jockeys who don't ride in the race won't be penalised. if none ride there is no race.

RV has been infiltrated by the woke, progressive and politically correct extremists. The jockeys association should boycott this meeting.

Hi what does woke mean?? Have they been hibernating and just woken up?

You might need to watch Sky News to find out. ;) Seriously, I think it's the new term for "politically correct".

There is this new thing called Google that one can use if unsure of the meaning of a word, comes in handy and can save one from showing one's stupidity

Hi Mr Samson. Probably just showing my age here i am not up on all the latest terms and slang the young ones use these days.

It's actually quite a complex accumulation of relatively recent phenonema usually associated with very "progressive" thinking. For example, over centuries horses have been used as tools or entertainment for the benefit of humans. Of recent times, the morality of this has come more into question, and a greater number of louder voices are appealing for the status of animals in general to be elevated. Of course, especially during the second half of the 20th century this had already been quickly evolving, and with racehorses, we have witnessed vastly improved care, responsibility and accountability. Then the padded whip was introduced more than a decade ago and limited strikes also came along. Now RV are moving even further down the path.... you only need to look back at some of the old pre 2000 race replays to understand it was an extremely different racing senario.
The "woke" brigade believe human moral "awakening" is much too little and much too late, but also stymied by the establishment and big business who benefit the most from the staus quo. They usually apply this much too little, much too late approach to almost every societal dilemma. Further, people who favour more measured, pragmatic outcomes can find themselves labelled by the woke with any one of a long list of "...ist" names according to the particular matter. And like anything else, wokeness can be seen at levels ranging from mild to extreme. But increasingly, also in the new catchcry form "catastrophic".

Thanks Formworks.

very late reply, but can't keep up with every damn thing! Re the whip stance, I've been branded woke, anti racing etc by one side and brutal, animal torturer etc by the other side (honourable exception being Caroline MacDonald, who regrettably seems to have quite Racenet, I really miss her civilised discourses). So if both sides hate me, I must be right!

Hi Grunts, I stumbled upon your responses almost by accident and thank you for taking the time to comment in this increasingly difficult posting environment.

IMO you are right so often that if I ever want to disasgree with you I automatically know I must be wrong!! But as a person who didn't grow up around horses, and probably only marvels at their athletic ability and aesthetic beauty, it is impossible for me to make any informed comment on the whip issue from a welfare viewpoint. However, as a keen long term observer, I do know that the empirical evidence is unequivocal .... a racehorse's life in 2021 is a much better one than it was in 2000 which in turn is probably heaps better than 1960. In a world where almost everything established is coming under intense scrutiny, including human interaction with animals, there can be no doubt that racing administrators have at least attempted to keep up with the broader community standards. Your knowledge of the animal is immense, as is your passion for their welfare, so whatever position you put out there is a position that I deeply respect.

It's another Americanism which the staid, conservative, blinkered lot use to bash people who dare to consider evidence and think for themselves instead of following, like sheep, and preserving the status quo. It doesn't mean that what those who think "outside the square" prescribe is good or effective, but of course, those that feel threatened, instead of engaging in conversation and putting their point of view forward, they use words and terms like "woke", "PC brigade", "leftie" etc to attack people thinking that by trying to be derogatory, they've won the debate/issue.

The term "politically correct" has been hijacked by the same staid, conservative, blinkered lot and those who consider themselves to be superior to others. The term was originally coined to describe the action of being sensitive to others sexuality, colour and/or creed but it is now used by those who still wish to be bigots, racists and supremacists as a derogatory term.

I do not like one little bit, the direction that Racing Victoria is taking with the whip rules but I can also understand the stress that some feel when they watch horses being whipped. That doesn't make me "woke", "politically correct" or a "leftie".

I feel strongly that educating those who don't understand what horse racing entails and why the whip is necessary for the safety of jockeys and as a tool to guide and cajole horses to do their best. To just go completely the other way and ban the whip means suicide for the sport of racing.

It is the same as the realisation now, that getting bashed in the head repeatedly playing Rugby and Aussie Rules leads to permanent brain injury but what is it that we do to rectify that life threatening situation? Make both sports completely non body contact? No; you modify the rules, just as racing should be modifying the whip rules by listening to those little fellas and lasses that ride those 500 kilo plus beasts and, when they've reasoned that cruelty to animals is not on and that cowboys should be drummed out, hire stewards who understand what cruelty is and let them act accordingly.

PS. I forget the term "do-gooder", you know, the term used in a derogatory manner to censure someone when you don't approve of their stance, regardless if their stance is an honourable one or not? Just another word/term that is thrown around by people who don't have the intellectual capacity to mount an argument. The same as "tree hugger" to describe those who understand the absolutely critical necessity of clean air, clean water and clean soil to the existence of human life but who are ridiculed because of it. My National Party voting relative in rural New South Wales is also a "tree hugger".

Well said, Matrice. I don't care for the term "woke" either because I find it a very insulting way to categorise any non-conversative viewpoint or thinking.

While I agree that the term is now often lazily used as means to insult, I disagee that people who are investigative, free thinkers would be considered as woke. If this was the case, out of history, all the great explorers, philosophers, writers and inventors would fit the bill. Conservatives don't want their opponents silenced. They believe that civilisation has successfully evolved in no small part because opposing voices existed. So, the disagreement could not possibly be with free thinking individuals, but rather with the ranting mob who impatiently demand established values and institutions be brought down without due consideration of the consequences. Social media has played no small part here, with untested ideas and theories rapidly taking hold. There is extreme social pressure, especially on youth, to believe that their forefathers acted immorally and therefore many aspects of our way of life must also be immoral. I think the term "woke", if used correctly, describes the rapidly expanding group of uniformed followers, who are blindly ignorant of the toil and so many positives that go to make up our highly evolved civilisation. They are victims of the mantra that only immediate and extreme reaction can possibly repair all the inherited damage. And that voices of oppostion must not be heard.

again, very late response, but this comment of yours deserves to be published on forums with much wider reach than this one

Thank you Matrice.

What nonsense is this .Reform of the whip rules should be done nationally not one body engaging in gimmickry. jockeys should refuse to ride until changes are made properly

Racing Australia are the sole governing body for existing whip rules but Racing Victoria plainly have other ideas and are acting like they are running the show. RV are basically testing the waters with the stand alone trial after RV's initial efforts to race whip free garnered little to no support from industry participants. Make no mistake though, RV's real agenda here is to use this trial as a stepping stone to ban the whip completely, as they have previously stated. Unfortunately, it appears the green element have taken over RV. Ultimately if RV stewards policed the current whip rules through the protest option, whip breaches would all but disappear overnight, and any proposed reform would be unnecessary.

all punter's keep your money in your pocket, they will soon change their mind ,let's start a punter's revolution

I think punters will do that anyway.

Does anyone else think this is going down the same road as the DRS in cricket or the footy....supposedly makes the game better, but has had the exact opposite result? Any jockey that chooses to ride in these events is a mug, but the money will get them in! And I certainly wouldnt consider putting a bet on any race.....have you seen the trots lately; enough to make a punter weep!!

Good move , most jockeys who ride unplaced horses look like they have not got the energy to use a whip .

Spectacular ignorance right there. They're not using the whip because their horses are clearly beaten.

I still like the idea of of a trial. Getting the right information will make this debate alot easier to get to the right result.
I would say its inevitable that whip reduction if not stopped completely will eventually happen so before it does having the right info is the way to go. Problem here is its not a big enough incentive for the top jocks to participate in so I think it will come back with flawed data. The uptake will be interesting including the field sizes.
I can also imagine some real hyperventilating going on over this, be calm its a trial.

Not only hyperventilating, but use of the word 'woke'.

Why bet on races if your horse can’t be urged on with the whip. Ridden horses who didn’t try until the whip was used then they tried and ran on hard

Playing devil's advocate, there's no doubt there are other horses (maybe more horses?) which will try harder if they know there's not going to be any whipping involved. Six of one...

just a thought....if they need to be whipped to win then perhaps they shouldn't have won? Under whip-free, horses that can win without the whip will win, and you will very quickly learn to identify such horses and bet accordingly

What utter rubbish!

It'll be interesting to see how popular this "initiative" is with punters.

Knobs.

What else would you expect from the Peoples Republic where they dictate not only to their people but also to racing participants / their workers. RV obviously haven't thought this one through and have now made it abundantly clear this has nothing to do with animal welfare (not one mention of the horse in the article) but everything to weaken and destroy what was once a thriving and great industry. No way would any jockey agree to ride in such races that could jeopardize their hopes of riding through the upcoming autumn carnivals. Not one official has ever produced any evidence of a padded whip hurting or injuring a horse from a race! Yet they seem to turn a blind eye to soft or suspect rides and in turn hand out soft penalties to jockeys found to have bet in a race. RV and that includes Mr Carpenter are so out of touch with the industry it isn't funny. Continually pushing this agenda will have the opposite effect of what Mr Carpenter said and I quote "whip reform is “essential” for the sport to retain existing audiences and continue to attract new fans and employees of the future". You're living in a parallel world Greg if you think that. The industry is funded by the punter and I can tell you NO serious punter will wager in races where they're NOT getting a fair go. Clearly this is abuse of power and a money making exercise as why would you put any "prizemoney lost" back into the jockey welfare program, when they're already getting a percentage of prizemoney in every race run and when this "rule" is supposedly about animal welfare? Clearly RV have NO idea!

Here we go again! Manawapoi flying the flag for the colony of New South Wales when this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the Government of Victoria.

The irony is that Racing NSW is sitting back, having a look at what Racing Victoria is doing and depending on the success or otherwise, they'll do the same!

Have NSW changed their railway gauges yet?

Manawapoi in a previous carnation was known as LongLivetheKing and he uses exactly the same pathetic non-arguments. eg "if Octagonal hadn't been flogged then he wouldn't have won all those races" - completely ignoring the fact that some other horse(s) would have won those races, and if he followed the form he could have backed those winners. He keeps going on about how no one has ever proved that the whip causes pain to the horse, completely ignoring and failing to respond to all the evidence I and others have presented, and yet HE is the one who wants to retain the whip - shouldn't he be the one to present the evidence that it DOESN'T cause pain? The guy is a joke, not worth arguing with. (That said, I'm a proponent of keeping the whip, both for safety reasons and for getting the most out of a horse. BUT, in a completely different fashion to that which is currently used)

Thanks for you’re input or LACK of it. Once again you play the man and NOT the topic. Just more hot air. Where did YOU or anyone present any evidence on this site re this issue? Please do tell? You’re the joke!

I was merely making the comparison between the vic government and RVL who both seem to think they know better than the our national governing bodies.

@Matrice: see what I mean? You can play the guy like a clapped-out violin.

Now you’re looking for support as you can’t provide any evidence and you don’t know me from a bar of soap nor I do you but I don’t lower myself to your cheap standards as you continue to play the man and NOT the said topic. That’s the true definition of a troll. I pity you!

From what you post, you leave one in no doubt as to the type person you are.

Who is held responsible if a jockey or horse gets injured because they are unable to use the whip for safety reasons?

So you create this series where whip use is more limited. Then the world doesn't stop. An you say see we don't need the whip. I'll make a deal with you Victoria. You limit or eliminate whip/crop use. In exchange, for me not complaining vehemently, you start doing videod,called, documented trials for Maidens and horses off layoffs. How about it? I mean I basically skip your racing because when it comes to maidens and layoff horses , you run an insider's game. We have to take the word of Selectors who maybe saw a jump out. We like this game because we want to make our own judgements. We want documented trials , videoed and called. How about it , can you make this deal? I think many like to keep it an insiders game in Victoria. This is a big gaping hole in the sky/racingsndsports generated form we use across the pacific. But small minded racing circuits don't want out of towners making solid plays on their racing. So needed info is made very very very hard to get. Everybody wants to keep their 'good' firsters or 'good' returning horses a secret. And you can in Victoria.

What a load of rubbish

Riders who can't count to 5 shouldn't take rides, the rest should be fine. For some reason officials are still going to stop short of overturning results when riders breach the rules? Seems strange they'd be so timid on that front.

The jockeys have to boycott the meeting. Make a stand. Apprentices I believe have to ride if instructed to do so.

No surprise this idea comes from the meaningless virtue signalling capital of Australia....Victoria !!

What a joke, Jockeys get done for not riding their mounts out but aren’t allowed to extract that little extra for connections and trainers with a whip that does not hurt the horse in anyway other than persuade the horse to try that inch harder when it counts 🤔

for god sake, wake up to yourself. How the hell do you think the whip "persuades" the horse to try that inch harder?

Alas, but indeed the members of this RV board are all geldings. They no not have any ballistics to resist those meddlers

The jockeys that participate in these races will raked over the coals for not trying.

Why join the discussion if you don’t post the comment

Is there any sport the do-gooders don't want to ruin? IMO cricket and league has been ruined by female commentators lowering their voices and trying to sound like men, and now this. I wish these overpayed sporting officials would just leave things alone. Racing has got on quite well for such a long time without all this nonsense. This is only going to drive people away from the sport much like what has happened to other sports. They killed rugby union with all their woke activist nonsense. Leave horse racing alone.