Disqus - Latest Comments for Sabio

Re: Your Religion Is a Reflection of Your Culture—You’d Be Muslim if You Were Born in Pakistan

Sabio Lantz — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:03:45 -0000

Very nicely done. Even those who feel they have examined all religions, tend toward some religion sect close to the one of their birth. Somewhere I heard that children from strife-filled households tend to reject the beliefs of their parents while peaceful-enough households breed like-minded believers in both religion and politics.

Re: Is civilization overrated?

Sabio Lantz — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:57:53 -0000

Right. Was it by accident, or someone who has something at stake by being known to be the author of these criticisms, or ....? Either way, odd. This is my first time reading New Criterion -- so I was puzzled

Re: Is civilization overrated?

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 10:45:06 -0000

Who wrote this article? No author.

Re: A computer model of atheism?

Sabio Lantz — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:57:41 -0000

That makes sense. I tend to agree.
Sad statement, though, about the nature of humans and the gods they create. (sort of like the politicians they create, eh?)

Re: A computer model of atheism?

Sabio Lantz — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:24:54 -0000

I agree that due to the flexible functions that can be packaged in things called "religion", and the flux of local conditions, we will always have religions. We have seen Tiny Gods become Bigger gods over time, I wonder about the fate of exclusive gods (Yahweh and Allah) and magic gods (givers of health and wealth) vs other types of gods (inclusive and impersonal) over the long haul.

Re: Africa & The Problem Of Evil

Sabio Lantz — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:55:19 -0000

It seems clear, that like your religious sister, you have a set agenda to justify god-belief. It seems that your alma mater, your Christian college (Berry College) or probably childhood upbringing, still follows you. I, being a former Wheaton College grad, know the pull of that tradition. And higher education, makes untangling the rationalizations of preferences more difficult.

But let's see if I can get at one major false point in your argument.

First, I agree that hardships can help us think about what is valuable, but they can clearly make us callous and vicious. Likewise, prosperity can make us dull, but it can also make us generous.

So I disagree with the key point in your argument: "Orienting human lives towards things of lasting importance requires disruption. And pain is one of the most powerful disruptions you could ask for."

Actually prosperity and safety can wake us up to what is valuable too.

Disruption can wake us up, of course, but you want one-sided disruption (pain) to be virtuous so you can justify your all-powerful, interventional, all-loving god to still be an OK god for letting all sorts of horror to exist just to teach us a lesson.

Your second weak point is typified when you say, "The idea is that creature comforts mask a genuine need for God in our lives."

There is no "genuine need for God in our lives." What hat did that rabbit come out of? As you said, prosperous and peaceful Western Europe has little need for god-belief and thus dispel this "genuine need"theory of yours. Instead, you beg the question with your assumption.

Re: Dogmatic atheism and fundamentalist Christianity: creating certainty in an uncertain world

Sabio Lantz — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:29:02 -0000

@ Ryan,
I couldn't resists, due to your first comment: "depending" has an initial "d".
But on a serious note, I guess you are getting at "p-values", but those aren't given either. (recently the press is making us uncertain about p-values too -- I think I will go preach about the evils of yahweh to ease my uncertainty. :-)

Re: What kind of woman would pray for health or use spiritual healing?

Sabio Lantz — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:18:46 -0000

Fascinating. Many vehement internet atheists scream loudly about how stupid believers are. Yet, I find believers to usually be rather ordinary neurotic people. It is often the very, very smart people that come with weirder traits.

And I find many men go to church for their women. Are their studies showing this. To keep the wife (girlfriend) happy, the guy supports the prayers, juicers and vitamin purchases.

Fascinating, Tom, thanks.

Re: No space for God of the gaps

Sabio Lantz — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 06:53:44 -0000

@AlissA,
This is very good! Did you just draw it for this post, or do you have your own blog.
Connor's god is nothing like the gods of most religion-followers, his is much more safe and untestable (as your cartoon says). So the problem is that he confuses theorizing about his sterilized god with the gods in all the real-life pray-plead-and-parade religions.
Again, very nice cartoon.

Re: No space for God of the gaps

Sabio Lantz — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:11:45 -0000

Connor,
You can tell us over and over what flavor of religion you think is healthy and wonderful, but the religion out there in the real world is full of magic, fear and tribal wars. Sure, you can make your own personal inner religion at peace with science -- but no holy texts write about such things. You can idealize religion. You can make your god totally immune for testing, but the gods of most religious folks is far from that. And we have tested those claims and they just don't pan out.

I agree, if people rebuilt their gods to be impotent, we'd have a safer planet.

And I actually feel much of religion can be very benign, if not helpful. And I don't think it will go away. But we should fight its stupid sides -- like you are in speaking against the god-of-the-gap. I call it the "spackle god" with an illustration here but further illustrate here the other parts of people's modular gods fill the space as they let their spackle god shrink.

Love your continued slams at internet atheists: "neither option benefits our collective mental health" --> You are very wrong. Many people attest to being helped to setting themselves free from their sick forms of religion (Christian , Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim and others) by internet atheists. Even I have had thank you notes from folks.

It takes all sort of approaches to help the world. No matter how enamored you are with yours, generalizing that people who are not like you are a not good for the "collective mental health [yawn]" tells us more about you than about reality.

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:33:42 -0000

"numinous" -- "metaphysical experiences" -- douthat's article
I looked up that author (a politically-conservative, adult-convert Catholic) and his article.
He has a very clear religious agenda which he clearly proclaims.
His language and analysis shows it too.
He uses "materialism" pejoratively in predictable ways.

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:11:22 -0000

@ Joseph M

-- I am a better person and more trustworthy because I am Christian.

-- God cares for those who love him.

-- My deceased loved ones wait for me in heaven.

-- I belong to the community because I am Christian.

These are all simple. The theologies and stories can be as complex as the believer wishes, of course. But most believers aren't complex at all -- certainly not as complex as their religious professionals would have them be. (see Chris' note below).

Yes, religion supplies simple answers -- do this and you'll be saved/healthier/more acceptable ... No, many religion-free worldviews can be simple too.

Does that answer your question?

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:07:48 -0000

Oh you were right, Chris. Thank you.

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:07:08 -0000

3) Various Religiosities: Diagrams showing just some of the various mechanisms that serve religious practitioners (not just ritual practitioners). It shows how people use these differently and thus make believers in the same faith very different from each other, though their jargon and public professions may be similar. I only listed four types, but I am sure there are many, many more. The point is the principle of constellations of functions (variously embraced) forming the abstract package called "religion".

(4) Reification: Comparing the packaging of "God" and "Patriotism" to explore how those sorts of words work -- not the dogs and stars of your strawman counter.

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:05:43 -0000

@ Chris: Thanx, Chris. Yes, your analysis was correct in all aspects.

@ Connor -- replying to your reply:

(1) Abstractions like "religion" or "freedom" are very different from the choices you made like "fish, rivers, boycotts, stars" -- You chose a weak examples, either showing you don't understand the arguments or you enjoy the strawman approach simply to minimize my point. We can disagree, but a better counter would be more interesting.

I said, "religion" and you jumped to "symbolic rituals" and then say "I just don't see the usefulness of denying this ..." And of course I never denied rituals, but pointed out the fuzziness of "religion" in which rituals, social clubs, morality, tribal allegiance and much more are packaged together. Again, you misrepresent my point.

(2) Concerning Chris' criticism too: Religion on the ground is often much more simple than those who are heavily invested in it: be they religious professionals or those who invested their lives in studying it. And I mean it in the way Chris states.

For you to tell me to "Try spending some time with Hindu cosmology, or trying to achieve Nirvana with a Zen instructor, or join a strict Sufi dervish order, and come back and tell me how "simple" religion is. " Shows how naive you are about my background and pompous you are about your new academic expertise. I won't even begin to tell you and try to defend the breadth and depth of my religious experiences. (it is on my blog and I am not naive enough to expect you to look). But the rhetoric in your reply, as Chris points out, tells us more about your triggers and you as a person.

(3) Posts (for other readers who may has interest)

I've written a few posts relevant to the issues here:

(a) Most Christians Don't Believe showing how simple the religious life of many believers is -- often to the disappointment of the religious professionals who try to herd them to orthodox beliefs and more fervent all-emcompassing life practices.

(b) Depth and Complexity Deception: Discusses how lots of writing and reading on a subject, and seeing the others who do the same, can give a illusion of substance that may not exist and thus deceives the believer (even though they themselves may be hugely unfamiliar with all the material).

In case you have limit on # of links, I will add the rest in the next comment.

Re: Simulating Religion

Sabio Lantz — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:48:47 -0000

Interesting project!

Discovering religion, however, starts with understanding how the word is artificially construed -- an abstraction loaded with agendas.

But I am sure your project will help elucidate this.

Depending on definitions, different theories succeed differently

So your project could help expose how people vie for the artificial orthodox definition of religion.

I took a fun stab at defining religion using a syndrome model here. But my silly attempt is meant only to show how fuzzy the abstraction is.

As I imagine your fine project, I am having fun visualizing a curve fitting regression analysis where each variable is a different helpful theory of religion-- since many theories touch on something (as opposed to theories that just say, "Because God Said"). But really, your project may help get rid of theory names and instead, have a regression formula with variables being all those social, psychological, geographical, political components --- all weighted differently.

I imagine that the truth with be unwieldy -- and won't sell well -- even in academic circle. People want simple aphorisms and simple explanations. Indeed, that is one of religion's primary tools -- simplicity.

Re: Subliminal religious prompts might not make people nicer after all

Sabio Lantz — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:17:06 -0000

BTW, I find it fascinating that 0, 5, and 10 were the usual amounts given. The human mind seems to think, "keep", "share", "give" in simple terms. Funny

Re: Subliminal religious prompts might not make people nicer after all

Sabio Lantz — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:16:00 -0000

(1) So there were two studies, correct? Their own experiment and a meta-analysis? The figure is for their own experiment but you say, "Bit [sic] when I look at the figure they present it screams something else to me: publication bias." And you are hinting that the meta-analysis shows effect (albeit from publication bias) yet say, "They point out that the big picture suggests that there really is nothing to see here. " I am confused. Am I reading badly?

(2) You said there were 50 in the first experiment but did not tell us how many in this experiment.

(3) And how do you the first experiment's results probably not significant (? p-value)? Because in your 2007 post you did not tell us that the experiment showed non-significant difference but only reported as actual evidence.

(4) Are you reading research better in 2015 and more careful, or just a better science writer now?

Great to watch the "facts" change over time:

A theory should not attempt to explain all the facts, because some of the facts are wrong.

— Francis Crick

Smile.

Re: Why Elephants Don’t Explode: How Nature Solves Bigness

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 12:24:16 -0000

So how are these smaller animal's cells different? Number of mitochondria? Why can't we find small animals with efficient cells? You'd think they would evolve such for better survival.

Re: What do people think God is actually like?

Sabio Lantz — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:41:35 -0000

I am certain that many believers have no idea that:
(a) their beliefs are contradictory (-- make no sense)
(b) that they hold heretical ideas

Re: What do people think God is actually like?

Sabio Lantz — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:05:00 -0000

"And yet the ‘theologically correct’ Christian god is a disembodied force with few human characteristics."

I am not sure that is correct. One, there are many, many different theologies using the same texts. Second, Yahweh is spoken of as smelling and walking and many other embodied traits.

Re: Does more education mean more, or less, religon? It depends whether you take intelligence into account.

Sabio Lantz — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 10:10:00 -0000

Maybe we can also see that obviously not all education guarantees a rise in intelligence. ;-)

Re: The statistics are clear: a cultural shift away from religion is underway in the USA

Sabio Lantz — Tue, 02 Jun 2015 08:06:47 -0000

Tom, having had the pleasure to visit you in Southern England and thus knowing your island-bound potential of insight, I am nonetheless sometimes shocked at your typification of us Americans -- you are often humorously spot on!
;-)

Re: The statistics are clear: a cultural shift away from religion is underway in the USA

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 31 May 2015 10:53:09 -0000

Great discussion, Tom. Two thoughts:

(1) I think atheists tend to be disproportionately contrarians -- so I wonder as the society approaches being grossly atheist by percentages, that they become a little ironically uncomfortable being part of the norm. What will they do then?

(2) For Atheist fans, the decline of religion is cause for celebration, but we should worry about the drop of religion being a symptom of a less than desirable set of value/attitude changes: apathy & me-ism.

Re: Is religion evolutionarily adaptive?

Sabio Lantz — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:13:08 -0000

Hey, BTW, I find these thumb up and thumb down buttons odd -- more of an option for passive aggressiveness -- don't you?