Simple example of the overwhelming good Christianity produces in society....ignoring Christianity feds more, clothes more, and cares for more sick than any other ideology in existence, and has founded endless schools and hospitals, one example makes the case overwhelmingly.....atheistic moral relativism has brought us an acceptance and justification for infanticide. Christianity rejects it 100%. Case closed.

List of all the 'good' stuff.

http://churchandstate.org.u...

And you left out a few things...Catholic groups combined feed, educate and care for more underprivileged than any group on the planet. They have formed endless schools, hospitals and so forth as well. They are also the most persecuted faith as ranked.

Even if you lump in people who commit evil in the name of Christianity, there isn't even a comparison to secular ideologies and death tolls under Stalin, Mao and Hitler. Heck Planned Parenthood, a favorite among secular types, wins by a landslide. 55 million and counting dead with just them alone.

Christian organization's run a lot of charities, but donations come from the general public.

The Christians are the only ones that are making a profit from it though.

LOL okay.

Where do you think any donations come from?

On what planet to non-profits make a profit?

On what planet do non-profits have an abundance of wealth?

Donations come from anyone who wants to donate.

On what planet do non-profits have an abundance of wealth?

On this one.

Non profits are often sponsored by the wealthy. There are a lot of them. Bill and Melinda Gates, for example.

Also, city states (such as Vatican City), as well as countries, historically have a lot of wealth that has accumulated over millennia, usually represented by artifacts, properties, and investments.

Donations come from anyone who wants to donate.

Obviously donations come from anyone who wants to donate. Your statement about Christians making a profit implied that you didn't understand that. Unless of course you're talking about the Billy Grahams, Pat Robertsons, and Joel Osteens of the world. They are a whole different story.

"Obviously donations come from anyone who wants to donate. Your statement about Christians making a profit implied that you didn't understand that."

My statement was in response to this: "Christianity feds more, clothes more, and cares for more sick than any other ideology in existence,".
Your question of "Where do you think any donations come from?" implied that you didn't understand that.

"Unless of course you're talking about the Billy Grahams, Pat Robertsons, and Joel Osteens of the world. They are a whole different story."

They aren't "real Christians", right? There are no real Christians, if the standard is dependent on other Christians.

You have a lot of deliberate misconceptions.

Such as?

Common sense would conclude donations to Christian organizations mainly come from those who share their same beliefs and mission. I don't know of anyone who willingly donates to a group they disagree with. Do you?

And non-profits dont make a profit I thought. That is what liberals tell me all the time in regard to Planned Parenthood.

You mean the truth declared by prophet Muhammad who killed, banished or enslaved every man and woman who refused to submit?

What makes you believe Islamic sources like the Koran, Hadith, Sira are not sufficient evidence?

Being born and raised in the christian faith, and with both our feet planted firmly in the Americas that is not an argument I would pursue.

Can you please explain how your view of Christianity relates to Islam and its prophet Muhammad?

The Koran and the Bible are in fact very similar books, with many of the same characters, places and events playing out the story lines of these two fictional works.
To pretend christianity is not directly responsible for unimaginable amounts of suffering through history is utterly disingenuous.
Don't get your panties twisted the exact same can be said of Islam.

Perhaps that's why Jesus said in essence organized religion is an unnecessary sham.

The Koran makes only 14% of the Islamic source texts, the rest being Muhammad's Sunna, his words and deeds considered a perfect example. So to compare both doctrine, you must know Islam's key character, Muhammad, who is very different from Jesus.

I have to say, it's refreshing to have an actual Muslim on here getting into the thick of things. :)

My words refer to the way Muhammad treated Kafirs, according to Hadith and Sira, having participated in 65 armed events not counting individual assassionations and executions.

"The Qur'an clearly states that Muslims fight those who fight them."

The Quran says lots of things much of which contracts your claim that it states that Muslims should only fight those who fight them.

Mohammed understood the Quran and put it into action the way Allah intended,and he claimed to have been ordered to fight people to bring them to say the Shahada,which is what he did in obedience to his god Allah.

Sahih Muslim 33—The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Fighting non Muslims just because of their disbelief in Allah is what gives Islam its raison detre,nothing has changed,because the Quran and Mohammed's example are held to be eternal.

Quran 8.39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Ibn Kathir 8.39
"The Order to fight to eradicate Shirk and Kufr
Allah said,
(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah, and the religion will all be for Allah alone.)
Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing."

"First of all you need to find out what the word Jihad means as it is not just about killing the oppressors of Islam"

But most of it is,as Ibn Kathir points out:

"Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing."

As does Muslim scholarship found on page 599 in the Islamic book of jurisprudence,The Reliance of the Traveller.

o9.0 JIHAD
"(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion…

and again:

https://islamqa.info/en/ans...

"If Islam was only spread by peaceful means, what would the kuffaar have to be afraid of? Of mere words spoken on the tongue?

In al-Saheehayn it is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been supported with fear as far as a month’s journey.”

Would the kuffaar be afraid of being told, “become Muslim, but if you do not then you are free to believe and do whatever you want”? or were they afraid of jihad and the imposition of the jizyah and being humiliated? That may make them enter Islam so that they may be spared this humiliation.

3 – When the Messenger called people to Islam, his call was accompanied by the sword, and he commanded his leaders to do likewise, so that when the people saw the serious of the Muslims in calling people to their religion, that dispelled any confusion."

It is not hatred to point out the hatred found in a faith which puts its adherents at war with the world, just because they believe differently to them,so why are you defending it?

Again your point under 3 is absolute rubbish. A quick search of the Qur'an would have told you that.

This is not my point, it is Muslim scholarship,and they confirm that Islam was spread by the sword by Mohammed.

https://islamqa.info/en/ans...

If you cannot trust them to give you the facts about your faith, who can you trust?

Islam has two sources of information i.e. the Qur'an and the ahadith. These are what we trust.

Which is why they are used by Muslim scholars,to justify warfare in the name of Islam.

Reliance of the Traveller:

[Section o9.0, page 599]

"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word "mujahada", signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self, (nafs), which is why the Prophet said as he was returning from jihad, "We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad."

o9.0 JIHAD
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion…

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);
(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);
(3) “Fight the idolators utterly” (Koran 9:36);
and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;
and the hadith reported by Muslim,
Sahih Muslim Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:
“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.

And what would that message be...?

And if you decide to say no thanks, I'm good?

Believe or burn are not choices. It is terrorism. It reduces humanity down to nothing but cattle. In this its much the same as Christianity; both unhealthy.

Does your god view all non-believers as enemies?

Do you believe all non-believers have hatred in your heart for your god?

It's like a mob boss. Believe and worship the mob boss or it will make you pay with your life. It is a belief system based on death and fear.

Those are not choices. That is blackmail. That is terrorism.

I worship no deity that demands worship by death threats.

Isn't that why you believe yes? Because you're terrorfied of your god judging you ad only worthy of hellfire?

So believe because you have no choice.

Neither.

What new ideas and practices did it bring?

Genocide and the cultural destruction of every indigenous cultures it met.

What existing ideas and practices did it reinforce?

Discrimination and fear.

What ideas and practices did it stop or hinder?

The freedom of indigenous cultures to practice their faiths unhindered .

I think you’d have a hard time proving that genocide, discrimination, and fear did not predate Christianity but I’ll be open to your factual evidence.

That's a strange defense for someone ostensibly worshiping the 'prince of peace'. Should I call it the 'appeal to Carthage'? There's also that as bad as the Romans were, they were at least somewhat geographically limited as compared to what Christian empires were responsible for.