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Chicken_Tacos • 4 years ago

So I'm on Episode 20 of Season 2 and the last few episodes have been goddamn awful. The scenes with Cooper awkwardly romancing a young Heather Graham are so cringe-inducing that it is taking enormous will power just to not turn it off. The reason he stopped pursuing Audrey Horne is because apparently Kyle Machlachlan was fucking Lara Flynn Boyle, and she was doing the jealous girlfriend thing even though he was hitting all up, down, left, and right in her sugar walls. So, in comes Heather Graham and Cooper becomes socially retarded.

Aura1 • 4 years ago

The books go into this more. Cooper is a sweet and relatively straight forward man (unlike so many lead detectives in fiction, he's almost childlike in his enthusiasm and lack of cynicism). Annie fulfills a purpose but Frost/Lynch have suggested that around Twin Peaks people act incredibly strangely - as if the gateway to hell is polluting the water, the air, the minds and souls of everybody (not just those with parasitic demons living in their body). Coop falling for the straightforward girl is almost predetermined by the Lodges in order for Annie to get a message to Laura Palmer (see Fire Walk With Me).

I really like the Mitchum brothers. And i trust Lynch to tie all the plots together well as the season continues.

I'm ready to see Dale again as well but, as he really dominated the first two seasons, the Dougie role is giving other characters the chance the shine, and I'm enjoying the increased time of Gordon and Hawk.

John Plugger Mellencamp • 4 years ago

I am enjoying the mini-series. However, I am getting more and more frustrated that Lynch and Frost seem to have forgotten that the main appeal of Cooper was that he was first and foremost an eccentric but brilliant detective, in the tradition of Holmes or Poirot. Making him more or less brain dead defeats the point of the character.

Aura1 • 4 years ago

He was always a sweet, straight forward, joyful character - that's not changed. His return from incalculable horror is like any story of redemption or journey to health - frustrating and uplifting in equal measure. This isn't called Twin Peaks The Return for no reason, it's not a murder mystery, it's how that character rebuilds himself after being confronted with true evil. He's not just returning to Twin Peaks, he's returning to reality and his own mind.

John Plugger Mellencamp • 4 years ago

Yes, he was a sweet, straight forward joyful...detective. I don't mind the idea of a rebuild but not one that has already taken up over half the series.

Aura1 • 4 years ago

Fair enough, of course. I think you're in for a disappointment though as the only detective work in this series is going to be Albert and Cole. It's not a whodunnit - we already know whodunnit - it's a whereishe?

Jerry Aurora • 4 years ago

I do like the theory some have talked about that Evil Coop has all of Good Coop's memories. That it will require Evil Coop's death to fully restore Good Coop, hence the "Don't Die" warning from Mike. It could also explain why the Woodsmen were so keen on "repairing" Evil Coop when he was shot in Ep 8.

VoiceOver • 4 years ago

For you Lynch and Star Wars fans:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

TallBoy6t6 • 4 years ago

Finished the original run which I started about a month and a half ago. It starts actually adding more mystical elements as the show goes on, especially in Season 2. But I do like how much stuff is happening in Season 1 and not quite tying together but I just sort of watch it for individual weirdness. Season 2 has a great run up to the eventual killer Leland Palmer / Bob reveal, which I think is all kinds of awesome. Apparently ABC forced them to do it but I thought it wrapped up real well. In fact, I think my favourite scene in the entire series is in S2 when everyone is hanging out at the bar,Donna is legitimately having fun mouthing along to the song with James, then the giant appears and tells Cooper, "It's happening again." and then the terrible, horrific stuff happens with Leland Palmer/Bob and Maddy. But what breaks me is they cut back to the bar and Donna is just SOBBING uncontrollably and Bobby looks traumatized. Fantastic "Great disturbance in the Force" bit.

While there is definitely a bit of a sag after the Leland Palmer / Bob reveal, things do perk up in the last 3 episodes. The last episode, "Beyond Life and Death" is pretty bugnuts crazy, aside from Coop going into the Black Lodge, every other plotline literally either gets cliffhanged or blown up. As in literally. Like it's hilarious that Audrey chains herself to the bank in a moment of political activism and then there's a ridiculously long shot of the old bank guy trying to grab keys to unlock the door and then bomb in the safety deposit box and a huge explosion! And that's how the story ends! Same deal with Leo who is stuck in a lost cabin. And Nadie who suddenly remembers that she's not in high school. I'm not mad, actually, I like how crazy it is (And, y'know, Season 3)

But, that aside, the Coop in the Black Lodge stuff I think is pretty fantastic because it's so entirely bizarre and deliberately refusing to make sense (aside from maybe in small, sideways chunks). Like there's a shot of Maddy saying "Watch out for my cousin!" and then the next bit is the little red suit dancing guy saying "DOPPELGANGER!" So maybe Maddy really is Laura. I guess. I dunno. But me likey. Especially when Bob literally ate Windom Earle's soul, that was nuts. And the "How's Annie?" Coop is Bob ending, yikes! So while I could see people were ticked it's a lot of cliffhangers with no resolution, I still liked it for how crazy it was. "I'll see you again in 25 years" is fantastically gutsy considering there is a new season over 25 years later. And it's also an amazingly oddball line to say. But I don't have to wait 25 years, I only have to wait a few days.

Going to watch Fire Walk With Me literally today. Although I did hear there is supposedly some continuity glitches between Fire Walk with Me and the series although maybe I won't notice.

bhowza • 4 years ago

Glad to see a new viewer whose take is exactly like mine was, 25 years ago.

KolobosRexx • 4 years ago

....FWWM actually informs a great deal of the new show/Season 3! Especially where the Black Lodge and its denizens are concerned! But you should check out the "Missing Pieces" segments too!

TallBoy6t6 • 4 years ago

Already on it got both FWWM and Missing Pieces lined up! Definitely doing a deep dive. Is there any canon radio plays I missed?

bhowza • 4 years ago

There are some supplemental books. "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and "Dale Cooper: My Life, My Tapes" Both are old, and I don't know how available they are. They add to the narrative, but I do't know how essential they are. They're good, though.

There were some audio tapes of Cooper, too. I don't know if they were the same as the autobiography or additional material.

Late last year, Mark Frost wrote "The Secret History of Twin Peaks". I disliked it, but after watching this season, I feel compelled to reread it. He's publishing yet another book later this year, too.

KolobosRexx • 4 years ago

Not to my knowledge! :)

Chicken_Tacos • 4 years ago

Man, you and I are pretty much about on the same track. I watched season 1 back in the day and season 2 up until the killer reveal, so I have been binge-watching them again. I'm on episode 16 of season 2 and it was good until episode 10 but now it really is getting to be tough to watch them. I'm pushing through. I've seen episodes 1&2 and episode 8 and 10 of the latest season, and season 3 is amazing. I feel like it doesn't matter if season 3 is watched in order.

TallBoy6t6 • 4 years ago

I'm actually going release order so I haven't seen a frame of Season 3 yet. Just been one big long Twin Peaks binge of Season 1 and 2 for about 2 months. Probably get caught up to the show weekly in August (just when Game of Thrones is on at the same time, hahaha)

The immediate post-Leland/Bob reveal in S2 takes a bit of a downswing but there's enough wackiness to make it watchable and it starts to get interesting again around episode 18.

Norm • 4 years ago

Is this good? I just don't have time for TV in the summer, too many chores and outdoor activities. Unless it's really worth it.

bhowza • 4 years ago

It's amazing, with some subjective caveats: you must have loved the original, you must not have hated the movie, and you must be willing to put yourself fully in Lynch's hands and trust him.

notspock • 4 years ago

For an added bonus - headphones and the biggest screen you can find. (Lynch's own advice)

walt kovacs • 4 years ago

the candy colored clown they call the sandman

Lucky13 • 4 years ago

Didn't love this episode as much as some others, but that bastard Lynch got me yet again... with that Laura Palmer face-ghost in the door. Creeped me the fuck out.

Guest • 4 years ago

I've just rewatched that moment about a dozen times, trying to pin down why it's so effective. He's an absolute master when it comes to 'unsettling'..

Beatitude • 4 years ago

Fucking love Naomi squats.

Schwifty • 4 years ago

This has about as much to do with "Twin Peaks" as THE STRAIGHT STORY does. However, it's David Fucking Lynch, and even really bad LOST HIGHWAY David Lynch is still pretty goddamn great. I would have liked to have seen a more linear sequel to the original series, but let's face it, CBS pretty much butt-fucked the show back in '91 by pressuring Lynch to reveal who the killer was, and that was right around the point he checked out and moved on to better things (WILD AT HEART, to be exact). At no point was he ever going to be interested in continuing something that was compromised twenty-six years ago, so he might as well have fun in his golden years doing this whatever-the-fuck-it-is.

VoiceOver • 4 years ago

Funny, Lost Highway is my favourite Lynch, what didn't you like about it?

Lost Highway is incredible; Mystery Man "Call me, I'm at your house" is one of the best Lynch scenes.

Tristeele • 4 years ago

ABC

Jacobfrom Lost • 4 years ago

And it was the Fall of 1990 when the resolution to Laura's killer aired, and thus the pressure from ABC came before THAT...which was not 1991.

Tim S. Turner • 4 years ago

It was on ABC, not CBS.

Chicken_Tacos • 4 years ago

Dougie's semen came out.

Indrid Cold • 4 years ago

When I saw Naomi's naked, tight little body bouncing up and down, so did mine.

Guest • 4 years ago

I never pictured you having a tight little body...

Indrid Cold • 4 years ago

Now you can never UNpicture it!

Chicken_Tacos • 4 years ago

My favorite part was when she came so loud that a young boy heard and is now permanently emotionally scarred. That's some damn good cherry pie! 🍒

anchorman • 4 years ago

dougie got a ride. again. just one this time though

Chicken_Tacos • 4 years ago

Dougie's semen may have traveled through her pussy and made a baby. Then we have to hope she doesn't name him Robert or else, uh oh, Spaghetti-Ohs!

Joe Random • 4 years ago

I'm afraid my wife has a theory that seems to be correct. Many may have already came to this conclusion themselves so bare with me.

It goes like this:

Evil Cooper has Original Coop's memories and consciousness, which is why Dougie Coop cannot snap out of it - there is literally nothing there for him to snap back INTO. Evil Cooper has to die or go back to the black lodge for Original Coop to get his conciousness back. Sadly, Evil Coop will likely not be truly defeated until the last episode, which means we will not see Original Coop back on screen until the final few minutes of the last episode.

I had been thinking this whole time that Original Coop was just having to get reacclimated to the world and would slowly come back, but her theory makes a lot of sense.

Sorry guys. :(

SFLight • 4 years ago

Please, please PLEASE be wrong.

Aura1 • 4 years ago

If you read 'The Secret History' you read accounts where returning from the Lodges induces memory loss and, after prolonged exposure, almost total Catatonic state in almost everyone. This ties in with the flying saucer mythos (alien abductee phenomena is hinted to be part of the Lodge metaphysics) as well as the various tribal/shamanic 'hell gates' believed to exist in the earth. Cooper has remained in the Black Lodge for 25 years and so his brain is almost entirely cooked by the electrical transference used to sneak him out. Like almost all of the cases recounted in the Secret History he will regain his memories but, like Philip Jefferies, he will be shell shocked by the change in time. He's not 'quantum leaped' into Dougie, he's very much Dale Cooper (haircut, bodyweight and honed skills when threatened included) and Dougie is very much gone. He is still in there, it's just like he's a metaphysical astronaut returning to gravity/reality and it's taking a lot of time to learn to walk again (I mean, he was sat in a dimension of pure evil for 25 years chatting with a dwarf that turned into a tree, theres going to be an adjustment period)

VoiceOver • 4 years ago

Great analysis, to be honest, after reading "The Secret History" I did expect this new season to tune in with the book more than it has up to now, as far as I can tell, so that surprised me a little bit. I loved the book and I very much love what we are getting in this latest season, but curious to see whether Lynch will bring both of them together more than he seems to have so far.

Aura1 • 4 years ago

I too expected more of a 'mythos' series, delving into the occult and tying all the threads together, but remembering this is Lynch still, we've focused on very small personal moments amid the chaos. It's still very much Cooper's Return to Reality show, barring ep 8 which was pure mythology and small elements of other episodes. I don't think Frost expected they'd ever 'do an X Files' and explain the whole nature of the occult and aliens in one go and that's why his novel is so detailed. I do hope more people read the Secret History though. It adds so much to this (and the old series/FWWM) to know where everybody came from.

remcycle • 4 years ago

I've been thinking since Part 7 that we're not going to see the original Cooper until the very end.

THE RETURN is singularly about getting him out of the Black Lodge; why come to that conclusion early? As fan service maybe? I think we've all figured out by now that DL gives zero fucks about fan service. :)

walt kovacs • 4 years ago

this is possible
coop is therefore the red herring....the macguffin
just like who killed laura palmer was in the original series

CouvMan • 4 years ago

I think Coop lost his mind right before he went into the keyhole. You see him get a big shock and he looks changed. He seemed to have his wits before that.

Good point, we have officially actually the seen the real Dale this season, up until that point.

Marc David • 4 years ago

theres pics of Original Cooper driving alone and walking to Laura's house in the trailers and sneak peaks though so the OG cooper must make it back in time for a few episodes at least.

Dern also said in an interview that she and Kyle filmed scenes in a car driving to Washington and talk about "robins". I can't see bad cooper talking about birds.

ThomasJarvis • 4 years ago

"Dern also said in an interview that she and Kyle filmed scenes in a car driving to Washington and talk about "robins"."

This is interesting, as Dern and MacLachlan also discuss robins while seated in a car during this scene from the 1986 film 'Blue Velvet' (written and directed by David Lynch):

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Is it possible the double is in those scenes? He cuts his hair to look more like Dale?

anchorman • 4 years ago

i begrdugingly agree