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joebrummer
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8 months ago
in http://nlsngrc.blogspot.com/2008/10/untitled.html on NGblog
NG writes: "As for Joe Brummer, there's no love love lost where's he concerned. He's a bitchy queen, a control freak and a monger who's actions resulted in making gay activist blogging ineffective."
Joe replies: I would be happy to talk to you about your feelings toward me. Feel free to call me or email me. I can tell you the last thing my friends would say about me is that I am a queen or bitchy. So let's set the record straight and talk!
-Joe
Joe replies: I would be happy to talk to you about your feelings toward me. Feel free to call me or email me. I can tell you the last thing my friends would say about me is that I am a queen or bitchy. So let's set the record straight and talk!
-Joe
1 reply
Nelson G.
Um, you broke the trust, Joe. It's you who should be trying to contact me.
9 months ago
in The Hulk Has A Bad Body Image and I Think He Sells Drugs on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
It is just a normal part of me. I believe that people just take for granted that they have understood each other. I also believe that often, it feels gratifying to know other people have heard and understood what you have said without judgment, evaluation, diagnosis or blame. Just to hear and understand. I am working at doing that more often in my life.
I wonder if they have a Planet Fitness near you. At PF, such behavior and "do rags" are not allowed. It is more of a regular gym as opposed to a body builders gym. I go everyday and I like the people there.
I wonder if they have a Planet Fitness near you. At PF, such behavior and "do rags" are not allowed. It is more of a regular gym as opposed to a body builders gym. I go everyday and I like the people there.
1 reply
Randy
We have all the chain gyms around here. This guy isn't the normal for my gym. There isn't a normal for my gym except that it is a definite neighborhood gym as opposed to a body building or professionals gym.
9 months ago
in The Hulk Has A Bad Body Image and I Think He Sells Drugs on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
Randy,
I am wondering if you are feeling uncomfortable because this man could be influencing younger men with his "supplements" and displays of strength because you value their safety from harmful stuff? I am also wondering if you are feeling concerned because you value people "valuing" themselves and it sounds like you might be scared for this man that he may not be displaying behavior that is healthy. When you talk about his bones snapping, it sounds like you may even be scared for his safety.
With that all said, I wonder if you find this to be a distraction to doing your own workout?
I am wondering if you are feeling uncomfortable because this man could be influencing younger men with his "supplements" and displays of strength because you value their safety from harmful stuff? I am also wondering if you are feeling concerned because you value people "valuing" themselves and it sounds like you might be scared for this man that he may not be displaying behavior that is healthy. When you talk about his bones snapping, it sounds like you may even be scared for his safety.
With that all said, I wonder if you find this to be a distraction to doing your own workout?
1 reply
Randy
1. Yes, I do value everyone's safety from any harmful stuff.
2. I do want people to have a healthy self esteem and be safe.
3. No, it isn't distracting. As far back as I can remember I have always been the room barometer and group dynamics kind of guy. That was shut down from expressing itself for the first part of my life but for several reasons I have always been the type to be hyper aware of my surroundings. It doesn't distract me at all. Plus, it isn't like I am always in the same part of the gym as he is and I don't really care to join the fan club that stands around while he lifts 9,000 lbs.
4. What is it with you and the reflective listening questions lately. I like this counselor type of thing you seem to be doing lately. But , it sounds like you are trying to do counseling or something. Is this a normal part of you that I just haven't seen or recognized before?
2. I do want people to have a healthy self esteem and be safe.
3. No, it isn't distracting. As far back as I can remember I have always been the room barometer and group dynamics kind of guy. That was shut down from expressing itself for the first part of my life but for several reasons I have always been the type to be hyper aware of my surroundings. It doesn't distract me at all. Plus, it isn't like I am always in the same part of the gym as he is and I don't really care to join the fan club that stands around while he lifts 9,000 lbs.
4. What is it with you and the reflective listening questions lately. I like this counselor type of thing you seem to be doing lately. But , it sounds like you are trying to do counseling or something. Is this a normal part of you that I just haven't seen or recognized before?
9 months ago
in On Chris Fabry Live Concerning Ray Boltz “Coming Out” on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
Thank you for clarifying that. I think I understand more clearly what you are saying. I do see many gays and lesbians that preface their identities with being gay. I suspect some of that is the drive for connection with others who identify with them. They hope by doing this that they will open up the chances of meeting others who are like them. If they say they are a gay [fill in blank] they may meet others who see the world as they do.
You do realize that Christians do the same thing you are stating about gay people. There are Christian Bloggers, Christian Artists, Christian Actors, Christian Doctors, etc...So I could throw the same thing back at ya, that most Christians I know (evangelical more so) also define themselves the same way you describe that gay people do.
My primary Identity is that I am human. I happen to be a former christian, a musician, a piano player, a photographer etc...I usually don't add the word gay to most of that anymore than I would add any other identity because I think it clouds what people see in me.
The French author Thomas d'Ansembourg has an interesting chapter in his book, Being Genuine devoted to labels. He explains how we have this tendency to stop at the label we come up with rather than see deeper into the person for who they are. He explains as we are walking down the street and we see an old women dressed raggedly, we stop at the label we have given her rather than seeing that she might not have done laundry yet. The same might be true of a young kid with spiked blue hair, we stop at the label of "punk" and never see the brother, son, artist, future math genius, etc... I really felt connected to that idea when I read it. Of course, his point when writing it is that we need to stop ourselves from "stopping" at just the label we give others or ourselves and go further to see the human. It is a return to humanity!
Just some random thoughts.
You do realize that Christians do the same thing you are stating about gay people. There are Christian Bloggers, Christian Artists, Christian Actors, Christian Doctors, etc...So I could throw the same thing back at ya, that most Christians I know (evangelical more so) also define themselves the same way you describe that gay people do.
My primary Identity is that I am human. I happen to be a former christian, a musician, a piano player, a photographer etc...I usually don't add the word gay to most of that anymore than I would add any other identity because I think it clouds what people see in me.
The French author Thomas d'Ansembourg has an interesting chapter in his book, Being Genuine devoted to labels. He explains how we have this tendency to stop at the label we come up with rather than see deeper into the person for who they are. He explains as we are walking down the street and we see an old women dressed raggedly, we stop at the label we have given her rather than seeing that she might not have done laundry yet. The same might be true of a young kid with spiked blue hair, we stop at the label of "punk" and never see the brother, son, artist, future math genius, etc... I really felt connected to that idea when I read it. Of course, his point when writing it is that we need to stop ourselves from "stopping" at just the label we give others or ourselves and go further to see the human. It is a return to humanity!
Just some random thoughts.
1 reply
Randy
Yes, after I published my comment I edited it to include ...
I agree with everything you wrote I have never used "gay identified" or "gay worldview" in a pejorative sense but others always assume it is. Christian identified doesn't flow as well but it would be parallel. Christian worldview is a given ... totally agree.
But, one of my secondary identification attributes is evangelical so ... come back to Jesus Joe.
::: smile :::
It's not just a gay thing though. You could put Christian in front of all those titles above and it would be the exact same point I am trying to make
I agree with everything you wrote I have never used "gay identified" or "gay worldview" in a pejorative sense but others always assume it is. Christian identified doesn't flow as well but it would be parallel. Christian worldview is a given ... totally agree.
But, one of my secondary identification attributes is evangelical so ... come back to Jesus Joe.
::: smile :::
9 months ago
in On Chris Fabry Live Concerning Ray Boltz “Coming Out” on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
Randy,
Are you under the impression that those of us who identify as gay or lesbian somehow define ourselves by our sexuality or that we determine our behaviors or even our goals in life? I am really unclear as to what you are saying here, not so much about yourself (but yes about you) but about what you are claiming about those who do identify in the ways you did 16 years ago. Would you be willing to clarify for me what exactly it is you mean by your words above in regards to those who are gay identified?
Are you under the impression that those of us who identify as gay or lesbian somehow define ourselves by our sexuality or that we determine our behaviors or even our goals in life? I am really unclear as to what you are saying here, not so much about yourself (but yes about you) but about what you are claiming about those who do identify in the ways you did 16 years ago. Would you be willing to clarify for me what exactly it is you mean by your words above in regards to those who are gay identified?
1 reply
Randy
Yes, if you say "I am gay" you are, in that statement, defining yourself by your sexual orientation. I also believe that being "gay" carries with it a lot of expectations and assumptions as to an appropriate value system and worldview. I don't see how that is confusing.
I believe that anyone's primary identity (in any manner) is indicative of their default worldview in which most things (not all) will emanate from. It's the Proverbial, "as a man thinks so he is" principle.
Example: I am a Christian. I am also a Supervisor, Uncle, Friend, Son and other things. All the different titles and positions have different goals and variables. Even so, spoken or not consciously recognized in every moment ... I want my primary identity to permeate all of the manifestations of my life. Most people who primarily embrace and identify as gay, that I knew or know, that is their primary life filter. They don't simply describe themselves as a Christian, they are a gay Christian, that goes to a gay church, or a gay artist, a gay writer, a gay Republican, a gay Buddhist, a gay activist, an openly gay politician, gay lawyer, gay doctor, gay actor, gay singer and it carries on into media and entertainment as well, you have gay blogs, gay newspapers, gay cable channels, gay radio shows ... on and on. If the primary identity wasn't "gay" there wouldn't be all these things specifically geared toward being gay and all of those things bring definition and common understanding OR they wouldn't be as successful as they are.
It's not just a gay thing though. You could put Christian in front of all those titles above and it would be the exact same point I am trying to make. I think God's creative desire was for us to have a primary identity that manifested in different giftings and attributes. I believe that primary identity was supposed to be based in Him but we (humanity) have decided to become our own sufficiency and lean upon our own deductive reasoning without ever really turning to the God who has His own mind and opinion. He cares about who we are and what we do with our lives.
We can't escape the need for something to bring the unique definition to our lives that only our personal identity can bring.
I believe that anyone's primary identity (in any manner) is indicative of their default worldview in which most things (not all) will emanate from. It's the Proverbial, "as a man thinks so he is" principle.
Example: I am a Christian. I am also a Supervisor, Uncle, Friend, Son and other things. All the different titles and positions have different goals and variables. Even so, spoken or not consciously recognized in every moment ... I want my primary identity to permeate all of the manifestations of my life. Most people who primarily embrace and identify as gay, that I knew or know, that is their primary life filter. They don't simply describe themselves as a Christian, they are a gay Christian, that goes to a gay church, or a gay artist, a gay writer, a gay Republican, a gay Buddhist, a gay activist, an openly gay politician, gay lawyer, gay doctor, gay actor, gay singer and it carries on into media and entertainment as well, you have gay blogs, gay newspapers, gay cable channels, gay radio shows ... on and on. If the primary identity wasn't "gay" there wouldn't be all these things specifically geared toward being gay and all of those things bring definition and common understanding OR they wouldn't be as successful as they are.
It's not just a gay thing though. You could put Christian in front of all those titles above and it would be the exact same point I am trying to make. I think God's creative desire was for us to have a primary identity that manifested in different giftings and attributes. I believe that primary identity was supposed to be based in Him but we (humanity) have decided to become our own sufficiency and lean upon our own deductive reasoning without ever really turning to the God who has His own mind and opinion. He cares about who we are and what we do with our lives.
We can't escape the need for something to bring the unique definition to our lives that only our personal identity can bring.
9 months ago
in On Chris Fabry Live Concerning Ray Boltz “Coming Out” on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
Randy,
If I get all this correctly, you are saying there exists a lens through which people who identify as gay see certain issues like the origins of homosexuality, the place of gender in society and how to define god. I also hear you saying that you believe that even those who do not identify as gay, but identify as supporters also have a certain ideology that might fit under the blanket of "gay worldview".
I also hear you feel surprised that many GLBT folks do want to identify with this or that is someway the appear "offended" when someone claims this worldview exists. Hopefully, I understand what this means for you.
Assuming that I understand correctly, I might say that many gays and lesbians may not be "offended" at the idea such a thing exists, but more afraid of what they are agreeing exists. I can't say that before this, I fully understood the intentions of those who used this term. I admit, like most, I assumed it to be a negative remark. I would suggest that many gay people deny it exists because they don't know what it is or what it means coming from people they assume to be judging them.
I think the reactions of gay people could be different if they knew what this "worldview" meant to you. Most of us learned what a worldview is in Philosophy class, but that is not the same as knowing how it applies to this. It is also not the same as knowing what it means to someone who they already assume is against them. (regardless if they are or are not).
I might also add that many gays and lesbians don't have a "community" so when the term is used, it doesn't fit them. I am one of those people who doesn't really associate myself with "the community". I don't go to pride festivals, I don't go to gay bars, I don't have many gay friends. So I too, roll my eyes when I hear statements that refer to the gay community. Unlike many other communities, gay people can be hidden without a community to cling to.
-Joe
If I get all this correctly, you are saying there exists a lens through which people who identify as gay see certain issues like the origins of homosexuality, the place of gender in society and how to define god. I also hear you saying that you believe that even those who do not identify as gay, but identify as supporters also have a certain ideology that might fit under the blanket of "gay worldview".
I also hear you feel surprised that many GLBT folks do want to identify with this or that is someway the appear "offended" when someone claims this worldview exists. Hopefully, I understand what this means for you.
Assuming that I understand correctly, I might say that many gays and lesbians may not be "offended" at the idea such a thing exists, but more afraid of what they are agreeing exists. I can't say that before this, I fully understood the intentions of those who used this term. I admit, like most, I assumed it to be a negative remark. I would suggest that many gay people deny it exists because they don't know what it is or what it means coming from people they assume to be judging them.
I think the reactions of gay people could be different if they knew what this "worldview" meant to you. Most of us learned what a worldview is in Philosophy class, but that is not the same as knowing how it applies to this. It is also not the same as knowing what it means to someone who they already assume is against them. (regardless if they are or are not).
I might also add that many gays and lesbians don't have a "community" so when the term is used, it doesn't fit them. I am one of those people who doesn't really associate myself with "the community". I don't go to pride festivals, I don't go to gay bars, I don't have many gay friends. So I too, roll my eyes when I hear statements that refer to the gay community. Unlike many other communities, gay people can be hidden without a community to cling to.
-Joe
1 reply
Randy
Thank you for the thoughtful response Joe. That makes sense. I really appreciate you taking the time to think it through and explain. It's really helpful.
9 months ago
in On Chris Fabry Live Concerning Ray Boltz “Coming Out” on ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected
Randy, (and others)
When I hear you use the term "gay worldview" I have to admit I am confused by what that term means for you. I would really value some clarity about that. I could guess as to what that means or what I think you mean by it, but I would rather have it defined from your perspective.
-Joe
When I hear you use the term "gay worldview" I have to admit I am confused by what that term means for you. I would really value some clarity about that. I could guess as to what that means or what I think you mean by it, but I would rather have it defined from your perspective.
-Joe
1 reply
Randy
I think you understand the word gay and the word worldview mean individually. With *any* community there is an ideology and worldview. It's just a generic use of descriptive words.
For an anchor in context for here though:
world·view (wûrld'vyōō') Pronunciation Key
n. ...
1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group.
"worldview." Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper, Historian. 16 Sep. 2008. Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldvie...>
I believe that identifying as gay has a default assumed set of beliefs on many things including how to view the same sex, opposite sex and in some cases who God is or isn't. I believe that co-identifying with others who are gay will also shape or influence what you view as social justice issues, public policy goals and how tolerance and acceptance is truly expressed.
For most I have met, and in my own past, I found that being "gay" is somehow attached to everything they do or believe. It becomes a life-filter in a way. While opinions run the range of issues within the gay community, there is still a default set of "worldview" issues that are inherent for most. Examples: "I'm born this way" "being gay is not a choice" "I should be able to marry my partner" and many others.
I don't mean it in a negative way, just a descriptive way.
It's odd to me that for many of those who have embraced their gay community don't want to admit that a general worldview exists at some level for that community. It exists for every other community and I wonder why some are so offended by someone acknowledging a gay worldview/ideology exists.
For an anchor in context for here though:
world·view (wûrld'vyōō') Pronunciation Key
n. ...
1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group.
"worldview." Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper, Historian. 16 Sep. 2008. Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldvie...>
I believe that identifying as gay has a default assumed set of beliefs on many things including how to view the same sex, opposite sex and in some cases who God is or isn't. I believe that co-identifying with others who are gay will also shape or influence what you view as social justice issues, public policy goals and how tolerance and acceptance is truly expressed.
For most I have met, and in my own past, I found that being "gay" is somehow attached to everything they do or believe. It becomes a life-filter in a way. While opinions run the range of issues within the gay community, there is still a default set of "worldview" issues that are inherent for most. Examples: "I'm born this way" "being gay is not a choice" "I should be able to marry my partner" and many others.
I don't mean it in a negative way, just a descriptive way.
It's odd to me that for many of those who have embraced their gay community don't want to admit that a general worldview exists at some level for that community. It exists for every other community and I wonder why some are so offended by someone acknowledging a gay worldview/ideology exists.
