Here are some random thoughts. This post is old so I don't want to put to much effort in to this. Look at the world population. There sure are alot of Asians so your numbers are skewed. Please factor in how many you are to get any kind of valid statistics. Make your own top universities, we know you all can do it. Harvard is traditionally European for centuries. Hispanics, Indians are big part of this hemisphere and I don't see Asians recruiting any Hispanics and Black to go to Asia. On the other hand Americans and Europeans are being inclusive to the populations we have over here. Quit trying to hog up the world and let some other cultures flourish.

Want to see what Fair Race-Blind elite admissions look like?
Cal Tech 2010

40% Asian
39% White
6% Hispanic
1% Black
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Herrold is a clown
No justification or sense of fairness, he just likes diversity and tells young Mr Jia, to forget it.
`

I can't believe there has been so many racist comments against African Americans and Hispanic Americans. I went to school and worked with many African and Hispanic Americans and they did just as well as anyone else.

I believe in affirmative action since many children in these groups grew up disadvantaged. They may not have had the opportunity to attend preschool or afterschool programs. They may not have had parents who could hire tutors for them like many Asian kids do. With the same advantages most could do just as well.

Many kids in this area grow up in such privileged surroundings that they don't learn empathy for others who don't have the same advantages as they do.(at least that is my impression from the comments posted here)

I'm white and I grew up in a small rural community in Kansas. There are zero options in small schools for after school programs. Nobody, in the entire high school, had a tutor. African-Americans, in large schools, have more options than a po-dunk school in the middle of nowhere but you don't hear us bitching. There is zero chance for someone from a rural community to go to an Ivy league school. We go to state schools. Are you saying there should be affirmative action for white people in small communities, because they don't get near the options of students in large metropolitan areas?

yes and think about the minorities in po dunk usa. We catch the double whammy.

Because the following sobering facts bear repeating, I will re-post them (instead of having them buried in my reply to Kelly Bodwin)

2017 SAT scores by race (from Bookings Institute): The mean score on the math section of the SAT for all test-takers is 511 out of 800, the average scores for blacks (428) and Latinos (457) are significantly below those of whites (534) and Asians (598).

Explain, if you will, how math SAT scores are "racially biased." Again, why do Asian students score the highest on the ostensibly biased SAT test.

SAT penalty on Asians: National Study of College Experience led by Espenshade and Radford (2009) showed that a student who self-identifies as Asian will need 140 SAT points higher than whites, 320 SAT points higher than Hispanics, and 450 SAT points higher than African Americans (to gain admission to elite colleges.)

What are you going to do Herhold when they lay you off and replace you with a young Person of Color in the name of Diversity?

Would you still claim that Diversity is "No Bad Thing" ?

Hey Herhold:

When Harvard and Princeton used quotas and holistic admissions to cap the number of Jews, would you have told the Jews to "Get over it" ?

Mr. Herhold,

I posted the following question to Kelly Bodwin who believes as you do in diversity:
when given a promotion at work because of your accomplishment, would you turn it down so that a lesser qualified Black or Latino colleague would get the job? Please be honest and truthful.

If your answer is no, then you really need to reconsider your advocacy for diversity. I await your response.

http://www.washingtontimes....

Overwhelmingly negative reaction to old man Herholds article.

White and blacks in America are incredibly upset and want to put restrictions on immigrants.

You have to remember Harvard is a PRIVATE school, who is admitted to Harvard is up to their desecration. I will consider US college admission process a business other than political. If a school makes bad choice, it will swallow it late. Let us wait a little bit to see if Harvard is making a right decision or not now. Maybe they are or they are not.
An advise to the people feeling as victims in this case: Get over it NOW and continue to succeed at where you are now and appreciate what you already have. I will not bother to beg or fight to get into one or two schools that make them more powerful over you.
To some extent, I agree with the author. Get over it. US is a country full of opportunities and with freedom. All students can work hard to make their own schools better over time.
Just sent my daughter to Rice University last weekend as a freshman. And I found the school built very good diversity without compromising students' merits. By no means, I found Rice is inferior to Harvard.

Same can be said for private businesses. But private businesses are not allowed to refuse service base on race. Not to mention even though Harvard is private, it receives fed fundings for research, and students also get fed student loans.

You inadvertently used the right word "desecration". It is a desecration of the idea of fairness and non-discrimination.

Quite funny point of view, when a colored went to toilet facing "colored/white" separated toilet.

Go and soothe him/her:
1. This is a restroom of a private company, they can do anything it is business other than political.
2. Be grateful you have a toilet to use! And a "colored" toilet is by no means inferior to "white".

Get over it now! US is country full of opportunities and with freedom.

Of course Rice is inferior to Harvard

You and your daughter maybe perfectly contented by settling for Rice instead of Harvard. But the heart of the matter -- which you and Mr. Herhold failed to grasp -- is that of unfairness due to racial discrimination. How do parents explain to their children that they were rejected solely due to the color of their skins?

And by the way, it is illegal for Harvard and other private colleges to discriminate based on race.

"In the meantime, I have advice for Rosa Parks, now sitting at the back of the bus. Get over it. Life will go on very nicely at the back of the bus. Just be happy you're ON the bus!" Is this racist? If so, Mr. Herhold, you are a racist.

Affirmative Action leads to increased racist attitudes/beliefs. Put yourself in this situation: You are sitting in your college History class while the professor hands back the latest graded essay assignment. After getting their paper back, everyone's eyes dart around the classroom, trying to see what grade everyone else got compared to theirs. Interestingly enough, the Asian American students all received As and excerpts from their well-written essays are posted as examples by the professor. The African American and Latino students, however, received Cs and Ds on their essay... their essays are simply less developed and written much more simplistically, which one could have predicted based on their SAT scores, college essay, and high school transcript grades. Why do these students lack the writing skills of their peers? ...Because the bar was lowered when admitting them to college. Had these students gone to a college where they were rightfully admitted, their essays would look just like everyone else's. Give them a handout and admit them into an institution above their heads, and professors either have to continue with race-based grading systems OR these students perform poorly. This CREATES the view for others that these students are less intelligent, less skilled, less qualified. AND even worse, these students may feel beneath their peers.

Hi Carlton.

I'm curious, have you personally had the experience you describe?

I went to Monta Vista and Harvard. At MV, we didn't think much about contextualizing people's academic performance based on race or socioeconomic status. This is probably because there were very few non-Asian POCs, and nearly everyone was solidly upper middle class. Whoever got the best grades (and boy did we all know each others' grades!) was the winner, regardless of race or gender or what have you. It was a very narrow slice of the world I was experiencing.

Harvard broadened my horizons enormously. Suddenly, I was learning with peers who didn't have a house in the California suburbs, a stay at home parent, a private tutor, a high school offering every AP class known to man. I became acutely aware of the advantages I have that got me to the big H. Don't get me wrong, I'm not devaluing my accomplishment, and I'm still proud of going to Harvard. But imagine the feeling of realizing that near-impossible thing *I* achieved was about even MORE difficult for others? It's humbling.

If Harvard only admitted by SAT score, they would be rewarding access to preparatory classes (my score went up 100 due to these) and shared cultural experience with question writers (the SAT and ACT have been demonstrated to be racially biased). I might never have met my roommate, the most brilliant writer I've ever known, whose guidance counselor told her that "people like her" didn't go to Harvard. I might not know my close friend, who did homework behind the bar her mother tended and is now at a prestigious medical school. These people were valuable to my education, far more so than being surrounded by clones of myself (sorry MV).

The thing you describe - grades dictating racial stereotypes - never happened in my experience. At Harvard we did not share grades. I still don't know the GPA of my best friend. I only saw the racial divide (which does, unfortunately, exist) when I came back later to work as an academic advisor. For me, as a student, seeing Black and Latinx students study at the same level as me did more to combat my latent biases than anything else in my life.

Take away the emphasis on diversity at colleges, and it's not just the non-Asian minority students who suffer. It's *everyone* who attends the school; it's the entire culture of education.

Carlton, I know you mean well. Your concerns are not entirely unfounded - it's true Harvard does not support its underprivileged students well after admission, leading to grade differentials. This is a big issue on campus right now. But I don't think the solution is to eliminate those students from the school entirely. I hope you can eventually see that diversity is an educational value - as much a value as GPA and SAT score.

If SATs are "racially biased", why then do Asian students -- as a group -- score the highest? Also, Asian students who participate in extra-curricular activities and have shown leadership are routinely rejected.

Why didn't you give up your spot at Harvard to a Black or Latino student? You could experience diversity by attending a community college, living in the inner city, and working at job that deals with the public..

Just remember, for every brilliant Black or Latino roommate/fellow student you've met, there is one even more brilliant displaced Asian student whom you will never meet.

... that is literally what "racially biased" means, isn't it? That some races routinely perform better than others.

Again, nowhere did I say anything to imply that Asians don't have extra-curricular or leadership abilities. I do NOT buy into the harmful narrative that Asian students are academic robots with no leadership or creativity. This isn't about Asian students being somehow LESS worthy as a group than any other race. This is about Asian and White students having more opportunity and ability to achieve than other races. That means that a Black student who may not look as impressive on paper may in fact be more worthy of admission; the "admissions profile" doesn't tell the whole story without race.

In brief, your assumption that the displaced Asian student is "more brilliant" because they have better SATs, GPA, or other accolades is short-sighted.

As to why I don't try to personally solve the world's problems through self-sacrifice - well, as I said in my other reply, I'm only human. I'm not going to pass up Harvard in the hopes that my spot goes to a deserving POC. Come on. Enough with this attitude of "your social justice position is totally invalid if you haven't personally given up everything you can for it".

Hypocrite (def.): a person who claims to have a certain moral principles or beliefs but behaves in a way that shows they are not sincere.

You advocate diversity, yet when it negatively affects you, you are "not going to pass up Harvard in the hopes that (your) spot goes to a deserving POC."

So you are telling Asian students "hey, give up your spot to a POC for the sake of diversity. But as for me, I will not." How does that sound?

If giving up a spot at Harvard is "personally (giving) up everything" as you claim, how do you legitimize your advocacy for Asian students to give up their "everything"?

Finally, the fact that Asian students score the highest in SATs irrefutably debunks the Progressives' orthodoxy that SATs are "racially biased" to benefit White students.

Kelly, I sincerely hope you will give this matter some serious thoughts and re-examine your stance.

Regards.

Are you trying to insult me by defining a word that I already used? We are all hypocrites to some extent.

Surely you can comprehend the difference between a collective policy and an individual sacrifice. I vote for taxes, but I don't necessarily donate that money when the tax doesn't pass.

I am not asking Asian applicants to voluntarily forfeit their spots any more than I am willing to do it myself. Rather, I am advocating a policy that sets the bar higher for people from advantaged backgrounds - whether socioeconomic, cultural, or racial. If that means I no longer make the cut, so be it.

I've been passed over or rejected for a zillion things in my life - colleges, grad schools, jobs. Maybe some of those spots went to POC with less impressive resumes. If so, I am very okay with that.

The SATs are biased against black students. I have not seen data on Asian vs white that corrects for socioeconomic status. Feel free to share any such data that you're sitting on.

Regarding your "advice" - some of the commenters here have given me new ideas to think about. You aren't one of them. I think I'm done spending time on this thread.

I am not "trying" to insult you....just pointing out the hypocrisy of your position. If you don't practice what you preach, what do you call that?

And no, not everyone is a hypocrite, especially on major issues. You strongly advocate diversity in an open forum, yet honestly (very admirable, BTW) admit you would not sacrifice yourself for your cause while expecting others to.

As to Asian students forfeiting their spot, shouldn't that be a decision to be made by them, instead of being forced on them?

2017 SAT scores by race (from Bookings Institute): The mean score on the math section of the SAT for all test-takers is 511 out of 800, the average scores for blacks (428) and Latinos (457) are significantly below those of whites (534) and Asians (598).

Explain, if you will, how math SAT scores are "racially biased." Again, why do Asian students score the highest on the ostensibly biased SAT test.

SAT penalty on Asians: National Study of College Experience led by Espenshade and Radford (2009) showed that a student who self-identifies as Asian will need 140 SAT points higher than whites, 320 SAT points higher than Hispanics, and 450 SAT points higher than African Americans (to gain admission to elite colleges.)

You disagree with what I wrote, I can live with that. But at least be open-minded and recognize facts.

In response to Kelly Bodwin- Yes, I have personally experienced what I described in my graduate program. I was acutely aware of the affirmative action practices as we were involved in the application screening and interview process of the class below ours, as they were for the class below theirs. When it was time to write and present our dissertations, it was easy to fall into the mindset of "Wow, what is wrong with Mark, Anna, Derek, and Maria? They are such poor writers! ...Oh and they are all African American or Latino! Why can't African Americans and Latinos write?!" Then I had to remember, the African American and Latino students who were admitted were LESS qualified from the start. Similarly qualified White and Asian students were rejected, as there were many better qualified White and Asian applicants to choose from. These individuals weren't poor writers because of their race/ethnicity. They were poor writers because they were allowed to be poor writers and were bumped up through the program, barely passing as they went along. Read Malcolm Gladwell's chapter on Affirmative Action in his book "David and Goliath" for more information. He provides many great examples!

Thanks for the serious response. That's an interesting experience, and worth considering.

I still have to object to the equivalence between "qualified" and "experienced". I find it unlikely that anyone, of any race, simply coasts into a graduate program on affirmative action alone. However, it's definitely likely that the Black and Latino students were given less high-quality writing instruction, leaving them with worse writing skills coming into your program.

So if you're an elite college, who do you take? The student with all the prerequisite skills who performed in the 80th percentile of their racial and socioeconomic group? Or the one with a spotty educational background who nonetheless managed to outperform 99% of their peer group? I'm inclined to think the extra effort to accept and train the latter group would be well worth it.

Kelly Bodwin, ask yourself this: when given a promotion at work because of your accomplishment, would you turn it down so that a lesser qualified Black or Latino colleague would get the job? Please be honest and truthful.
If your answer is no, then you really need to reconsider your advocacy for diversity.
I await your response.

This question doesn't at all address my point. I didn't say there should be NO white or Asian people in prestigious schools or positions. I said that a homogenous student body provides an inferior educational experience.

But I'll answer your question all the same. Should I pass on promotions because of my privilege? Probably yes. Would I do it? Probably no.

We are all selfish creatures, no matter how hard we try. There's a limit to the self-sacrifice we are each willing to make for the greater good. I donate to charity - but I also own video games and go to Starbucks. I believe in affirmative action - but I am white and I went to Harvard. These hypocrisies will always be present. We do our best.

Advocacy does not require perfection, and acknowledging my own limitations does not delegitimize my position.

Kelly if what you are saying is true then I can argue that the NBA should be full of Asians and white people because they had access to better basketball coaches . But we know that this is not true . Black people are just intrinsically better at basketball than Asians .
We are not demanding that Asians be part of NBA teams for the sake of diversity. So why should the reverse hold true ?

Tell me why the son of Nigerian lawyers who attended an elite private school should have priority over the daughter of Chinese immigrants who work all day bussing tables at the restaurant in Chinatown. Isn't this racist?

This just in:
2018 Nobel Peace prize will go to Scott Herhold for his simple yet revolutionary solution to eradicate racism in society by telling the victims to "just get over it!"
He will also win the MacArthur Genius Award
Asked if he will continue his day job as a columnist for the San Jose Mercury News, the deep thinker vows to continue imparting his sage advices to enlighten the ignorant mass who reads his column.

Asian American's bad luck at Harvard actually is a common problem troubling the middle class of all ethnicity groups. Harvard favors two types of students, those with legacy from elite families, and those diversity candidates. For Asians/middle class, they have to compete very hard to get into those core majors, because they can't afford to graduate Harvard with a degree in gimmick areas. Those two favored children of Harvard, elite and diversity namely, they can study for fun, and land on jobs later either by family ties, or by becoming an activist. Neither of the two make any real contributions to the country or the world, but just enough to keep middle class in check.

Schools derive their power from the countless hs students hoping for a chance to grace their lecture halls. Until the day the throngs of Asian (and other) students stop scrambling over each other for admittance their ability to do as they please, whether explicitly or tacitly, will remain. So I say, let them have their half-wit legacy offspring. Let them have their racially (and intellectually) diverse student bodies or whatever. If you're hardworking/smart enough to get into Harvard. Then you don't need to go to Harvard. Take your talents elsewhere. And when you finally become a fortune 500 CEO, when you finally build that billion dollar business, when you're finally being pitched by startups for your venture fund, when you finally become that "leader" that they say Asians aren't "holistic" enough or don't have the "soft skills" to be and you're the one doing the "admitting", remember the dilution of raw talent, skill, ability that those schools took on under the guise of "diversity" and "admit" accordingly.

Yes. It's Idealistic. I know.

If you believe in Affirmative Action then you believe in racial discrimination. You might think you have a good reason, but you don't. Racists always think they have a good reason. They don't. Race should not be used as any criteria for admission into college (or employment or housing or state benefit). It is vile. You cannot boost one race without hurting another. It is a zero sum game. Plus, it is incentivizes people to play identity politics which is abhorrent. Treat people as individuals, not as members of groups. I hate to break it to you, Scott, but not all Asians are the same. I know an elite institution like Harvard has to draw the line somewhere, but they shouldn't be using race to do it. They're smart at Harvard. I'm sure they can think of something else that isn't racist discrimination.

Well now they don't say racial things, they say it is diversity things...

So the proper response to a victim of racism is : "Get over it. Life will go on."

I will surely link this editorial to anymore whom was affected by racism.

If Asians are being discriminated against, why do they make up some a large percentage of UC students? Private schools have other criteria as was stated in the article.

Because UCs can't use race as a criteria for admission (by law). UCs admit students strictly on merits. And you are correct, private schools have other, no, another, criteria, race, to keep the Asians out. They don't want too many Asians like UCs.

Because UCs hides racial information to admission committe.
While others not.

Because they are good students ,with good scores, and they deserve it?

Scott - how about this as your headline - Racism exists in America, now get over it. What Asians do not want is RACISM, and you say it is ok to have racism against Asians, as long as blacks and Hispanics are benefiting from it? Sir, you are a RACIST and one of the worst RACIST of all - one that sees racism and condones it.

How is it not racist that 5.6% of the population gets 22% of the enrollment in the name of diversity? That means a huge majority of Asians get free pass into college while other races get much less than their population

Quote: "How is it not racist that 5.6% of the population gets 22% of the enrollment in the name of diversity? That means a huge majority of Asians get free pass into college while other races get much less than their population"

You have it backward. I wouldn't call it free pass. Hard working does not equal free pass. What would be free pass is: my race is 15% of the population, so I deserve a 15% slice of whatever, just because I belong to that race.

You obviously are lost as to what I am saying. Hard work should always win, but instead they have race quotas that hurt some and benefit others.

Minority... did you eat breakfast this morning? Your logic is not making sense... 5.6% of the population is making up larger percentages of enrollment because this population happens to value discipline, hard work, academic success, and economic security, while other groups simply do not. You seem to be operating under the premise that colleges DO and SHOULD continue admitting students based on their race. You allude to a good point though- without race-based admissions quotas, Asians will make up much more than 22% of college enrollment. But, what do you expect when Asian American high school students are the ones getting As in high school, while their White, African American, and Latino peers are busy watching YouTube videos and taking 1,000 snapchat photos?

Highest ranking academic success is 46% white and 44% Asian. But good try!

Your racist stereotypes hold no water

Where did you get that statistic? Citations please, you troll.