One thing for sure is that are a lot more people dying and having bad reactions to this vaccine than they are saying. The are not counting most nursing home deaths as from the vaccine. They are listing them as covid19 deaths. Double standard if you die and have covid19, it was covid19 that killed you. If you get the vaccine and die, it wasn't the vaccine but was covid19 that still killed you.

Yes. In the UK if anyone dies within 28 days of having a positive not-diagnostic PCR test – which they were over amplifying using 40-45 cycles resulting in a high rate of false positives – they are automatically recorded as having died from Covid-19 irregardless of them possibly having underlying co-morbidities and/or having received either the AstraZeneca or Pfizer jabs prior to their death.

Same in most of the West. That's why the rest of the world doesn't have so many deaths.

A vaccine is not a comorbidity. UK statistics regarding COVID-19 deaths (or any other primary cause) is stated as "died with COVID-19". So if someone who has Parkinson's gets an obstructed bowel and dies, the death may be stated as a death with Parkinson's (the Parkinson's is the cause of the bowl obstruction, since this is a known complication of Parkinson's. So, people who have COVID-19 and suffer a fatal cardiac or respiratory failure can be said to have died with COVID-19, since those are known complications of COVID-19. It's not a conspiracy -- it's common medical and public health practice.

“A vaccine is not a comorbitity” is an ideological rather than scientific statement. Vaccines have adverse effects(some of these may be like the disease) and our understanding of the adverse effects of these new products will not be understood by reflex dismissal.

The covid 'vaccine" is actually NOT a VACCINE

It is experimental gene therapy. It will not stop you from getting or giving the infection, but might keep you from getting extremely ill. Maybe. They don't even know how long your immune system trigger will last.

Actually it will probably cause you to become much more ill should you catch a "wild" form of virus down the road after you've been vaccinated. The vaccine will throw your immune system so out of whack that any other virus or illness you come across may create inside your body a cytokine storm, resulting in sepsis, organ failure and death. ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) and Pathogenic Priming, are two of the major "side effects" of these mRNA gene therapies.

Once it's been through the required clinical trials and approved, it's no longer "experimental, so your statement is false. It's not a therapy, because it is not intended to treat an illness (and in fact is not effective if the person is already infected). At least one of the currently approved vaccines has now been shown to reduce transmission. That's three of your statements false.

As for how long the immunity will last, that is still being studied, but they already know immunity acquired from the first dose lasts for at least 3 months in at least one of the vaccines. (Immunity from coronaviruses generally are not long-lasting, which is one of the reasons you should clean thoroughly and toss out your toothbrush after recovering from a cold, so you don't get re-infected.)

The mRNA technology of the Pfizer and Moderna products, and the way they are supposed to work are entirely unlike anything hitherto marketed as a “vaccine”. They are also still unlicensed in the US while much about how and if they will work, and their safety is unknown.

Pfizer stated publicaly that the experimental mRNA jab will Not prevent covid. Merck no longer produces it at all. Switzerland rejected the Astra Zenica jab telling them they need to do more testing.

Medicines aren't "licensed" -- they are approved. The vaccines currently being administered in USA have been approved by FDA, after undergoing the same trials for safety and effectiveness that other medications or vaccines undergo.

no they are not. you are spreading FALSE information. Approved for "EMERGENCY" use, meaning they have not been approved - this is EXPERIMENTAL

San_Ban does come off as a promoter of misinfo in a fashion intended to obfuscate

You're partly correct -- while the FDA have not yet granted approval for the COVID-19 vaccines, they are not considered experimental, since the trials required for approval are completed and findings have been submitted. It's the FDA's approval process that is not yet complete.

Some countries have expedited their own processes, while others have gone through their own, much faster process.

Saying “they are not considered experimental” represents an absurd deference to authority, they are experimental : the trials would normally take years. There is no knowledge of the effects of these products beyond about 3 months.

What you call "deference to authority" I call acknowledging the expertise of experts and acknowledging the authority of regulatory authorities!

The trials that would normally take years took much less time, in part because the technology was already developed for previous coronaviruses, the scale of pandemic itself means millions of potential test subjects were available, and the massive amount of funding available (no need to seek further funding after each stage is completed and published).

What is unknown is how long the immunity triggered by the vaccine (after 2 doses) lasts. Early indications show it lasts at least 6 months, while the immunity triggered by the first shot lasts at least 3 months.

For all the clever people we know zero about the effects of these novel products beyond about three months - which scarcely demonstrates wisdom.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say "clever" or "wisdom" -- I'm talking about expertise in science, medicine and public health, as well as authority as legally assigned to government departments and regulatory agencies.

So your talking technocrats and the illusion of authority
the stuff of perception management

There are also many highly qualified scientists who are shut of the process and most of the data, but even Fauci doesn’t really know:

“ Administration of parenterally administered vaccines alone typically does not result in potent mucosal immunity that might interrupt infection or transmission (9). In the case of poliovirus, induction of mucosal immunity through vaccination with the live attenuated oral polio vaccine, in contrast to the parenterally administered inactivated vaccine, was thought to have played a critical role in interruption of transmission and control of poliovirus epidemics (10). For these reasons, additional data regarding protection from infection should be generated as soon as possible. If these vaccines do not provide durable, high levels of protection from infection, and do not drive the prevalence of virus in the community to near zero, a thorough analysis of shedding and transmission will need to be done through additional study”.

https://www.acpjournals.org...

Which qualified scientists are "shut out" and from which process? Citations, please.

"but even Fauci doesn’t really know..." I don't know what it is you seem to think is proven by Fauci's call for further research and data, and acknowledgement that this research is ongoing. Do you understand what science IS?

Anyone who isn’t part of the government complex. Like in the public domain we don’t actually know how many case of anaphylaxis there were with the Moderna vaccine because they did an analysis from a source which wouldn’t tell you.

Fauci says he doesn’t know if it is going to work (and actually observes that vaccines do not generally stop disease spread - oh dear!)

Okay we all know you believe the government but you are not telling us anything.

There are immense amounts of things unknown about the safety of mRNA vaccines. Immense unknowns and for you to say otherwise is complete obfuscation and patently psychologically dishonest on your part. Shame on you.

I would respectfully ask everyone to read the vaccine consent form before getting the vaccine. Of the people I know who have received the vaccine they did not and rely on the news to get Information. On the form it says "this is NOT approved by the FDA". It is only approved by the FDA purposes for experimental use only".

Citation needed.

This is the COVID vaccine consent form from Sussex County NJ health dept.

Here's first paragraph: "EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION: The FDA has made the COVID-19 vaccine available under an emergency use authorization (EUA). The EUA is used when circumstances exist to justify the emergency use of drugs and biological products during an emergency, such as the COVID-19 pandemic. I understand that this product has not been approved or licensed by FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA, under an EUA to prevent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) for use in individuals 18 years of age and older; and the emergency use of this product is only authorized for the duration of the declaration that circumstances exist justifying the authorization of emergency use of the medical product under Section 564(b)(1) of the FD&C Act unless the declaration is terminated or authorization revoked sooner. However, the FDA’s decision to make the vaccine available under an EUA is based on the existence of a public health emergency and the totality of scientific evidence available, showing that known and potential benefits of the vaccine outweigh the known and potential risks. I certify that I am: (a) the patient and at least 18 years of age; or (b) the legal guardian of the patient and confirm that the patient is at least 18 years of age; and (c) authorized to consent for vaccination for the patient named above. Further, I hereby give my consent to the Sussex County Division of Health or its agents to administer the COVID-19 vaccine."

It does NOT say anywhere that the vaccine is still "experimental".

https://www.sussex.nj.us/documents/coronavirus-2020/2021/scdoh/covid-consent-form-final2021.pdf

Yes. <americanfrontlinedoctors.com> Click Vaccine info. The Simone Gold MD, JD video. ALSO <thenewamerican.com> Alex Newman's interview with Lee Merritt, MD. Both are also on YouTube. Website -Humansarefree.com.. mRNA has never been used on humans. Mainly, why would we spend a dime on a disease 90+ percent survivable for which there are multiple total cures. Medicine just does not do this. Too many diseases with no treatments.

Wrong

Patently false. Even Paul Offit said on TWiV the other day that “Pfizer wasn’t likely to pursue full licensure, because, why would they? They’ve already rolled it out and it would require more money, time, and effort to get the vaccine actually approved.”

The definition of vaccine was just changed...

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny has on her website documentation that shows both Pfizer and Moderna are still in the experimental phase (with humans as test subjects because all of the animals died before), and that this phase will continue through 2022 and 2023. As an aside, I have a relative that actually volunteered to be a vaccine test subject as of late 2020. He told me then that for the next 2 years (so 2022), he'll be getting shots at regular intervals, and neither he nor the technician will know if it's the actual vaccine or a placebo. He's 70 years old, and in good health. But frankly at this point, I just hope that he lives through it all. 😫 I believe the great THEY came up with covid as the perfect foil in which to force people into taking the vaccine, which leads to death (depopulation) and control through fear. More and worse is yet to come.

No the trials are still going - they haven't finished. This is emergency approval.
BTW the best immunity always comes from having the disease itself - a vaccine is sometimes a safer alternative (although not as good). It's bit like the difference between breast and bottle milk.
RE cold viruses, there is evidence that cold viruses prevent infection from influenza viruses which are much more dangerous. It could be the reason why we get a cold in winter is that it actually protects us from worse diseases. Our immune system is much smarter than we give it credit for. That's why there are 7 billion of us and why most of us live top a ripe old age.

San_Ban: - the trials were not completed the 'vaccine" was granted Emergency Use Authorization- Not approval in the usual sense

Neither the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine were tested or demonstrated an ability to reduce transmissibility

https://www.nbcnews.com/hea...

"Ongoing clinical trials are primarily designed to show whether Covid-19 vaccine candidates prevent any symptoms of the disease
— which could be as minor as a sore throat or a cough. But the trials,
which will study 30,000 to 60,000 volunteers, will be too brief and too
small to prove that the vaccines will prevent what people fear most —
being hospitalized or dying

The vaccines have been proven highly effective at preventing disease, hospitalization and deaths. They're not analyzing the data for whether they reduce transmission, and at least the Astra Zeneca vaccine (approved in UK and EU) is showing very promising results. Of course, these first few vaccines are far from the last word -- scientists are still working on dozens of other candidates to find a vaccine that prevents infection and transmission and is easy to store, transport and administer.

and those are dangerous enough :(

Depends. They are not vaccines by the old definition which requires that a "vaccine" be made from the infecting agent. However, a more proper and modern definition of a "vaccine" is a treatment which causes the body to generate its own defense against the infection. the old definition comes from a time when the only way to get the body to generate an immune defense was with the offending agent.

Very true. It is a gene therapy.

Citations needed.

You should provide some

You think I should provide citations to support a claim made by someone else?

Every medication has side effects. Nearly all side effects of vaccines are actually symptoms of our immune system mounting an immune response -- redness, soreness, swelling at injections site, fever, chills, nausea, fatigue, headache, inflamed lymph nodes, joint pain are all effects that can be expected in people mounting a strong immune response. In rare cases, these symptoms can be severe enough to require treatment. Even more rarely, people may suffer life-threatening allergic (or allergic-type) reactions, which reactions could happen with any substance. The difference is that, because the vaccine is administered by medical practitioners in facilities with resuscitation equipment standing by, death from such reactions to a vaccine is more rare than death from such reactions to other substances encountered in non-medical settings.

None of this means a vaccine could possibly be counted as a comorbidity. That's not what that word means.

So this why the 4.5 billion dollars of pay out on the VICP,

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/...

and why there are warnings of serious long term effects on many Patient Information Leaflets. While we believe much harm is systematically ignored what you have said is simply false on these grounds alone. Moreover, when you have entirely new products taking an a priori view that all potential harms are to be dismissed should be enough to alert even more suspicion. These are in fact products with known unpleasant side effects often being given to extremely frail people.

You cited a document that says pretty much what I've said. I don't know what point you think you were making!

Warnings of possible side effects does not mean the substance is not safe and efficacious. There is nothing in the world that has zero risk, and I have not "dismissed" those risks. But claiming a vaccine is a comorbidity is as silly as saying showers are a comorbidity. Pretty much every beneficial thing in the world has a risk of unpleasant side effects. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use them.

You are talking in convolutions. Some of us have seen terrifying vaccine reactions with appalling life long consequences. And you can gaslight all the witnesses. We are not saying no one should ever use a vaccine but they should be informed (in this case) that these have not been tested to see whether the prevent infection or death, we don’t know what health consequences they might have beyond two months ,they have been few tests on the elderly , the manufactures have been indemnified, and there are trolls about who put out bland reassuring statements, which have no basis in science or fact.

Of course, if vaccine products were just safe by virtue of belonging to the class then there wouldn’t even be a need to test them.

These aren't vaccines but experimental gene therapy. Just look at the patent applications. They shouldn't call them vaccines.

Except when an experimental type & formulation of vaccine, has not had any animal or accelerated safety testing, is summarily approved to proceed to phase 4 trial testing on millions of people, now 100's of millions.
The vaccines were withheld for almost a month to avoid release prior to the US elections.
Then expedited from phase to phase of testing, still skipping over the typically key safety studies.

Beyond the short term risk of sudden death as shown in the past 20 years of previous coronavirus mRNA studies. Also skipping over yet untested likely occurences of serious conditions and diseases listed as likely to result from injections of the mRNA cocktail.

Previous coronavirus & similar mRNA studies' primary reason for
stopping & prevented mRNA research from going forward or approved for human trials has consistently been the hurdle of proving the "medicine" safe enough for human use. After animal and tissue safety studies revealed a higher than acceptable likelihood of fatal reactions and long term or chronic conditions caused by or triggered from the mRNA. Yet, the regulatory agencies have allowed the same safety studies to be skipped throughout the current vaccines development.

It's reported to be 90% EFFECTIVE for the first 4 strains originally spread from China. Recent couple of weeks developments show the current vaccines have little or no effect to the other 8 strains identified.

So far nobody within the research bubbles are allowed to disclose ongoing reporting of deaths and serious illnesses. None are planning or required to test for the development of the conditions likely to develope.

With 100's of millions of test subjects in the current trial phase, the human safety studies are now underway.

If the 3, 6, and 12 month tests will be permitted, & conditions change so the general public will be allowed to be informed, "we the people" may be pleased or appalled.

More likely, current conditions will continue, there will be as much or more secrecy, cover-up, and same old "com-on-man..&."at this point, what does it matter anyway?" will be the government's / WHO's/ FDA, CDC & NIH consistent response. Same attitude of extreme arrogance was allowed to squelch the Clinton & Obama crime waves; & same actors have returned...

As for now, nobody will know until six to 12 months after phase 4, with 100's of millions of test subjects receiving experimental vaccinations, & needing testing if the high risk occurances are to be evaluated and quantified (or MIRACULOUSLY disproven. According to published disclosures, there are currently no requirements or plans to test for any of the identified likely high risk conditions. With only Pfizer accidently disclosing their most significant - untested - identified risks when their application for an emergency concurrent rapid push into phase 4 trials, before phase 3 was evaluated; what are the other formulation's high risks? Pfizer' high risks were quickly deleted, but reportedly received broad condemnation from top medical researchers. With such severe risks remaining untested, general concern was for the ethics of proceeding & increasing phase 4 tests to include several magnitudes beyond previously held limits for any medication or foods testing. Now as testing is spread to regions without adequate medical care, if the effects are revealed to be as prominent & severe as predicted, the test subjects will likely be on their own to deal with the catastrophe unfolding.

Unknown is the balance of vaccine risks, though thus far shown as of limited benefit, other than for political power plays.

Quite frightening when considering the recent changes to the federal government showing a lack of honesty, no openness to truthful disclosure, and no sign of ethical conduct from government agencies in collusion with the Gates funded NGO & UN initiatives. Thus far pushing their selected vaccines far, fast, with almost total secrecy. Now information is no longer being publicly disclosed by government agencies. Vaccines based on the "Great Reset" for one world government & blended economies. Population controls set by a centralized world government.
Since the US government was taken over by the radical leftists, it's essentially closed its doors to providing public information.
The new administration's posture of endorsing censorship, sponsoring violent extremist organizations & control over internet and network platforms in MSM & has cut off most current news from outside the US.

If what you say is true, hundreds of governments around the world, thousands of scientists, tens of thousands of doctors, and hundreds of thousands of other medical practitioners are involved in a massive conspiracy to kill off tens of millions of people!

But I'm going to need something more that a breathless rant on teh interwebz to convince me. Could you cite a few credible sources (you know, people who are not making wild conspiracy theory claims, with zero evidence.)

Meanwhile, I'll continue to check the sources and look at the actual evidence, most of which is available to anyone who can read it, all of which right now are all pointing toward safe and efficacious vaccines.

There are many ways vaccines can go sideways. Dr. Judy Mikkovtis wrote about one way in her book "Plague" 2014 by Judy Mikovits and Kent Heckenlively. Some of the childhood vaccines like polio and MMR, HPV, have been associated with retroviruses like HIV, XMRV's, LTV-1. Depending upon a persons genetics, retroviruses may remain dormant for decades awaiting activation, while hiding in your B and T cells. Replication may occur from declining immune systems in the elderly, or when hormones are over expressing like cortisol from fear or stress and/or/ from men who produce a lot of testosterone. Other forms of activation may occur from strong pathogenic attacks, such as from vaccinations. Mikovits discovered that by accident. She was testing ME/CFS patieints for an association with xenotropic murine leukemia virus, related viruses when she found they were hard to detect. One day they took a sample from a patient and found a lot of them. She found out the patient had just had a vaccine. That's why HIV patients are given retroviral blockers before they get vaccinations.

With coronaviruses and COVID mRNA vaccines, the problem arises from the proteins of the virus looking very similar to human proteins.(see James Lyons-Weiller's report on pathogenic priming from COVID mRNA vaccines) As Prof. Cahill describes it, the first potential reaction is from anaphylactic shock. Then there are potential autoimmune issues, possibly from the PEG chemical. But the real danger is upon a future challenge with coronaviruses. Your body will have been primed for the proteins in those viruses, proteins that may look very similar to vital human proteins. This, as Cahill said, may trigger sepsis and organ failure.

Incidentally, Dr. Mikovits has found an association with many co-morbidities and retroviruses from vaccines. I highly recommend her book, Plague, mentioned above.

There is no such thing as a “side” effect. It’s an effect, period. If the drug company markets a drug for a specific condition, then any effect not related to improving symptoms of that condition are listed as “side effects”. Often, these “side effects” are then used to market the drug for a completely different condition...then they rename (rebrand) the drug and all the sudden that “side effect” is an effect, and other unwanted effects are then called “side effects”. Drugs affect the body, period. Calling it a side effect seeks to confuse, diminish, and dismiss the toxicity of drugs to the public. This is a common psychological marketing ploy.