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Alexander
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1 year ago
in the truth about Jehovah’s Witness, part 3 on BibleDude.net
If you are a woman and your husband tells you to hit your kids so hard that they turn blue if they disobey, would you do it just because the bible hammers on the fact that woman should be obedient to their husbands? Of course not! In this case, Caesar's law is bigger, and in a court she would receive punishment for acting upon her husbands command.
Yet would she be hypocritical because she pleads with her husband for a mild solution? Of course this does not conflict with anything! She will try to get her husband stray from something bad, so that she may both obey Caesar AND her husband eventually.
Similarly, Christians try to obey Caesar to the best of their ability, without straying from the bigger law. (such as: you won't kill)
ps: even if you killed people in the military, it doesn't matter, because the past is the past, and you can not be held accountable for not knowing something. it's like a kid doing something bad without understanding why. when they are grown up nobody will blame that adult for it, because they accept that every person goes through a learning process.
Yet would she be hypocritical because she pleads with her husband for a mild solution? Of course this does not conflict with anything! She will try to get her husband stray from something bad, so that she may both obey Caesar AND her husband eventually.
Similarly, Christians try to obey Caesar to the best of their ability, without straying from the bigger law. (such as: you won't kill)
ps: even if you killed people in the military, it doesn't matter, because the past is the past, and you can not be held accountable for not knowing something. it's like a kid doing something bad without understanding why. when they are grown up nobody will blame that adult for it, because they accept that every person goes through a learning process.
1 year ago
in the truth about Jehovah’s Witness, part 3 on BibleDude.net
It was a mistake from my part to comment like that, but the logic behind my case stands firm. But please don't try to be all sweet and sugar. You were not sweet and sugar to use words like hypocrite in your original post in conjunction with "your opinion" arguments. Let's just stick to the logic and as for the other part, I apologized for that, and I meant it.
I am not representative for Jehovah's Witnesses or what they believe. Only the governing body can help you there, and if you seek answer to questions from them, you should write them directly so they may answer you. I am just another imperfect person with some knowledge of the bible. What I'm writing is not that important and it's certainly not flawless.
Still i disagree with you.
Jesus and Peter clearly demonstrated what it means to submit to government. It means doing everything they ask as long as it doesn't conflict directly with god-given commands. If there is a gray area .. then the decision should be made on a bible-trained conscience foundation, with respect to a person's free will.
Clearly that applies to refusing militairy service where killing is involved, and to a conscience matter where accepting alternative duty is involved (such as administration or red cross)
Early christians did NOT respect a government ban to stop preaching because it was in direct conflict with Jesus' command to go and make disciples out of all nations of the world, and preaching the kingdom of God.
Paul was in jail for similar reasons, and yet used the system in place by going to court.
Jesus prayer you mention further confirm what I argue. You said: "I guess another point that I could make is around a prayer of Jesus where he stated that we not be separated from the world, but protected from the evil one."
This means in one aspect that Christians should seek to be good citizens, as Jesus demonstrated, paying taxes - even if they seem unreasonable. Another theme from what Jesus said is repeated in various instances too: we should not ask God to take away our trials, but instead for his support to be able to stand firm in our trial. Reward is ultimately in a future 'paradise' - yet also protection from harmful practices in our current life that contradict with godly wisdom. (such as smoking, etc)
An example is Lot - he was a servant of God in an immoral enviroment. He was trading and interacting with the people around him - yet he also was not part of the immoral world around him, since God chose to save him and his daughters. This indicates he did not forsake his principles.
An example is Job - God did not take away his trials - allowed him to stand firm despite problems and prove his faith.
An example is Noach.
God does not take away trial, he helps us endure it. Read Jacob 1st chapter for insight on this matter. It's beautiful. He was a half brother of Jesus.
As a nation, it was different for Israel, and it should be different for gods people as a nation in todays day. Israel had to separate themself from the '"world'" .. have nothing in common with people who worshipped Baal etc.
However when Jesus lived, he lived in a Roman province. He taught us to respect the law, because our kingdom is no longer of this world. Christians should be members of Gods Kingdom, and see God as the ultimate ruler.
Whatever time is left for earthly kingdom is temporary .. as Daniel propheticed to Nebuchanezar. It's all until God's Kingdom replaces them. Jesus prayed for this (mat 6) A good example for you to read is how the young jews refused to eat the Babylonian food, yet Daniel was able to cooperate with the king!! The point is to stand up for your belief, not cowardly, when an issue is pressed that you can not bring in agreement with your conscience. By being good citizens otherwise, we can gain support for our consciencious objections, and praise God's name because we follow Jesus' example.
What i'm saying is: the bible is consistent. God allows these Caesars in relative power.
My point was already made with Paul in my initial post. Yes he did what he did. But the point is his example is in the inspired word of God, as an example for Christians.
I am not representative for Jehovah's Witnesses or what they believe. Only the governing body can help you there, and if you seek answer to questions from them, you should write them directly so they may answer you. I am just another imperfect person with some knowledge of the bible. What I'm writing is not that important and it's certainly not flawless.
Still i disagree with you.
Jesus and Peter clearly demonstrated what it means to submit to government. It means doing everything they ask as long as it doesn't conflict directly with god-given commands. If there is a gray area .. then the decision should be made on a bible-trained conscience foundation, with respect to a person's free will.
Clearly that applies to refusing militairy service where killing is involved, and to a conscience matter where accepting alternative duty is involved (such as administration or red cross)
Early christians did NOT respect a government ban to stop preaching because it was in direct conflict with Jesus' command to go and make disciples out of all nations of the world, and preaching the kingdom of God.
Paul was in jail for similar reasons, and yet used the system in place by going to court.
Jesus prayer you mention further confirm what I argue. You said: "I guess another point that I could make is around a prayer of Jesus where he stated that we not be separated from the world, but protected from the evil one."
This means in one aspect that Christians should seek to be good citizens, as Jesus demonstrated, paying taxes - even if they seem unreasonable. Another theme from what Jesus said is repeated in various instances too: we should not ask God to take away our trials, but instead for his support to be able to stand firm in our trial. Reward is ultimately in a future 'paradise' - yet also protection from harmful practices in our current life that contradict with godly wisdom. (such as smoking, etc)
An example is Lot - he was a servant of God in an immoral enviroment. He was trading and interacting with the people around him - yet he also was not part of the immoral world around him, since God chose to save him and his daughters. This indicates he did not forsake his principles.
An example is Job - God did not take away his trials - allowed him to stand firm despite problems and prove his faith.
An example is Noach.
God does not take away trial, he helps us endure it. Read Jacob 1st chapter for insight on this matter. It's beautiful. He was a half brother of Jesus.
As a nation, it was different for Israel, and it should be different for gods people as a nation in todays day. Israel had to separate themself from the '"world'" .. have nothing in common with people who worshipped Baal etc.
However when Jesus lived, he lived in a Roman province. He taught us to respect the law, because our kingdom is no longer of this world. Christians should be members of Gods Kingdom, and see God as the ultimate ruler.
Whatever time is left for earthly kingdom is temporary .. as Daniel propheticed to Nebuchanezar. It's all until God's Kingdom replaces them. Jesus prayed for this (mat 6) A good example for you to read is how the young jews refused to eat the Babylonian food, yet Daniel was able to cooperate with the king!! The point is to stand up for your belief, not cowardly, when an issue is pressed that you can not bring in agreement with your conscience. By being good citizens otherwise, we can gain support for our consciencious objections, and praise God's name because we follow Jesus' example.
What i'm saying is: the bible is consistent. God allows these Caesars in relative power.
My point was already made with Paul in my initial post. Yes he did what he did. But the point is his example is in the inspired word of God, as an example for Christians.
1 year ago
in the truth about Jehovah’s Witness, part 3 on BibleDude.net
i'm sorry about calling you a coward, idiot and hypocrite. i can't stand injustice, it's a family trait .. i get really edgy. you can cancel my comment if you like
1 year ago
in the truth about Jehovah’s Witness, part 3 on BibleDude.net
You are a coward, and a bad writer. The above example makes it scriptural, and words like "apparent", "aside from my beliefs", "i believe" don't really make a case.
Quote:
My first response to this is in regards to the apparent hypocrisy that this displays. And aside from my beliefs on government, I believe that this type of hypocrisy is anti-scriptural. A word study on the word hypocrite shows exactly how Jesus felt about this type of behavior.
In two lines, why you should bury your head under the ground.
Paul himself went to court in Rome.
Yet he did prison time for not obeying Rome when he obeyed God's law above all.
Now in your logic:
My first response to your statement in regards to the apparent hypocrisy that you display. And aside from my beliefs on scripture, I believe that your kind of hypocrisy is idiocy. A word study on the word idiocy shows exactly how God feels about this type of person.
Quote:
My first response to this is in regards to the apparent hypocrisy that this displays. And aside from my beliefs on government, I believe that this type of hypocrisy is anti-scriptural. A word study on the word hypocrite shows exactly how Jesus felt about this type of behavior.
In two lines, why you should bury your head under the ground.
Paul himself went to court in Rome.
Yet he did prison time for not obeying Rome when he obeyed God's law above all.
Now in your logic:
My first response to your statement in regards to the apparent hypocrisy that you display. And aside from my beliefs on scripture, I believe that your kind of hypocrisy is idiocy. A word study on the word idiocy shows exactly how God feels about this type of person.
