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Re: A Sincere Question For My Friends Who Believe In Hell

Owen Richard Kindig — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 01:06:27 -0000

I agree with Giselle on this one. Jesus suffered greatly and died in a very painful way. That was a huge sacrifice, and what may have been even greater was the separation he felt from his God while he was on the cross. And the ignominy of dying as a blasphemer against God.

But here's the thing. What Jesus sacrificed was the "body that God prepared for him." .... the human body that he received when he set aside the glory he had with the Father before the world was (as Jesus put it in his prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane in John 17) and became one of the lowest of God's intelligent creation, a human being. He continued to sacrifice by setting aside his own will, putting up with the arrogance and ignorance that surrounded him, and was touched with a feeling of human infirmities. He poured out his soul unto death. And when he died, he died as a man. But Peter says that Jesus was "put to death flesh, and made alive as a Spirit." He was different upon his resurrection... materializing first one body and then another, sometimes looking like his old human self and sometimes being nondescript as a gardener or some guy on the way to Emmaus. Appearing suddenly behind closed doors and then vanishing out of their sight. And finally, after 40 days, ascending to heaven... clearly not something a normal human being could do. So I would argue that yes he became immortal ... but not until his resurrection. It was then, and only then, that all power was given him in heaven and on earth. And he has been the Lord in the heavens since that time.

Here's where I might have to disagree with Giselle again: The thing that Jesus sacrificed was human, and went all the way to death of Jesus, body and soul as described in several scriptures including Acts 2:27 and Psalm 16:10. This was the "corresponding price" that Jesus' death provided. (1 Timothy 2:6) Only a man could die as a ransom for Adam ... but because we all came from Adam via heredity, Jesus' sacrifice or ransom provided exactly that for the entire world through the process of heredity: redemption from our inherited sin. That's the argument of Romans 5:17ff. And so it was a finite payment for a finite sin.

Most evangelicals today have adopted the radically different idea of redemption that first appeared when Augustine of Hippo introduced his ideas in The City of God: "God has infinite greatness. Therefore, an infinite punishment is fitting for a sin that is
committed against God." He taught that Jesus had to be a "God-man" --emphasis on the God part -- so that every infinite sin could be absorbed by an infinite being, because God has infinite anger ready to focus on it. I do not see such an idea in the Bible. What I see is Romans 5, where it says one single act of disobedience caused the Adamic curse. And one single act of righteous by Jesus brought the substitution or ransom or corresponding price (anti-lutron in Greek which offset that original sin. That's why Jesus had to be a man ... to offset the person and sin of Adam. And that sacrifice was total. The result will be the same thing Christians experience when they lay down their lives... a "new creature" ... spiritual in nature. That is what started growing in Jesus at Jordan and died along with Jesus' flesh on the cross.... and that is what was resurrected on the third day... and will have the power to bring the redemption Jesus purchased into reality for the entire human race. The resurrected Jesus is indeed Divine and all-powerful. And if Peter had it right, that is the same amazing transformation that is promised to Christians in the future, too, when they are resurrected. 2 Peter 1:4

Re: A Sincere Question For My Friends Who Believe In Hell

Owen Richard Kindig — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 00:32:02 -0000

Jeff, I am glad you are only clinging to a belief in a fiery hell out of respect for the Bible's authority and your desire to be obedient. May I suggest some thoughts about the verses you mention? Mark 9:30-50 is the record of conversations between Jesus and his disciples. I believe he is stating that for disciples who know the Lord and have entered into relationship with him, the stakes of obedience are high. He is speaking to Jews who live in and near Jerusalem and have a garbage heap called Gehenna ... where literal fires are burning and where criminal carcasses are destroyed by fire rather than decent burial. He tells his disciples that if they find that they are the seeing themselves stumbling into sin because of their eye or hand (lust of the eye or pride of life as John put it in his first epistle) they should figuratively speaking cut off their hand or eye. Not a literal statement to be sure, but a warning to his followers that they need to be very serious about striving against sinful habits of behavior. I believe that Gehenna is used in the Gospels in the same way that the "lake of fire" is used in Revelation. How does Jesus define Gehenna in the Gospels? In Matthew 10:28 Jesus says if we have any fear, it should be of God who can "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Note that he does not say "preserve soul and body in Gehenna". He says "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." That's what Gehenna is: a descriptive term that refers to annihilation. The soul of an incorrigible sinner is destroyed ... it is not kept alive in anguish forever as the Greek philosophers imagined. The body, of course, is destroyed in annihilation too. Jesus' soul died, not in Gehenna, but in hades ... simple oblivion or death from which the resurrection will ensue. But the soul of those judged to be sinners ... who have known God and chose to turn against him.... those souls will be destroyed. Or in the language of Revelation 20:14, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Is this conscious suffering? I think the text makes it clear what is meant by the descriptive language when it says plainly, " -- this is the second death." Note what is thrown there: death and hades. What things are described as going into the second death at the end of the millennium? The devil and his angels ... who after all were intelligent beings who knew God and yet turned against him. Also, "death" and "hades." I would argue that death is the Adamic curse upon the human race that was temporarily inflicted after disobedience, so that God would only need to redeem one man who was the progenitor of everyone else. That's the ransom or corresponding price that Jesus gave when he laid down his human life at Calvary. Romans 5 I think makes this crystal clear.

The Adamic curse of death upon all people is cast into the lake of fire ... annihilated. That means never again will someone die because of another man's sin. Isn't that what God promised in Jeremiah 31?

And Hades will also be cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of the Millennium. Hades is the condition of being dead. To annihilate the condition of death that billions of people have been claimed by, God will need to fulfill his many promises to resurrect all the dead who have ever lived. That's the only way to annihilate Hades. And that is exactly what Revelation 21, Zephaniah 3:8,9, John 5, Isaiah 25, and many other passages say will happen.

The Luke passage does not refer to second death at all, but simply the loss of privileges, and sense of missed opportunity, that many true Christians will feel when they realize their disappointment at having been unfaithful. They will still enter eternal life. Heaven is for all true Christians, and it will involve for them a change of nature to the spirit realm... while the vast majority of the human race will return to the earth in the Judgement day to learn from their mistakes and eventually live forever. True Christians have been trained for the great work of being mediators -- priests-- to help them learn the ways of God so that the entire family of God in Heaven and on Earth can find their one head in Christ. Ephesians 1:10

I'll be happy to discuss this with you further, Jeff, my brother.

Re: A Sincere Question For My Friends Who Believe In Hell

Owen Richard Kindig — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 00:16:46 -0000

Giselle, I deny that hell, that is hades or sheol is eternal as used in Scripture. I think a careful comparison of scripture with scripture will reveal to you that it is the state of all the dead due to the Adamic curse -- the dead who are awaiting the resurrection of all, both the just and the unjust. (See Acts 24:15) What are Christians saved from? Adamic, hereditary sin. What are non-Christians saved from? Adamic, hereditary sin. Jesus died as a ransom or corresponding price for ALL -- to be testified in due time. Our due time is now. We heard the call of Christ and became his disciples. How are we saved? In a very special way. (God is the savior of all men, specially those who believe [now]) We receive the opportunity of being kings and priests, and reigning with Christ in the earth. We will judge men, we will judge angels. We will shepherd the nations with a staff of iron. And we will do all of that in the heavenlies, as spiritual sons of God, immortal and incorruptible. Surely you have read these promises to Christians throughout the epistles. The rest of the world, on the other hand, will be saved from the Adamic curse as well, but without that "special" gift of a change to spiritual conditions. Theirs will be a resurrection upon the earth -- which will be restored, not destroyed. They, like us were children of wrath... born during the era of the wrath or judicial judgment of God against the sinful human race. But God loves all of the human race, and sent his son that whosoever believes on him... either in this age or in the Millennium, will be saved by his love. He didn't send Jesus to condemn the world (John 3:17) and tell them they were going to hell unless they responded RIGHT NOW, or else as Benji said be eternally punished for their 20 or 40 or 60 or 80 years of being a fallen citizen of a fallen world. No, he came so that the world through him might be SAVED. Saved from death. Saved from sin and moral confusion. Saved from alienation from God. Saved from separation from their loved ones and angst about their place in the world. No one was saved from eternal fiery hell because it was NEVER a reality and was NEVER a threat given to the human race. Have you ever read, really read, Romans 1? It clearly states that the wrath of God has already been revealed among the sons of men. The wrath of God is not some maw of fire that is waiting to swallow us up. The wrath of God is the Adamic curse, and it has been revealed ... everyone sees it. They see that they are dying. They see their loved ones get sick, and their children get run over or murdered. They feel loneliness, and they feel the loss of fellowship with God that Adam experienced and passed on to us. But the wrath of God is everywhere promised to come to an end. "His wrath is but for a moment." Weeping endures for a night, but Joy comes in the morning. Psalm 30:5 The Ransomed of the Lord --- EVERYONE -- return, and come to Zion (the government of God which true and faithful Christians of every denomination will comprise) with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads. They will obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing will flee away. Read Psalm 96. The judgment day is a happy day... because even though it will be uncomfortable for a mass murderer to meet all his victims and be required to apologize to them and serve them.... and even though it will be uncomfortable for preachers who everyone thought were great spiritual leaders to come back and admit they secretly were cheating on their wife or stealing from the church, the path of humility will lead to true redemption and happiness. It will be a day of darkness and clouds, but at evening time (the end of that thousand year day) it will be Light.

Re: Suggest a geeky gift for our second annual gift guide

Owen Richard Kindig — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:35:36 -0000

I bought this one for my wife the optician: http://www.snorgtees.com/t-...

Re: 'Cru' Official Demoted for Refusing to Let Women teach the Bible to Men | Religion Dispatches

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 15:20:30 -0000

I encourage everyone to read Phillip Payne's fantastic book, "Man and Woman, One in Christ." It examines all of the scriptures, especially Paul's arguments, and shows that women in the early church and by Paul's instructions were equal with men. The "keep silence/ask your husband" verses in 1 Cor 11:34-35 are shown to be an interpolation. The "head coverings" are shown to refer to keeping hair up according to Greek, Roman and Hebrew custom of the time (and in constrast to Dionysiac cults in which if a woman let her hair down it was a sign of lewd attitudes and demonic trances... and therefore scandalous to the church at that time. Best of all the book shows how fully the church is intended to give equal power to all nationalities, both male and female, and both rich and poor. Lifechanging read if you want to know what it means to be "in Christ."

Re: Perspective: I’m starting to understand why my parents said no

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:46:06 -0000

Wonderful story, Monica.

It reminds me of the recent discoveries about baby DNA residing in the mom, and giving her resistance to disease. Here's an example: http://www.lifesitenews.com...

If something had happened to you, part of your mom would have died. Maybe that's why when our youngest daughter was in Israel recently, my wife urged her to come home early when the Gaza troubles began, while I urged her to stay there and not worry... :-)

Re: The Lesson of the Olympics Coverage for NBC: Tell Then Show

Owen Richard Kindig — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 12:52:29 -0000

Thanks for an incisive analysis. It seems to me that this experience points up the fact that TV coverage can now concentrate on being what newspapers once were ... not the source of news for most people but a source of more perspective and depth. To the extent they do that, they don't disappoint.

Embracing the need to lend perspective is critical for their future success, it seems to me -- not just a breathless announcement of results. For that reason, I think they would be wise to get to the results sooner each evening, and jump from event to event more quickly... showing pivotal action, turning points, etc.

For folks who want to see the whole thing, without a spoiler, they could use their cable connections and internet reach to make the full unspoiled event available on a time-selected basis... you can watch either live or at any time that fits your schedule.

Does NBC have a different feed in each country, or do all nations have to watch the USA-centric view that we were supplied?

Re: The Secret Sexual Revolution

Owen Richard Kindig — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:03:37 -0000

I think it's instructive to remember that the original OT guidelines, which anchor Judeo-Christian tradition, provide that if two unmarried people have sex, there is no punishment... just a requirement that they marry and that in doing so they forfeit their right to divorce. God understood raging hormones.

I married at 20 and have been deliriously happy ever since. Except now, when economics are keeping my wife and I in separate cities for months at a time. It helps me sympathize with the struggles of guys and girls who are surrounded by sexy movies, advertising etc. but have chosen to remain abstinent until God opens the door. I'm sympathetic, but determined to live in obedience both mentally and physically. And there are far greater joys in waiting than in succumbing to temptation.

Re: The Best Strategy Can’t Fix A Broken Culture (video)

Owen Richard Kindig — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:26:20 -0000

I agree with your analysis, John. Great metaphor: Strategy is the instrument, Culture is the song. The song comes through with or without the instrument. It's the actual brand, and changing the instrument won't fix a song that is irritating or has the wrong words.

But I'd like to suggest you look for some different examples to make your point. Zappos' success is definitely a result of a core cultural focus on customers and an infectious cool-ness... I agree. But because it's a commercial enterprise that delivers what people want, I think there might be better examples, more germain to the non-profit world. How about "Charity Water" or "Not for Sale" as examples of non-profits that demonstrate your insights into authenticity? Just a suggestion.

Susan G. Komen is even more interesting as an example. I would argue that the culture there is not really that out of whack with their strategy. Their song and the guitar are attuned to one another. Yes, they are corporate, and have a very managed style of communication. But I think that fits their goal of cultivating corporate partners. I did a day of shooting at Procter & Gamble during the most recent Pink Week, and clearly it was their strategy that was able to marshall the cooperation of the company in getting the lobby decorated, the activities on company time permitted, the employee donations matched, etc.

I think there's a third part of this equation, and that's the reality of social or religious divides and how events can quickly bring external pressure to bear against a non-profit. I think the Planned Parenthood issue revealed the diversity of thought and the resulting crisis of conscience within the ranks of the Komen leadership. And lots of non-profits share these kinds of issues. Non-profits are usually a coalition of volunteers who are actuated by different motivations; ethical, religious, egalitarian, environmental, humanitarian and theological. Anti-trafficking groups are an example of this, as are most health-related groups like Komen. In a case like that, I don't see a clean way to resolve those internal fissures, which most of the time are tangential to the real focus of the organization. Certainly that was true in Komen's case; Planned Parenthood funding was a small part of their effort, and abortion services are a small part of Planned Parenthood's budget as well. Events revealed that some internal supporters of the big goal wanted to shift funds away from abortion services; the majority of the team didn't care.The public issue simply got too hot to handle, and exposed the human differences behind the corporate face of the agency. It took a divisive issue like abortion to focus external pressure and expose the internal difference, and turn it into a conflict.

How can any non-profit protect itself in advance from something like that? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

As for Komen, I'm guessing while people will leave and constituencies will realign around alternative breast cancer agencies, the overall strategy will remain the same and additional layers of message management will continue to gloss over any big questions that might be raised by the basic song they are singing. And in the long run, I doubt if it will hurt them.

Re: Is a Well-Lived Life Worth Anything?

Owen Richard Kindig — Fri, 13 May 2011 13:10:47 -0000

I have believed and valued these principles for 20 years. But I drove 50,000 miles a year with 2 cars to enjoy a "sustainable" and "no chemicals" life in the country while working in the city. I eschewed debt while being unable to break the debt cycle that kept my business afloat through down cycles, overproduction, and "necessary" equipment acquisitions. It took the sale of all my assets and a personal bankruptcy to bring my walk in line with my talk. It took my dad's suffering and death from diabetes to make me change my eating habits. Perhaps others besides me will encounter the same reality: we're part of the problem until the problem lifestyles become not only unthinkable, but undoable for us.

Re: Wake Up PR and Advertising! You’re Blowing It!

Owen Richard Kindig — Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:36:42 -0000

I agree with your assessment that the economic models and the self-imposed habits of engagement go hand in hand. I like the fact you are one of the 1 in 10,000 who are cutting at the roots, instead of hacking at the branches, to paraphrase Thoreau. When I was doing hobby farming, it was the same thing... the new guys had a fresh way of seeing farming, both in practice and as an economic engine ... and that's what gave us the organic/sustainable/subscription/suburban farms we see today.

Re: When It Is Time To Leave Your Job

Owen Richard Kindig — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:01:27 -0000

Thanks, Ken. Relevant and realistic. A number of years ago I left a company for 4 reasons. Two were numbers 3 & 4 on your list. But the biggest reasons in my case were somewhat different from your first two items:

1. While my job didn't focus on my weaknesses, it didn't play to my greatest strength, creativity.

2. While I had just had a promotion, I felt insecure with the owner's children appearing to be destined to be my boss one day. I wanted to escape nepotism.

What's funny is that in my next job, nepotism in the form of the owner's nephew created major headaches. I learned that you can't escape human nature: there will always be people who are jealous of talent who need to be won over through kindness and self-sacrifice.

And the opportunity for creative expression never materialized until I started my own company and began to be rewarded by clients who were willing to pay for it.

But then, I learned that when given full expression of our own ideas, we still need counter-balancing forces and conflict in order to bring those strengths into full actualization through the mitigation of our weaknesses. So are we going to experience conflict with a Controller or a wife/bookkeeper? an IT department or a computer that doesn't understand English?

Be sure to tell your readers that there is a yin and yang in every situation of life... and we need to hold our own feet to the flame in order to learn the most from it.

Re: How to Reinvent Yourself in 3 (Not-So) Easy Steps

Owen Richard Kindig — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:55:06 -0000

I feel like a Tac Anderson fanboy the last 2 days but, really, man, you've been on a roll lately and I'm resonating with you!

Re: Dear Book Publishers, Here’s How to Get Me To Switch to ebooks.

Owen Richard Kindig — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:14:14 -0000

I'm working with a content publishing startup that will be going live in the next couple of months with a publishing platform that includes audio syncd to text, video, and direct access to facebook and other social media on a paragraph or sentence basis. This will allow a much higher level of interaction with a community, or the author herself. And it'll all run on your iPhone, iPad, or Android phone. It'll probably be a while till Amazon embraces or duplicates the concept, but I think that's where we're headed. For now, I'm sticking with my similar piles of books.

As to the cost issue, the savings between electronic and print are not as great as we'd like to think. And the real value is the content... the research and hopefully original thinking and artistry of the author. So I'm OK with ebooks costing with 10 or 20% of the cost of a paper book. And for me, shipping is usually at least 25% or more of the cost. Heck, I often buy $.01 books used that cost me $3.99 to mail.

Re: Introverts Make Better Networkers

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 02:14:01 -0000

As always, Tac, I like the way you think and write. That introvert/extrovert line, though is a lot like football in that it's a game of inches. You strike me as more thoughtful than most, and showing a strong preference for substance over style. Not exactly stereotypical qualities of an extrovert. So I'll play my ENFP playful dude card and say the title of your article may fit my favorite teacher's favorite maxim: "All generalizations are false." :-)

Re: Why is Gen X so Entrepreneurial? Dysfunction.

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:23:39 -0000

Interesting post. I have two Gen X daughters (33, 31) and two Gen Y. (24, 21) There's entrepreneurial drive in my younger GenXer... but I'd say all of them are adventuresome yet more interested in people stuff than business. Farming. Gardening. Travel. Does this mean we had a functional home? Don't you dare ask them!

But I was definitely a latch-key kid from about 2nd grade on. A bunch of memories just came flooding back: At 8 to 10, I spent hours every day having dirt clod wars and building stuff with scrap lumber as I played without supervision in literally dozens of home construction sites behind our house. At 12 I rode the bus downtown and introduced myself to the mayor of Columbus (a great experience - he spent an hour with me). At 15 I climbed a barb-wire fence to shoot a photo essay at an abandoned baseball park ... and got chased by 2 snarling German Shepherds. (Think "sic balls" from "Stand by Me"!) At 16 I got excused from classes for most of a month while I drove around the state shooting fish kills, air pollution, garbage dumps and strip mining for a self-produced slide show for the first Earth Day. So now that I think about it, I believe you are right: a dysfunctional childhood does correlate with the entrepreneurial itch!

Re: My 6 Minutes of Fame

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:27:49 -0000

Nice job, Tac. I liked your Wow moment; I had the same one. In other words, being a SWP is not the same as being insane!

Re: How To Become An Overnight Expert In 3 Years

Owen Richard Kindig — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:23:09 -0000

An IBM executive I once knew told me that by consistently reading the latest literature of the field for half an hour every day, without fail, one can become an expert in that field within two years. Of course, this assumes we're talking about a fairly narrow field: "grass fed beef", "online libraries", "passive solar electric generation", "authenticity in persuasive video". It also assumes that the day-to-day opportunities for expression and activity are also relevant to the field. Which is why only active doctors could become experts in a particular specialty such as diabetes diet management or vasectomy reversal surgery. So experts need to A. Stay abreast of what others are doing and unlearn/re-learn constantly; B. Practice the specialty; and C. Talk/write about it regularly. In my opinion anything else is just, as Seth Godin would put it, branding, but not a true brand.

Re: The Future of Social Media has Arrived! The War is Over!

Owen Richard Kindig — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:43:44 -0000

As usual, informative. From where I sit it never really felt like a war, though. Instead of enemies fighting, it feels like an invasion by weeds. Pretty weeds, with nice flowers, but I'm sort of wondering whether we'll all be so overwhelmed by these vines before long, that we will wish the media were still there to frame the discussion again.

We're losing expert, in-depth reporters; travel agents; and before long, realtors. Anyone whose job existed because they were able to know more than someone else is going to have to fight The Vine for sunlight, space, and water. Over the next decade, many colleges, libraries, book stores, and book publishers will be heavily threatened.

Not that there's any going back.

Re: Agencies Get Out of Your Client’s Way

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:28:18 -0000

Thanks for zeroing in on the gist of my awkwardly worded post of last night! I agree with all you say in reply... there have got to be other agencies that think a lot like WE... I've just never encountered any and the kind of fresh thinking I've observed at WE probably doesn't permeate all client relationships even there. In fact, a lot of it depends on the clients themselves... what they expect or need. Plus, you're in a more progressive part of the country. I've worked mostly with large midwest agencies and New York & Boston firms. I'm sure clients as well as agency cultures are different in the Northwest.

Galenson is an economist who has been studying creativity for a good while. His most recent book is Old Masters and Young Geniuses. Among artists, Picasso and Cezanne are two masters who illustrate the difference in style. Galenson ties it to the age of the artist but my thinking is it doesn't matter how old guys are, there are always 2 distinct ways of approaching creative challenges. For example, among movie directors Francis Ford Coppola, Quentin Tarantino, Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock and Martin Scorsese typify the conceptual innovator type, who know exactly what they want inside their mind when they start.

More collaborative, "experimental innovators" would be Ron Howard, Barry Levinson, Steven Spielberg, Lasse Hallstrom, Norman Jewison, Rob Reiner, Harold Ramis, Peter Weir, Spike Lee, Nora Ephron.

I'm not really sure which category Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford fall into. I'd guess they know exactly what they want ahead of time, and see it in their mind, but are highly adept at letting actors and cinematographers make minor contributions without having to throw their directorial weight around on the set. Actors' directors who can give the illusion of collaboration... and use low-key persuasion. The best of both worlds.

Seth Godin's recent TED talk on Tribes starts with just how big a paradigm shift communicators need to make... and I think the whole game is being turned upside-down faster than most agencies can adapt. In fact, most agencies won't even be needed or wanted within the next 20 years.

Re: Agencies Get Out of Your Client’s Way

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:54:42 -0000

Good analysis but I've never seen an agency do any of your three things well. True strategic thinking would have to divorce itself from the foregone conclusion that the agency will get to do ads and other big-ticket billable stuff. So what passes for strategic thinking is usually just a way of setting the hook, building momentum for the big gig.

I've seen lots of agencies that were good at client service in the sense of personal face-time to shield clients from the bumps and swerves of the creative process. But I've never seen an account exec who had so thoroughly internalized the client's business that s/he could serve as an independent, objective source of intelligence and observation of trends, economic and demographic factors that a CEO would need to truly navigate in rough waters, etc. Every AE I've observed has ultimately had the agency's interests and biases at heart, and their role has been to insulate the client from discomfort, not connect the client with gritty reality. Agencies tend to focus on changing customer perceptions, not changing the business.

And while agencies are often quite good at generating mediated content, finding clever ways to tell the brand story to particular audiences ... I have never seen an agency teach itself out of a content-creating role. To do so would be economic suicide. I haven't even seen agencies who were any good at hands-on content-creation themselves -- actual filming or interviewing or editing. They tend to hire production companies to execute on their vision... but are uncomfortable if they cannot prescribe the result from the start. Allowing people to talk on film without scripting feels like an abdication of responsibility to every agency I have ever worked with.

The agency ethos as I have observed it always involves what David Galenson calls conceptual innovation -- dreaming up ideas that fulfill a creative or branding goal. I've never seen agencies that were good at what Galenson calls experimental innovation, which is the kind of content development I think you are looking for in the fully interactive, scale-the-rock-face-without-a-rope world of social media dialog, Tac.

The truth is that Waggener Edstrom is the first PR or Advertising agency I've ever encountered that seems to have a feel for experimental innovation, and is therefore the only agency I've ever thought I'd like to be associated with.

When you talk about agencies, plural, doing these three things, I wonder if you realize how radically different your culture is from most influence firms.... and how refreshing that difference is for those of us who dislike the "madmen" model.

Re: The Calm Because of the (Social Media) Storm

Owen Richard Kindig — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:04:03 -0000

Incisive as usual. For you, SM currency is mission-critical. For me at the moment, it's a virtual way to add conversation and community during the long weeks of sitting alone in the country, editing college admissions videos. And it's also a way for me to add useful service tools for my clients. Right now I'm working with two diff developers to create pilot iPhone aps for two college admissions frontiers: GPS tours and sharing video/info/relational links.

Guys like you have found a channel of information that's very helpful to guys like me. Keep it coming, when you're not at the eye of the storm.

Re: Big is Broken

Owen Richard Kindig — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:49:41 -0000

Cool thots... a few quick comments before I get back to my Big deadline!

Big real estate looks like it's going to take a dive, too: http://bit.ly/35o3dZ

Wal-Marts and McDonalds' to the contrary, I think you're agreeing with Peter Drucker:
"Suppliers, and especially manufacturers, have market power because they have information about a product or a service that the customer does not and cannot have, and does not need if he can trust the brand. This explains the profitability of brands."

Gladwell agrees, too, in a great essay on bigness in wars: http://bit.ly/Fn5qM

Re: The horse that brought me here.

Owen Richard Kindig — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:35:43 -0000

I like your story, Tac. Lots of similarities with mine. I'll try to look you up next time I come to Seattle.