Both Russia and China are in the rather fortunate position of not having to actually 'win' in any confrontation with the U.S. Its enough to hold America at arms length and simply 'make her bleed'
In this regard they are achieving that in spades.

its still true though, that it would be really good to have Russia on our side. This could be done with a 2 speed Nato, as it should have always been. Russia Ukraine and Georgia could join the 2 speed Nato. The whole Eurasian Union could eventually join. And yes. In that part of the world, Russia would be granted some power and wouldn't have to be dictated to by DC.

Indeed, the West must find a solution with Russia. That means the West must respect Russia's vital, legitimate national interests in Ukraine. Those interests include ensuring that NATO never expands into Ukraine, that the US never attempts to turn Ukraine into a so-called "special military ally," and that the ethnically Russian regions of Ukraine are given the freedom to become autonomous or independent from Kiev.

When the West is ready to make these long-overdue concessions to Russia, then Moscow will be ready to discuss moving closer to America and Europe regarding geopolitical concerns and strategic issues.

The US and its allies made a terrible mistake by trying to penetrate Ukraine at Russia's expense.

Yep. Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin 1 and then Medvedev all tried to settle it with the west.

"pull Moscow back from its embrace of China"

This is the key. It would be a grave mistake for Russia to swallow the bait. I hope Putin has learned his lesson to never trust the West again.

Demands to "resolving the Russo-Ukraine conflict" prior to Russia being readmitted to G8 are pretty laughable because Russia gains nothing in return. Alliance with China brings Russia real benefits. Invitation to G8 is nothing but a trick.

Keys from "Russo-Ukraine conflict" are in Washington. If they order to their puppets in Kiev, it will be solved in one day.

Well, yes and no.
Yes, they started it and they can pull their support and bring what's left of that territory down completely. (Why would they do it I don't know)
But No, it can't be resolved in one day, the permanent damage is done, what are we going to do with that failed state on our borders? It's a problem for decades to come.

It's another question, but the conflict itself can be stopped in one day. Just forbid nazis to shell Donbass and no one shot will be fired since that minute.

Agreed.

“G7 members should use their forum to develop a common policy to press Xi and the People’s Republic of China to respect human rights and international norms.”

I am unsure how the G7 can possibly have any legitimacy without the involvement of China and one-time member Russia—and, more important, when that elite body features leadership that exempts itself from the norms, laws, and rights it claims to practice, defend, and loves to preach to everybody else. It just boggles my mind that the US can dictate terms to both of those absent countries while it continues to bankroll the military occupation of Palestine, gifts war-criminal Israel with all the military equipment and munitions it needs for its regular massacres in Gaza, the planet’s largest open-air prison, and even uses its UN veto to thwart the considered will of the UN Security Council vis-a-vis Israel.

Maybe when Washington and its own private army of vassal states known as NATO can either clean up its act, if that’s even possible—or, better still, step down from its corrupt leadership of the West—diplomacy, reason, and good faith will have a chance to play a role in international affairs.

I wonder whose national interest nowadays serves The National Interest? Definitely not the American people’s national interests as it was understood by President Trump. Day in and day out, post after post, which are published on this site is unpardonable gibberish to be enjoyed by Democratic leaders and their trolls. I’d emigrated to this country 40+ years ago from then Soviet Union and was working all these years for major defense contractors as I did all my life. I’m very well familiar with inner workings in both countries. The mighty USSR was considered to be invincible yet it collapsed because distorted gibberish they’ve presented as information. Now American Fourth Estate in goose steps follow Soviet methods. Just watch everybody how fast my post will disappear from this site.

Reads like the "Economist". Washington's allies, because of pressure from Obama, the wizard, spied on the opposition party's candidate during an election, during the transition, and after the inauguration, fine allies we don't have. I can't think of anything more reprehensible, illegal and irreversible, Obama should be planning a short stay at his new mansion. And I wouldn't listen to our intelligence agencies either because they are fallible and deeply corrupt, WMD and yellow cake anyone?

China had been an unfair trade partner for 30 years. 5:1 trade ratio, central bank currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, 51% ownership foreign joint ventures, restricted import commodities ...

Call Trump whatever name you want but he is the first politician to stick up for the American worker and call it for what it is. A massive transfer of American jobs and dollars to China in return for cheap products. Argue the pro's and con's but the trade imbalance is real.

"China had been an unfair trade partner for 30 years"...

...because all the US companies that relocated have made a veritable MOUNTAIN of money. Sing yer tale of woe to the shareholders and see what they have to say :-D

Trade imbalance? That's how the US economy is DESIGNED to work. The scam works by the US printing money and using it to settle its international obligations. Inflation is avoided by having the global economic demand absorb the printed dollars, and then getting the dollar holders to reinvest back into the US capital markets thereby helping the US fund its debts. The scam works nicely as long as US growth exceeds the accumulation of debt (which it isn't).

The US has been very happy with its China investments for over 30 years,but is now unhappy as its clear that the Chinese are no longer content to be indentured coolies working for US corps. They have their own ideas about where they wish to go, and it doesn't include getting on their knees and accepting the lowly place allotted for them in a US-designed global hegemony.

1. Not ALL US companies have moved to China. In fact it is a rather small number.

2. Companies move to China for mainly two reasons. Access to the billions of people (large corps) and cheap labor and parts (manufacturing subs).
3. The US economy is not designed to consume 5 time more than it produces. Know your economics.
4. The US dollar is the gold standard of international currency. Not bad for a self described scam lol. You can mail all your worthless money to me.

5. I agree with your last paragraph. I would add that the US can also push back in its own self interest. China doesn't need our help. Don't be naive in thinking China doesn't have their own agenda.

1 & 2. Agreed, because many (non-manufacturing) companies can't leverage cheap mass labour into increased profits, but those that have moved has become massively enriched in the process. My point is that "IP theft" allegations are a distortion of the deal these companies have made to trade away their ownership of IP for greatly boosted profits before that IP inevitably loses its value as technology advances and obsolesence degrades their IPs value.
3. The US economy is designed to print money endlessly and export the inflation.
4. Previous "gold standards" were just that - currencies backed by gold and freely convertible. The USD is fiat and its value is only what people agree it has. The USD will remain viable right until the day that markets decide otherwise and this mat well come to pass if the US continues to degrade its currency with endless printing and use the USD as a cudgel to attack nations that displease the Mandarins of Imperial Washington.
5. Of cours eteh Chines ehave their own agenda. They wish to restore the Middle Kingdom and return to a pre-eminant position in their region and the world. Unlike Western nations (including the US) the Chinese didn't paint the world in blood to fuel their rise, so I wish them well in restoring their nation to where it should be, and to assert themselves as an independent power center that can exert checks and balances and a moderating influence on a collective West that has quite frankly lost its way morally and ethically (and spiritually), and which has become a certifiable menace and threat to this planets interests.

Thoughtful response. Seriously. I think we agree on more than we disagree. I just think it is about time we start pushing back and standing up for US interest instead of fortune 100 corporate interest that seem to dominate our trade policy and political influence.

Agree 100%. Many of the problems with current-day USA (at least from the prespective of outsiders looking inwards) is the convergence of big money and politics, and the infection of the body-politic by the groupthink of the Capitalist/Business classes. US government no longer seems to care much for the interests of the people or even the nation as such, and that needs to change.

Democracy is a great principle, and in theory these problems should be solveable by the public recognising the issue and voting in those who have a will to change the system. Unfortunately the fact is that our elites HATE the idea of the general public being empowered as that threatens the very privilege that the elites seek to protect and expand. Our democracy (as in the collective West) is managed democracy where the public are given limited choices, and the elected representatives are disempowered by deep-state structures and a deep-seated institutional machinery of adminsitrative government that is unaccountable and deeply non-democratic. Elected representatives are powerless to change the nature of the Beast or seriously challenge the clandestine power structures and self-interest that control the machinery of government. They can try, but their hands are tied in many respects and they have a limited tenure in which to challenge the beaurecrats and their private backers.

Anyways, I agree with your central premise, but short of economic/financial collapse and implosion of political authority I don't see how the situation can be salvaged. Those who have the system by the short and curlies will do ANYTHING to retain their control and privledge, and they have the power to do what they like and cover-up as they wish.

US is printing dollars (in fact even not printing, just generating computer records), China is providing products for these void papers. Who is in worse position? :-)

Send your worthless money to me. In return I will send you a nice set of Chinese made fridge magnates. By your logic this is a fair trade.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Chinese domestic debt is owned by state-owned banks to state-owned enterprises. Bank profits end up in the governments pocket, and if they wish, the ChiComs can simply write-off losses and break-up or restructure a poorly-performing enterprise. You can't do that with private businesses and banking systems like in the US and the West (where debt is sacrosanct and the creditors have ways of extracting blood from stones and keeping the debt-slave alive while they are drained to the bones).

WHAT RUSSIANS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL (AND ALL RECENT AMERICAN PROPOSALS):
https://youtu.be/JNq-r3b4ARs

Wait a minute... President of a country wich imposes fresh list of sanctions upon Russia (Scripals case) is proposing at the same time it's return to G8? Am I missing something? You lost me, really... Really, I'm literally laughing (I shouldn't) ... Is there a one freaking normal person left in US's high politics? I mean after all scandals, tragedy, comedy, ignorance, childish behavior, dumbness (pure 100% american).... you name it. What's next? You'll send Britney Spears to represent you in negotiations? Hi, I just shaved my head... Nuclear treaty? Whatever man, whatever...

"For instance, the allies could drop plans for North Atlantic Treaty Organization expansion, limit military aid to Kyiv, and end economic sanctions. In return, Russia could abandon support for Donbas rebels in Ukraine, grant Kyiv full navigational access in contested waters, and stop using natural gas as a weapon."

This is wrong on so many levels:
1. The conflict between Ukraine and Russia is just a proxy for the conflict between Russia and the US (West, in general). Without resolving the situation with the West Russia has nothing to gain from this deal so it is DOA.
2. From the point of relationship between Ukraine and Russia, it is not that Russia does not want to have peace with Ukraine. The problem is that Russia does not want Ukraine to exist at all. As Putin just explained to Segal in his pre-election movie, there is no such thing as Ukrainian people, but just one divided Russian. This goes along the generally accepted school of thinking in Russia, that Ukrainian nation, Ukrainian language, etc are artificial creations of the (most often cited) Austrian General Staff, as a tool to control the nationalistic movements in Galitsia in mid-XIX century. This is coupled with stories about Lenin creating Ukraine out of thin air and Khrushchev gifting it Crimea. If you follow this logic, then the very existence of the Ukrainian state, nation and language is illegitimate, and cannot be tolerated.
3. FWIW Russia itself cannot offer anything of value to G7. Economically (especially if you deduct revenue from fossil fuels) Russia is insignificant, politically backward, culturally stagnant, and completely devoid of any value in the science arena. All these stories about Russia aligning itself with China are just that - stories. If anything, in the long run it is the West which is the only hope for Russia to help to keep China at check.

Volo, nobody seriously cares about 'the conflict between Ukraine and Russia' , exactly because you are right,
'it is just a proxy for the conflict between Russia and the US (West, in general)'. You are panicking because Ukraine is about to experience yet another 'kidok' of the century - which btw had happened to her every time your elites believed in your Western destiny, and Western "significance, political forwardness, cultural dynamism" and so on. Mind that that had happened literally 'every time' when the territory that nowadays calls herself Ukraine was about to 'join the West'. Such is the fate of the Borderlands , they are easily divved , traded for favors and so on. Just look again at the map I linked you to in that past discussion, what ever made you believe this time is going to be different? There is always one Yalta or Potsdam , or Helsinki or another. Putting ones eggs into one basket always gets them squashed - and you so deserve it.

illustration of the point #2.

Not really, it is all about biting more than one can chew, really. Galitsia was historically the extent of the entity you now call Ukraine. On other hand, what you really want as Ukraine is Kievan Rus++, where ++ might eventually include not only Crimea but also Kuban, then maybe Vladimir Veliky, Rostov, Smolensk, Novgorod, Pskov, Archangel, Tula and so on, until you run into the lands of the former Golden Horde to the East and Osman Empire to the South. This tune is about as old as the Rzech Pospolita edition 4.5. Your side does not believe that Russia exists either - instead you think of some vague edition of Moscovia in the borders of Moscow oblast - no wonder you get paid with the same coin. The feudal struggle withing the same civilization is as old as the world itself - same as turning to the enemy of your enemy for support, even when it means destruction of your own civilization and culture. The Greek city states turned to Persia in their wars between each other for centuries after Xerxes was beaten by the Spartans. The Milanese invited the French army into Italy to beat Papal troops. What your folks are doing in Ukraine is virtually the same, and history will pay you with the same coin it paid the Dukedom of Milan.

you can be right, you can be wrong, but one thing is clear - those are your words and ideas, not mine, i really do not care what you think, i have nothing to do with these

those are your words and ideas, not mine

He's telling the truth. The pro-Ukrainians and Ukrainians on this board (and others) espouse nonsensical ideas of history that are exactly what dorotea describes.

Right, and it were not you who argued with me that Krasnodar is Ukraine and the folk song group there sings in 'Ukrainian'.

once again, illustration of the #2

So, in order for 'the relationship between Ukraine and Russia ' to be peaceful the Russian side has to admit that her Kuban citizens speak language different from Russian and the same they speak in Galitsia. Fancy that.

Ending occupation of Donbas and return of Crimea would be the first step in the right direction, i guess.

But Donbass and Crimea are not legitimately Ukrainian territories. They are regions populated by ethnic Russian majorities, and those people do not want to be ruled by Kiev.

And that's not even getting into the reality that Donbass and Crimea are historically Russian lands given to Ukraine because of the whims of the communists. Therefore, the two regions should have been returned to Russia in 1991.

illustration of the point #2 in my original post.

Aha, and the second would be returning the gold of kozak Polubotok. You are lucky Putin has not a 0.0001 %% of Ukrainian ancestry in him, unlike most of the rest of us, so he is emotionally cold as a fish when it comes to 'Ukrainian question', as Lenin used to put it. He is content of squeezing the territories for as much citizenry as he can, while letting Russian oligarchy deal with Uki elites the way they see fit. There won't be any major war between RF and Uki ever- unless the id$ot commies or id$ot ultra right come to power in Russia. But until the whole of Ukraine's population will drop below 20 million there won't be any peace either. This is my pessimistic prediction, and I do not have an optimistic one.

i got it, you hate Ukraine, and have all the good reason for it - see #2. This is exactly my point, no need to go over it over and over again.

Opposite of love is not hate but indifference. People who fit your #2 are passionate about the subject, same as Ukies are passionate about Russia. As I said, passions would not be taken into account. As for myself, how can you judge? I have family in Kiev and Kherson, and all over the place. Tis weird to accuse somebody of hating their roots.

Opposite of love is not hate but indifference.
once again, you are 100% entitled to your own opinion, those are your words and ideas, not mine, i really do not care what you think, i have nothing to do with these ideas. You are making circles around #2, try to move on, i've got your point loud and clear.

Once again, it is you who makes verbal circles to enforce your #2, which is utterly your own invention. Ukraine is as legitimate and true nation as Eritrea or South Sudan. I am pretty positive every Ethiopian and Sudanese agrees.

ditto #2

Relax, this was said not to please Ukraine :-) It's just attempt to switch propagandist paradigm from obsolete cliche where "poor Ukraine always suffering from nasty Russia" to something new which allows to make deals with Russia, because US now needs to fight China.
You got it right, Ukraine is not a subject, for Obama it was just a battlefield between US and Russia and now US does not need this battle :-)
But for sure Russia does not wish to be a US zombie against China (like Ukraine was made a zombie of US against Russia)

Divide and conquer. Fooled us once, you’re a genius. Fool us twice...don’t bet on it.

Nice plan, except it's too late. I don't think Russia will agree to this proposal. The West is very antagonized both in Russian elites and common people. Even if some high ranking officials will be happy to struck a deal common people will still perceive USA and the west as enemies. On the contrary China's reputation and karma is not as tainted as America's in the eyes of the majority in Russia. At this point any concession given to West will be met with disdain.

Correct. NATO has thousands of troops on the Russian border and surrounds Western Russia by land and sea ... meanwhile the US preparing new cruise missile programs to be stationed in the EU... Putin would be a fool to play nice in the face of such a military buildup... in fact, he'd be deposed if he tried. No... the die is cast... the Russia-China Alliance is tightly cemented.

I agree, but for a slightly different reason.

One opponent at a time, as much as possible.

As many allies as you can get.

It is just basic good sense.

https://youtu.be/JNq-r3b4ARs

Yeah, those stu..d Russians will never guess how tricky you are :-)))