the first time i pulled the bow string in the lab and it genuinely felt like a string tensing up.

Kevin White • 3 years ago

Yes. The Vive wands, the Rift CV1 Touch, and I believe the Index controllers all have LRAs. So do the Nintendo Switch controllers, and the Steam controller, and some higher end smartphones.

The WMR controllers and the newer Oculus controllers use ERMs, as do the PS4 controllers and most older gamepads.

The big advantages of LRAs are:

A) they can vary amplitude and frequency independently and can even, like a speaker, create two or more frequencies simultaneously (you can search for videos of the Steam controllers' LRAs playing tunes) while for ERMs amplitude and frequency are intrinsically the same thing

B) their transient response -- the acceleration and deceleration time -- is many many times quicker for LRAs than for ERMs.

The knock against LRAs was that their amplitude couldn't get as high as ERMs could get, but based on Ben's statements "the LRAs pack a punch" and "there’s so much power behind them that at times it can feel like the controller is actually filled with something that’s jumbling around within its volume," it sounds like these have solved that problem.

Al Ked • 3 years ago

Here's the thing, DualSense isn't actually using LRAs. It's using VCMs. Related, but different tech.

LRAs are inherently narrowband in their frequency response, as they rely on resonant modes to deliver low power vibration. Depending on the make it means one, two or three resonant frequencies. When you hear an LRA playing a tune, it's amplitude modulating the vibration, that's why it sounds so harsh and metallic - hallmarks of modulated content.

VCMs are broadband - you can literally feed them audio and they'll repoduce it as if they were speakers, because that's essentially what they are, sans cones.

The VCMs within the DualSense are absolutely massive, and that's why they can deliver really high amplitude haptics.

Kevin White • 3 years ago

Interesting. Do you have a link where I can read more about VCMs in general, or the DualSense haptics in particular?

Al Ked • 3 years ago

Sadly there isn't much literature about using VCMs for haptics
- they're mostly employed as de facto actuators.

Immersion mentions them here:

https://www.immersion.com/t...

"Linear Resonant Actuators (LRA): These are linear actuators that consist of a mass on a spring and an electromagnet. The electromagnet is alternately charged and discharged, which results in the mass vibrating at a specific frequency. LRAs are extremely power efficient, and this makes them a great choice for mobile phones and other battery-powered devices. Again, Precision Microdrives has a great video showing how LRA’s work.

Voice Coil (VCM): These are basically identical to LRA actuators but also have a broad frequency response. VCMs are commonly found in speakers but can be adapted to create vibration experiences. VCMs typically use more power than LRAs but are also able to produce a much richer and more realistic tactile stimulation."

LRA's are a specialized form of VCMs that exploit resonant modes so it self-oscillates and require much less power. That's why LRAs saw such a wide adoption in smartphones, downside is that it only operates optimally in the resonant frequency and it's limited in size and weight because, as you can imagine, changing those changes the resonant frequency and you go from fine mid to high frequency vibrations to coarse low-frequency.

We don't have the specifics for the DualSense yet, but we've seen one disassembled and it what's inside is definitely not any LRA module I've ever seen. Also, the haptics there were specifically described as voice coils, not as LRAs.

Also, more importantly, we know (and have seen, even) devs piping audio straight through the haptics for the vibration effects - that's how Astro's Playroom is doing it. You can it in Dave Lee's video here:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

That's not something you can do with LRAs without going into modulation.

kontis • 3 years ago

IMU being so good could also be a software thing.
There were some impressive improvements in IMU sensor fusion using neural nets in recent years.

There is a company that even offers positional tracking software using a single IMU (!) just with an advanced algorithm that can better understand and correct drift. Its accuracy is obviously not mocap level, but being able to walk in a building and get to the same place with just an IMU blows my mind.

Jan Ciger • 3 years ago

You don't even need any "magic" neural networks. Frankly, sticking neural nets into everything is more for publishing papers because "AI" is the thing to do (and gets research money thrown at) and you can rather than bringing something new that you could not do before to the table.

Good IMU with good quality sensor triad - magnetometer, gyro and accelerometer and a competent fusion algorithm using either Kalman filter or complementary filters will do the same service. Sensor fusion is an old and well trodden field, IMUs have been used for decades in airplanes and sensor fusion algorithms are well known.

E.g. remember the Oculus DK 1 IMU? That one was nothing special (MPU6050 + external magnetometer) - and yet the orientation tracking was very good because of competent firmware and careful calibration of the device. Or the PNI SpacePoint line of devices, Invensense's MPU9250, Bosch has a good IMU, with the latter three being able to do good sensor-fusion on the chip already, directly giving you orientation quaternions.

If you have decent quality sensors that are not wildly noisy there is no reason for an IMU to drift in orientation - unless the manufacturer skimped and e.g. didn't include a magnetometer (essential for correcting drift in the "yaw" axis). Such as Motion+ on Wiimote - they had to correct drift using the camera in front and when it couldn't see the "SensorBar" it drifted badly).

wheeler • 3 years ago

IMO motion controller haptics are the most important thing missing from VR aside from varifocal. I really hope there is major innovation here. This is an area where the high end may have a lot of leeway to try out some interesting ideas. So much of VR interaction is bottlenecked by the lack of feedback and developers spend a ton of time working around and making compromises for the lack of feedback

Kevin White • 3 years ago

Great article, this whets my appetite more for what I hope is an upcoming (2022?) PSVR2.

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This review makes me want to try it now!

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Walter Sharrow • 3 years ago

Until the day comes that the PS5 gets the PSVR2, the console could juggle and cook gourmet meals; I still wouldn't buy one.

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Jonathan Gagne • 3 years ago

FYI, for 3DoF, there is very little drift on most IMUs. The accelerometers prevent the gyro drift in the roll and tilt axes and that magnetometer prevents drift in the yaw axis. If you have some magnetic interference near by you can get some issues with the magnetometer on the yaw axis, but even with cheap accelerometers and gyros, you're not going to have drift on the row and tilt axis. The drift comes in big for 6DoF, which is why you always need an absolute positioning system to correct the sensor fusion.

Jan Ciger • 3 years ago

Yep. Unless the manufacturer was incompetent/saving money and didn't include a complete sensor triad (e.g. Wiimote Motion+ lacking magnetometer or someone using MPU6050 without an external one) or the sensor uses is terribly bad/noisy (e.g. the MPU9150 had a really poor magnetometer, replaced in MPU9250 with a better one), there is no reason for a 3DoF IMU to drift with a good sensor fusion code.

Gyroscope • 3 years ago

Isn't 3DOF just a gyroscope? Why would there be a drift? Am I missing something?

VR5 • 3 years ago

3dof uses 3 gyros and 3 accelerometers (one for each axis). If you used any device with gyro you should be accustomed to drift. They all do.

They rely on correction to counter the drift. Accelerometers can measure gravitation so that's one source to detect and counter drift around the x and z axis. For the upward axis there's no easy anchor but good algorithms can often predict the drift and counter it that way.

Readings from accelerometers in general are useful to better interpret and utilize gyro readings.

Jan Ciger • 3 years ago

For 3DoF tracking you need the full triad - gyro (for the actual tracking because it is robust/low noise and has rapid response), accelerometer (corrects for drift relative to the gravity vector) and magnetometer (correct for drift relative to the Earth's magnetic field). All of these working all 3 spatial axes - that's why it is sometimes described as "9 axis" (or completely incorrectly as "9 DoF") system.

If you lack one of those 3 sensors, the device will drift unless compensated externally, e.g. as Wiimote Motion+ was doing using the front-facing camera and the "SensorBar".

VR5 • 3 years ago

I also once thought magnetometers are used to correct drift on 3DOF devices but apparently that's rarely the case. It isn't on mobile VR at least. Error correction algorithms help Gear VR to beat PSVR in terms of countering 3DOF drift.

namekuseijin • 3 years ago

in my experience, as hands grip on controllers tightened over extended use, the warmth from the hands seemed to be interfering and causing rotational drifting...

VR5 • 3 years ago

Bluetooth seemed to cause drift on Gear VR sometimes. But mostly not.

PSVR cinema mode is the worst drift offender for me and I don't think the warmth of your head is the reason. Sony recommends to lay the PSVR on a flat surface for a a few minutes and that actually stops drift for a good while (over 30 minutes, sometimes hours) after you do that.

Wii Motion+ which added gyros to the Wiimote also had you lay the controller on a flat surface for calibration before every round in Wii Sport Resort. In Skyward Sword, you frequently had to realign the forward axis by holding down a button as you pointed the Wiimote at the center of the screen.

Gyros aren't 100% precise which causes drift. Both sensor quality and algorithm quality affect how bad that ends up being.

iNCEPTIONAL • 3 years ago

Yeah, I'm really hoping this kind of stuff comes to all future VR controllers.

MosBen • 3 years ago

I wouldn't mind picking up a Playstation, but I won't do it as long as my only realistic option is the standard controllers with their symmetrical sticks.