DISQUS

Yeah, I'm pretty tired of the ranting, myself. On that note, I am going to go quell the fight/rebellion in the living room (3 boys 5 years and under)

Sorry to disappoint you Alex. When I have more time, I'll try to gather my thoughts better and give you a more compelling explanation. I was responding during a break, so had little time to 'put it together' so to speak.


I will say this, though... as a Christian, a central core belief is that we obey God, whether we fully understand something or not. We grow in our walk with God, and often have moments of "Oh! That's why you said to do it that way". I think it's rather burdensome do demand an entire thesis over every commandment before acting in obedience. In fact, it would be an insatiable process, with a lot of pain along the way. However, I do think it's important to gain a thorough understanding of scripture to know HOW to obey God, and further that understanding along the way. In the end, we serve a loving God who is also just. But, back to the loving part... he provided a means by which we can be in right-standing with him, no matter where we are at, or what we've done. He has my best interests in mind, calls me "son", and has an incredible wealth of promises. He is Love. The very definition of it. That's the God I seek to obey, even if I mess it up sometimes.

Negative effects of homosexuality... well, let's see, it steers folks from the strength & security that comes from a traditional family, and then things go down hill from there. It consequently goes from the individual to the society. Sexuality is then viewed as a "however you like it" type of thing, which causes a long chain of bondage to sexual gratification... but the acceptance of it into society makes it acceptable to everyone, and so you have an increasing number of folks who degrade the sanctity and natural purpose of sex. I'd just like to say that procreation is the practical purpose of sex, but not the only one. I could go on and on... but ANY kind of sex outside the bonds of marriage leads to bad stuff. Adultery, incest, bestiality, polygamy, pornography, etc... And why would someone get involved in such things? Because sex is a means by which two people share the most intimate physical connection anyone can have. It's addicting. It's meant to be addicting. But being drawn to sex and then satisfying it outside of heterosexual marriage leaves a dark spot... and while it's even a bit awkward for newlyweds, it's nothing compared to the guilt that almost always follows sex outside of heterosexual marraige.


Deep down, our hearts know it's meant for only one person of the opposite sex.



However, you're absolutely right in that it's just ONE of the culminations of self-worship. The moral issue of Prop 8 is homosexuality... but I could go on and on and on about the woes of immoral sexual behavior at large.

Ok, I see what you're saying now. Either way, I think it (homesexuality) has had lasting negative effects on every society that either embraced it or at least permitted it. It is, in what I can see from history, a culmination of the worship of self, and therefore a contributor to societal decline. I think we're on the same page.. but if not, just let me know.

And that would be because any culture based solely same-sex marriage would ultimately lead the population extinction. Seems like common sense to me.

I dunno... the comment in and of itself isn't beyond the character of God's judgement. Disease is definitely a trait of the fallen world we live in. But I would say that the "God-smack" comment could be substantiated when you take a look at Romans 1:25-27


They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.



The end of that scripture gives the feeling that a real physical consequence erupted due to what was going on.



HOWEVER, I agree with Randy in that we serve a God whose heart is FOR his creation. He provided the way out... salvation through Jesus Christ. He's patient and loving... but He does let us reap the consequences of our disobedience... both individually and socially.



I'll admit, I know nothing of this Phelps person, though.

Oh good grief! ;-p

Oh good grief! ;-p

LOL on the flameless part. That was pretty dang funny.
You could say you've traded in your flame for THE Flame (Holy Spirit). But... I digress.

LOL on the flameless part. That was pretty dang funny.

You could say you've traded in your flame for THE Flame (Holy Spirit). But... I digress.

Oh no u di-int! I'm all over that.

@Randy - Uhm, yeah, that's the phrase I meant to use.. "It would be great to see you Randy."
(Note to self... inviting people to come to your church with promises of bodily assault, no matter how affectionate, might negate the invitation!)
See... I have self control. ;-p

Oh no u di-int! I'm all over that.

@Randy - Ok... but I just might do a running jump hug and tackle you when you get here. :-)

@Randy - Uhm, yeah, that's the phrase I meant to use.. "It would be great to see you Randy."

(Note to self... inviting people to come to your church with promises of bodily assault, no matter how affectionate, might negate the invitation!)

See... I have self control. ;-p

That's pretty funny AND cool. The point is, they identified with you at a deeper level than just political stance. I love how in the Gospels, Jesus blew everyone's minds... the every day folks and the leaders of the day. Even Pilate. He wasn't a firebrand for anything except God himself.
God refuses to be put in a box, and it's awesome when we get to share with Him in that dynamic!
Way to go, Randy.
Hey... why don't you come and speak at our church sometime?

@Randy - Ok... but I just might do a running jump hug and tackle you when you get here. :-)

That's pretty funny AND cool. The point is, they identified with you at a deeper level than just political stance. I love how in the Gospels, Jesus blew everyone's minds... the every day folks and the leaders of the day. Even Pilate. He wasn't a firebrand for anything except God himself.

God refuses to be put in a box, and it's awesome when we get to share with Him in that dynamic!

Way to go, Randy.

Hey... why don't you come and speak at our church sometime?

Emily: Wow! Now that's what I call being closer to Atonal as opposed to having discord. I am humbled and thrilled by your response at the same time.
There's still hope! :)

Wooooww!!! The most frustrating thing about trying to have a conversation with someone who disagrees is when they are nothing less than hell-bent on starting a fight.
If Christians, Jews, and Muslims would all just agree to respectfully discuss the issues till the end of time, INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ABOUT IT, then I think the discussions would actually get somewhere.
Great job, Randy, for identifying the 'fight bait'. People who approach issues like that should never be given a platform, no matter WHAT their take is on the issue.
Another thought: A debate can either be like atonal music, or discord. But only one is actually music, able to be enjoyed by many.

Emily: Wow! Now that's what I call being closer to Atonal as opposed to having discord. I am humbled and thrilled by your response at the same time.

There's still hope! :)

Wooooww!!! The most frustrating thing about trying to have a conversation with someone who disagrees is when they are nothing less than hell-bent on starting a fight.

If Christians, Jews, and Muslims would all just agree to respectfully discuss the issues till the end of time, INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ABOUT IT, then I think the discussions would actually get somewhere.

Great job, Randy, for identifying the 'fight bait'. People who approach issues like that should never be given a platform, no matter WHAT their take is on the issue.

Another thought: A debate can either be like atonal music, or discord. But only one is actually music, able to be enjoyed by many.

America has been, and is continuing to fail as a society based on sound moral judgement. All one needs to do is take a look at the Law Practices of today.
The truth is, we're living in a broken world, and these little 'legal victories' for social issues that are ultimately destructive are simply coded manifestations of that truth. America is not perfect, has never been perfect, and will continue to get worse. We seemed to have had a less evil time in history (as it relates to social behavior) but then, people had to carry guns on a regular basis, too.
The gay marriage issue is but one item on America's list of national sins.
HOWEVER....
God promises many things to those who obey him. For those of us who struggle with SSA, we can rest in the fact that although the feelings are intense, we know we're in a place of blessing by simply obeying God. We don't have to explain ourselves to the world, but we will ALL have to give an account before the throne of Judgement! I'm going to take the long-term approach and do my best to obey God now so that I'm not having to pay for it in the end. It's just not worth it. This goes for ALL the issues, too!

America has been, and is continuing to fail as a society based on sound moral judgement. All one needs to do is take a look at the Law Practices of today.

The truth is, we're living in a broken world, and these little 'legal victories' for social issues that are ultimately destructive are simply coded manifestations of that truth. America is not perfect, has never been perfect, and will continue to get worse. We seemed to have had a less evil time in history (as it relates to social behavior) but then, people had to carry guns on a regular basis, too.

The gay marriage issue is but one item on America's list of national sins.

HOWEVER....

God promises many things to those who obey him. For those of us who struggle with SSA, we can rest in the fact that although the feelings are intense, we know we're in a place of blessing by simply obeying God. We don't have to explain ourselves to the world, but we will ALL have to give an account before the throne of Judgement! I'm going to take the long-term approach and do my best to obey God now so that I'm not having to pay for it in the end. It's just not worth it. This goes for ALL the issues, too!

That's outrageous! That ruling basically says that a state bill has the authority to overrule a constitutional right.
I'd say this kind of thing needs greater legal discourse and interpretation.