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it really makes me wonder
Artists are inspired by other people's material. That's all this is and not even a note for note lift of the few bars in question. (I'm listening to The Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus on You Tube as we speak, great stuff!) Someone's looking for a pay day, that's all. This is America.
I love that LP! Street Worm and Nature's Way.
´cause you know sometimes Words have two meanings....´ C, D, Fmaj7I heard them live in 1971
Randy´s song is nowhere near Jimmys; nowhere. There´s a faint resemblance, 10 seconds, but it´s not a parephrase, even. Just a coincedence. The two guitarists probably have it from Works of JS Bach.Jimmy Page really levitates the senses and delivers a stunning performance, eight miles higher than Randys..But why wait fourtysome years to challenge a copyright, and aren´t there deadlines?
NPR once Again missed the big Picture.Plus they got it wrong on the headline. It shoul have read BEING sued.
There was a recent case about the Raging Bull screenplay that told me that there's no deadline for claiming copyright violation so long as the copyright is still in force, but the penalties can only be assessed on the three prior years. Which, admittedly, probably isn't chump change, but it's a lot less than if they'd filed in 1974...
The article says that Zeppelin is planning on reissuing their albums, so perhaps they're hoping to get a piece of that.
If jimmy stole it then Spirit stole it from Davy Graham's cry me a river it's hypocritical
Not too many bands that I'd like to have seen live but didn't. In fact, Zeppelin may be the only one. I was just a little bit young when they were in their prime, and Bonzo's death happened just as I got to the age where i could attend. Bummer!
I saw them 37 years ago almost to the day next week on a Friday night in Largo, MD and then we drove straight down to Ocean City MD for the Memorial Day Weekend in my 66 split window dodge van (shag carpeting, little round windows in back side and an 8 track cassette player - natch). They came back on for three separate encores and brought the house down - and Plant said sarcastically in closing "Thank you DC....you've been ....quiet" The place went nuts!
"Everybody, listen to meAnd return me my shipI'm your Capt'n, I'm your Capt'nThough I'm feeling mighty sick"
Everbody knows Grand Funk Railroad stole this one from LZ's great Carouselrama.
LZ and Tull at Anaheim Stadium was pretty sweet but 10 Years After and Spirit at the Pasadena Rose Garden was even better.
Spirit was a local band and I must be loyal. This lawsuit is basically nonsense but if it introduces more aficionados to this great LA band, fine with me.
If jimmy stole it then Spirit stole it from Davy Graham's cry me a riverIt's hypocritical
We're comin' to your town ...we're gonna party it down...we're an American Band!Playin' Rock n roll music to the world and ya know....I'd love to change the world...good morning little school girl! ....Eying her with bad intent....
Lucky running Dog!
If jimmy stole it then Spirit stole it from Davy Graham's cry me a river
Stairway is derivative, but I don't think close enough to justify infringement. Someone looking for settlement money got together with a lawyer looking for publicity. Compare this to, for instance, the guitar song used to intro Louis Black's "Back in Black" segment on the Daily Show. Again, derivative but distinct.
None of this matters- LZ was so good that it doesn't matter if they stole every song they played- they were made to play those songs, and they played/tweaked/created them better that anyone else...ever, ever could...end of story.
So then the Verve should have gotten their money for Bittersweet Symphony, right? Because otherwise that track from "The Last Time" would have been lost to history.
Yeah. It really makes me wonder….
A jazz teacher once said to me that the mediocre musicians don't steal, good musicians steal a little, and the best musicians steal from everyone. Led Zeppelin stole from everyone, and they created great original music with it. The descending chromatic bass line from i to V has been used in music for hundreds of years, and other than that there is nothing in common between the two songs.
I have to agree.. that descending IV line is ubiquitous in folk music going back hundreds of years. A variation of it pops up in Bojangles by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.. about 4-5 years before Stairway or Spirit.. Perhaps they should be party to the suite.
The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's version of "Mr. Bojangles" was released a couple of years after Spirit's first album, (not that it settles any argument).
It's okay to beg, borrow, or steal musical ideas but to profit from them as LZ has done ($562 million for Stairway) and not give credit or compensation is for courts to decide.
Normally, I would completely agree. However, in this instance the only two things in common are the descending bass line and the rhythm. Everything else is different. Maybe the rhythm was stolen, but that could be coincidence. I don't know; I wasn't there. The descending bass line should not be copyrighted because it has been used by hundreds of people and cannot be credited to any one person. Purcell, J.S. Bach, Ray Charles, and even Green Day have used the same progression. Led Zeppelin used almost the same progression in "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You" and in the solo to "Tangerine" (They don't use the G# in these songs). I suppose I just don't think there is enough evidence. All apologies for my rambling. Sorry to subject you to that.
That's OK. Ramble On.
You have a valid point. Another commenter posted a link to Davy Graham's Cry Me a River from 1958. It's the same progression as Taurus. I went from there to his instrumental, Anji. What a great guitar song.
No apology req'd. I must agree. I liked your comment.
But, "Normally, I would completely agree. However,", what do you mean? or were you joking?
Except it was a stock chord progression. Any musician or anyone who knows about music will tell you this wasnt stealing.
Knowing Page's history of musical theft, I'd say he more than likely knicked it but four chords isn't enough for a case. It would have to be pretty significant amount of the melody or lyrics for SPIRIT to get a real claim.
Agreed. Speaking of musical theft, and not to change the subject…... He's not called, "the great pretender" by coincidence. Listen to Billy Joel's "Goodnight, Saigon", http://www.youtube.com/watc... which first appeared in 1982,and Thomas Dolby's "Airwaves" http://www.youtube.com/watc... which, wow, late 1981, part of "The Golden Age of Wireless", the great concept album. I do appreciate the heart and soul of "Goodnight Saigon", but there's too much similarity in the hook.
Exactly. Can any sequence of anything be copyrighted? What I play, what I sing, what I say?
The statute of limitations on a copyright claim is three years. If the plaintiff is arguing that the remastering is a new or derivative work then presumably he would only be entitled to royalties from the sale of those remastered versions. The $562 million would remain safely in Zep's pockets. See also my other comments.
It's good to know a lawyer .. with realistic expectations. I'd hire you.
If jimmy stole it then Spirit stole it from Davy Graham's cry me a riverPlus it was only a small guitar piece
I think the 6th time you've said that is sufficient.
Of course. I remember reading through countless books on chord progressions, and permutations thereof. So Mr.Jimmy Page, happened to repeat, what a 100 exercises in music instruction books. Oh brother, sounds like the lawyer/plaintiff are just greedy. If one can patent/copyright that, they why can't one copyright one's every spoken word, diction, style, nuance, as an artistic expression. "You can't say that. I already said that". Learning all, not just music, is copying, memorizing, the basics, and improvising, getting from A-B (then back to E).
That's like saying that creativity in music is for the mediocre
I don't think his saying implies to not be creative. I think his point was to have exposure to many artists and to learn as much as possible in order to have a big "toolbox" with which to express one's own voice. That being said, I'm still trying to prove him wrong...
I don't understand how having some musical knowledge or "vocabulary" is the same as stealing .
Yes. It is forbidden to venture out of the box.
I copyrighted the G chord, but alas, I've never seen a dime.
Wait. I thought I copyrighted the G chord! ..... "but ya know if you want to make a dollar, with the right attorney, we could split the damages".
Copyright laws to preserve some rights.. ok, Patent laws to preserve some rights... maybe ok ..?
Wait. How is our past, or anyone's influence in our past, against the law, for simply recalling it, or imitating it?
Ok, I have the D.. copyrighted... the particular way I play it.."without any skill at all". But a lot of others try without any skill at all.. now that's against the law?
Why isn't any memory device, recorder or anything even allowed in such a law abiding nation?
No, no, no- you've got it all wrong. Those same notes were first played on the lute by the Minstrel Monfarius in 1273 AD.
Dang, now there's a bustle in my hedgerow!
Don't be alarmed, now.
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
mean old may queen, taught me to weep and moan
and five passengers set sail that day for a three hour tour, a three hour tour...
Good times, bad times, now Spirit wants their share!