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Re: Background for a Letter of Correction to the Recent Harper Letter of Half Truths

sweetlibertybelle — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:21:09 -0000

Dark Knight sets up support for his whole argument, and then revisits the same in conclusion, based on the fallacious premise that Bob Harper is to be discredited based on his profession. That is classic use of ad fontem argument, specifically ad hominem circumstantial and begs that we then follow his point by point rebuttal under the premise that whatever is put forward must be true because Bob Harper is not to be trusted. Why not just put forward the rebuttal points without also attacking the man? Can it be assumed that without the use of fallicy as support for the argument, the rebuttal would not be persuasive?

I'm still waiting to hear good argument for why bigger government and higher taxes are needed in our community in this economic environment and why we should trust the good people in our government to just know what is best for us. Preferably without the use of Latin in any form or fashion.

Re: Background for a Letter of Correction to the Recent Harper Letter of Half Truths

sweetlibertybelle — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:04:06 -0000

You've attempted to support your whole argument on genetic fallacy and ad hominem circumstantial. (Bob Harper shouldn't be trusted because the very nature of his profession makes him a professional liar). Although I may have been able to overlook the fallacy to follow your point by point rebuttal, you lost me entirely with your curious praise of Jasper county for engaging in the socialistic practice of redistribution of wealth ("... from those least able to pay to those most able to pay") as somehow a just and responsible role of government.

For those who support the RTA, maybe you can clear something up for me. Which of your arguments is true? Either there are no jobs (with ever growing unemployment) in the region and we cannot keep people here so naturally the rebuilding of the infrastructure would encourage jobs to appear in the region and encourage economic growth, or, we are being overrun by overwhelming growth (and studies and projections of future growth)and congestion in the region so we would therefore be foolish not to rebuild the infrastructure right now. Which is it?

You argue that the RTA streamlines government bureaucracy by combining boards and functions, not just builds new ones. Well, I can combine my monthly grocery bill and auto expenses and give the combination a fancy new name, but I haven't cut a single ounce of spending...and it really isn't anymore convenient or less burdensome to lump them all together. By lumping old boards together (and giving them a fancy new name) and building new ones (even just one), you haven't streamlined anything, and you are, indeed, creating further government bureaucracy...you've just conveniently given it a fashionable new look...that will cost more.

State tax, local tax, income tax...tax is tax, whatever the flavor. Arguing that one tax is this kind of tax but not that kind of tax and this tax would be that kind of tax but not the other, in hopes that no one will notice that it is STILL A TAX (a RAISE IN TAX at that!) is like watching a half-rate magician try to pull off a slide-of-hand trick while he forgets himself which hand he is supposed to use.

"...the inevitable growth of our county due to its strategic location at the tip of Lake Michigan and close proximity to the third largest economy in the nation." Again, help me out here, how long has Porter County been situated at the tip of Lake Michigan within close proximity to Chicago? And how long has Chicago been a big city? I'm just checking, because with declarations such as these, you'd think this was an astonishing revelation, something new, unheard of, mind-blowing, and certainly...cause for IMMEDIATE ACTION! Get out your wallets folks!

"We urge you to ignore the fear tactics of Mr. Harper and vote YES on November 3 with a hope for creating future jobs, a better economy, and greater mobility for the citizens of our county through accountability, cooperation and planning."

Another words, we encourage you, by using fallacious reasoning (argumentum ad hominem)and scare tactics of our own, to give in to bigger government and higher taxes, because "WE", who support the idea that it is the role of the government to provide for the people from cradle to grave, have determined that it is in your best interest to agree with us (and we have the fancy titles, charts and numbers to prove it).

Who is "we"?

Re: NW Indiana Patriots - Tea Party respond

sweetlibertybelle — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:29:56 -0000

"A well oiled and effective Tea Party movement in Northwest Indiana SHOULD be an asset to conservative politicians out here. Not an embarrassment!"

Interesting. It has been my experience that no one political affiliation could lay claim to the Tea Party movement. I know many Democrats who have attended several Tea Party events. Granted, the overwhelming number of participants are of a conservative stripe of some form or fashion, but I don't believe the 'movement' was ever intended to be a pawn or asset for one politcal party or another. If it has been your intention to use the movement as such, in your political aspirations, such as they are (whatever they are), I have no doubt that you are disappointed. Most Tea Party participants are sick to death of politicians and aspiring, would-be politicians, and are shunning them like the parasites they eventually show themselves to be.

Further, you suggest that I fix problems in 'my group'. You are assuming this is somehow my group. For which, you are sorely mistaken. I am simply recognizing and commending the efforts of NWIP's organizers and taking exception to your "sound advice" and unwillingness to extend anything more than criticism and so-called "sound advice". It sounds as if you are far too concerned with appearances, as you have indicated, and how you may take advantage of the Tea Party movement for your own personal gain.

If you were interested in giving sound advice and furthering a positive advancement of the Tea Party movement you wouldn't be criticizing and besmirching the orgainzers of NWIPs on such a public forum, but would have instead been more constructive by voicing your concerns and suggestions in a personal conversation with the organizers.

Get real. This was nothing more than a way for you to attack the NWIP's personally while still maintaining your anonymity.

Re: NW Indiana Patriots - Tea Party respond

sweetlibertybelle — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:39:34 -0000

@OZ - With all due respect, the efforts of certain members of NWIPs to get out information about the RTA referendum, is a personal effort and not part of any Tea Party movement. When members of NWIP's also show interest in local politics and take personal initiative in the communities with regard to any issue, it should be recognized as such, a personal effort and not necessarily a "protest" (Tea Party protest specifically) per say. That Bonnie and Faith also happen to be founders of NWIP's should not automatically indicate that they are operating in their capacity as Tea Party Organizers or attempting to mobilize the masses for every utterance or event in which they participate. They are making a personal effort, by standing outside the court house, each day, in all kinds of weather, simply to make residents aware that there is a vote on Nov 3, pass along non-partisan information on the referendum, and encourage voters to vote. That they are against the RTA is incidental.

Your criticisms of their past and recent efforts have been noted, but you were asked a direct question that you have not answered yourself. What have you done to mobilize the masses in our community or otherwise affect a positive change in Washington? It takes more than criticism. At some point, one would hope, that you will be able to put yourself out there as visibly and passionately as Bonnie and Faith, only to have arm-chair cowboys like yourself attempt to criticize, marginalize, mock and demoralize them for their every effort. I've got to tell you, that is not going to change a lot of minds in Washington.