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Re: Tumbld Rants - Recent net search into Quakerranter.org: “Why do...

tesmith — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:54:38 -0000

If we look at 1000's of years of history, when we think "empires" how long have "evil" ones lasted compared to those of Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu, Jesus, etc.. What happened to "enemies" at the conclusion of WWI when "evil" empires were punished (did they keep going?) as compared to the end of WWII when "enemies" became friends in a short number of years?

Re: Same as it ever was

tesmith — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 07:44:00 -0000

I wonder if convergent is more of a description of many Friends' journeys to Quakerism (I am uncomfortable with the "ism" part, but can't seem to find a better single word or very short phrase). For many years I have felt that many Quakers are "coming together" FROM something rather than TO something. If there is an aspect of their religious affiliation that no longer seems to fit, then they have found some place where "anything" seems to fit. Inevitably, using a color analogy, this leads to either a muddled gray (actually usually a brownish color but in deference to tradition-grey (I know I used both spellings for both sides oft he Atlantic) or clashing colors. I personally suspect that Quaker Institution and Quaker "religion" are both oxymorons, at least from my understanding of institution as an established place for maintaining a given situation and of religion as a giving of allegiance to a defined set of beliefs.

I would hope that rather, than a muddled gray of spiritual confusion, we could become more of a beautiful tapestry that has very unique distinct colors (colours) but which when seen as a whole become a beautiful whole. I think the distinctive colors are critical in that each is clearly defined and does not try to claim to be the "true" color or the only color that "fits." I also recognize that individual threads tend to get "lost" in a larger picture and that it is a collection of same color threads that provide greater impact.

My suspicions are that one of the difficulties that many, including myself, see in the Quaker "divisions " is that each seems to claim they are the "true" Quakers. It might be better if we could somehow agree that "we" are actually widely divergent groups which claim to be derived from a 350 (2000?) year old tradition. I would hope that Convergent tends to be more of a convergence with "primitive Christianity." This primitive Christianity revived might actually take the core of the message of Jesus as interpreted by varying sources, but which relies on "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." God in this context does NOT seem to be the god of the Jews, Samaritans, Pharisees, Sadducees, Romans, Greeks, etc. just as neighbor also includes "our worst enemies," (i.e. Samaritans)

Re: How Insiders and Seekers Use the Quaker Net

tesmith — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:17:11 -0000

Martin,
I completely agree with you that Quaker tradition shouldn't be blanket
permission. My father was and I have been a pastor within FUM. I have also
worked with EFI individuals. My experience is that the "Fundamentalist" side
of Quakerism seems to rely too extensively on literalism and stuck with a
very exclusive and narrow view of "Christianity." My experience with
"liberal" Quakers (with whom I have come to more closely identify with in
the past few decades) have lost a great deal of the Friends Tradition. The
inclusiveness that seems to be an underlying assumption is taken to the
point of not just tolerance but acceptance of a very wide belief base that
dilutes the power of "Friends Experience." (Obviously biased. but I think
rightfully so, and hopefully not PREjudgemental) The celebration of
diversity and tolerance/love of enemy does not mean agreement with their
beliefs or actions but acceptance of their worth and value as having that of
God within them.

My personal belief is that the "2" sides have continued to push each other
further apart and thus further from the Center. (You know that to get 3
opinions you need ask only 2 Quakers.)

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

In Peace and Friendship,

Tom Smith

Re: How Insiders and Seekers Use the Quaker Net

tesmith — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:59:18 -0000

I have wondered at various times if "Quaker institution" is (or should be) an oxymoron. Can Seekers of Truth, believers in Continuing Revelation, etc. be content with something that almost by definition is intended to maintain something in place.