Disqus - Latest Comments for Curtis

Re: Jack Bristow at 31 Weeks

Curtis — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:47:31 -0000

Bristow, that is awesome, so cool to see in 3D. Love the background music, so dramatic! Praying for you and especially Jaime.

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:59:52 -0000

Bristow,

I can't help but reply! Your central theme seems to be that a christian is a follower of Jesus Christ. Good and true, but I think the problem that begins to emerge is what does this look like, how is it expressed. The difficulty it seems that you are having is that even those who are often considered heretical groups call themselves followers of jesus christ. Two thoughts, 1. Even Jesus said that some would call on him lord, lord, and he would respond that he never knew them. 2. How well do I have to follow Jesus Christ to be a Christian? If I say that I follow Muhammed, Budha, or some other person how closely do I have to align with them to truly be a follower of them? I think this question emerges when you use the broad definition of a christian as a follower of JC. Some 80-90% of americans call themselves christians, but look, and act little like JC, even those in the church sometimes don't look and act like JC. This isn't a question of theology, but rather of living out and acting like Christ, believing like he believed, believing what he believed about himself, not theology, but Christology! I'm not a very good follower if I don't believe what he did right, or even what he believed about himself. This puts JC as central, what he thought and did central, and if a Christian is a follower of JC then these things must be central, otherwise I can make Jesus into whoever and whatever I want and say I am a follower of his with the bits and pieces I have taken of him and be okay.

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:44:21 -0000

Jeff,

the issue with some groups that are not considered christian is that they mess with the deity of jesus Christ. If someone makes jesus less than completely God, or puts themselves or others in the same position of jesus christ then you have the issue of how can Jesus' sacrifice help us. He know longer is a sinless sacrifice that can cover our sins, he simply becomes a human version of the OT sacrifices which didn't truly satisfy. When you mess with the divinity of Jesus, you mess with the ability for him to forgive us our sins. I would say it is impossible for jesus' sacrifice to save us without him being God, and that is where these certain groups begin to fall apart, no matter how much they say that Christ's sacrifice saves them, if he is not divine he has no ability to do so.

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:23:58 -0000

Don't have alot of time now, but here is what I came up with real briefly:

-Jesus was killed for saying he was God.

-Peters confession of faith.

2 cor. 5:21

Whole book of Romans (Rom 5, 3:24-25

Is. 53:5, 11
1 Pet. 2:24
2 Cor. 5:21
Gal. 3:10-13

Deity of Christ in NT
John 1:1-3, John 20:28, Rom. 9:5, Gal 1:1, Phil 2:6, Col. 2:9
Titus 2:13, Heb. 1:3
2 Peter 1:1, 1 john 5:20

-We know the penalty of sin is death, and all have sinned, and all deserve death. Therefore the only way in which a sinful person can be saved is through a sinless sacrifice. The issue of a sinless sacrifice by a finite being is that it will only cover one persons’ sins. Thus a sinless, divine, infinite in nature God in human form is need to cover all man’s sins. A sinful sacrifice can’t redeem us!

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:03:46 -0000

Jeff,

your main point was that there are those who believe "Jesus Christ died for the remission of sin" yet are not considered Christian. This is the reason I focused on his deity. How can you put your faith in, and why would you put your faith in a person who can not remit our sins? A Jesus without being Deity has no means to forgive sins. I agree we don't have to have everything figured out about Jesus, I agree we all probably have areas that are not 100% accurate, I agree we are saved by Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross. But in order for me to believe that Jesus can take away my sins I have to believe he is God, otherwise he is not able to do so. The Jews seem to understand this - they don't think Jesus is the messiah, so why would, and how can they put their faith in him to take away their sins?

I just don't see how you can put your faith in Jesus for the remission of your sins without believing that he is capable of taking away your sins. I am not trying to add to the requirements of salvation, but If I don't have a proper understanding to begin with, how can I actually put my faith in him in the first place. If I believe that Jesus is not God, and thus able to take away my sins, how can I properly place my faith in him for the remission of my sins? I could put my faith in you for salvation, but if you can't deliver the goods what good does it do me? The difference is we know that Christ is capable to forgive. I still see where your question arises, and I don't know if there is a verse I can pick out, but I have a hard time thinking that Christ's blood covers a person who doesn't believe that Christ blood is capable of covering their sins, but believes in Jesus the person. Can you believe in Jesus without the Christ for the remission of sin?

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:52:46 -0000

Jeff,

You said, "The issue is people who do believe that Jesus is fully capable to forgive them of their sins. But those same people do not believe that Jesus is God." how is he capable of forgiving their sins if he is not God??? That is my issue, how can he forgive if he is not God? What are they putting their faith in? Why and how can they put their faith in him?

Their lack of understanding that Jesus is God makes their belief less valid because the jesus they are putting their faith in is not the Jesus of the bible, and is not able to forgive their sins. Basically they are putting their faith in a jesus other than the biblical one, in another Jesus who can't forgive their sins. Jesus has to be able to forgive my sins for them to be forgiven, right?

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:56:01 -0000

What makes Jesus able to forgive their sins if he is not God? That is the core of my questions/problem with their belief. I think when you get to the heart of this question you will get into a works salvation or some other form of salvation other than purely by the blood of Christ.

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:33:03 -0000

You said that your acceptance of God was not based on Jesus being God, but being able to forgive. Yet his ability to forgive/save is because he is God whether you recognize it or not you were saying he was God. Now to say he isn't God then takes away his ability to save, and without Jesus being God he is just a good moral teacher who died who has no ability to forgive my sins. People who say they believe in jesus for forgiveness of sins and don't believe he is God are simply people who believe in a person by the same name as the guy in the bible, but not him. Why don't we call him Joe. I can believe that Joe died for my sins and put faith in him, but if has no ability to do so does it save me? No. Same thing with those who believe in a Jesus who has no ability to forgive sins.

I understand where you are coming from and think we are in a cyclical discussion now. Don't know if I can say anymore, but it again sounds like they have the Jesus without the Christ, and I don't know that a Jesus without the Christ can save!?

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:39:13 -0000

Read Acts 2:36-38. This seems to give a pretty clear indication. This is what Peter said to convince the Jews Jesus was the messiah, and they turned to him.
maybe this helps

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:44:33 -0000

I am not sure I am really tracking with you anymore. Because in one sense you will use a holistic approach (tongues), but for what is needed to accept Christ you will not (you are seeking a magic bullet verse). With what you are saying about these particular groups, why couldn't a person pull that over to any religion that says that they believe whoever for the remission of theirs sins. They believe in that person, so Christ should cover them right??? It would be no different from a Jesus who is not God and therefore can't forgive.

What separates Jesus as the only way to salvation for you if it is not that he can indeed forgive sins by being God?

I think in the holistic sense of scripture understanding the messiah going to the jews you see very clearly that it is very critical that Jesus is God and able to forgive our sins which is necessary for the Jews to understand in order to accept Christ. those who couldn't believe this didn't accept christ. the whole of scripture proves this and there is no need for one magic verse to tell the Jews that. Why do the gospels focus so much on his Lordship and being the Christ if this is not the critical step for the Jews to get to in order to accept Jesus. It seems like this argument is going to the place of you need an explicit verse when the whole of scripture is implicitly pointing to it.

Re: Disqualified Christians

Curtis — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:43:56 -0000

Jeff,

I suppose theoretically what you are saying could be true: A person could put their trust and belief in Jesus for the Remission of Sin (singular) and not believe that he is God. However the practical implications of this would be that Jesus would be like the OT sacrafices and as soon as a person sinned since Jesus is finite he would have to die all over again for our sin. each time we subsequently sinned Jesus would have to die on the Cross, thus having Jesus not be God means he has to probably die millions of times each day for each individual sin. that is why we need Jesus to be infinite. As scripture tells us Jesus died once for all.

Re: Jack Bristow at 31 Weeks

Curtis — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:47:31 -0000

Bristow, that is awesome, so cool to see in 3D. Love the background music, so dramatic! Praying for you and especially Jaime.

Re: The Crisis of Identity

Curtis — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:16:13 -0000

Just saw a great 5 minute clip at www.buddycremeans.com where he is talking with Troy Gramling. Troy says that we need environments of truth telling, but also where we need to be honest with ourselves. I think we struggle with identity when we are not honest with ourselves. When we try to sugarcoat who we are rather than the naked truth we deceive ourselves, and therefore cannot know ourselves. Also we live in a time when are identity is tied to what we do and this will just mess you up. Unfortunately the church only enhances this sometime by using such ideas as 'calling' and then your identity is your job.