Micah, I would certainly agree that "everyone in the entire world was imprisoned by the power of death", and that in fact most of them, including most professing Christians I think, are still imprisoned by the "fear " of death. I would concur with your implication that "The Law" and history of Israel revealed the violence of the entire world, including Israel's. And I would agree that most of the time Israel did not act any better than the pagans around them did. Is it not both ironic and tragic that the nation of Israel, which was used by God to reveal the fact that all men were "imprisoned by the power of death", were in the end the very instrument of violence that attempted to destroy the Christ, God's chosen means of saving mankind from the power of death ? Of course in doing so they confirmed the fact that they (most of them ) had not learned the very lesson they were chosen to deliver.

An interesting slant Micah. I won't argue that the scapegoat mechanism targeted the weakest members of a society, this is obvious in that it continues as government policy in many countries and people groups to this day, including in our own country (except here we are too "civilised" to just go out and directly kill the weak---here we do it by passing laws or by economic oppression: we kill them slowly ) However, does not your idea of Israel setting itself apart from the pagan countries break down a great deal since Israel was also an instrument of genocide when it conquered the "promised land" initially, as well as when it engaged in later wars under king David and others ? I know these were supposedly ordained by God to cleanse the land of influences that would corrupt Israel, but of course Israel continually went after false gods anyway. And at its most basic level, killing is no different regardless of who is wielding the sword, is it not ?

We have sadly seen this proven in the massacre in Afghanistan just yesterday, carried out by one of the supposed "good guys ". But I did appreciate the idea of Issac's aborted sacrifice being a game-changing moment in ancient history. Just not sure if in the long run Israel actually learned the lesson being taught there, thus God had to send His son , the Christ, to be the ultimate and final "scapegoat" for all mankind. But most of mankind has not learned from this final example from God either, including most "christians" I would maintain. From my persepctive, there are no winners in any war, just some who lose more than others.

Steve - one thing that I haven't stated explicitly until now is that Israel wasn't necessarily any *better* than anyone else. As Paul points out in the Letter to the Romans, Israel wasn't significant because they had achieved non-violence themselves, but because their identity worked to expose the violence of the world. This was essentially an identity thrust upon them - Abraham as outcast, Isaac as scapegoat, Moses as leader of slaves. In fact, this identity even exposed their *own* violence - which is why the Hebrew bible is so tense with internal conflict.

This is Paul's meaning - the stories and Law of Israel had revealed the violence of the entire world, leaving no one unscathed.

No, the killing the Israelites engaged in wasn't *better* than other people's killing. Instead, it served to reveal that everyone in the entire world was imprisoned by the power of death.