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Re: McEntee: BYU does the right thing, anti-gay website howls | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:23:44 -0000

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.ed...
http://www.newscientist.com...
Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/stor...
http://www.livescience.com/...
http://www.springerlink.com...
http://blogs.discovermagazi...

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.

Re: McEntee: BYU does the right thing, anti-gay website howls | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:23:38 -0000

This is the perfect example of how anti-gay people change the bible's words for their anti-gay agenda.

Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word "homosexual" was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread their anti-gay agenda?

Absolutely.

Re: McEntee: BYU does the right thing, anti-gay website howls | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:23:28 -0000

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to suit their agenda.

Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.

http://www.soulfoodministry...
http://www.jesus21.com/cont...
http://www.christchapel.com...
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/n...
http://www.gaychristian101....
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM...
http://www.wouldjesusdiscri...
http://www.soulforce.org/ar...
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/...

Re: ERIC BAERREN: Don’t fall for the fear mongering - themorningsun.com

shadow_man — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:10:25 -0000

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:11:50 -0000

33Charlemagne: Also, i noticed you dodged my questions, as i predicted :)

I will start counting the number of times you dodge these questions :)

# of times charlemagne dodged these questions: 1
Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so,
Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex
with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on
sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the
rest of your life?

Again, if you want to prove your point, and you're really straight, then these questions should be easy to answer hmm?

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:09:47 -0000

The sins of sodom had to due with inhospitality, not anal sex. And if sex outside of marriage is a sin, you prove my point of why gay marriage needs to be legalized. If you're against gay marriage, you are condoning them to have sex out of marriage.

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:07:40 -0000

Actually, i replied up here because the reply was not going in below yours :)

You confuse sex with sexual orientation. They are two different things. A good example. Let's take a virgin who has never had sex. However, this virgin male looks at pictures of naked guys, gets aroused, and does his solo deed. Is he homosexual, or is he asexual? Of course, the vast majority will say he's homosexual, even though he's never had sex. That's the difference :)

Those studies show that being gay is not a choice. You are born with those sexual attractions. Whether or not you have sex is irrelevant.

You say that the comparison between interracial marriage and gay marriage is inapt, yet you fail to provide any solid reasoning of why.

You condone interracial marriage being denied by saying that it has been done throughout history. So are you admitting that slavery is ok, the subjugation of woman and keeping them as 2nd class citizens ok, and thinking the world is flat is ok? We have done that for the vast majority of human kind, and those were widely accepted. Fact of the matter is, a majority view does not make it right In fact, history teaches us quite the opposite :)

You finally go on to compare this to beastiality, etc. As usual, when the anti-gay side has no valid argument against same-sex marriage, you bring up irrelevant variables :)

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:09:44 -0000

33-charle: But we don't need scientific evidence for this. Let's use logic. Answer the following questions:

Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the rest of your life?

Like all anti-gays, you will either try to dodge these questions, or completely disappear. Which on is it gonna be? =)

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:09:18 -0000

Ahhhh name-calling! That's what happens when you lose an argument. Proving you wrong is not bigotry, it's stating the facts :)

The reason Bailey and Pillard’s study is no longer valid is because we have overwhelming evidence that's far newer that proves that homosexuality is not a choice. Including studies showing brain differences between straights and gays, lesbian studies, studies showing different hormonal responses between gays and straights, etc. Virtually every medical, psychological, scientific organization agrees with this. Who are we going to trust. A poster who resorts to name-calling, or the actual scientists, leading psychological organizations, and doctors? I think they have quite a bit more credibility than you do =)

You're mistaking sex for sexual orientation. They are not the same thing. A person can be a virgin, yet still is considered either homosexual, heterosexual, or bi-sexual. And did you just say that sexual behavior affects physical appearance? LOL! You're either trying to troll and failing so miserably because you fail to incite anger, or you're running out of arguments. I'm betting on both =)

You mentioned "schizophrenia, substance abuse and criminal behavior" which not only is irrelevant, but are harmful things. Homosexuality is not any more harmful than heterosexuality is.

The comparison between interracial marriages and gay marriages is pretty valid. Back then, two different races mixing was frowned upon just as two men getting married is frowned upon (by mostly the older generation since the vast majority of us under 30 support gay marriage). You're discriminating someone based on something they can't change.

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:57:12 -0000

This is the perfect example of how anti-gay people change the bible's words for their anti-gay agenda.

Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.

Absolutely.

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:56:51 -0000

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their anti-gay agenda.

(Change *** to www)
***.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
***.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
***.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
***.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
***.gaychristian101.com/
***.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
***.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
***.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
***.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.html

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:20:29 -0000

Lol, let's take a look at where you got some of this information from. Family Research Council, a non-scientific well known-hate group. You also referenced the twin studies conducted over 20 years ago (very outdated) while ignoring all the biological evidence that i posted where gays have different brain structures from straights, tests performed shows gays have different hormonal responses and other bodily changes in comparison to straights, etc

Also in the substance abuse part. The problem is not homosexuality, it's caused by bigotry.

Why are homosexuals more likely to suffer from mental health issues than their heterosexual counterparts? Is it because they are homosexual or is it because of negative attitudes that are reflected upon it? Well, a recent study found this: "Researchers at the University of Minnesota have published a study showing that the degree of internalized homonegativity (negative attitude towards homosexuality) among homosexual men is what predicts poor mental and sexual health not the act of being homosexual."

. The reason that there are higher rates of other mental health concerns for people who are Lesbian and Gay is having to grow up and live surrounded by people such as yourself. Two recent studies have shown that there are increased rates of depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and so on, among those who have a negative view of their sexual orientation, internalized homophobia and young people who experience family rejection and negativity toward their sexual orientation are also far more likely to suffer the same problems and also to engage in risky sexual behaviors

Finally, your final argument is simply laughable. Lol, that's like telling a black guy in the 1960's, you have the right to marry, just not outside of your race! See how absurd that sounds?

Got anything else i can prove wrong?

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:24:56 -0000

I take it that witty comments is not your strong point ^_^

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:24:12 -0000

Every reputable medical, scientific, and psychological organization have proven that "reparative therapy" does not work. Try again =)

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:23:21 -0000

Lol, your argument gets flushed down the toilet the minute you said the mouth is for consuming only. Almost every straight person has oral sex, and they use their mouth for talking. =)

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:22:13 -0000

Lol,, your argument gets flushed down the toilet the minute you said the mouth is for consuming. Because almost every heterosexual has oral sex and talks. =)

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:21:24 -0000

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.

From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association and American Psychiatric Association have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.

America's premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:21:12 -0000

Gay rights are human rights.

And it should also be noted that:
"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

Re: Pastor: Starbucks hates God

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:20:09 -0000

Romans also does not condemn homosexuality.

If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ's gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols. Paul explained that as a result of their idolatry, every part of their lives had become corrupt and vile.

Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ.

The Greek word Paul used, that has been translated in our Bibles as "natural/unnatural", relates to that which is against one's own inherent nature (i.e., heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts). It was also related to Paul's concept of what was culturally acceptable. The same Greek word is used in I Cor. 11:14-15 in reference to correct hair length for men and women and in Gal. 2:15 in reference to Jews and Gentiles who were such by "nature." Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.

It would help if you knew what the culture was like back then. In those times, male-male intercourse was a result of idol worship. Back then, it was a common practice of cult priests and priestesses to submit to sexual acts with either gender as part of the worship of their deities. Therefore, such acts were considered sinful and debauchery. It would be the same if it were hetero people involved in cultic sex, prostitution or sexual abuse of minors.

Now I'm pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the time, it is a physical act of love; just like any hetero couples.

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:44:41 -0000

Here is why the slippery slope argument fails.

Let us take the 4 common arguments: beastiality, pedophilia, incest, and polygamy. First off, all 4 of these are fetishes, and irrelevant to homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation. Let me distinguish this for you using incest as an example. If a guy into incest is straight, he'll choose his sister, and if he's gay, he'll choose his brother. See the distinguishment? Now pedophilia and beastiality will never be legal, because both are non-consenting and harmful, whereas homosexuality is 2 loving consenting adults that is not wrong or harmful. Incest, also has been shown to lead to genetic defects, so that is also out of the question. Incest also is a fetish, not a sexual orientation. I have never seen a person exclusively attracted to their brothers/sisters etc. Polygamy also is a choice. No one can choose who they would or will be attracted to, but they CAN choose to be in more than one relationship with more than one person at the same time. Polygamy can be damaging, as it can cause jealousies and resentments among the participants and any children produced. Those 4 fetishes can be seen to be harmful and wrong, whereas gay marriage is neither harmful nor wrong.

If you want to press for polygamy, or incest, those are completely separate issues irrelevant to gay marriage. Go advocate for them if that's your concern, prove they are not wrong and prove they are not harmful. We have already proven that homosexuality/gay marriage is not wrong/harmful. But those two things are irrelevant to gay marriage. And gay marriage does not lead to polygamy nor any other type of fetish.

Gay marriage has been legal in MA for 8 years now, and i don't see anyone pushing for polygamy there. The slippery slope is a myth meant as a scare tactic that's quickly becoming obsolete.

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:44:28 -0000

Children will not be harmed by gay marriage. Let's examine research and prove what anti-gays are saying wrong. Also note, that "children" are completely irrelevant to gay marriage, because that issue is about gay adoption, which is not related.

http://www.livescience.com/...
"In general, kids in both heterosexual and lesbian households had similar levels of academic achievement, number of friends and overall well-being."

http://www.magneticfire.com...
"Goldberg’s new book is the first full-length analysis of the research on gay parenting, summarizing research data on the subject from the 1970s to the present day. The research is consistent in suggesting that the outcomes and well-being of children raised by gay and lesbian parents are no different than those of children raised by heterosexual parents."

http://www.webmd.com/mental...
"Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress."

http://www.sciencedaily.com...
"In a study published this month in the journal Demography, Rosenfeld concludes that children being raised by same-sex couples have nearly the same educational achievement as children raised by married heterosexual couples."

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/...
"As this summary will show, the results of existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite clear: Common stereotypes are not supported by the data."

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:44:15 -0000

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

"I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. "

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:44:08 -0000

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:43:58 -0000

This is the perfect example of how anti-gay people change the bible's words for their anti-gay agenda.

Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.

Absolutely.

Re: McEntee: Who, exactly, does gay marriage harm? | The Salt Lake Tribune

shadow_man — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:43:36 -0000

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to suit their agenda.