Disqus - Latest Comments for timwatts

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Fri, 07 May 2010 12:00:58 -0000

which thesis where you thinking of tearing apart>?

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Wed, 05 May 2010 13:05:39 -0000

It's nice to see you interpreting the words so readily to conform to your predujice what a fortunate alignement...please feel free to stick your interpretations where the sun don't shine and even if you think it consider the harm you are inflicting of gay people by spreading lies and deceit about their very beings....

What the last bit of your rant means I am afrais escapes me. What treatment of homosexuals are you talking about...yours maybe. Yes i am certain that such luminaries and compassionate people would shrink away from your treatment....alas i feel you don't understand what you are writing...

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Wed, 05 May 2010 08:13:19 -0000

In all of this my thinking has been guided by the following. I cannon help but think that if i believe the founders of the faith to be as they claim then there cannot be a condemnation of gays at all and if there is it must be a mistake. If of course there is evidence that would convince me that the all loving god almighty who kniows me better than myself would send messengers to tell me that the lifestyle i have...which is due to the fact that i am a gay healthy man...is wrong and agaist the law of man nature god etc then they must be false messengers....

if of couse they are false then all this talk of ruhi sand guardianshop uhj etc is only so much bolloney as our american cousins might say.

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Wed, 05 May 2010 06:02:58 -0000

Your position is an intersting one...you state above that being a homosexal is not a sin or evil and homo eroticism likewise but you say that therapy for acting on the inevitable consequences of being gay.

This is tantamont to saying that the abilty to speak is completely normal but if you do speak you should try therapy..

I will go and get therapy for being gay if you will for being black...both issues are beyond the control of the individual.

and good luck with those lesbian couples that you invite to eat at your home...did you invite them to prove that you werent homophobic... cos i asm not rascist either as some of my friends know some black people.

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:46:57 -0000

alleged ban on homosexuality :-)

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 03:53:57 -0000

The crowd outside Lots house refused the offered virgin daughters as they were all gay men wanting and long tern gay relationship is that it? even the women in the crowd? What exactly is a homosexual act..is it sodomy? why have you designated it a homosexual act? what about oral sex?

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 03:30:51 -0000

....And thus this is how we know the world to be banana shaped........

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:23:54 -0000

the onmly confusion likely in the minds of seekers is how come the bahais are big on equality and respect when they discrimiate agains gays and women on the flimsiest of pretexts....most modern young people would run a mile rather than attend a fireside run by a bunch of fundamentalist loonies who have twisted their own hold writings to conform to and align with thieir own outdated prejudices....

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:20:50 -0000

you cannot practice homosexuality any more than heterosexualtiy in public...gays cannot be ungayed when in public thats what they are..if you mean have sex in public..i dont think anyone wants that right...you really are living in the 18th century

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:57:18 -0000

you do a lot of rolling on the floor laughing don't you....i dont think we are laughing though...your and they are just yours views are hateful and homophobic. we should ignore you really but you are like a scab..cant help but pick

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:49:29 -0000

every word you spout is an attack on me and my very being....

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:41:01 -0000

backed up my claim that something doesnt exist??????? ok and maybe i should reseach the non existance of the tooth fairy when i have the time....i didnt need to i am a GAY man and I would have noticed the news headlines...GAY GENE FOUND.....you are wrong about this and the thing you said about leviticus and i recall you said i should acknowledge my errror....still waiting for you to back up what you said about the fisrt 16 chapters...i could find it anywhere....

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:26:15 -0000

Bahaullah never refered to anything as heterosexual or homosexual for that matter....you are interpreting the writings through your preduiced eyes....

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:16:58 -0000

no DUDE i am not. you are a trouble maker who knows next to nothing about hte issues. I am saying the iranian government offers gender reassignement surgery to gays regardless of wether they are transgendered or not as they do not understand ,..erm like you that gays men are not women trapped in men's bodies...you make me sick DUDE. One of the causes of homosexuality indeed. Are you from a village in the hindu kush? you know nothing....

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:09:58 -0000

there was never a ban in the first place.....your quotes do not refer to gay people as we know them today....you have been shown other interpretations but you choose to ignore them thats ok but everyone does not interpret the bible passesges as you do so be content keep your view we wioll keep ours...we disagree so what...

elsewhere you state that transgender(ism) is one of the casues of homosexulity...again you state second out outdated nazi like science and expect us to treat you with more that the ridicule you deserve...you are out of your league...i trust you have read sonja's post and feel ustly ashamed of the hurt you have caused.

As for your dislike of the word faggot ...again this ust show that you know nothing about the issues. gay peeple have reclaimed several pejorative words and by doing so have rendered them powerless to hurt us.

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 05:05:06 -0000

this was between men and children ie people unable to make rational decisions...that you cannot see the difference between pedophilia and gay loving relationships says a lot about you fahan...this is called prejudice.

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:29:07 -0000

maybe you could gender re assign some male heterosexuals and then they could be lesbians...where will your nazi experiements end.....any was i just been the to the doctors and told him i was gay and although felt no way like a woman or have any woman like sentiments i wanted to be surgectly changed into a woman.....so the iraniian goverment wouldnt execute me......guess what he said?

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:25:37 -0000

You quote experiments from the 40s you use tems incorrectly..you name structures in the brain wrongly you insisted that there was a gay gene and rudely told me to seach the internet if i didnt beleive you....i didnt as i already knew thanks....i may not be a geneticist but you dont have to be...you have repeated yet again the knowledge of one of your friends and chinese whipser like mangled up the message....1940's science experiments ..oh yes the NAZIS did this on jews maybe the UHJ can do it on faggots!

Re: Change is a Law of Nature

timwatts — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 11:22:31 -0000

Again wrong wrong and wrong again....all voluntary organisations are bound by the rule of law. This is a particularly hurtful remark and smacks of someone having lost the debate. What about a gay 16 year old are they, if born into a bahai way of life, just to say i dont agree with the baha'i point of view and up and leave ? how callous! How cruel! How fundamentalist...!

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:15:03 -0000

extremely scary pseudo-science.....more and morelike nazi doctors....and its TIM who the hell is Tom?

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 03:39:17 -0000

Of course you are responsible for me emotions if your words are hurtful and i have told you that they are....as for the levitis assertion you made you produve no evidence to support it. To follow your logic here and elsewhere you are agasin eating a meal with an eygtian and wearing garments of a different thread and eating meat and dairy products together SINCE i read nowhere that Baha u ll ah has lifted the "alleged" ban on these also mentioned in leviticus....anyway...i read this and thought i would show you another interprestion ...

Study Of Leviticus 18-20 "Abomination"
The background of Leviticus is important to understand. The people are being told not to act like the "pagans". This is also the format Paul uses in Romans. "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel's priests. This prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of the idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans who worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. It also is included with other Mosaic laws such as required killing kids who curse their parents, the death penalty for picking up sticks or doing other work on the Sabbath, and under the law, slave-beating was a protected legal right!

From a Jewish prospective, the commandments given at Sinai, including those of Leviticus (in Hebrew Jews simply name a book after the first word that appears - "V'yikra" - which means "then he spoke") were given to the Jewish people. Since they were only commanded to Jews, no one who is not Jewish need worry about obeying them. Judaism holds God taught basic laws to all humanity before Sinai (no murder, rape, etc), but that the more specific laws such as in Leviticus, apply only to Jews.

Lev 20:13 is giving the penalties for the Lev 18:22 "abomination" or in the Hebrew "toevah" Unlike what the English translation implies, toevah did not usually signify something intrinsically evil, but something ritually unclean for Jews. Eating pork, shellfish, lobster, eating meat 3 days old, trimming beards, etc is just as much an "abomination". It is used throughout the OT to designate those Jewish sins which involve ethnic contamination or idolatry. In many other OT verses it simply means idolatry. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans among whom they had been living. The prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality.

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:58:56 -0000

merci aziz am agha farsi baladi omidaram ke mifarmi che migam, to pesar ali hasti ....gorboonet beram tim

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 06:12:40 -0000

"to'ebah" means a condemned, foreign, Pagan, religious, cult practice, but often simply translated as "abomination." Eating food which contains both meat and dairy products is "to'ebah" A Jew having a meal with an Egyptian was "to'ebah." A Jew wearing a polyester-cotton garment, or having a tattoo is "to'ebah" today

YOU HAVE INTERPRETED THE PASSAGES IN THE BIBLE AND ELSWHERE AS REFERRING TO HOMOHSEXUALITY. PLEASE ACCCEPT THAT THERE ARE OTHER INTERPRETATIONS THAN YOUR OWN. YOU ARE ATTEMPTING IN WHAT YOU WRITE TO USE YOUR INTERPRETATION TO CONDEMN OTHER PEOPLE FOR THEIR LIFESTYLES. THIS IS UNJUST UNKIND AND INSULTING. YOUR HANDLE IS ALSO MIS LEADING AS THERE ARE OTHER BAHAIS WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU. YOU ARE HOMOPHOBIC BY REPEATED YOUR INTERPRETATIONS WITHOUT TAKING THE TIME TO LOOK AT OTHERS.

WHICH HOMKOSEXUALS ARE YOU CITING THAT CLAIM THAT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS A CHOICE...PLEASE GET ONE TO POST. ITS NOT A QUESTION OF BELEIF BUT FACT.

I SAID I WOULD IGNORE YOU BECAUSE YOUR POSTS WERE UPSETTING ME WITH THEIR PREDUJICE AND FALSEHOODS..AND THEN YOU SAY IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR ETC...WHAT DO YOU MEAN ISNT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE UPSETTING ME ENOUGH! YOU ARE VERY ARROGANT AND THIS IS PART OF YOUR PROBLEM YOU MAKE UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTIONS AND THEN PASS THEM OFF AS FACT...

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 06:41:51 -0000

“There is no ban against homosexuality in the Torah or the Quran....And anywat Jesus abrogated the laws of the tarah for Christians.”

Sure the Christ abrogated the law but just as with Bahá'u'lláh there is no indication of him abrogating that law. Her is a very clear quote from the Torah

It’s not normal for Christ to be referred to as the Christ by the way. Did you re read what you said? I repeat there is no law against Homosexuality as we know the term today in any biblical writing.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus was written as a book of laws for jewish rabbis it wasn’t even intended for the jewish population in general. It’s interesting to note that you agree with the putting to death of gays then if you believe this refers to them...and people who wear garments of different cloth maybe because that prohibition is also there. You should look up the word Abomination and find out what it mean in Biblical terms.

And several from the holy Quran

"We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175)

"Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58)

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29)

"If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:15-16)

“That wasn’t my point. If couples who knowing cannot have a baby engage in sex should they not be restraining themselves according to your double speak,”

Well I read carefully through this and didn’t find one reference for homosexuality. Maybe if you translated “lewdness” as homosexuality and then get Mohamed (PBOH) to authorise your interpretation then maybe otherwise please shut your bigoted mouth. In fact I am going to ignore you too from now on. You clearly don’t understand what you are regurgitating and I find reading what you write upsetting and demeaning...you must be a baha’i after all. !

I never said anything about that I merely said that biology tells us that the purpose of sex is procuration. Biology does not say that infertile cupules should restrain themselves neither does the Faith.

“Agains not my point....you are implying something else has been said then writing about it. This is most annoying. See point above about restraint yes my point is that”

No I understood it let me explain myself better. Even if a healthy fertile couple has intercourse it doesn’t always result in a ovum being fertilized so if you are suggesting that it’s a “sin” because an ovum is not fertilized the most sex is a “sin” and that’s silly

“Thanks for your potted evolution lesson...by this account organisms that reproduced asexually should have died out by now...how to you account for their continued existence,,,some do both by the way. There is very little evidence to suggest that human kind is successful in Bilogigal terms given the very short span of geological time we have been here...that cant be said for some micro organisims....”

“Not necessarily It could also mean that those organisms live in a stable environment that favors ether phenotype, which is the case, look at any micro-biologic. Biology does not assume success. If it did the fact we are still around and live in almost every climate (even space) should be enough. “

“There is no conclusinve evidence of a GAY gene....that the human genome has been mapped is one thing. The functions and interactions of the various genes certainly has not. You are talking non sense. And again you make the insulting assumption that gay people do not have children...my last partner had 2 of his own...both straight girls would you believe....”

There has been considerable research done just Google it. I never suggested that homosexuals don’t have children. I said that heterosexual sex is required to have a baby, now I suppose that a person could have a child by artificial insemination but this is a relatively new technology.

“Where in the faith does this take place....considering what FAITH actually means. Letters written in the 50’s certainly does not constitute the faith. Even SE when he is interpreting the holy writings.”

The UHJ has written about this in the 90’s. Just look it up on ocean.

“They say they do it...how can you possibly know...?”

How could you possably know that they don’t

“So Baha’is are evolutionists now are they? Mmmm again you are saying things lkike adopting a homosexual preference as if it were a choice in human beings...you are again wrong in your assumptions. Gay people do not have a choice in their “preference”

The Bahá'í faith and the science of evolution are in complete harmony. And I know several Bahá’í biologists. whether or not it’s a choice it still has not been observed except with genetically altered fruit flies. And as I said before not everybody agrees with you. There are even members of the homosexual community that believe it is a choice.

Re: Universal House of Justice: Results of By-Election

timwatts — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 04:49:18 -0000

`Abdu'l-Bahá is clear that the UHJ’s will is God’s will. They have the ability to legislate on matters not touched on by the central figures (as you suggest). And since Bahá'u'lláh did not change the ban against homosexuality written in the Torah and confirmed in the Quran, and banned the “brotherhood shurahs” (that’s the subject of boys he was referring to) And sodomy. And because of the letters written on Shoghi Effendi’s behalf. And the establishment of Bahá’í marriage These all show a preponderance of evidence and it is unlikely that the UHJ will ever change their position. And even if they did we are still required to be obedient to then now.

There is no ban against homosexuality in the Torah or the Quran....And anywat Jesus abrogated the laws of the tarah for Christians.

Yes I am sure. I have had my rights taken from me because of my work with radical political orgs (anti-drugwar, anarchists, antiwar groups you name it lol that’s college for you lol yes even pro homosexual movements. I was part of the GSA I even started a militant homosexual group that was called “Bash Back” in salt lake city, but it never really caught on lol). I eventually calmed down and was given my rights back after significant personal growth. And I never suggested non-Bahá’ís could not attend feast. They can either step out during the administrative section or the Bahá’ís can hold a community feast that has no administrative section. and the UHJ actually requires us to not turn away non-Bahá’ís from feast. So if this has happened you need to report it to either to the auxiliary board or the NSA.

Biology doesn’t tell you who you can have sex with only that the purpose of sex is procreation. Even perfectly healthy people that have sex are not guaranteed to produce a baby.
That wasn’t my point. If couples who knowing cannot have a baby engage in sex should they not be restraining themselves according to your double speak,

“Are you saying that married couples who engage in non penetrative sex are which doesn’t lead to the fertilization of an ovum are committing sin?” lol no this is nearly imposable and would most likely require the assistance of a doctor.
Agains not my point....you are implying something else has been said then writing about it. This is most annoying. See point above about restraint

Yes sex. You see originally organisms reproduced asexually and thus passed on all their weakness to the entire population so if the environment changed in a way that did not favor them the entire population died. Sexual reproduction, where genetics are mixed, allowed for a more robust foundation were populations could have varied traits and would more likely survive changes in the environment..
Thanks for your potted evolution lesson...by this account organisms that reproduced asexually should have died out by now...how to you account for their continued existence,,,some do both by the way. There is very little evidence to suggest that human kind is successful in Bilogigal terms given the very short span of geological time we have been here...that cant be said for some micro organisims....

Yes genetics is the science of genes, They have recently mapped the entire human genome it took a long time but they finally did it. And there is plenty of research out there I’m surprised you haven’t seen it, this research is usually used against less scientifically harmonized religions. And think about it if a pure homosexual gene existed on that had absolute control over your sexuality it would be immediately extinct as the homosexual phenotype would never be passed down (because the passing of genes requires heterosexual sex).

There is no conclusinve evidence of a GAY gene....that the human genome has been mapped is one thing. The functions and interactions of the various genes certainly has not. You are talking non sense. And again you make the insulting assumption that gay people do not have children...my last partner had 2 of his own...both straight girls would you believe....

Thank you for your concern. I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you taking the time to say so it means a lot to me. alcoholism and alcohol in general is a horrible thing. I wish had of stayed obedient. I would have a much easier life.

Only the “soft” sciences say “homosexuality is a normal part of the human spectrum of sexualities” and the social sciences are always changing and are at the mercy of politics. The “hard” sciences are clear and but can also be at the mercy of politics. A good example of this is sexual education does not include the many risks of anal sex, because this is seen as “politically incorrect” and not sensitive.

Im not associating them The Faith is. Both alcoholism and homosexuality are considered spiritual diseases by the Faith. Though I’m sure you don’t agree.
Where in the faith does this take place....considering what FAITH actually means. Letters written in the 50’s certainly does not constitute the faith. Even SE when he is interpreting the holy writings.

If you think this is nonsense ur gona have to take that up with “This American Life”

Celibacy is completely possible people do it all the time.

They say they do it...how can you possibly know...?

This is not my interpretation, I am going by what the UHJ has said, and the UHJ is clear and there authority is clear.
If you have problems with your LSA contact your auxiliary board member for protection or the NSA.
No you see evolutionally speaking we are animals too and this argument is used in response to the “its not natural” statement. And I agree that animals have homosexual sex but this is often acts of dominance or done as a result of a sexually homogenous community. What has not been observed in animals having the option of heterosexual sex but constantly choosing homosexual sex. I.e. adopting a homosexual preference

So Baha’is are evolutionists now are they? Mmmm again you are saying things lkike adopting a homosexual preference as if it were a choice in human beings...you are again wrong in your assumptions. Gay people do not have a choice in their “preference”