DISQUS

Ok this actually made me giggle.


I'm convinced he REALLY thinks he's Black or was...



ROFL



He's like so... oppressed.

Another thought:


What the Civil Rights Laws did was make discrimination based race, color gender, and religion illegal. It did not and could not make bigotry illegal. What the Civil Rights could not do is legislate the minds and hearts of Americans. It's time to have the conversation that the Civil Right movement didn't have.



I suggest a CYBER town hall! This site talk with a white site... about this.

As diseases go I think the United States is schizophrenic about race.

B Serious wrote:
I pose this open question . . .



Are we missing a larger opportunity whenever we’re confronted with a situation like this? How much can we expect to gain by trying to shame white corporate institutions into taking action on behalf of black interests?



______________________



Yes, we are missing a larger opportunity and that opportunity is the one to discuss the issue. As soon as Jesse and Rev Al got in the mix the last time I knew they were going to move in to shut him down, show some false sense of power. Power is not pulling his sponsors, power is leading a thoughtful discussion.



Common sense is no common and there are a number of perspective that are viewed as correct, pumping up political correctness takes a way from the REAL POINT that there are racist assumptions embedded in his statement. Address the issue of black male incarceration rates, stereotyping, racial profiling and how Imus lends credence to a society that continues to declare open season on black men. He will say til the cows come home how he not racist, like many liberals do.



I love an openly racist conservative... makes for a real discussion every time. Racist liberals dance around the words so much you can never get to their beliefs which are clearly reflected in their words...



The time is now to STOP letting Rev AL and Jesse Jacskon take the lead on these issues. We need to ask people of a different generation to voice our thoughts. We need to light up the blogosphere with this stuff. Makes me think of Jay Z when he said, "I'm not looking at you, I'm looking past you." Let's stop talking TO Imus and start talking ABOUT him in a way that highlights his ignorance (misinformation about the role he plays in perpetuating racism.)



So can we shame white America? No. Can we elevate the issue to a discussion, yes. Political Correctness takes place when we assume that everyone knows what was said was wrong... except in most cases white people don't know or don't believe it (this is where data comes in.) Shaming is the reason we're in this mess still.



And as an aside, I'm still pissed they wanted to bury the "N word." Are you kidding me? Its a word that means a lot to a lot of different people... so bury it without a real cross cultural discussion? Without a real cross generational discussion? Que estupido.

LOL @ the conservative wing of JJP

Rikyrah- per usual you are dead on.


I have a few questions to ask whomever:



Have we assumed the position of "wanting" to be invited tot he table?



Should we assume a position that perhaps there are MANY strong, intelligent, professionally powerful women or MEN for that matter who we can ask to speak up in defense of Michelle Obama and skip the likes of Steinhem and her band of myopic racists?



If we have our own table, and I do believe we do, then it is time for us to re-energize, starting writing op eds in every newspaper and ask those of power and those who support the fair treatment of women and condemn racism to speak up.



If we publicly call the major feminists orgs out, they will have to take a stand... But if they do't, we should have others take the reigns (sp?) of defending the best example of feminism that I have personally seen in while, Michelle Obama.

One of my favorite moments of Tim Russert was him asking Hillary about her campaign promise (made in some obscure upstate NY newspaper) of creating one hundred (i think) jobs in upstate NY. She said, "Well I guess I assumed we would have controlled the House," He said then should be assume your campaign promises are based in the assumption of being in control of Congress?


Anyone remember that?



He'd always come up with obscure proof. Loved it. I will miss his research prowess.

Should I assume that all of you saw the video tape?


I saw parts of one. Didn't look like him to me, definitively anyway.

Anonymous Anonymous said...


It is not their whiteness that is showing, it is their hatred of men that is showing. The more men in the party try and pressure them into accepting Obama, the greater the backlash.



They decisions are based solely on emotion and the more they stay emotionally geared up the more entrenched their positions become.



Best to just leave it alone and soon cooler heads will prevail.



Any white woman who supported Hillary coming to this site would be shocked at the vitriol spewed here.



Unity? My a**



__________________



I think the point for many on this site that the focus not be soley on the white feminist perspective. The article is:

An Open Letter to Certain White Women Who Are Threatening to Withhold Support from Obama in November





Here's an important fact: There have been just about 500 years of slavery and other legal forms of oppressing black people in the United States which ended just 45 years ago or so.



You use the word vitriol like, again, we are not allowed to be angry to be treated as less than white people. This word assumes that white people and black people are treated fairly and equally in this land.



There is a HUGE difference between saying we are born equal under the stars and our experiences are equitable. You speak from the position of the former, we, the latter. Silence does not help secure equity. It ensures the status quo.



I want Unity. Acknowledge the racism and we'll be on that path.

CPL, big up!


There are two issues on the table as I see it.



One is the election- Obama's work is ahead of him and all of us for sure.



The second is the flare of up of old school racism in the feminist movement.



In this election- those to issues converge. For many ont his site your only concern is the election. Ok I get that. For the others, especially women of color who have been living Sojouner's TRUTH [asking the perpetual question: And ain't I a woman?] this issue was yet another historical smack in the face. I don't want to be smacked around and treated as an insignificant demographic anymore. This invisibility and general insignificance permeates into EVERY aspect of our society from health to wealth.



And yes, I am a woman.

Town said...


Our candidate won. Period. We don't have to deal with rejection or any of the feelings that Clinton supporters are going thru. We have to be the bigger person.







_________



To take a page right out of feminism I would encourage us to use a BOTH/AND framework to this challenge. EITHER/OR approaches to this moment in time would require us a people of color, to not take up the issues we have with (some) feminists. So yes, we should and will push forward, but we should also consider the pain and anger that comes from experiencing oppression from a group we have had so much history with. They have benefited from Civil Rights legislation more so than people of color!



You know aside from Hillary there were MANY white women who had the power to broaden the discussion of power, privilege, and the experience of difference in the media... and they added fuel to fires I have burning inside of me this last year.



I think we women of color should do something about. Is it time for women of color to raise up and communicate our discontent?



Town- I'm still fighting for this nation, and having Senator Obama become President is just one important goal.

Blogger Admiral Komack said...


I loved it.

Do you have a link?





Go to TimWise.org and hit the essays.







@Against Race Politics

firstly it is ironic that you choose THIS as your handle, since it is exactly what you are playing when you choose to assert that a Obama has a responsibility to protect the white woman. It is really easy to proclaim Obama is bad for not interrupting a speech he was making to take on the HIS passionate crowd, but Hillary Clinton had a months to interject how inappropriate the her supporters have been. That said, you can be racist without using the word race that is by deeming our issues invisible and not as important. Re read the article.

Jelana-


I don't disagree with you, but that was the lesson that white girls learned. People of color learned a different lesson from this moment in history.

I haven't read all of the posts in their entirety so I'll just add my two cents and you can do with it what you will.


As a person of color and participant of this year's democratic party's election I am left feeling injured. Many people are not going to care about this at all and many people will know what I mean. If you don't care about this then stop reading now and go about your life.



I got engaged in this election early on and have donated time, money, and effort to Obama's campaign. I did this for the similar reasons that Clinton's supporters did. I was running towards change, disheartened by the state of our nation, war, and the failing economy. I am truly invested in living in a nation I am proud of. So I know what Michelle was talking about- screw the pomp and circumstance. Again, I wasn't working against Hillary, I was working for Barrack. Like many I was familiar with the Clinton's brand and their great track of effort working for people of color. [In retrospect, I'll need to look into this some more because it is hard to believe now...]



The media attention on Hillary and the hurt and disappointment of her constituency has left me angry. Most of the pain that I feel is what her process did to the election, to our nominee, and to the country. Hillary Clinton and her surrogates injected racial and gender divisiveness intentionally and in the worst possible ways. The high road was a path never taken by the Clinton campaign, as it was the low road they expected to win on. Once it was clear that Obama was not going to misstep, at least not as often as Hillary Clinton, they endeavored to throw salt into national wounds by pitting men against women, whites against everyone else. She had a number of times to affirm her values on race and racism, and she resisted showing her leadership- because the open wound helped her favorables. If anyone should have shown leadership, it was SHE with all of her experience. She the role model. She a former first lady. She a Senator. What did the little girls learn after watching this primary? Gender trumps race, and apparently no one experiences these issues as much as white women. Puhlease.



Sexism helped her in numerous ways. What would have happened if Obama had that tearful moment in New Hampshire? Our sexist cultural norms would have everyone call him soft and not capable of leading a nation. Through the same sexist lens Clinton Feminists saw that as a moment where her truth emerged- an enlightened, benevolent leader. Yeah I didn't see her screaming HEY THAT WAS SEXIST!!!! In fact when Obama responded to the personal attacks she proclaimed, “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen” even though she regularly complains about the heat…



Now the primary is over, her people are pissed but they were not the ones ATTACKED by the Obama campaign, MSM yes- Obama, no. Obama and his constituents WERE ATTACKED by the Clintons, MSM, and their supporters. We were called idealists, stupid, naive, then in the same breath academics, cult like, or racist for wanting to see someone other than a white person win the white house. Anyone wanted to see the role of position evolve were thought of as ridiculous saps that know nothing of the importance… Apparently Barrack couldn’t field a 3am phone call but Hillary was talking loopy at 11pm. Supposedly, black people only voted for him because of race- erasing any possibility that there are intelligent people of color who also see his merits, not to mention white people, her peers, who said NO to the Hillary. White women however, never got polled about voting because of Hillary’s gender…



This is not to say Hillary was not mistreated by the media, but her history in this country, especially having to do to with the Clinton machine, campaign strategy, and professional style has made a long list of enemies- Barrack had NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. She did NOT walk in with a clean slate. But instead of elevating the issues, like Obama did with his speech on race, she did nothing. She blamed, she deflected, she lied, and she did not apologize.



Now there are all these white women- sorry but I have to say it. I can say "women," but frankly we live in a racial divided country whether white people recognize it or not. Whites have the privilege of being invisible, regarded the standard that every non white is compared to, so when the media says women they mean WHITE women. Racial groups are apparently not gendered, so I will claim my own groups- Latina and female. WHITE WOMEN are upset, now here we go... let's draw all of our attention on them, their needs, their desires, their dreams, and their feelings and to hell with what I need.



Aside from needing a real leader in the White House, I need white women to acknowledge that their fight resulted in stepping on- scratch that- TRAMPLING on people of color, including women of color in order to have their say. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have had their say, because they should. What I am saying is that right now I am so ANGRY because white women, ruffed me up for a year and now you want Barrack Obama to apologize to you? Kiss your ass for your vote? I should try and win you? You get the covers of magazines, the benefit of the standard of beauty, and everything else and I should what? Try and get you to vote for YOUR ISSUES?



In recent history there have been a number of moments where whites and people of color (and people with critical consciousness on race in the AmeriKKKa) have our racial truths emerge NATIONALLY as a sick country. The OJ Simpson trial comes to mind, and now we have another moment where blacks and whites sit on opposite sides of the fence. With this moment in time however, my beef is SPECIFICALLY with white women.



They- WHITE WOMEN'S RACISM aka WHITE FEMINISM has picked a wound we were all too polite to pay any attention to since the 70s. And this wound will forever, I fear, disable our capacity to work together. The fight and the struggle of so many feminists of color were the histories that impacted my view of my own power as a woman. It was what I had to read to recognize that my culture does not always fall in sync with white America, and that’s ok I’m still a feminist. Over this last year, I actually feel what women whom I see as she-roes experienced- white women not giving a shit about us. It's about their lives, their experiences, their dreams, and their desires- in tact and without regard for other's struggles despite the fact that they run congruently or parallel to theirs. Forget about we. On the road Hillary was saying me first, party second. White feminists were saying- white women first and the hell with the rest, including women of color.



For you people who are saying that we should get over it, I have to say respectfully. FUCK YOU. My silence for so long allowed you to believe you can dominate me. Our country is where it is because of the countless number of times you completely disregarded my people's needs, dreams, and will. True feminism invokes dialogue but you didn’t want to dialogue- you wanted a Hillary Clinton fight.



I want an apology for the dirty fight, the selfish fight, the racist fight that Hillary Clinton and her supporters waged. Every time a Clinton feminist joined in on Reverend Wright racism, you said I don’t have respect for sisters of color. Hit the WIKI for 49 others reasons… and give me some more time, I’ll think of some more reasons in addition to that. You all owe ME an apology.



I could care less about your individual votes. I will work with you on this election because it is bigger than just me, but I need to heal too. Let me just say that a Presidential win will not be enough to get over this beef.

D-


I think Hillary is finally awake and conscious of reality. Charlie "And I never had a Bad Day Since" Rangel and Chuck Schumer gave her the the wake up call... "Hillary you're screwing this up for everyone! WTF?!?!?!?"



This is not say she is secretly hoping some racist nut comes out of bag on Obama... But I KNOW Obama wouldn't help her with the debt if there was ANY chance she wasn't fully out of the race.



By the way, when she said "Yes we can..." I got mad. lol

She suspended her campaign, D, do she can continue to raise money to pay off her debt. Obama is asking his big donors to help her pay of her debt. If I were them, I'd give enough to pay everything BUT the 11 million she loan herself. Some lessons need to be expensive enough to stick...

Too much emphasis on gender and not enough on policy! Makes me think her supporters were only supporting her because of her gender. Hmm. Interesting.


Could you imagine if Obama gave a consession speech like that? I did this for the Black people... this is for everyone who was enslaved, made to feel less than.... Racism is a MF... PLEASE. White privilege is so real right now.

Bill was out there saying whatever he wanted, especially racist ish. Is he going to endorse Obama too? Will her RECANT the stuff he told people from PA, OHm and WV?

ms Irish-


Let us know when you are back and we can continue to discuss notions of codified language. I encourage you however to take a look at the Clinton Wiki on race...

Teacher via FocusedPurpose-


TELL THA TRUTH!!!!!!! [snapping, clapping, jumping up and down]





Ms Irish- before you get mad at what was said remember that women of color were marginalized or sent to the fringes of the "women's movement," so all of this is not being thought of all of sudden now. This is at the heart of Black Feminism, multicultural feminism, or womanism depending on what side of the fence you studied on. It is what happens when we acknowledge the complexities of intersecting identities...



Thanks for sharing that Teacher... makes me feel like I have another site I need to frequent.

E Irish-


There's a lot of passion on this blog. ALOT. We are invested for a lot more reasons that just a presidential candidate. Its centuries of conversations that we had together in our dining room that is NOW making it onto the national stage. What most people don't understand is this: what the civil rights did for us is say out loud that we are equal, so if you (meaning Hillary,) is trying to take away the piece of MY PIE then I'm busting you up.





Obama deserves an equal share of that dream that she had. Sure she's been dreaming a lot longer than Obama, but this is not to say that i has been harder.



I can see being guided by the "logic" of experience and policy etc, but there is another school o thought that is then inherently diminished by you "standard." That standard was created by European Americans of a particular class. The standard is white and male and upper middle class.



I'll speak for myself and not the other people on here: I will not be shut down again by white people asserting what the right standard is for this position. Your language is codified- even if you do not intend it. This is more than an election. It is an expression of history and the very fight that must happen, every day, until we all change.



I feel like with this election I am finally invested enough to learn- which is why I came to JJill- and I have. A lot of smart, experienced people in here that are no better primed to assert who is the better candidate than I am. I may not have as much education or knowledge of politics, but that is just a reflection of my personal history. I came here to struggle... Sometimes I don;t understand half the stuff people say, but I struggle. You may not agree, but you can still struggle.



If you give up this opportunity to struggle with us- about these matters, then you are losing out. Segregation in force.



May you be blessed on your path.

Obama telling Good Morning America "Leave My Wife Alone." Dead ass serious.

I think their viewpoint is not something that Obama can change, as the issue is not one that he can speak to. He can't change their minds. Its time for WOMEN to say that their reliance on the "fight," was the downfall of feminism. There are MANY women of a certain age (post civil rights generation,) that wants NOTHING to do with them. We need their votes, but who is going to change them? Can we change the minds of the overt racists who wore the curious george t shirts? Ferraro and her clique will die with their opinions and their loss.


I say we RAMP up voter registration. Get our organizing together with buses, cars and vans to polls and say F the angry ones.



This is a valid question, and I apologize for being so pissy- but hell if I am not fed up with needing to focus all of my attention on the angry white women. As a powerful woman of color, I'm over it. Do you know how often we have to stop and pay attention to the crying white woman, the angry red faced white woman etc. I'm over. For once this is NOT ABOUT THEM.



Obama never fully received credit for his merits or even the nomination. I want one week of not talking about other people!

S-
Hillary Clinton has YET to leave the race. You and every other non Clinton supporter knew this was over. Oh yes, except for Hillary supporters who felt like the one name that CAN change the rules mid election would.



Once she leaves the race (now its kicking and screaming and without ANY grace, maturity, or care for the party) Obama will do the right thing. He's done everything to respect her brand and they have taken every opportunity to assert their inevitability over the will of the people. Who is really drinking the Kool aid?



Once Hillary leaves, he'll deal with you- respectfully I'm sure.



And just a bit on the young man BS. As a young woman and professional there is much to be said for experience. However, experience does not mean skill. It does not mean vision. It does not mean leadership, intelligence, or good judgment.



His youth has shown a capacity to our fund raise, out organize, out manage an amazing organization. Hillary's mismanagement of their funds required to loan herself money twice. If the Obama was HALF as intelligent, half the leader, etc he could NOT have gotten out of the hole Hillary got her into... So you are drunk off her so called experience so much so that you don't see the HUGE mistakes she made. If she can't balance her campaign funds, how is she going to balance the national budget? Will she throw more money (she doesn't have,) to fix the problems of the nation ie: gas tax?



Right now, as a Latina FEMINIST he has shown himself to have all of the characteristics of a GREAT leader. Perhaps not the qualities of our traditional leadership read, but homegirl he's going for greatness- and I'm going with him.



White feminists OWE ME an apology- for disgracing feminsim, again and again.



Sorry Rikyah... this pissed me off

Check out Jon Steart and the Daily Show's clip on the historic moment. Hilarious.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/jon-stewart-mocks-hillary_n_105386.html