Disqus - Friends of proscriptus

Re: American Library Association Supports WikiLeaks Suspect Manning

Stephen Miller — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:13:36 -0000

You are irrelevant.

Re: Robots have failed Fukushima Daiichi and Japan

Stephen Miller — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:10:10 -0000

No, ghung321 is right. The cost will be 2 orders of magnitude greater than is quoted in the article. 10 TRILLION yen.

Re: Straight From the Teet

Stephen Miller — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:55:41 -0000

The data, what a joke. Get back to us when you have left the womb.

Re: Can Antibiotics Make You Fat?

Stephen Miller — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:23:39 -0000

Thankfully, consumption of animal products is not dependent on feeding the animals grain. Cows do not require grain. They eat grass, which humans cannot get any nutritional benefit from. Grass grows naturally by the way. In many places, it requires little to no attention.

This has nothing to do with vegetarianism. The problem is grain.

Re: Can Antibiotics Make You Fat?

Stephen Miller — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:29:43 -0000

After you have been floxed come back and tell us this nonsense.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 08:34:17 -0000

1) What you suggest would not be easier; it would be harder.

2) That wouldn't be yogurt. That would be some totally artificial crap.

3) What you meant to say was, "Making it totally artifically could result in..." So what? We could artificially increase the protein amount by throwing animal protein in there too. But why would we do that? According to you, we already get "too much protein." Do you think more processing and artificial manipulation is the answer? And why would we want to lower fat in the way you suggest? They already remove the fat from some Greek yogurt and off it commercially as 0% fat. But fat, especially animal fat, like animal protein, is healthy and superior to most commercial plant-based sources (*when the animals are fed their proper diet*), which is why we eat it in the first place. Also, it turns out that cholesterol in the diet isn't bad for you; and calcium from milk is more bioavailable than calcium from plants (because milk contains the animal form of vitamin D, which regulates calcium uptake from the GI tract; and also phosphatase when unpasteurized).

4) Your suggestion would not solve the problem with organic acids. Whey is not actually the problem discussed in the article, as others have pointed out; the problem is with acid.

The solution to this problem is simple, do what farmers have been doing for hundreds or thousands of years--feed the whey to pigs, as the other commenter suggests and actually does!

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 08:35:15 -0000

You wouldn't get acid whey but you would still get acid, which is the problem. Explain to us exactly how you plan to ferment the food without turning sugar into acid?

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 08:49:19 -0000

Even some of the vegan "yogurts" (not really yogurt--it should be illegal to call it that) add in lactic acid artificially. Now that is in addition to the fact that they all seem to use lactic acid bacteria for the fermentation to begin with. And all lactic acid bacteria produce just that, lactic acid.

Take a look at the ingredients of these vegan "yogurts" if you don't believe me:

http://www.veganbaking.net/...

Now keep in mind that lactic acid bacteria in milk actually come from plants, too. In the the natural version of yogurt (clabber, i.e. unpasteurized milk), the bacteria are transferred from grass onto the teat of the grazing animal, and so the milk is innoculated when it comes out of the teat canal. If you let it stand at room temperature the bacteria proliferate and fermentation occurs. The acid coagulates the proteins and you get clabber and whey.

But regardless of what acid is produced, if you are fermenting sugars, acids will be produced. So do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying, or is it just bullshit you made up on the spot?

And if you are so against animal-based foods, why do you keep making suggestions to imitate an animal food? Can't you just be happy with plants how they are, instead of forcing them to be like animal foods?

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 08:54:37 -0000

Vegan is not the same as eating locally. I'm sorry you seem to be laboring under this misconception. Can you be vegan and eat locally? Sure, but eating well would be pretty hard for most people, considering that avocadoes, coconuts, olives, peanuts, etc. grow only in specific areas.

This is why people raise animals--pigs eat anything, and provide superior fat and protein in their meat. Cows eat grass and provide the only whole food known to man (milk), along with superior fat and protein in their meat. Cows and pigs have a wider ranger than, say, coconuts and avocadoes. So I would argue it's actually a lot easier to get eat well, locally, if you are an omnivore (which humans are) and eat meat.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:11:41 -0000

We could always feed them you.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:16:14 -0000

Look, you've made your point that you're a vegan. We really don't care. We have freezers for meat and refrigerators for milk, too, and we're going to use them. Your veganism not relevant to the article.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:23:24 -0000

I have news for you. A cow eats grass naturally. Humans cannot live on grass. But a human can live off of milk alone, nevermind the meat.

Good grassfed cow operations do require land, but they do not not require fertilizer or irrigation.

So again, you are conflating the idea of industrial food production (something common to both plant agriculture and the raising of animals), with the raising and consumption of animal products. These aren't the same thing. The problem is not eating or raising animals; if anything, the problem is that we have too many people!

http://www.time.com/time/ma...

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:26:34 -0000

The problem is our current population growth. And that is not due to consumption of animal products! If anything, it is due to the over-abundance of cheap food, i.e. carbohydrates (plants!).

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:34:16 -0000

What science?

Milk is the most nutritious food there is. Science backs this up, showing that it contains everything necessary for like. Any mammal can be raised on the milk of any other mammal, and yes, other mammals do drink milk into adulthood; and drink the milk of other species. Even chickens will eat milk. Have you ever even been to a farm????

It is only a moral myth that we don't "need" milk into adulthood. Nobody "needs" anything! It just happens to be the most efficient food, so we consume it.
The food pyramid already favors vegetarianism. Have you looked at in the past 30+ years? Grains are at the bottom, followed by fruit and vegetables. The government pushes a low-fat diet, and yet everyone is slowly becoming obese and getting diabetes. Why? Because overconsumption of carbohydrates causes obesity and diabetes. Duh!

It isn't meat and milk and eggs that are unhealthy, it's grains. If you feed an animal that is supposed to eat grass, grain instead, the composition of its meat and milk is also effected, and they become less healthy. This is all supported by science.

The problem in this country is that healthy grassfed, raw milk and pastured meat are not widely available; and grains and heavily processed, omega-6-heavy transgenic PUFA oils are put into much of our manufactured foods.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:35:52 -0000

And we do not have the digestive tract of a gorilla--we could never survive on fiber.

(By the way, they eat insects, so no, they aren't vegan either...)

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:37:16 -0000

You are obsessed with this 0 cholesterol thing. Do you realize that cholesterol is basically the building block of animal life? That it's in the membrane of every cell? That mortality increases in old people the lower their cholesterol is? That it's important for brain function, healing, and a host of other bodily processes?

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:39:18 -0000

There's no need to eat plants either. So what? We're omnivores!

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:40:27 -0000

Oh please, cows are not responsible for the end of the world.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:41:38 -0000

All human societies have eaten animal products since time immemorial.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:51:29 -0000

Either "whey," there is not a lot of whey protein in either kind. But yes, that was touched on in the article. People are already making protein supplements from acid whey, so it's possible.

http://www.myprotein.com/sp...

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 09:58:21 -0000

How we got where we are is not necessarily as important, as where we are. We are omnivores. We tolerate meat quite well. Perhaps you are unaware but some societies survive on practically nothing but meat (such as Eskimos), and an all-meat diet has been sufficiently examined and found to be relatively safe. We do not have the digestive tracts of gorillas, bunnies, cows, etc. We cannot digest most fiber.

Heart disease, stroke, etc., have not been conclusively proven to be caused simply by eating meat -per se- (aside from associated lifestyle factors like smoking, stress, etc., there are other complicating variables, since the quality of meat depends on what the animal was fed while it was alive). And we know now that cholesterol in the diet is harmless, and that some saturated fats are good for you.

And I cannot think of a single food that is more nutritious than milk--there isn't one! Why do you think mammals even produce the stuff if it's so bad? How do babies even survive?

You say lions and tigers are carnivores. OK. No one disagrees. But you seem to think someone has said we are carnivores as well. No one has. We are omnivores. This means we can eat pretty much anything we want. In fact we can live carnivorously. And yes, our stomachs are pretty damn acidic. They can digest protein fine.

Most vegetables and fruits really do not contain a significant amount of protein. This is why (according to the Wikipedia article on 'complete protein') you would have to eat 9 baked potatoes to fulfill your amino acid requirements for the day. Now this is over 2,500 calories, so you are done eating. Do you really think that eating nothing but 9 baked potatoes a day is healthy? You will quickly become fat, although you will not be getting your necessary essential fatty acids or fat-soluble vitamins.

Seeds do contain significant amounts of protein; and that includes grain, but not as much after it has been processed. I am not sure why you think alcohol is a sugar. Alcohol is fermented from sugar, but is not a sugar. Perhaps you're confusing alcohol and sugar with alcohol sugars? And saying that sugar (I think you meannt carbohydrate) and fat are the only things that don't contain protein, is pretty redundant. By definition these macronutrients don't contain one another. However, it is the case that fat and protein are usually found together in nature (e.g. eggs, milk, meat, seeds).

We need fat and we need protein--incidentally the best fats and proteins are found in animal products, not in plants. Digestible carbohydrates--which are only found in a few animal products such as milk or liver--are the most dispensable macronutrient (there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, since the body can synthesize carbohydrates from amino acids), and are found in abundance in plants, along with more complex, indigestible carbohydrates.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 10:01:59 -0000

To actually answer your question (basically, "what do people do with whey?"), Cheryl, the Greeks probably do with it what everyone else does with it and feed it to pigs.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 10:03:03 -0000

This is why traditionally it is fed to pigs, not cows.

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 10:14:32 -0000

You are wrong. Apparently, acid whey has caused at least one environmental disaster in a previous spill. The article even mentions this: "Spills of cheese whey, a cousin of Greek yogurt whey, have killed tens of thousands of fish around the country in recent years."

This Daily Mail rehash of the article explicitly mentions that the cheese whey that spilled in Sandy Creek, Ohio, was acid whey. Now they could have gotten this wrong, and obviously I cannot confirm this personally but of course it's possible, since there is such a thing as acid-set cheese (this is any cheese that uses acid to coagulate the casein, instead of rennet). Since acid-set cheese is actually the more traditional method of making cheese, and Minerva is said to make Amish cheese, it is plausible that this information is correct.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...

Re: greek yogurt whey waste new york

Stephen Miller — Sat, 25 May 2013 10:49:07 -0000

Yes, the human body recycles cholesterol, and regulates levels of blood cholesterol more-or-less regardless of dietary intake. However, my point is that, the other side of this is that there is really no evidence that too much dietary cholesterol is a problem.

This idea was based on a bunch of skewed statistics and pseudo-science from the 70s, which tried to correlate consumption of saturated animal fat (which of course contains cholesterol) with heart disease. There was no correlation across all populations so Keys just ignored the data that didn't fit, and made up his own correlation. Now we know more about the process of atherosclerosis, we know more about the different kinds of lipoproteins in the blood, and we know that cholesterol and saturated fat (as such) in the diet are not the cause heart disease.

On the other hand, cholesterol is the building block for all steroid hormones. One deficiency that is common among vegans is vitamin D. They pretty much have to supplement (=rely on processed foods) for this. But vitamin D from plant or fungal sources is inferior to vitamin D from animal sources, because it has to be converted (there are multiple forms of vitamin D and, being animals, we ultimately use the animal form).

Now vitamin D (the animal form, the one we use) is found in abundance in the fat of animals, especially ones that spend time in the sunlight. Cholesterol also happens to be a precursor to vitamin D (which is really a steroid hormone, not a vitamin); along with testosterone, estrogen, stress hormones, etc.

So when you are eating animal products, you are not just absorbing cholesterol (which, remember, isn't dangerous in itself), but also vitamin D. Ostensibly this frees up more cholesterol to be used in the production of the other steroid hormones. This would explain why vegetarians have been found in some studies, to also have low testosterone (although there are other theories and possible explanations).

http://www.charlespoliquin....

Milk, which is the first food that all mammals eat, just happens to be full of cholesterol and animal vitamin D. Do you think this is just some kind of irrelevant coincidence? It's amazing how out-of-touch with nature vegans and vegetarians can be!