Disqus - Latest Comments for serenebabe

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 11:48:07 -0000

The statistics you cite about how many white people (about 9%) live at or below the federally established poverty level (FPL) and 22% of black people live at or below FPL are right on. I agree with you there.

You're right that there are theories out there claiming that being married helps people escape poverty, but there are also theories (sound theories, in my opinion, see Stephanie Coontz's work) that say poverty is one of the main reasons for people to not get married; poverty makes people less likely to get married. I would add to that racism (mass incarceration) as one of the reasons more black mothers are not married.

I'm curious to know if you've thought about your own relationship with people of color? What thoughts do you have when you talk with someone with brown or black skin? How do you feel when you do?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 11:33:39 -0000

I was thinking a lot about this comment last night. I have a question for you. What makes you feel unsafe?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:13:09 -0000

Oh, okay. If there are two incomes in a family, they are less likely to be poor? That sounds plausible.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:12:07 -0000

didn't notice your name. people's screen names don't register, really. I know so many people with absurd names that don't really relate to who they are.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:24:39 -0000

No, what you have said is not true.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:23:19 -0000

Sort of, but not directly. I think there should be policies in place that make it easier for people of color to make money, save money, and buy property. I think there should be hefty inheritance taxes for families passing property on to their children (the richest should pay the most, the regular people should pay just a bit) and those taxes can go to the policies that make it easier for people of color to invest and save. So, sort of, yes.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:18:03 -0000

All of us, every one of us, plays a part in the racist structures of our country. And, yes, I believe that President Obama supported racist policies. I suppose you are saying that my "people of color can't be racist" is innaccurate because there are a few black people who have power and money?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:14:55 -0000

PS re: my background, do you mean this? http://bangordailynews.com/...

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:13:29 -0000

Okay. I'm interested in having discussions with people who want to explore their own self-awareness related to racism.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:12:00 -0000

I honestly don't see anywhere in my column that says I feel guilt or self-loathing except when I was in college.

Of course I have racism/prejudice problems! Ha! That's why I'm writing about it. I've been working on them for decades and I've found the work very helpful.

I've only ever been to Spain. But I'm not interested in talking about other countries.

Are you not interested in talking about or looking at your own racism?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:07:17 -0000

I don't feel white people owe a debt to people of color. I feel white people owe a debt to our own humanity.

I have no idea where you got "kowtow" (might I recommend grovel instead of the culturally insensitive term "kowtow?") from anything I wrote.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:01:20 -0000

That sounds more like prejudice to me than racism? But, I don't know much about it. When people hate others based on their ethnicity, it sure can be ugly.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:59:08 -0000

Wow. That is an amazing question with answers much more complex that I could possibly address in this comments section. In fact, the answers are so complex I'm very sure I'm not the person to give them! Of course, as an opinion columnist, I'll give you some of my opinions. :-)

I think one important step is what I'm talking about in my column. That white people should drop the white guilt, get over it, and realize we won't be able to help feeling weird around people of color until we admit we do in the first place. Then we'll start being able to live and work and shop and pray and play with all kinds of people who look different than we are. This gentle kind of interpersonal balancing of the scales is important for the larger more structural changes to actually work.

Another step -- and most of the work needs to be done by white people -- is to learn about "systemic racism." I googled it and Ben & Jerry's has a decent summary: http://www.benjerry.com/wha...

Then we move on to things like the problems of mass incarceration, unjust hiring practices, racism in the healthcare system, housing... just about every aspect of our country is built in favor of those of us who pass as white.

in other words, we can't "transfer power" in the system as it is now. We can share power in systems built in new ways (again, I'm no expert, there are many people well-qualified to address the issue).

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:49:14 -0000

sure, that's true. Was there something you wanted to address in the column?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:48:49 -0000

As I've said now it two other replies, I'm trying to figure out where you all got "self-loathing" from this? I'm perfectly happy with myself. I haven't suffered the self-absorbed silliness that is "white guilt" for decades.

Are you interested in looking at your own racism?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:47:47 -0000

As I said in another reply, I'm quite surprised at how so many readers are reading my words and think I'm saying I feel guilty, or like I should be punished, or that there are crimes involved. I did say that in the 90s I used to feel guilty and cry a lot, but was it not clear that I no longer feel that way?

I get the feeling you aren't actually interested in learning about your own racism?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:45:15 -0000

Not sure who that is... googling... ...? huh? she's an artist, it looks like?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:43:41 -0000

I'm finding it interesting how so many readers are reading my words and thinking that I feel "guilty," or that I think white people are evil or that people need to apologize.

I'm actually saying that if we want to help the country be a less racist place, I've found it helpful to notice where I'm hung up on race so I can let that go.

Of course racism is bad, but I don't think white people are inherently bad -- we are just living in a society where being racist is almost impossible to avoid. I'm suggesting if we want to be helpful, we look at our own feelings about race (like, honestly, not defensively or assuming it will mean we're terrible people if we find out we've got some weirdness about people of color) and we can play a more helpful role in making our country an even better place.

Do you see how I'm not asking you to apologize for being born Caucasian?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:35:54 -0000

This is why I appreciate the comments section of my column. Where else would I get to interact with someone with overtly racist (by your description) parents? I can't even imagine it. It's lovely that you had that friendship, too.

I agree that children are mostly immune to prejudice -- in ways we adults can't avoid. But there have actually been studies of children (and I don't like to cite studies because usually we can have studies showing whatever we want to show) that show even young children learn to associate black/brown skin with negative qualities. It's amazing how sneaky the ugliness is.

You say you don't feel privileged, and I can understand that. There are a lot of white people who have hard lives. What I mean when I talk about privilege is the fact that in our country, the default is white and the exception is black and brown skin. For example, everywhere you look until the very, very recent past you expect to see white people in all the leadership roles and it's notable when it's a person of color. It's a kind of slippery concept, privilege is.

Does what I'm saying make sense?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:46:33 -0000

I replied to your post but it never appeared? The moderator didn't like it, I guess?

What I said was that some of what you are saying is correct, but it's not the whole story. Our implicit biases give us all kinds of -- oh, I cursed here, I wonder if that's why it didn't post? -- very bad and incorrect information. e.g. someone with dark skin is likely to be less intelligent or more violent. We shouldn't depend on our implicit biases to make decisions.

I also said there's no guilt here, just awareness of how bad the information can be in implicit biases.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:42:45 -0000

Who gave up? (Ha, you said "I!")

Hm. In other countries, the power structures might be different. I'm talking about here in the ol' US of A.

Did you want to talk about the USA and racism? I do agree that people who can benefit from whiteness are going to be in the minority, eventually, even in our country.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:13:45 -0000

Huh?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:13:34 -0000

That's so funny! In the late 90s I had a personal website where I posted "essays" that would now be called blog posts. I once had someone write a REALLY long criticism about my writing and she began by stating that I use the word "I" fourteen times in one essay.

Yes, my opinion columns are about me (my life experience and my opinions), so I use the word "I" a lot, it's true.

I'm not sure how your world population statement relates to the conversation? Thanks for helping me to understand.

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:11:41 -0000

Hm. I'm still not quite following your point. I do believe that all people who pass as white in the USA are racist as we all benefit from the structures that were built on stealing the land and labor from people of color.

Can you help me understand what you're trying to say?

Re: Thoughts from a well-meaning white liberal

serenebabe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:10:18 -0000

No, actually, you're describing prejudice and discrimination or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. That's prejudice, discrimination, and/or antagonism based on false beliefs.

Racism is actually a structural part of our country -- racism is the discrimination that is built into all of our institutions. It's a lot more than just being prejudiced or discriminating against an individual one at a time.

Anyone with any skin color can be prejudiced, for sure. I'd even suggest there are cases where people of color might discriminate against white people. But people of color can not be racist. They don't have that option. They can participate in the racist system, but they can't personally be racist.