The Pope will not directly contradict Humane Vitae, but will rather use the moral calculus elaborated in Amoris Laetitia and apply it to contraception. The doctrine will not be touched, but merely turned into a dead letter by the abhorrent new "pastoral practices" of accompaniment and discernment.

The Pope's support of the U.N.'s population control initiatives made such a move inevitable. We have no earthly support remaining. Christ alone is our help, and to Him alone we must look.

I wonder. At some point I believe he will overstep. He obviously thinks he's right and Church teaching is outdated. It is only a matter of time before his ego insists on getting credit for new ideas.

(Certainly Christ alone is our help. I do not wonder about that part of your response.)

That is EXACTLY his (PF) MO. Leave the doctrine and dogma alone and just and make it irrelevant in practice. Very despicable. I agree with a previous remark that will take Divine intervention to straighten it out now.

One thing about pastoral practices is that they must truly be pastoral, as in actions that help one obtain faith in Christ and His Church.

Well, I believe that and you believe that, sure, but what about the very pastors tasked with guiding our everlasting souls to heaven, hmm? They might take some convincing is all I'm saying.

These "pastoral practices" aren't new. It's just that no one has ever complained about them.

I'm complaining and I'm not no one! Look, it's one thing when Father gets it wrong, but pope is a different story entirely. He's the Rock! This is deadly serious stuff.

AMEN

But this has been happening for years with many Bishops etc undermining Humanae Vitae. Bergoglio will just add to it perhaps however bringing the issue into greater focus leading to a real crisis.

Care to guess who said this???? 3. Since “time is greater than space”, I would make it clear that not all discussions of doctrinal, moral or pastoral issues need to be settled by interventions of the magisterium. Unity of teaching and practice is certainly necessary in the Church, but this does not preclude various ways of interpreting some aspects of that teaching or drawing certain consequences from it. This will always be the case as the Spirit guides us towards the entire truth (cf. Jn 16:13), until he leads us fully into the mystery of Christ and enables us to see all things as he does. Each country or region, moreover, can seek solutions better suited to its culture and sensitive to its traditions and local needs. For “cultures are in fact quite diverse and every general principle… needs to be inculturated,if it is to be respected and applied”. ...... Any body??

How about this???? ....." 'The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly mentions these factors: “imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors. In another paragraph, the Catechism refers once again to circumstances which mitigate moral responsibility, and mentions at length “affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability."' Any one??? Who said this????

"as the Spirit guides us towards the entire truth", we already have the entire Truth, through the Gospels and Traditional teaching of the Magisterium.

Manitou?

I thought it was the Iroquois and the Huron. St. Jean de Brebeuf used Manitou as the name for God in the Christmas Carol he wrote for the Hurons to whom he was ministering.

We do not need to guess the author of this gibberish.

That why the Catechism has errors in them and should be corrected.

There are so many sins people do not wish to give up, for these sins make them happy.
So is the nature of the selfish man, which we are all afflicted by.
So many excuses, some more understandable than others, yet, so many reasons to justify holding on to our selfish and sinful desires/ actions.

Yet, what was the purpose of our Lord's greatest Sacrifice of His Son? Redemption!
The love between the Father and Son, has given us the Holy Ghost which been poured into mankind for its redemption. That is our Lord's mercy, his grace.
To allow a person to believe that he or she is incapable of redemption due to habit, fear, duress, etc., lowers mankind to an animalistic state of being, incapable of God's mercy given.

Compassion and understanding are more needed now than ever before, for there are so many wounded, alienated souls, who are fearful and shameful. However, without the love and adoration to our heavenly Father FIRST, one's compassion and understanding can greatly misguide and harm those souls who need the Truth, His Truth, for all mankind.
Great patience is required, great trust in God is necessary, but one must always be faithful to the teachings of Christ, when praying for a poor soul's will to give up its sinful and selfish desire.

We are all poor souls, in need of God's mercy. It is His grace, His Life within each of us, that redeems us. May God give us the patience, in charity to have fidelity to Christ and His teachings, and to impart them upon those who our Lord wills, most effectively by what we do, rather than what we say.

God bless you. Keep the faith.

Dunno, I give up. Can you offer some commentary to go with that quoted text?

It was Pope Francis. (To confirm, copy a few lines of the quoted text and enter them into a search bos.)

Of course, they do not want to leave a single pillar in the Church standing, except the papacy, and even that only for now, while it suits their ends.

How can hardly any cardinals, bishops, or priests are defending the Church? Are they all just a bunch of apathetic wimps? Where is the public correction? What are they waiting for?

That's a question we've been asking ourselves for some time now... what are they waiting for?

I'm beginning to think that Burke and co. never thought it would get this far, that they could submit the dubia and Francis/Bergoglio would respond relatively promptly, or least give them the courtesy of an audience. It looks to me at least as if they didn't plan for the possibility that Francis/Bergoglio would simply blow them off completely, and now they are left wondering how to proceed without looking as if they are trying to initiate a schism.

The schism has been in place for over a year. If the Cardinals are afraid of a schism, that boat left the dock a long time ago.

That Bergoglio has ignored the Dubia is no surprise. If the Cardinals expected him to respond they're not as intelligent as I've always thought. The Dubia are framed in such a way that I knew as soon as I read them the Pope was trapped. He had the choice to admit he is heretic or that Amoris Laetitia is heretic. There was never a possibility he would respond.

We keep hearing there are many Cardinals who support the Dubia and who are concerned about the direction the Pope has taken. If that's true, they are betraying Christ. Sitting on their hands while Bergoglio rips the Church to shreds makes them either accomplices after the fact or co-conspirators.

Francis called their bluff. They apparently don't really have the guts for a public correction.

The problem they find themselves in is this: They meant to correct the Pope, but sent the letter to Francis Bergoglio.

That's actually a very good point...

As men of faith, the men of the Dubia will pray and put their trust in God, the Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit. I'm sure they know they are up against the power of evil in high places at every turn.

Do you mean that the Vicar of Christ, the Holy Father, the successor of St Peter and the Church's guarantee against indefectibilty is also and at the same time a "power of evil"??

Where is that in Church teaching regarding the Papacy?

Maybe, just maybe, Bergoglio is not who you think he is.

I respect the Chair of Peter, the holy office of pope, I want to love our pope, but one would have to be unknowing of the teachings of the Church and of Jesus Christ to not see the ambiguity coming from it today. Or, one might want to change the Church and welcome it, in that case, one might turn a blind eye to what's happening.
The Church is indefectibly protected by Christ himself and will endure until the end of time, a man, the pope, who occupies the Chair of Peter is not indefectible when giving his personal opinions.

His personal opinions must be in accord with the Faith. The act of teaching is one thing, but it is a universal and foundational principle that one must publicly profess the Faith to be considered a member of the Church, according to Pope Pius XII.

"Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed." Mystici Corporis Christi, 22

http://w2.vatican.va/conten...

This is given as a principle with no exceptions. It does not touch upon whether that person is in the hierarchy or laity, i.e. whether they are a part of the teaching Church or the learning Church. If one does not profess the true Faith, he is not included in the membership of the Church, pure and simple.

As far as teaching the Faith is concerned, then ambiguity is its opposite. Ambiguity is the "non-teaching" of the Faith. The Church, the Catholic Church, therefore , does not and cannot teach with ambiguity.

This is for the simple and unalterable reason that the Church was Divinely commissioned to "teach all nations". Any apparent defection from this Commission cannot be the act of the Catholic Church. It must come from some sort of counterfeit, human institution. If we adhere to what the Church has always taught, then this conclusion, however extraordinary and unpleasant, must be the true one.

The venerable P.Pius Xll is right.
The pontiff is a teacher as long as he is in union with teachings of Christ, outside of what is taught by Christ, is his opinion, there can be no other explanation for what he has said that departs from the faith unless he is deliberately trying to change dogma and doctrine through pastoral means by what he said in AL. AL has created confusion that he has been asked to clarify, but hasn't.

As the supreme teacher of the Church, the pope, whose it is to prescribe what is to be believed by all the faithful, and to take measures for the preservation and the propagation of the faith must answer the Dubia and clarify his words to prevent the faithful from confusion and loss of faith.

You are confusing the teaching office of the Papacy with the nature of the Church, and who is considered to be a member of Her. They are two distinct and different things. Heretics are not members of the Church. Not if heteaches heresy, but if he is a heretic.

Is the Catholic response to the Papacy simply to accept what he says when it's something we already know, but when he says a heresy or error, then we reject it? Exactly who, in this strange and unknown scenario, is the Divinely-appointed teacher?

Jesus gives us the faith and His Church to protect the faith and spread the Good News. The Holy Spirit is acting in the Church to bring us to holiness of life and lead the way to salvation.
I understand the nature of the Church.
I reject a voice that teaches another Gospel. PF is teaching error, he chooses error knowing full well the difference, along with other prelates.

Yes, the faithful's response to the papacy is correct to accept his leadership when he teaches truth over and over again. And yes, emphatically reject what is not the truth. We are not robots or numbskulls, we reject a wolf in sheep's clothing. I reject Bergoglio's false religion.

So he's a member of a false religion, but pope of the Catholic Church at the same time. Belonging to a false religion is apostasy. How can an apostate be the head of that which he is not a member?

God reads the heart and He tells us that we will know a person by their fruits. The fruit of Bergoglio is confusion and apostasy. Even a new Gospel put into practice by some bishops in the world directly from the words spoken in AL and directly because they were not clarified by the pope.

The Catholic religion instituted by Christ will endure till the end of time. But these are troubled times and the faith has been hijacked straight from the top.

St Robert Bellarmine said that men are "neither bound nor able to read hearts, but that when we see a heretic, we judge him a heretic, pure and simple."

Works for me.

PF is so cunning like a snake. OMG! He's a Vicar of meek and humble Jesus Christ?

How do you know that Pope Francis blew them off? No one knows what went on privately and Burke, feeling powerless for a change, decided to use the Body of Christ to theaten the Pope and it did not work. Burke had no business taking a private affair to the public and thus divide hopelessly the Body of Christ which is desperately trying to remain a Body. I blame Burke 100% for involving people that have no power to do anything except badmouth the pope, or pick sides. That is what Luther did, DIVIDE THE BODY OF CHRIST.

You may want to take it easy on the Kool-Aid there. We're long past the time for giving Francis/Bergoglio the benefit of the doubt.

Total nonsense. The affair has never been private. Not for a moment. The Pope published heresy in Amoris. From that moment, and forever, the whole affair is public business.

The blame is 100% Bergoglio's.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." Galatians 1:8.

Two plus two equals four.

A Pope publishing heresy is an oxymoron. Otherwise, the whole thing is and always has been bogus. So, do you choose two thousand years of the Catholic Church, or Francis? It's either one or the other.

Burke hasn't had an audience with Pope Francis since November... and he's asked! Even when Francis was busy tearing apart the Order that Burke is patron of, he still couldn't get an audience. This is from the cardinal's own mouth. Nothing private has occurred because the Pope won't let it happen...

You are so totally incorrect! Its Bergoglio that has divided the Body of Christ. He even made a statement to that. Its the same thing with our country. Barak Hussein O. divided our Country and Trumps is trying to do something about it, just like his Eminence R. Cardinal Burke

Please leave American politics out of this discussion, thanks

Haven't you noticed that the MO of these guys is exactly the same? the substance is different, but they use the same playbook.

The first step of this evil agenda is to divide to conquer, later control and destroy the Church.