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Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:07:59 -0000

hi guys haven't been around cos of builders and boyfriends and terrible legal stuff to deal with. i'm still hoping the truth will come out....

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:30:37 -0000

wow thats amazing..well done you.
I'm thinking Sonia Sutcliffe, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitken, David Mellor...in the long run, this will not go down well with the press. All the support the press have given the Mccanns and now this kick in the teeth...

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:30:14 -0000

thanks for this information lizbee...very interesting

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:36 -0000

i'm so happy that Shannon has been found alive... fantastic!

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:30:35 -0000

good glad to hear that Steve is Ok. I felt wierd us cheerily carrying on posting on his blog without knowing what was going on with him. It's like carrying on partying in someones house while they are ill upstairs...

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:24:30 -0000

Maybe José is busy? Writing his new jazz song?
The person I'm worried about is steve. He doesn't seem to have posted new stories for 2 months. I think that he has MS? So I hope he's ok.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:32:33 -0000

I also wanted to say sorry Steve for not mentioning crimeblogUs at the conference, nerves prevented me from saying more about forums plus there was quite a reaction when I mentioned that the Daily Mirror forum had been shut down and I was being interrupted. Noticed you hadn't posted much recently and hope that you are allright.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:54:50 -0000

The podcast link: http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/podcasts ... Events.htm

Quite low volume, I'm listening now

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:10:53 -0000

Interesting perspective Andrea. Do you believe that this situation wouldn't happen in Germany?

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:08:56 -0000

thanks john and maggie for commenting on his blog. he has apologized to me but in a private email!
logicman is definately fake. I think coldwater is too. I've told charlie beckett this so he's aware.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:50:49 -0000

Polis set up the event last night and the director has a blog: http://www.charliebeckett.org/?p=400

I've replied to his comment that people on forums are sad souls with sick fantasies.
" I’m the person that said that people comment on the internet and go on forums because they are frustrated with the news coverage. I think that is a valid comment and I am pretty insulted to be characterised as a sad soul with sick fantasies and bigotries.
I think it was useful to the conference for someone like me to turn up and represent the ‘commentariat’ as this has been such a huge part of the McCann media story. Please apologize for your bigoted comments."
Hopefully it'll be published.
Steve hewlett is a freelance journalist.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:26:51 -0000

Latest story from Sos maddie:
My translation:
British Government has refused the request to question the friends of the McCanns.

The letters asking for urgent interrogations of the McCann friends, sent by the Judiciary police to the United Kingdom, has been refused and returned by the Home Office minister.
" The rogatory letters were sent by the Public minister via eurojust in order to be carried out" the spokesman for the Prosecutor General of Portugal has officially confirmed, adding that " the English authorities would have raised questions regarding the use of Eurojust, the reason for which the letters were sent back through judicial cooperation".
The Prosecutor offices were obliged to clarify the situation following the publication of information confirming that the rogatory letters were still in Portugal. These documents are considered by the Judiciary police as essential in order to solve the mystery that surrounds the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
" The rogatory letters are with the offices of Jacqui Smith, but the letters have not been accepted as such" confirms one source from the Home Office, underlining that " the matter has become delicate and gordon Browns government would have difficulty in accepting that they must carry out all the demands of the Portuguese police".
http://sosmaddie.blogspot.com/2008/01/gouvernem...

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:36:56 -0000

I've just remembered another thing Clarence said: that the metodo3 guy was misquoted. He said in spanish that 'god willing, madeleine will be home for christmas' but all that was reported was 'madeleine will be home for Christmas' states private detective.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:17:31 -0000

thanks Arm. ( I wouldn't mind doing anything professionally at the moment as I have no work!). Well this is what I was referring to at the end of my piece. The press coverage doesn't at all reflect the event that I attended. I agree with Clarence Mitchell that reporting is sloppy, but for completely different reasons! (in fact I was wondering whether to say that as my question).
And as for the McCanns not being suspects, it was clear that this statement was based on Clarence's own contacts within the British police (which certainly doesn't reflect the opinions of British policemen that I know) and not at all with the Portuguese police.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:24:22 -0000

My report, and a few other comments from others added in:
I arrived early to make sure of a seat towards the front. Then the speakers arrived. Clarence Mitchell and Justine McGuinness shook hands and didn't look like they had met before.
Quite a lot of lone women in the audience but notably only one woman on the panel of speakers.
Comment from another audience member: "I forgot to mention the most pathetic thing I saw at the event tonight.
Shortly after Clarrie walked in and stood up front - at this point less than 8 feet from where I was sitting, some young Christian-looking type walked over to Clarrie and handed him an envelope.
He asked Clarrie to give it to the McCann's.
I knew there was money in the envelope - fairly thick maybe about 20-30 bills inside. The envelope looked clean and respected in a way some people treat an envelope with cash in it. I was close enough to read "Drs. Gerry and Kate McCann". Clarrie looked at the envelope, looked at me, then looked at the envelope again. When he later took the stage and had a seat, he placed the envelope in front of him and looked at it from time to time."
Kelvin Mackenzie, Steve Hewlitt, the 'moderator', and Clarence Mitchell sat at the front table whilst the others sat in the front row.
Kelvin starts speaking: This is the most significant story in my lifetime. There are only 2 known facts: 1) a child is missing 2) Her parents are the main suspects.
Every other story about the disappearance of Maddie is a spin off of these two facts.
Without finding the child this story will live in our lives forever.
Uniquely this was a middle class child who was kidnapped.
The Sun readership is mostly C1's and D2's. When I wrote a story sympathetic to the Mccanns I got the largest ever email bag between 8 and 10,000 emails. 99.9percent of them were against the McCanns. They said that the coverage was classist. There is some truth in that.
Referring to the LSE audience Kelvin said an audience like this is at odds with the population.
How a big story like this works in Britain: normally after 2/3 days journalists covering the case would have been brought together by police, off the record, and they would explain what had happened. The journalists would be given by and large 95% of the story. 5% would be held back.
Newspapers would then run a wholly accurate story which would act as a warning in a dangerous situation and stop speculation
Its now been 272 days since Madeleine has been missing. All there has been is one 3 minute conversation between the Portuguese police and a UK journalist. The stories don't come from the Portuguese police. Portuguese papers run opposing stories every other day. This is a problem for the McCanns. Everyone here is obsessed. Kelvin Mackenzie admits to being obsessed himself.
When papers put the McCanns on the front page, there is a 2 to 3% rise in circulation.
The recent story with Ashley Cole, there is a rise of 2-3 per cent for the first day, maybe the second. With the McCanns it's been that way for 9 months.
Steve Hewlitt asks: " Why are readers so negative? "
Kelvin" because of the neglect. Its a class war issue. Punishment is wanted.
Its an incredible(good) idea to get a PR. They stop the parents from doorstepping, phonecalls etc. I believe that Gerry McCann has gone back to work. (Clarence nods but insists that Kate McCann has not gone back to work and has no intention of doing so).
Ordinary people however don't associate PR with the truth. Now there are stories that Oprah and Barbara have offered all this money.
Clarence: Thats not true by the way.
The PR was necessary but there is a downside. People are suspicious. Sombody needs to help the Mccanns in the modern era. Justine and I are a buffer so that the McCanns can get on with their lives to a certain extent.
I am trying to tell the truth.
Arguido is less perjorative than the word suspect. By the way the McCanns did not phone the press before the police. There are appalling standards of journalism.Journalists are lazy and not checking the facts. Sloppy standards with newspapers. I was with the McCanns for a month as a govt advisor. Then they called me in to help them out. I am not suspicious of them. I wouldnt do this if I was. Briefing from the police mean that I am very happy to defend them. I'm not usually a person that supports causes.
an average front page puts on 70 thousand copies when they lead with the McCanns.
In todays word , with pressure to get broadcasting out, it means standards have slipped.
The Uk press lifts material from the Portuguese press which then recycles the UK press. Its distorted. They should get a green award.
Then an irish guy interrupts and says ' we've heard all this before, stop rambling on". He turns out to be from the Madeleines law campaign.
Clarence apologizes.
Steve Hewlitt asks some tough questions: this is media management ? The Morroccan sighting was untrue. Was it appropriate for this new drawing of a man to be described as a suspect in the manner of the police?
Did the police have this info?
Clarence: yes since May. And we asked Gail Cooper if the police had done a drawing of her description and she said no. So we commissioned one.
Then Roger Graef [created Dispatches documentary, and a criminologist]
After he did the documentary he realized there was nothing really to say, as there were no facts. People are talking about nothing, just unsubstantiated rumour. No sources to confirm anything.
McCanns did not want to work on the documentary or approve of it until Madeleine is found. He tried to be amusing (failing miserably). He said that he was constantly being asked to comment on this story which has no substance to it. He was of the Its disgusting how everybody treats the McCanns school of thought. Really couldn't be bothered to listen to him. But he annoyed me when he said leaving your children alone when you are on holiday is perfectly normal and everybody does it.
Then David Mills (Panorama producer who pulled out)gets up: He's another boring old male fart. He says "It raises issues about police procedure, forensic science in this country, and the British press. There are precedents in the US and there are many parallels between the Ramseys and the McCanns. He says something about the Ramseys being proved to be wholly innocent. (Don't think thats true is it?)
Then a blonde woman sitting next to me catches me tutting and hands me a leaflet for the Madeleines law campaign.
Next its Justine Mcguinness: She immediately comes across as more relevant than the two previous men. She says that the narrative of case is superficially easy to understand... this story plays to everybody's common fears. She says that the McCanns represent aspirational Britain. They've worked their way up from a working class background to 'media' careers ( everybody laughs at this freudian slip) . She corrects herself " medical' careers I mean. She admits that one editor she spoke to admitted that he changed how he covered the story based on the fact that the parents are doctors.
They made decisions at the beginning:
-to pool media access, no exclusives.
-The experts advised them to use the media.
-They made a decision to use electronic communications. And hits on websites had influenced editorial policy.
Roy Greenslade:
Everyone has a view. This story has gone in 4 phases:
1) initially- sympathy
2) skepticism, and its appropriate for journalists to adopt this tone.
3)Long period of suspicion
4) commercial cynicism.
He asks Has the media gone too far? Yes
Has the internet removed editorial limits? Yes
Have the laws on defamation been breached- Yes , people unlike journalists dont care about defamation,thats the nature of gossip.
Questions from audience start:
What this the first missing child in the UK? no
Was this the first missing child case that used a professional PR? probably.
Clarence: the portuguese police don't engage with the media at all. When they went to the british police station and saw the media room, they were like, Whats this? Why you need this?(adopting slight portuguese accent).
Next question from audience:
Has Article 8 the right to privacy and article 10 (couldn't hear) from the Human rights legislation been breached?
Didnt hear answer.
Angela from Sky news: (dumb blonde who asked dumb blonde question) Was this story big because it was a slow news day?
Kelvin: No. The story was huge in itself.
Lady from Madeleines law said angry stuff but cant remember what.
Evening standard journalist said something boring.
Madeleines law lady: What about the fund ? these Private investigators. How much do they cost?
Clarence;Cost of agency 50K? But they are actually costing 7 or 8k but the rest is for operational costs.
Another lady: Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence?
The woman next to me repeated Clarence Mitchells' claim of "knowing" Kate and Gerry are innocent. However, CM and the former Sun editor had said there was no real information - nothing came out of the police's mouths. She then asked him, based on the fact that there was no real information in the public domain, how does he know?
Clarrie replied he knows because he believes Gerry and Kate. She pushed him and stated so if you know because you believe, then you BELIEVE they are innocent. Therefore you don't really know!
Clarrie cowered and mumbled something about semantics, the girl sitting next to you got a nice little clapping for her effort and Clarrie was really humiliated.

Richard Peel Pr guy: Something about letting off balloons.
Justine gets up and defends decision to let off balloons.
I ask a question(nerves thundering through my ears): These men here and Clarence in the past have said thats its normal for British parents to leave their children alone when on holiday. This makes people furious. This sort of media is not helping the McCanns. I was frustrated with what I was reading in the press, it wasn't expressing my feelings and opinions, so I found the forums like the Daily Mirror which has been shut down (and Clarence says Yes we got that shut down) and now the 3arguidos. There are extreme opinions, both pro and anti. I'm a fence sitter who veers towards anti.
I believe that these forums and online comments express a kind of collective gut feeling that something is amiss. I then go on to say, please let me say one more thing: there is no investigative journalism any more. One poster, ellibean, went out to Praia da luz and filmed the distance between the tapas bar and the apartment. No journalist did that. They are all too busy sitting in the bar and using their exes (expenses).
Clarence nodded his agreement about lack of investigative journalism.
Clarence Mitchell: I'm not a PR. I'm a journalist. I'm not putting a spin on it. There is an image problem.I'm not critisizing the police overtly.
Steve Hewlitt: Is it appropriate for the family to be doing this?You are not the police.
Question from the audience about fund and Justine McGuinness' wages.
Justine gets up: I received 55thousand. Actually I was very generous to the McCanns. People have to earn a living.
Woman from Madeleines law shouts" its about a missing child. How dare you?
Justine: I worked 7 days a week. I have 50 voice mails. It was ovewhelming. Turning towards Clarence in plea for support: I'm sure it was for clarence too.
Clarence pipes up and says" well i'm not being paid from the fund, i'm being paid by Brian Kennedy. (slightly smugly i might add)
Then he says loudly: you want facts. These are the facts. The fund earnt 1.2 million from the website appeal. Even now kate and gerry are getting letters with small checks from small kids and old people. They are very grateful.
Now the fund is down to 570k. Thats for private detectives and poster campaigns in spain
Blonde madeleines law lady(find out her name is Debbie Butler) interrupts: I go to spain twice a week. I'm going tommorrow. I've never seen a poster there. Its all spin, its a coverup.
Then Clarence says "it will be down to 346k by end of March. This is publicly donated money.
The fund raising was forcefully raised by the madeleines law couple. Clarence was quite vociferous about there being no fraud, no spin. Nobody got a chance to ask about money for other kids. Clarence did concede that the Mccanns were lucky (lets face it being white middle class professionals with a beautiful kid my words not his) in their coverage and that the fact that say a black working class single mum in the same situation would not get the same support tells us more about the media than the McCanns. I got the feeling the attitude was more well done them for achieving this.( REmember they represent aspirational modern Britain and compassion for others probably doesn't form part of that - this is my opinion only)
There was more but thats the bulk of it. I probably missed out stuff but there will be a pod cast.
The madeleines law people handed out leaflets to people.
Steve hewlitt came up and thanked me for my question which was nice.
My impressions: that clarence actually believes what he is saying. That the other guys david mills and roger mcgraf know nothing and are not impartial.
Justine Mcguinness was well humiliated and shown up for career building greedy guts. She is now the spokesperson for the libdems (oops).
Well I wouldn't say the conference was a clarence triumph at all. Quite the opposite. He seemed to be pleading to be believed really. To be believed that he was doing this for all the right reasons and that he genuinely believed in the McCanns.
I'm surprised by the press reports coming out: their quotes do not reflect the content of the conference in my opinion. Steve Hewlett certainly put Clarence on the spot. kelvin was to the point as always.
So despite the most part of the panel being "pro" mccann, hard questions were asked.
However they talked for an hour and we got to ask questions for less than an hour. So not many questions were asked. I had so much that I wanted to say it was hard to choose.
I took a picture which i will post

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:38:19 -0000

can we have a picture metal guru?

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:13:34 -0000

He's also connected to Reina Michaelson isn't he? She's an Australian psychologist who is, I believe, involved with the religious loony group: Helping To Find Maddie.
"Reina Michaelson accused the Ordo Templi Orientis (the OTO) as being a satanic cult involved in child sacrifice. She passed the document to conspiracy theorist David Icke who published them on his website. The document was later published on other websites.
There is and was no foundation to these claims against the OTO.
Two persons posting the materials on their website were sued by the OTO and individual members for defamation.
Complaints of religious vilification under the state of Victoria’s controversial Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 (RRT), were made against Ms Michaelson who admitted authorship of the materials.
Defamation was found in the first instance and in the second, a settlement reached in which Ms Michaelson admitted that she had produced no evidence to support her claims. "

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:24:08 -0000

"Many families, whatever the final outcome, are entering a process where they often feel they have little control or information to help them understand the likely outcomes. Fears of custodial sentencing, loss of the children, break up of the adult relationships are all real fears that have to be faced. For an informal discussion on whether or not our services would be suitable for your situation please telephone 01908 225540."
Extremely dodgy. If you have nothing to hide, why employ this agency?

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:02:19 -0000

i used to post on the what are you talking about bit when i got over-maddied. But it was a bit boring and full of pro's. They are all fuming now that their boring bit has been taken over by spittle-drenched homeless maddieites.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:11:48 -0000

yes i am going. I will report back if no one else is going. I wonder if this is why the forum was shut down cos quite alot of people are going. Including lucian deville....

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:03:53 -0000

if he owns the contract is he paying them? If so, why is the fund going down so rapidly?

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:03:10 -0000

Wierd. Some of the posts were over the top but to ban it completely... I wonder if this is to do with this talk coming up....
I imagine everyone has gone over to the 3arguidos forum

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:11:39 -0000

i am going to go to this talk.

Re: The Mad Professor’s Tale, Part II

pinkdrummergirl — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:37:06 -0000

A man wanted for killing his wife, going on to commit political/terrorist crimes...as you say, that in itself is unusual, the two normally require very different profiles.
Could a crime like this be committed today? I suppose DNA and other scientific progress would mean that a link would have made more quickly.
I hope Morgan sufficiently rewarded the butler.

Re: A New Open Thread For Madeleine McCann: Six Months Later

pinkdrummergirl — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:05:36 -0000

well judging by the points system, people agree with you john and not me. Maybe I wont bother posting anymore. I happen to believe in astrology. Would people take the piss out of someone's religion? No.
Ciao.