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cran • 4 years ago

Priests should be able to marry. The early church leaders were married. The early priests were married. If a priest wants to be celibate, so be it. Meanwhile, the married priests will be better able to connect with the people. Duh. Pedophilia, anyone?

Sheila Moore • 4 years ago

Pedophilia is not related to celibacy. If it were, then only otherwise celibate men would be child molesters.

unusual • 4 years ago

Celibacy is a crock of baloney. The first pope was married, most of the apostles, hand picked by Jesus, were married - celibacy did not become a requirement until more than 1,000 years after the establishment of the Catholic Church. Married priests would have a much better understanding of what family life is like and would probably be much less tempted to engage in inappropriate sexual behavior outside of their marriage. It is cruel and inhumane to expect or to mandate human beings to deny or try to stifle their sexuality. It is a normal part of human life.

Sheila Moore • 4 years ago

The Roman Catholic church was developed by married - or at least, not celibate - priests, bishops, cardinals and even popes. If celibacy is required for holiness, the entire foundation of the Catholic church comes into question. Don't throw stones in glass houses.

Valen • 4 years ago

The old Cardinals and Popes need to take a look at celibacy rules. Just not natural.

StuA • 4 years ago

TWO sky-santa whisperers in Rome. Hilarious.

marriedpriests.com • 4 years ago

Fr. Dwight Longenecker, a married Roman Catholic priesthood dispensed from celibacy when he converted to Catholicism, said that the perceived tension between Benedict and Francis is media gossip. More importantly, I do want to add that celibacy should be the 'norm' for the Latin rite (Roman Catholic instead of Eastern Catholic Churches) but allow dispensations on a case by case basis. Thank you for the space.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

"A married Roman Catholic priesthood"? English please? Dispensations have been used to undermine celibacy in the Latin Rite since the early 1950s, and it is being pushed for in the amazon by Liberation theologians who want to turn the towards Paganism not Pagans towards the Church.

marriedpriests.com • 4 years ago

You cannot deny the authority of Pope Pius XII who has the keys of Peter to dispense from canonical requirements. You should see the validity of this argument and how I am using a pre-Vatican II authority to prove my case. Are you a sedevacantist (no Pope on the Chair of Peter)? The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

For your second part of your comment, I agree with you that the Church has been infiltrated, but we part company in that the married priesthood is not an intrinsic evil like those other evils (Pachamama, the marxists infiltration of the hierarchy, HC for those in objective mortal sin, etc.). Do not conflate the married priesthood with those evils. There are many holy married priests.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

Popes can make flawed decisions in matters of discipline and when making exceptions to apostolic discipline for the forst time in more than 1900 years that is dubious to say the least.
I am not a Sedevacantist, (though I have looked into the Siri thesis and have legitimate doubts regarding the conclave of 1958, as well as regarding the conclave of 2013 with the Podesta emails and so on raising doubt).
Pope Pius XII was a valid pope but Our Lady of Fatima indicated that the pope could fail in his mission to consecrate Russia which would result in the spread of the errors of Russia, this happened under Pope Pius XII and he allowed himself to be eventually swayed by FDR in tacitly condoning/approving aid to the Soviet Union going against the stance of Pope Pius XI.
Pope Pius XI, Pope Pius IX, Pope Saint Sergius, Saint Pope Leo IX and Pope Gregory VII all excluded exceptions. I obviously trust their judgement.
Married priesthood has nonetheless been pushed by Novationists, Nestorians, Photius, Protestants, Freemasons, the French Revolutionairies and Marxists. It is one of the most unifying elements of schismatics and heretics.
The early church fathers would view a lack of perpetual continence as incompatible with being a holy priest. I do not question their character or intentions, but living in obedience to apostolic tradition requires them to be completely abstinent. Married saints and priests were so for decades so I do not see any problem.

marriedpriests.com • 4 years ago

While evidence of celibacy and continence can be traced to the Twelve Apostles (apostolic discipline), evidence of 'mandatory' celibacy and 'mandatory' continence cannot be traced to the Twelve Apostles (it is not 'mandated' apostolic discipline). The key word is 'mandated'. Concerning holiness of a married priest, there are canonized married priest saints that have had kids after ordination like St. Gregory the Elder. There were 4 new married priests martyrs canonized about a decade ago. The Church Fathers were not unanimous on the married priest issue, and some of them like St. Hilary of Pointier, St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Paulinus were married clergy. You theologically shoot yourself in the foot when you cite the Church Fathers and the Elvira Synod (which has the same weight as the Amazon Synod). Ordinariate priests were not expected to be continent. Married priesthood is not an innovation but a restoration of how things were done by the first Christians the first 300 years of the Catholic Church. The Church has the authority to change in matters of discipline which means it is ratified in Heaven, as Christ himself said in Mt. 16. Your theological foundation is not correct. The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

Christ`s instructions to the apostles to leave their families behind was very much mandatory. Origen and Clemen of Aleandria spoke of mandatory continence. Jerome and Pope Siricius confirmed that it was an apostolic discipline.

marriedpriests.com • 4 years ago

Citation of Christ's words please? Clement of Alexandria said that the Church accepts priests and deacons that beget kids for their salvation. Origin spoke of celibacy but not mandated celibacy. Jerome was after Elvira Synod in AD 305, and even conservative scholars recognize that he had outdated thoughts about women, and Pope St. Siricius was the year 400. What's more, the Fathers of the Church were not unanimous about mandated continence and celibacy. When they are not unanimous, it is not Sacred Tradition. St. John Chrysostom talked about clergy having only one wife. St. Hilary of Pontiers was a married Latin rite priest with a daughter named Afra. St. Gregory the Elder had kids AFTER he was ordained a priest, including his son St. Gregory Nazienzen. St. Greogory of Nyssa was a married priest. And the famous St. Patrick was the son of a deacon <<<gasp>>> and grandson of a clergyman. For every Church Father you cite, there are plenty that say something else.

Hey would you be interested in following a Catholic Answers Forum on this issue? I posted a married priest comment yesterday, and about 60 comments from people were made in a few hours by a dozen people. You will find better arguments to support your position there.

Also, for this news article, while the author did a pretty decent job, the non-Catholics (and uncatechized Catholics) reading this won't understand the finer points of our conversation.

If you dont want to go to the Catholic Answers Forum, no worries. As in write this, it is the day before Querida Amazonia which will be issued Feb 12, so I want to close shop here. I will give you the last word in this thread. I hope to see you there, @PeterDamian. I enjoyed talking w you. May Our Lady's Immaculate Heart, the heart that the Bible said was pierced, bring you ever closer to Our Lord Jesus Christ!

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

First of all, Christ`s words to leave families behind are well known, read the gospels, secondly you would need to provide a quote on Clement of Alexandria saying that.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

Also John Chrysostom demanded continence after ordination, Hillary of Portiers practiced it himself and did not conceive new kids after he was ordained. Gregory the elder was a Jewish-Pagan convert and an Arian, during his early time as bishop. how he lived is therefore not indicative of orthodox discipline since at that time he supported the heretics. Did Gregory of Nyssa have sex after being ordained? Did Saint Patrick`s father conceive him after ordination?
None of the examples you cite, (except for the former Arian), involve priests having sex after ordination, and Gregory the Elder being a bishop would serve just as much as an argument against the Eastern practice which demands celibacy from bishops.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

Bergoglio will not allow married priests. It is fantastic news. A victory for orthodoxy!

marriedpriests.com • 4 years ago

Steve from 1P5, NCRegister, Fr. Mark Gorling, and LSN report: Not so fast. Also, Querida Amazonia was not meant to address dispensations from celibacy but rather the injustices against the poor in that region. A lot of people who "saw the Holy Spirit" in Francis' silence in QA are going to be embarrased. Time will tell.

PeterDamian • 4 years ago

I know that it was meant to promote Marxism and attack Right-wing politics but he refrained from following the suggestions of his handpicked and rigged robber synod.

Randy • 4 years ago

What does I Timothy 3:3-5 mean?