Disqus - Latest Comments for damozel_rejoins

Re: Minneapolis, we have a problem…

damozel_rejoins — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:05:37 -0000

What Kritt11 and JSpencer said.

Re: It’s All About the Arugula

damozel_rejoins — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:39:29 -0000

"Overreact"?

My "charge" is the intrinsic hilariousness of the "arugula" meme and the silliness of an argument that blatantly asks voters to decide that Obama is a "pointy-headed arugula eating professor" and McCain a down-to-earth man of the people.

I think the whole thing is ridiculous and insulting to the moderate McCain used to be. But also exceedingly funny.

I am no Obama fan---though I'm supporting him now. I certainly like him better than the McCain I've seen since he got the nomination. Maybe he was always this way and I just wasn't paying attention.

A year ago, I used to think McCain was a moderate Republican. I always liked him. I wish he were running a different sort of campaign. Which was actually the point of the arugula reference.

Re: A Turning Point in the Georgia Conflict? (A News & TMV Blog Post Round-Up)

damozel_rejoins — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:02:57 -0000

See my more recent post, where I listed incidents of atrocities against Georgians I found IN THE BRITISH PRESS (the guardian and bbc).

Re: A Turning Point in the Georgia Conflict? (A News & TMV Blog Post Round-Up)

damozel_rejoins — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:37:59 -0000

They were reporting one reporter's perception, Dave, from where he was sitting. They have more than one reporter in Georgia. Do you imagine that everyone's perspective on the ground is going to be the same?

There's not only one narrative here. The story will vary depending on who you talk to. It will all be a lot clearer in a week or two, but people who are in the midst are going to see things differently. I thought it was odd myself----yesterday a different BBC reporter, Luke Harding, reported looting, etc.

Re: More on Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit, Ethnic Cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia, & Related Issues

damozel_rejoins — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:07:47 -0000

Thanks for that, Joe, and for the quote.

Re: The Guardian: “The Idea that There is a Ceasefire is Ridiculous”

damozel_rejoins — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:01:21 -0000

CfPete.

Here's a suggestion. Dial back the judgmental tone. Who are you to decide that I shouldn't comment? There's always more than one perspective on an issue. And I am learning more every day.

I appreciate that you feel strongly about the Georgians and your comments have been very helpful.

I am doing the best I can to address what's happening. It's true I am looking at as many sources and opinions as I can, not just the ones who agree with you.

But when you called me out yesterday for being insufficiently sympathetic to Georgia, I listened to what you said and responded accordingly (in an earlier post.)

Blogging is discussion. I've not held myself out as an expert---quite the reverse. But I've delved into multiple sources and have organized information culled from them so that others can read and draw their own conclusions.

Yes, I've known about Russia's efforts undermining these regimes. Yes, I knew some of the history. But not as much as you. That is why I was grateful for your (first) comments.

I wrote (on Monday) that I have no trust in Russia or its motives. But that doesn't mean that I am prepared to say that between these groups---Georgia and its separatist enclaves----I know which has behaved worse over the last century and before. I don't. It looks as if there are victims and blame on all sides.

What concerns me is the same thing that always concerns me----cruelty to human beings. Looks to me as if there has been some of that on all sides as well.

If so, then I'm certainly not going to argue that because the Abkhazi behaved badly in the Nineties, it's fine for the Georgians to behave similarly now (if in fact they did).

I realize that the Russians have been doing their all to exacerbate the situation in the separatist regions and have intervened financially and militarily there now and in the past, and wrote to this effect in my very lengthy first post two or three days back.

But as APR says, sometimes victims ARE a little to blame i.e., when a kid pokes a hungry bear with a sharp stick.

Thank you, APR, by the way.

Re: Russians Continue Their Push Into Georgia

damozel_rejoins — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:49:21 -0000

Right.

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:15:33 -0000

Did I say there is no pattern? I am talking here about the issue of ethnic cleansing. NOBODY who does this is right.

Anyway, I posted something today that brings up your points (after looking into it further). After reading your comments, I decided---despite my comments that I don't trust the Russians---that I hadn't been sufficiently clear how much I think they are in the wrong and how much we need to recognize their role in fanning the hatred, etc., etc. . I wrote about the genocide in Abkhazia.

I would never defend them. But I also distrust rhetoric such as is coming out of DC which tries to paint these situations in black and white. Please reread my piece. I think I did make it clear that this is what was bothering me----oversimplifying a complex situation.

And then see my response to your comments etc. today. (Still feel the same about ethnic cleansing, regardless of who is doing it).

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:06:47 -0000

I can't. I've no idea. You might well be right.

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:09:22 -0000

That may be. I don't know who is in the right in South Ossetia. Probably both are at fault (which was my point)... It's a shame if so.

Re: Why I’m still a great big fan of Cass Sunstein

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:21:40 -0000

Setting aside your liking for Sunstein, with whom I do not agree on the specific issue....this is absolutely spot on:

When I say I want a more empathetic citizenry, a less punitive legal system, and more thoughtful governance, I’m looking for it across the board. My call for restorative justice — as opposed to our too punitive retributive justice — is not one reserved only for the poor criminal.

You are so very right.

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:14:11 -0000

DLS

*** SEPARATE ISSUE ***

"[I]s an unprovoked attack what REALLY happened here, or are we being sold a prepackaged and oversimplified version of the facts (as we were in Iraq)?"

This remains to be seen. We already "heard" the Georgian side in the New York Times today. (I read the newspaper today at lunchtime. Here it is on-line.)

Which was exactly my point. I don't know who is telling the truth, or if anyone is. I doubt that anyone at this point has all the facts. I am broadly skeptical about these events and wishes to call attention to these disturbing allegations.

As I said: I may live to retract my skepticism and embrace Georgia as a hapless victim. This remains to be seen.

LOVIATAR: Good summary of the straw man tactic.

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:44:40 -0000

DLS,

No---as you did on the piece on McCain's stance on reproductive rights---you reframed my argument to say something I didn't say, then critiqued the reframed argument.

It's a fine tactic for winning an argument---you get to set it out in your terms and then refute it---but is essentially nonresponsive to my question: Did Georgia engage in ethnic cleansing? And if so, do they have any moral high ground requiring us to see them as the victim?

Never mind Russia's aspirations. I agree that Putin is looking to extend his real estate holdings. The question is: is an unprovoked attack what REALLY happened here, or are we being sold a prepackaged and oversimplified version of the facts (as we were in Iraq)?

If Georgia was killing civilians in South Ossetia ---IF---then they probably needed to be stopped, wouldn't you say? And if it was targeting them by ethnicity, then isn't that genocide?

I don't hate Bush. Humanly speaking, I think he's funny. But as a president, he seems to misjudged a lot of facts and expended a huge amount of US resources while getting us very little in exchange. He's also repeatedly lied. I see no reason to trust him.

Just note that what you're doing is projecting your beliefs about the meaning of my opinions and then responding what you've projected. You tend to take my pieces as an opportunity to vent about what you BELIEVE is the underlying belief or principle. You also assume that a person who holds one belief MUST in consequence hold a whole set of related ones---and then you argue with those.

I don't feel "guilty" about a thing. Angry and disgusted, yes. But at one small band of pols, who can be voted out, not at my country. In a democracy, one's loyalty may be to the principles, not to a particular leader.

Re: Russia Backs Off; Georgia’s Ethnic Cleansing Lawsuit Against Russia; & Troubling Questions About Georgia’s Attack on the South Ossetians

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:23:12 -0000

Nonsense. If Georgia was engaging in ethnic cleansing (again), it needed a slap on the wrist. Who was going to administer it? Not Bush.

Don't call names. I'm no West-basher. I don't like Putin and I grew up participating in "bomb drills" in school (hiding under our desks from Russian bombs).

Re: ‘Opus’ of Truth

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:14:51 -0000

Excellent. I hadn't seen that one.

Re: What If Russia Had Invaded Fricking Denver?

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:21:44 -0000

You gotta love them counterfactuals.

Re: The Battle Between Hard Core Hillary Clinton Supporters And Obama

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:53:29 -0000

I know quite a few of the PUMAS.

No, they don't expect Hillary to be elected or to wrest control from obama supporters. But they have turned completely against Obama and will stop at nothing to prevent him from getting elected.

If he doesn't going to get elected, it will be because he didn't effectively reach out to these voters and in fact averred he didn't need them. He may be right---I hope so.

But there are a lot of them out there---perfectly sane, ordinary people in other respects---who will do anything they can to prevent him from being elected. And since they blame the Democratic party (Brazile, Dean, etc.) for the Florida and Michigan voting problem, they couldn't care less if they take the party down with them.

This will be incomprehensible to all Dems who share Obama's dsimssive attitude to that segment of the Democratic party. It wasn't elitism; it was pure and simple hubris.

Sadly for Obama, the more other Dems make fun of them or call them out, the angrier and less rational the discourse gets. They're as bitter toward Obama's supporters as much as they are towards him.

Re: Pro-Choice Voters Need to Take a Look at McCain’s Record

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:27:54 -0000

Well, DLS, I am anti-abortion but pro-choice. I believe abortion is wrong (certainly abortion of a viable fetus), but I am simply not as sure as you are that my opinion should be a law for everyone else, including atheists, people who don't want children, etc. etc.

As for the alleged cruelty, I am not sure it is more cruel for a fetus to be aborted than it is to bring a child into the world who isn't wanted by its parents. I have seen too many parents just walk away and leave the child to fend for itself. And once a human being is outside its mother's womb, most anti-choice advocates don't seem to be willing to build much of a safety net into the system to ensure the child has adequate food, care, health care, etc., etc. That's equally, or more, cruel according to me.

As for religious grounds for arguing for it---the sacredness of a human life etc. etc.---those beliefs are not shared by all people, and it is wrong to force them to comply with my beliefs.

So I do not want to do that. Those in that unfortunate situation must choose their own form of cruelty.

....BUT NONE OF THAT WAS MY POINT ANYWAY. It's an emotionally charged issue on which people hold strong views.

My point is that IF you are pro-choice then DO LOOK AT MCCAIN RECORD. He's not a good option for people who feel that this issue is important. As "fla lady" says, this is not a 'one-issue election.'

I didn't say that it was. I said: IF YOU DO CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, LOOK AT MCCAIN'S RECORD. I don't think Obama has this principle, or holds it strongly---his statements about late term abortions were inaccurate legally, but conceded that sometimes it MIGHT be necessary---so he is the better option for pro-choice voters.

And that's ALL I was saying. You can all fight about whether abortion is right, wrong, cruel, less cruel than the alternatives all you want, but that is NOT MY POINT.

Re: War in the Caucasus … Georgia ‘Doesn’t Stand a Chance’: Editorial from Le Figaro

damozel_rejoins — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:27:11 -0000

This framing of the events by Pierre Rousselin doesn't quite fit with the facts I've read in the British press. I wonder who is right.

It's very unclear what Russia is doing here. I don't doubt that they'd like to annex some of these little countries....but the fact is, the South Ossetians do NOT want to be part of Georgia and have declared their independence. They would like to unify with their ethnic kin in North Ossetia (which is in Russia).

Once the Georgian president launched a surprise attack (during a ceasefire) against the South Ossetian rebels, the Russians had a "peacekeeping" responsibility under the CIS agreement.

I am surprised that people are buying into the "Russia as oppressor" argument. Georgia is trying to force South Ossetia (which has had de facto independence since the nineties and voted for independence in a referendum) to reunify with it.

I don't know who is most in the wrong here, and I certainly can easily believe that Russia would LIKE to have an excuse to retrieve lost territory (and was helping to stir things up)....but that's NOT why this whole thing started.

These oversimplifications in the media are really worrying me. A complex situation requires a complex response.

Re: Pro-Choice Voters Need to Take a Look at McCain’s Record

damozel_rejoins — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:47:17 -0000

To be fair, the version of the piece that Kryon read contained an explanation of my pro-choice position. I decided afterward to delete it since it felt superfluous to my point and derailed the conversation to the merits of my pro-choice stance.

What I really wanted to get across is that McCain is antichoice.

Re: Pro-Choice Voters Need to Take a Look at McCain’s Record

damozel_rejoins — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:43:56 -0000

I am not going to argue the point with you, Kryon. I have explained my position. I am at peace with it. I don't need to justify it to you---and, in fact, the piece is directed toward people who do NOT share your views (as the title shows).

Though I'm certainly in favor of developing technology to make such procedures as painless as possible. Since "viability" of the fetus is the test, and technology makes that happen earlier, I'd even support outlawing it at an early stage.

But ban abortion? No. Who is going to feed those children, bring them up, see that they get health care, clothing, an education---if the mothers don't want them? How is that kinder?

Re: Georgia Declares War & Conflict Expands: A News Round-up (and Some Background)

damozel_rejoins — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:51:42 -0000

Well, Daveinboca, it seems that Cernig was correct about your response. I happen to think he takes a comparatively detached view of world affairs.

The fact is, it's hard to see where the merits here lie. Should we support the regime that is trying to force two small regions to submit to its rule? What about the history of civil war and ethnic cleansing? If they want to be part of Russia, should we argue that Georgia can force them to stay?

On the other hand...is it good that these two regions are so driven by the purist form of identity politics that they can't stomach being part of Georgia? If so, why?

I don't know the answers. But I doubt you do either. Sometimes the disputes go back so far into the past that its impossible to tell who is right or who is wrong.

Reading the people with some expertise in Russian affairs, they don't seem exactly certain either. I just don't know yet. I am not going to judge between the parties without knowing a lot more than I do and I don't think the presidential candidates should do so.

Re: Jon Stewart Unleashes on McCain

damozel_rejoins — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:05:10 -0000

'Damozel: "The fact is that we are governed by wealthy plutocrats. Obama's no better or worse than any of the others."

Damozel, I suspect you didn't quite mean that. '

You're right, Marlowecan. I meant that Obama is no more elitist or arrogant than the others. All of them have the perquisites of wealth and regular access to experiences (and consumer goods).

That one decides (W's dad) to make a big point of the fact that he spends his money eating pork rinds while another chooses to eat arugula doesn't cut any ice with me.

None of them are in any way like the average American in terms of their purchasing power. They are ALL the elite in that sense.

I therefore look ONLY at their policies.

Re: Jon Stewart Unleashes on McCain

damozel_rejoins — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:21:56 -0000

The smear is in the implication that Obama suffers from a new and special type of arrogance that makes him unlike 'real Americans,' whereas McCain is a humble, real guy. It worked for Bush, after all.

The fact is that we are governed by wealthy plutocrats. Obama's no better or worse than any of the others. This sort of class-based attack was used by his campaign against Hillary, and I didn't like it then.

I don't like it now, either. It needs to be called out whenever it crops up. I could argue that he 'deserves' it....but I find it insulting regardless of which side is using it.

Re: Monday Open Thread

Town — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:52:02 -0000

I got the intention of your blog, because it was so over the top. LOL