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rpc • 5 years ago

There is no doubt that NATO navies are conned by less than optimal people, as evidenced by the number of fatal and serious collisions that have happened in recent years.
We can try to defend the status quo or try to make things better.

Rick • 5 years ago

I shall not deny that lessons need to be learned to prevent collisions in the future. Seeing the list of NATO warships involved in accidents, I see mostly U.S. vessels and one Norwegian vessels, that have collided in the last 10 years. Compared with the number of collisions concerning merchant vessels only, the number of collisions with warships is generally low. It does not mean that we do not need to learn from each incident, as it is generally human error that precedes any incident, and from eachbmistake we need to learn how to prevent it, disregarding it being a naval or merchant vessel. I, however, strongly disagree to state that naval personell is less qualified than merchant sailors. Most NATO countries have an excellent training program for their navigation officers and I believe it is an insult to claim that all, or most of NATO's officers are less capable than merchant sailors. Whatever your experience is aboard U.S. Navy vessels, you can absolutely not compare this with other navies around the world. I would again like to invite you to come over and take a look at how officers are trained, so that you can verify that all naval officers comply with STCW standards as described internationally.

rpc • 5 years ago

Considering the number of sea-days the US navy has compared to other NATO navies, it is not surprising that the US navy has more accidents. I do not have first hand knowledge of other navy qualifications.
Your point about STCW is correct. All navies should have only qualified navigators at the con.

condondeb • 5 years ago

This will be a challeng salvage operation, especially involving removal of the ordinance, fuel and lubricating oil safely. We all can be assured the formal investigation will be thorough and those at fault will be held accountable. The Norwegian Navy is a fine Navy and has been terribly embarrassed by this unfortunate incident.

rpc • 5 years ago

As with the US Navy, most navy's do not have professional mariners at the con. Having been in the US Navy, I know this for a fact.

Rick • 5 years ago

Strange to compare the US Navy with other navies and be so certain about the similarities. Being with the Dutch Navy I can assure you that our officers and sailors are highly trained in navigation. Learning how to sail in a safe and secure manner is the primary education of all officer-cadets here in NL. Having worked with multiple nationalities from foreign European navies, I can only state that European navies have very professional mariners sailing their vessels. All of the nationalities I have worked with first teach their students how to navigate and sail safe. It makes your claim that most navies dont have professional mariners see m a little bit illegitimate to me. Not withstanding your experiences in the US Navy.

rpc • 5 years ago

Dutch submarine HNLMS Dolfijn killed 5 people on French fishing vessel which was hit from under water. Tell us. how many Dutch Navy navigators have even Liberian merchant marine qualifications...none.

Rick • 5 years ago

I see you make several assumptions which seem very strange to me. First it is strange to compare above water sailing to underwater sailing. Underwater sailing is far more complicated than sailing surfaced. You do not have the same instruments available and thus a very limited situational awareness. It is because of these incedents that exercises with dived submarines are monitored closely by the surface warships nearby. Dived submarines just cannot see all movement around them at any given moment. It is thus that such incidendents are incomparable to this accident. Secondly you seem to prefer a merchant marine qualification from an African development country as higher appreciated than a marine qualification from any western nation, while these nations have a far better infrastructure to train sailors then poort African nations. Thirdly you assume that naval sailors have no marine qualifications, which is also not true, as we are all fully qualified under Dutch navigational and naval standards and laws and required to do a re-test of our knowledge and capabilities on navigation only each year. In my eyes is a sailor with a sailing qualification from a western nation better trained and equipped to safely navigate than a sailors with a certificate from an African nation such as Liberia, which is not particularly well known for its good sailors.
I would love to show you around our training facilities to show you how much effort we put in the safe navigation and to assure jou that all are personell are very professional and capable navigators. In my eyes sometimes even more capable then some merchant sailors

HENGIST_AND_HORSA • 5 years ago

Maybe the Russians could save themselves a lot of money and simply charter a few merchant vessels to stooge around NATO ports. The chance of NATO warships ramming vessels a lot bigger and tougher than they are seems astonishly high. At one stroke, Norway has lost one fifth of its Capital Ships. The good news is that the captains of the remaining vessels have seen their chances of promotion to Admiral rise by 5% in absolute terms or by 25% in relative terms.