http://disqus.com/people/cb2296f02e0d0ae059cee59b17461369/enTue, 12 Aug 2008 22:47:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_american_idiot_tour_fun_for_the_whole_family/#comment-1220254I can't go to these type of things with out getting totally worked up. However, I agree with you that Christianity, or rather, the Church, has lost it 'edge', as in, we aren't edgy, we don't impact society, and we don't set the course of culture. Instead, we get caught up in the flow of where society is going, usually down, and try to 'redeem' it or do damage control.<br><br>When I say "edgy", I don't mean artificially hip, slick, and cool. I mean if we really believed what we preached, really lived it, that would be edgy.DaveSun, 18 Sep 2005 21:41:31 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_634/#comment-5287670I can't go to these type of things with out getting totally worked up. However, I agree with you that Christianity, or rather, the Church, has lost it 'edge', as in, we aren't edgy, we don't impact society, and we don't set the course of culture. Instead, we get caught up in the flow of where society is going, usually down, and try to 'redeem' it or do damage control.<br><br>When I say "edgy", I don't mean artificially hip, slick, and cool. I mean if we really believed what we preached, really lived it, that would be edgy.DaveSun, 18 Sep 2005 21:41:31 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_634/#comment-5287676I can't go to these type of things with out getting totally worked up. However, I agree with you that Christianity, or rather, the Church, has lost it 'edge', as in, we aren't edgy, we don't impact society, and we don't set the course of culture. Instead, we get caught up in the flow of where society is going, usually down, and try to 'redeem' it or do damage control.<br></br><br>When I say "edgy", I don't mean artificially hip, slick, and cool. I mean if we really believed what we preached, really lived it, that would be edgy.</br>DaveSun, 18 Sep 2005 21:41:31 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/informing_communities/#comment-1286575I'm trying to think of any reforms that happened from with in the church system...hmm..Nope. Can't think of any. Seems to me that reforms generally happen when people decide to follow God with all their heart, and the 'back lash' causes change in the church. Or a new denomination. Or a cult.DaveWed, 28 Sep 2005 22:30:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_224/#comment-5287763I'm trying to think of any reforms that happened from with in the church system...hmm..Nope. Can't think of any. Seems to me that reforms generally happen when people decide to follow God with all their heart, and the 'back lash' causes change in the church. Or a new denomination. Or a cult.DaveWed, 28 Sep 2005 22:30:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_224/#comment-5287775I'm trying to think of any reforms that happened from with in the church system...hmm..Nope. Can't think of any. Seems to me that reforms generally happen when people decide to follow God with all their heart, and the 'back lash' causes change in the church. Or a new denomination. Or a cult.DaveWed, 28 Sep 2005 22:30:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/informing_communities/#comment-1286579When you say 'reformation', I assume that you are talking about Luther, for starters any way. Luther was in the church system to begin with, but he had to step out of the normal 'this is how we do it' in order to instigate change. Even changes like what happened in England, some for political reasons, some for spiritual reasons, happeend when people bucked the system. By the way, I'm not opposed to colleges and seminary and all that stuff, as I used to be. And I think that in todays religious climate, a lot of people know that something has to change. Granted, those people might not be part of the governing system at seminary, and they might not be board members of churches.<br><br>I also understand that college and seminary are expensive. But when you are dealing with a call that God has on your life, do you look at in the sense of what the payback is? As I 've looked at going to bible college and possibly Seminary, one of the things that I feel God has challenged me with is that I may never see a dime of that money back. Opps, I'm writing a book.DaveThu, 29 Sep 2005 08:29:14 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_224/#comment-5287768When you say 'reformation', I assume that you are talking about Luther, for starters any way. Luther was in the church system to begin with, but he had to step out of the normal 'this is how we do it' in order to instigate change. Even changes like what happened in England, some for political reasons, some for spiritual reasons, happeend when people bucked the system. By the way, I'm not opposed to colleges and seminary and all that stuff, as I used to be. And I think that in todays religious climate, a lot of people know that something has to change. Granted, those people might not be part of the governing system at seminary, and they might not be board members of churches.<br><br>I also understand that college and seminary are expensive. But when you are dealing with a call that God has on your life, do you look at in the sense of what the payback is? As I 've looked at going to bible college and possibly Seminary, one of the things that I feel God has challenged me with is that I may never see a dime of that money back. Opps, I'm writing a book.DaveThu, 29 Sep 2005 08:29:14 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_224/#comment-5287779When you say 'reformation', I assume that you are talking about Luther, for starters any way. Luther was in the church system to begin with, but he had to step out of the normal 'this is how we do it' in order to instigate change. Even changes like what happened in England, some for political reasons, some for spiritual reasons, happeend when people bucked the system. By the way, I'm not opposed to colleges and seminary and all that stuff, as I used to be. And I think that in todays religious climate, a lot of people know that something has to change. Granted, those people might not be part of the governing system at seminary, and they might not be board members of churches.<br></br><br>I also understand that college and seminary are expensive. But when you are dealing with a call that God has on your life, do you look at in the sense of what the payback is? As I 've looked at going to bible college and possibly Seminary, one of the things that I feel God has challenged me with is that I may never see a dime of that money back. Opps, I'm writing a book.</br>DaveThu, 29 Sep 2005 08:29:14 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/right_versus_left_one_neo_anabaptist8217s_perspective/#comment-1286618I believe in social justice in the sense that nobody, no group, color, sex or sect, should be oppressed by 'the system'. I don't believe that just because someone is poor they are oppressed. Looking at it from a<br>constitutional point of view, I think that is the intent behind "We have the right to pursue happiness." No one group of people, unless their pursuit of<br>happiness victimizes another group, should be prevented from pursing happiness. Note, it doesn't say we have the right to be happy, just to pursue it. So the government is there to keep the things that inhibit our<br>ability to pursue happiness in check.<br><br>One of the problems I have with the leftie view (religious and otherwise) of social justice is that they seek to make people happy. And they think everyone should pay for it. They aren't concerned with their development or spiritual well being, just that they are happy now. I say this because I married into a Methodist family who thinks high of volunteering at the soup kitchen around Christmas time but makes no mention of saving grace.<br><br>I guess my point is the governments responsibility is to watch over our freedom, and we as Christians have the right, and responsibility, to reach into our own pockets, take time out of our schedules, and bring about<br>change.DaveThu, 06 Oct 2005 08:49:32 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_386/#comment-5287827I believe in social justice in the sense that nobody, no group, color, sex or sect, should be oppressed by 'the system'. I don't believe that just because someone is poor they are oppressed. Looking at it from a<br>constitutional point of view, I think that is the intent behind "We have the right to pursue happiness." No one group of people, unless their pursuit of<br>happiness victimizes another group, should be prevented from pursing happiness. Note, it doesn't say we have the right to be happy, just to pursue it. So the government is there to keep the things that inhibit our<br>ability to pursue happiness in check.<br><br>One of the problems I have with the leftie view (religious and otherwise) of social justice is that they seek to make people happy. And they think everyone should pay for it. They aren't concerned with their development or spiritual well being, just that they are happy now. I say this because I married into a Methodist family who thinks high of volunteering at the soup kitchen around Christmas time but makes no mention of saving grace.<br><br>I guess my point is the governments responsibility is to watch over our freedom, and we as Christians have the right, and responsibility, to reach into our own pockets, take time out of our schedules, and bring about<br>change.DaveThu, 06 Oct 2005 08:49:32 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_386/#comment-5287848I believe in social justice in the sense that nobody, no group, color, sex or sect, should be oppressed by 'the system'. I don't believe that just because someone is poor they are oppressed. Looking at it from a<br>constitutional point of view, I think that is the intent behind "We have the right to pursue happiness." No one group of people, unless their pursuit of</br><br>happiness victimizes another group, should be prevented from pursing happiness. Note, it doesn't say we have the right to be happy, just to pursue it. So the government is there to keep the things that inhibit our</br><br>ability to pursue happiness in check.</br><br></br><br>One of the problems I have with the leftie view (religious and otherwise) of social justice is that they seek to make people happy. And they think everyone should pay for it. They aren't concerned with their development or spiritual well being, just that they are happy now. I say this because I married into a Methodist family who thinks high of volunteering at the soup kitchen around Christmas time but makes no mention of saving grace.</br><br></br><br>I guess my point is the governments responsibility is to watch over our freedom, and we as Christians have the right, and responsibility, to reach into our own pockets, take time out of our schedules, and bring about</br><br>change.</br>DaveThu, 06 Oct 2005 08:49:32 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/rebellion_from_within/#comment-1286631<blockquote>"It's ok, in this sense for people to start being "counter cultural" in this sense because they're showing the conservative church that they have a culture that isn't necessarily worth keeping in tact."</blockquote><blockquote><br><br>So blorge, are you for being counter-cultural just as an act of rebellion, or are you for being counter-cultural because God is leading you down a path of restoration?<br><br>Because if people are being counter-cultural just to be "in-your-face, man!", then all they are doing is helping harden the views (and hearts) of people who are part of the conservative church.</blockquote>DaveWed, 12 Oct 2005 16:25:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_043/#comment-5287861<blockquote>"It's ok, in this sense for people to start being "counter cultural" in this sense because they're showing the conservative church that they have a culture that isn't necessarily worth keeping in tact."</blockquote><blockquote><br><br>So blorge, are you for being counter-cultural just as an act of rebellion, or are you for being counter-cultural because God is leading you down a path of restoration?<br><br>Because if people are being counter-cultural just to be "in-your-face, man!", then all they are doing is helping harden the views (and hearts) of people who are part of the conservative church.</blockquote>DaveWed, 12 Oct 2005 16:25:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_043/#comment-5287883<blockquote>"It's ok, in this sense for people to start being "counter cultural" in this sense because they're showing the conservative church that they have a culture that isn't necessarily worth keeping in tact."</blockquote><blockquote><br></br><br>So blorge, are you for being counter-cultural just as an act of rebellion, or are you for being counter-cultural because God is leading you down a path of restoration?</br><br></br><br>Because if people are being counter-cultural just to be "in-your-face, man!", then all they are doing is helping harden the views (and hearts) of people who are part of the conservative church.</br></blockquote>DaveWed, 12 Oct 2005 16:25:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_571/#comment-5288382I have met a number of emerging types and read a lot of the writers that are defining the "emergent movement", and they are by far unapologetically leftist. While "post-modern" makes sense to me as in defining yourself based on your community rather than you as an individual, and seeing that your actions effect those around you, I have been turned off because of the politics. You say that many of them don't recognize "conservative" and "liberal", but my experience in reading, discussing, and surfing the web, is they know "Republican" and "Democrat", and Republicans are evil.<br></br><br>I would like to hear from conservative emergent types. I would like to have a conversation with someone about social justice with out it turning into a Wal Mart hating, Bush bashing, conservatives are stupid kind of arguement.</br>DaveWed, 15 Feb 2006 20:22:34 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/common_critiques_of_emergent_andor_the_emerging_church/#comment-1286901I have met a number of emerging types and read a lot of the writers that are defining the "emergent movement", and they are by far unapologetically leftist. While "post-modern" makes sense to me as in defining yourself based on your community rather than you as an individual, and seeing that your actions effect those around you, I have been turned off because of the politics. You say that many of them don't recognize "conservative" and "liberal", but my experience in reading, discussing, and surfing the web, is they know "Republican" and "Democrat", and Republicans are evil.<br><br>I would like to hear from conservative emergent types. I would like to have a conversation with someone about social justice with out it turning into a Wal Mart hating, Bush bashing, conservatives are stupid kind of arguement.DaveWed, 15 Feb 2006 21:22:34 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_571/#comment-5288364I have met a number of emerging types and read a lot of the writers that are defining the "emergent movement", and they are by far unapologetically leftist. While "post-modern" makes sense to me as in defining yourself based on your community rather than you as an individual, and seeing that your actions effect those around you, I have been turned off because of the politics. You say that many of them don't recognize "conservative" and "liberal", but my experience in reading, discussing, and surfing the web, is they know "Republican" and "Democrat", and Republicans are evil.<br><br>I would like to hear from conservative emergent types. I would like to have a conversation with someone about social justice with out it turning into a Wal Mart hating, Bush bashing, conservatives are stupid kind of arguement.DaveWed, 15 Feb 2006 21:22:34 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_571/#comment-5288386The old rebellion factor. I can work with that, having been there myself.<br></br><br>See, I was involved in a group 10-12 years ago that was 'on the edge', very reminisent (sorry, no spell check on comments) of what the "emergent" church today. Unfortunatly, they went down the path that fit the stereotype you discussed above. All of the leadership has left the church, and in some cases, left their wives and families. I still believe in what they (we) where trying to accomplish as far as the type of community they strove for, but am at a loss as to how to bring it about in the small suburban church I belong to.</br><br></br><br>Anyway, I see a lot of the same additudes and practices in a lot (not all) of the writers I read and people I keep up with.</br><br></br><br>You are the exception. Kudos to you.</br>DaveThu, 16 Feb 2006 15:16:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/common_critiques_of_emergent_andor_the_emerging_church/#comment-1286905The old rebellion factor. I can work with that, having been there myself.<br><br>See, I was involved in a group 10-12 years ago that was 'on the edge', very reminisent (sorry, no spell check on comments) of what the "emergent" church today. Unfortunatly, they went down the path that fit the stereotype you discussed above. All of the leadership has left the church, and in some cases, left their wives and families. I still believe in what they (we) where trying to accomplish as far as the type of community they strove for, but am at a loss as to how to bring it about in the small suburban church I belong to.<br><br>Anyway, I see a lot of the same additudes and practices in a lot (not all) of the writers I read and people I keep up with.<br><br>You are the exception. Kudos to you.DaveThu, 16 Feb 2006 16:16:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_571/#comment-5288369The old rebellion factor. I can work with that, having been there myself.<br><br>See, I was involved in a group 10-12 years ago that was 'on the edge', very reminisent (sorry, no spell check on comments) of what the "emergent" church today. Unfortunatly, they went down the path that fit the stereotype you discussed above. All of the leadership has left the church, and in some cases, left their wives and families. I still believe in what they (we) where trying to accomplish as far as the type of community they strove for, but am at a loss as to how to bring it about in the small suburban church I belong to.<br><br>Anyway, I see a lot of the same additudes and practices in a lot (not all) of the writers I read and people I keep up with.<br><br>You are the exception. Kudos to you.DaveThu, 16 Feb 2006 16:16:16 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_773/#comment-5288481How many people would it take to have the "largest WorldView Conference"? I get the feeling not many.DaveMon, 06 Mar 2006 16:36:03 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/can_you_believe_this/#comment-1287092How many people would it take to have the "largest WorldView Conference"? I get the feeling not many.DaveMon, 06 Mar 2006 17:36:03 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/come_on_ring_those_bells/#comment-1287247...and don't get me started on the stadium deal!DaveTue, 04 Apr 2006 17:10:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_961/#comment-5288580...and don't get me started on the stadium deal!DaveTue, 04 Apr 2006 17:10:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_961/#comment-5288601...and don't get me started on the stadium deal!DaveTue, 04 Apr 2006 17:10:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/i_really_dislike_typepad/#comment-1287524Powerblogs, Dude. P O W E R B L O G S<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.powerblogs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.powerblogs.com/</a>DaveThu, 18 May 2006 22:00:42 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_510/#comment-5288728Powerblogs, Dude. P O W E R B L O G S<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.powerblogs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.powerblogs.com/</a>DaveThu, 18 May 2006 22:00:42 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_510/#comment-5288733Powerblogs, Dude. P O W E R B L O G S<br></br><br></br><br></br><br><a href="http://www.powerblogs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.powerblogs.com/</a></br>DaveThu, 18 May 2006 22:00:42 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/thoughts_from_my_time_at_the_monastery/#comment-1287582Please expand on, "Civil disobedience is a spiritual discipline..."DaveTue, 11 Jul 2006 00:02:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_767/#comment-5288831Please expand on, "Civil disobedience is a spiritual discipline..."DaveTue, 11 Jul 2006 00:02:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_767/#comment-5288837Please expand on, "Civil disobedience is a spiritual discipline..."DaveTue, 11 Jul 2006 00:02:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/classic_jm_crisis_in_generica/#comment-1310361I haven't decided whether I'm concvicted or offended. Heck, I'll go with insulted:)<br><br>Good stuff Mark. Good stuff. I hope that we (Harvest) can begin to make an impact on the 'burbs.DaveFri, 21 Jul 2006 17:52:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_999/#comment-5294454I haven't decided whether I'm concvicted or offended. Heck, I'll go with insulted:)<br><br>Good stuff Mark. Good stuff. I hope that we (Harvest) can begin to make an impact on the 'burbs.DaveFri, 21 Jul 2006 17:52:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_999/#comment-5294510I haven't decided whether I'm concvicted or offended. Heck, I'll go with insulted:)<br></br><br>Good stuff Mark. Good stuff. I hope that we (Harvest) can begin to make an impact on the 'burbs.</br>DaveFri, 21 Jul 2006 17:52:07 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/8220c8217mon8221_said_in_the_voice_of_gob_from_arrested_development/#comment-1288379RAB: Where are we killing innocent people? Let me guess...Hmmm...Iraq! Let's see: Saddam murdered about a 100,000 a year, often brutally. Today, 30,000-40,000 (still too many) are dying at the hands of Syrian and Iranian (Arab on Arab) insurgents. But I guess it is better that Saddam slaughter his own people while oppressing them than people die trying to gain freedom. If only we had adverted or gaze and remained ignorant! When it comes to God's judgement, perhaps He will ask, "Why didn't you try to help them?"DaveTue, 01 Aug 2006 21:22:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_729/#comment-5288940RAB: Where are we killing innocent people? Let me guess...Hmmm...Iraq! Let's see: Saddam murdered about a 100,000 a year, often brutally. Today, 30,000-40,000 (still too many) are dying at the hands of Syrian and Iranian (Arab on Arab) insurgents. But I guess it is better that Saddam slaughter his own people while oppressing them than people die trying to gain freedom. If only we had adverted or gaze and remained ignorant! When it comes to God's judgement, perhaps He will ask, "Why didn't you try to help them?"DaveTue, 01 Aug 2006 21:22:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_729/#comment-5288948RAB: Where are we killing innocent people? Let me guess...Hmmm...Iraq! Let's see: Saddam murdered about a 100,000 a year, often brutally. Today, 30,000-40,000 (still too many) are dying at the hands of Syrian and Iranian (Arab on Arab) insurgents. But I guess it is better that Saddam slaughter his own people while oppressing them than people die trying to gain freedom. If only we had adverted or gaze and remained ignorant! When it comes to God's judgement, perhaps He will ask, "Why didn't you try to help them?"DaveTue, 01 Aug 2006 21:22:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/8220c8217mon8221_said_in_the_voice_of_gob_from_arrested_development/#comment-1288384Ya know, I have to apologize to RAB for being so knee-jerk on the Iraq/pacifism/peace thing. I deal with people who take that side of the issue for the wrong reasons daily and I, err, blew up. My humble apologies.<br><br>I really appreciate your statement, <i>"I believe Christ has called me to be in this world and to get my hands and clothes dirty while loving my neighbor as myself."</i> I will quote you some time soon, but not give you any credit!:)<br><br>Mark: We will probably never see eye to eye on the pacifism/political stuff, but still count you as one of my best friends. We need to schedule a "Town Hall" meeting soon.DaveThu, 03 Aug 2006 19:46:55 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_729/#comment-5288943Ya know, I have to apologize to RAB for being so knee-jerk on the Iraq/pacifism/peace thing. I deal with people who take that side of the issue for the wrong reasons daily and I, err, blew up. My humble apologies.<br><br>I really appreciate your statement, <i>"I believe Christ has called me to be in this world and to get my hands and clothes dirty while loving my neighbor as myself."</i> I will quote you some time soon, but not give you any credit!:)<br><br>Mark: We will probably never see eye to eye on the pacifism/political stuff, but still count you as one of my best friends. We need to schedule a "Town Hall" meeting soon.DaveThu, 03 Aug 2006 19:46:55 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_729/#comment-5288951Ya know, I have to apologize to RAB for being so knee-jerk on the Iraq/pacifism/peace thing. I deal with people who take that side of the issue for the wrong reasons daily and I, err, blew up. My humble apologies.<br></br><br>I really appreciate your statement, <i>"I believe Christ has called me to be in this world and to get my hands and clothes dirty while loving my neighbor as myself."</i> I will quote you some time soon, but not give you any credit!:)</br><br></br><br>Mark: We will probably never see eye to eye on the pacifism/political stuff, but still count you as one of my best friends. We need to schedule a "Town Hall" meeting soon.</br>DaveThu, 03 Aug 2006 19:46:55 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/i_got_tagged/#comment-1288865I answered your challenge <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1155657415.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a>DaveTue, 15 Aug 2006 12:06:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_576/#comment-5289001I answered your challenge <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1155657415.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a>DaveTue, 15 Aug 2006 12:06:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_576/#comment-5289002I answered your challenge <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1155657415.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a>DaveTue, 15 Aug 2006 12:06:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/do_you_need_a_34y34_chromosome_to_be_a_34pastor34_reflections_of_an_xy8230/#comment-1288867I've posted my rough draft <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1156531114.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a> I address some of the issues you raise.DaveFri, 25 Aug 2006 14:46:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_427/#comment-5289003I've posted my rough draft <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1156531114.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a> I address some of the issues you raise.DaveFri, 25 Aug 2006 14:46:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_427/#comment-5289013I've posted my rough draft <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1156531114.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.</a> I address some of the issues you raise.DaveFri, 25 Aug 2006 14:46:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/more_thoughts_on_women8217s_roles_in_the_church/#comment-1289089Mark,<br><br>Other than some point specific to Harvest, I have posted my final draft of <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1157034447.shtml" rel="nofollow">Women in Ministry.</a>DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 10:37:26 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_022/#comment-5289039Mark,<br><br>Other than some point specific to Harvest, I have posted my final draft of <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1157034447.shtml" rel="nofollow">Women in Ministry.</a>DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 10:37:26 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_022/#comment-5289045Mark,<br></br><br>Other than some point specific to Harvest, I have posted my final draft of <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1157034447.shtml" rel="nofollow">Women in Ministry.</a></br>DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 10:37:26 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/more_thoughts_on_women8217s_roles_in_the_church/#comment-1289095I feel like that's a loaded question. Besides, it's not a 'she' issue.DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 15:19:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_022/#comment-5289041I feel like that's a loaded question. Besides, it's not a 'she' issue.DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 15:19:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_022/#comment-5289047I feel like that's a loaded question. Besides, it's not a 'she' issue.DaveThu, 31 Aug 2006 15:19:44 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/a_fundamentalist_rebuke_of_entertaining_evangelism/#comment-1289363Whoa. This gal is just bitter. I got some flack from people like this over a post regarding the treatment of people who have left the Church. They just nit pick at every aspect of your beliefs, then make personal attacks.DaveSat, 09 Sep 2006 18:14:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_5765/#comment-5289070Whoa. This gal is just bitter. I got some flack from people like this over a post regarding the treatment of people who have left the Church. They just nit pick at every aspect of your beliefs, then make personal attacks.DaveSat, 09 Sep 2006 18:14:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_5765/#comment-5289081Whoa. This gal is just bitter. I got some flack from people like this over a post regarding the treatment of people who have left the Church. They just nit pick at every aspect of your beliefs, then make personal attacks.DaveSat, 09 Sep 2006 18:14:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_769/#comment-5289478Yes...How does a pacifist deal with a madman whose got his fingers on nuclear missle launch buttons? How do you deal with someone who believes it is their obligation, their religious duty, to destroy nations? Do we choose to love them more than their potential millions of victims?<br></br><br>Perhaps "to love them more" is the wrong way of stating it. Are the sacrifice of millions (believers and non) worth it?</br>DaveFri, 01 Dec 2006 22:39:15 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/god_is_a_warmonger_jesus_is_a_hippie/#comment-1290643Yes...How does a pacifist deal with a madman whose got his fingers on nuclear missle launch buttons? How do you deal with someone who believes it is their obligation, their religious duty, to destroy nations? Do we choose to love them more than their potential millions of victims?<br><br>Perhaps "to love them more" is the wrong way of stating it. Are the sacrifice of millions (believers and non) worth it?DaveFri, 01 Dec 2006 23:39:15 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_769/#comment-5289472Yes...How does a pacifist deal with a madman whose got his fingers on nuclear missle launch buttons? How do you deal with someone who believes it is their obligation, their religious duty, to destroy nations? Do we choose to love them more than their potential millions of victims?<br><br>Perhaps "to love them more" is the wrong way of stating it. Are the sacrifice of millions (believers and non) worth it?DaveFri, 01 Dec 2006 23:39:15 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_643/#comment-5289543Grab it and Stab it: That's what I live by. Actually, I don't mind the healing part of it. The material prosperity part drives me up the wall.<br></br><br>I wish (pray) I had the faith and unction to pull the cripple from the wheel chair, see new a new limb grow where one had been lost, and heal lepers. But what a curse to tell someone that the reason they are in the wheel chair is because they didn't have enough faith.</br><br></br><br>I have a friend who is paralyzed from the waist down, and he had to quite going to revival meetings because people where always yanking him out of his chair. Then they'd say something like, "you don't have enough faith", to which he'd reply, "You were the one praying: Your the one with out faith!"</br><br></br><br>But these poor people in the Phillipines: The only ones prospering are the unethical preachers who are laying down some heavy burdens.</br>DaveFri, 08 Dec 2006 22:13:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/pentecostals_united_by_prosperity/#comment-1290780Grab it and Stab it: That's what I live by. Actually, I don't mind the healing part of it. The material prosperity part drives me up the wall.<br><br>I wish (pray) I had the faith and unction to pull the cripple from the wheel chair, see new a new limb grow where one had been lost, and heal lepers. But what a curse to tell someone that the reason they are in the wheel chair is because they didn't have enough faith.<br><br>I have a friend who is paralyzed from the waist down, and he had to quite going to revival meetings because people where always yanking him out of his chair. Then they'd say something like, "you don't have enough faith", to which he'd reply, "You were the one praying: Your the one with out faith!"<br><br>But these poor people in the Phillipines: The only ones prospering are the unethical preachers who are laying down some heavy burdens.DaveFri, 08 Dec 2006 23:13:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_643/#comment-5289523Grab it and Stab it: That's what I live by. Actually, I don't mind the healing part of it. The material prosperity part drives me up the wall.<br><br>I wish (pray) I had the faith and unction to pull the cripple from the wheel chair, see new a new limb grow where one had been lost, and heal lepers. But what a curse to tell someone that the reason they are in the wheel chair is because they didn't have enough faith.<br><br>I have a friend who is paralyzed from the waist down, and he had to quite going to revival meetings because people where always yanking him out of his chair. Then they'd say something like, "you don't have enough faith", to which he'd reply, "You were the one praying: Your the one with out faith!"<br><br>But these poor people in the Phillipines: The only ones prospering are the unethical preachers who are laying down some heavy burdens.DaveFri, 08 Dec 2006 23:13:18 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289761Yes...the Oil/Gas Wars. Part of the evil plot by The Venusians, along with Bush and Haliburton conspiracy, to crank out deadly green house gasses to turn Earth into a destitute planet of methane and carbon dioxide. They have their squinty little alien eyes all over the mountian ranges where they plan to build resorts similar to the ones in Jamacia, which will naturally be under water because the polar ice caps are melting.<br></br><br>Remember those little paper hats you use to make in grade school? The ones that could also be used as a boat? You can to that with tin foil as well.</br>DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 06:49:48 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289762...<i>the</i> Bush and Haliburton conspiracy...<br>...You can <i>do</i> that with tin foil as well...</br>DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 07:05:39 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_conflict_in_somalia/#comment-1294505Yes...the Oil/Gas Wars. Part of the evil plot by The Venusians, along with Bush and Haliburton conspiracy, to crank out deadly green house gasses to turn Earth into a destitute planet of methane and carbon dioxide. They have their squinty little alien eyes all over the mountian ranges where they plan to build resorts similar to the ones in Jamacia, which will naturally be under water because the polar ice caps are melting.<br><br>Remember those little paper hats you use to make in grade school? The ones that could also be used as a boat? You can to that with tin foil as well.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 07:49:48 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289749Yes...the Oil/Gas Wars. Part of the evil plot by The Venusians, along with Bush and Haliburton conspiracy, to crank out deadly green house gasses to turn Earth into a destitute planet of methane and carbon dioxide. They have their squinty little alien eyes all over the mountian ranges where they plan to build resorts similar to the ones in Jamacia, which will naturally be under water because the polar ice caps are melting.<br><br>Remember those little paper hats you use to make in grade school? The ones that could also be used as a boat? You can to that with tin foil as well.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 07:49:48 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_conflict_in_somalia/#comment-1294507...<i>the</i> Bush and Haliburton conspiracy...<br>...You can <i>do</i> that with tin foil as well...DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 08:05:39 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289750...<i>the</i> Bush and Haliburton conspiracy...<br>...You can <i>do</i> that with tin foil as well...DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 08:05:39 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289764ugh. The guy (Van S) is talking about his concern for the people he feels called to reach out to, and you come out of left field with some crap about gas and oil wars. Somalia has none, and the lack of oil has often been sited as the reason the U.S. hasn't taken any human interest there. You come off sounding like a paranoid psychophrenic (Ooo! The big bad government is out to get me!) when you make the leap from humanitarian concern to political drama.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 17:09:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_conflict_in_somalia/#comment-1294512ugh. The guy (Van S) is talking about his concern for the people he feels called to reach out to, and you come out of left field with some crap about gas and oil wars. Somalia has none, and the lack of oil has often been sited as the reason the U.S. hasn't taken any human interest there. You come off sounding like a paranoid psychophrenic (Ooo! The big bad government is out to get me!) when you make the leap from humanitarian concern to political drama.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 18:09:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289752ugh. The guy (Van S) is talking about his concern for the people he feels called to reach out to, and you come out of left field with some crap about gas and oil wars. Somalia has none, and the lack of oil has often been sited as the reason the U.S. hasn't taken any human interest there. You come off sounding like a paranoid psychophrenic (Ooo! The big bad government is out to get me!) when you make the leap from humanitarian concern to political drama.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 18:09:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289767Richard Clarke? You quote one of the least credible resources availible, especially in dealing with problems in Africa. Ironically, Richard Clarke (the White House counter-terrorism chief who has accused Bush of ignoring the terrorist threat in 2001) chaired an inter-agency task force in 1994 that discussed peacekeeping in the National Security Council and played a central role in developing options for U.S. action and coordinating the response to the genocide in Rwanda. The response? Nothing! He ignored it! Bill Clinton actually almost apologized for the lack of action.<br></br><br>Clarke was also the White House coordinator for the whole failed Somailia operation (of Black Hawk Down fame). He partially to blame for the total break down over ther in the first place.</br><br></br><br>Don't pick sources that are determined to rewrite history to cover their back sides.</br><br></br><br>And, invoking Iraq further points out my being right about you being all paranoid.</br>DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 20:41:37 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_conflict_in_somalia/#comment-1294518Richard Clarke? You quote one of the least credible resources availible, especially in dealing with problems in Africa. Ironically, Richard Clarke (the White House counter-terrorism chief who has accused Bush of ignoring the terrorist threat in 2001) chaired an inter-agency task force in 1994 that discussed peacekeeping in the National Security Council and played a central role in developing options for U.S. action and coordinating the response to the genocide in Rwanda. The response? Nothing! He ignored it! Bill Clinton actually almost apologized for the lack of action.<br><br>Clarke was also the White House coordinator for the whole failed Somailia operation (of Black Hawk Down fame). He partially to blame for the total break down over ther in the first place.<br><br>Don't pick sources that are determined to rewrite history to cover their back sides.<br><br>And, invoking Iraq further points out my being right about you being all paranoid.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 21:41:37 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289754Richard Clarke? You quote one of the least credible resources availible, especially in dealing with problems in Africa. Ironically, Richard Clarke (the White House counter-terrorism chief who has accused Bush of ignoring the terrorist threat in 2001) chaired an inter-agency task force in 1994 that discussed peacekeeping in the National Security Council and played a central role in developing options for U.S. action and coordinating the response to the genocide in Rwanda. The response? Nothing! He ignored it! Bill Clinton actually almost apologized for the lack of action.<br><br>Clarke was also the White House coordinator for the whole failed Somailia operation (of Black Hawk Down fame). He partially to blame for the total break down over ther in the first place.<br><br>Don't pick sources that are determined to rewrite history to cover their back sides.<br><br>And, invoking Iraq further points out my being right about you being all paranoid.DaveSun, 31 Dec 2006 21:41:37 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289772Arrrggg...<br></br><br>If you (dlw) would have ended with <i>"we also need to pray for wisdom for our leaders"</i>, I would have agreed, but when you added the qualifier the our leaders publicly admit they are wrong...</br><br></br><br>You keep proving my previous point that you are a conspiracy geek, and quite possibly a paranoid psychophrenic.</br><br></br><br>I was doing to walk away. Leave it alone. But you, in the same comment, say that talking politics can be a guise for our selfishness, then in the very next sentence call for our leaders to publicly admit being wrong and accept the consequences?</br><br></br><br>Mixed messages, dude.</br>DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 19:52:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_7892/#comment-5289790Mark,<br>I read the comment you posted over at this guys blog and was struck by the observation that we tend to ignore the 1700 years of history and development before the, err...1700's.</br><br></br><br>Thanks for challenging me once again.</br>DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 19:57:02 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_conflict_in_somalia/#comment-1294529Arrrggg...<br><br>If you (dlw) would have ended with <i>"we also need to pray for wisdom for our leaders"</i>, I would have agreed, but when you added the qualifier the our leaders publicly admit they are wrong...<br><br>You keep proving my previous point that you are a conspiracy geek, and quite possibly a paranoid psychophrenic.<br><br>I was doing to walk away. Leave it alone. But you, in the same comment, say that talking politics can be a guise for our selfishness, then in the very next sentence call for our leaders to publicly admit being wrong and accept the consequences?<br><br>Mixed messages, dude.DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 20:52:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2578/#comment-5289758Arrrggg...<br><br>If you (dlw) would have ended with <i>"we also need to pray for wisdom for our leaders"</i>, I would have agreed, but when you added the qualifier the our leaders publicly admit they are wrong...<br><br>You keep proving my previous point that you are a conspiracy geek, and quite possibly a paranoid psychophrenic.<br><br>I was doing to walk away. Leave it alone. But you, in the same comment, say that talking politics can be a guise for our selfishness, then in the very next sentence call for our leaders to publicly admit being wrong and accept the consequences?<br><br>Mixed messages, dude.DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 20:52:51 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/i_couldn8217t_help_myself_responding_to_a_critic_of_the_emerging_church/#comment-1294547Mark,<br>I read the comment you posted over at this guys blog and was struck by the observation that we tend to ignore the 1700 years of history and development before the, err...1700's.<br><br>Thanks for challenging me once again.DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 20:57:02 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_7892/#comment-5289782Mark,<br>I read the comment you posted over at this guys blog and was struck by the observation that we tend to ignore the 1700 years of history and development before the, err...1700's.<br><br>Thanks for challenging me once again.DaveTue, 02 Jan 2007 20:57:02 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_anarchist_love_train/#comment-1299100Why don't you ask "Chef" Surly Dave. He might have some ideas. Also, he's familiar with the local sanitation laws. Of course, being an anarchist, you probably don't care about that. ;)DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 19:05:30 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_241/#comment-5290855Why don't you ask "Chef" Surly Dave. He might have some ideas. Also, he's familiar with the local sanitation laws. Of course, being an anarchist, you probably don't care about that. ;)DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 19:05:30 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_241/#comment-5290880Why don't you ask "Chef" Surly Dave. He might have some ideas. Also, he's familiar with the local sanitation laws. Of course, being an anarchist, you probably don't care about that. ;)DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 19:05:30 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_anarchist_love_train/#comment-1299105Minneapolis is very strict on their food prep and serving laws , however, there is "grace" (if a municipality is capable of such) for good Samaritans. Example: If you have a catered event, you can donate the left overs to a half way house with out worrying about the transportation laws. Of course, the food can't sit in your trunk for a couple days before you drop it off. It still has to be safe. A lot of entertainers have riders in their contracts that the left overs from the back stage parties are donated to charity.<br><br>However, Minneapolis is a communist strong hold, so they might give you a pass because your being charitable. At the same time, they love taxing people, so they'll struggle with not making you pony up.<br><br>Personally, I'd think about getting an old concessions trailer. Buy your food prepared at a certified kitchen, and then all you have to do is reheat. I can help you with the particulars, seeing that I've kind of dealt with this before. (Remember, I had a catering business). In fact, I'm surprised you didn't ask me about this before.<br><br>Buy the way, if you have the trailer, you can then do some fund raisers and such. I know that would involve handling money...<br><br>Just teasing.<br><br>Another thing would be to prepare the food fresh, right in front of people. Then it's sort of a portable BBQ. It depends on where you set up. Or, like that some guy out in Oregon I read about, he had a portable gas burner and prepared omelets for the homeless and carried his food stuffs in a couple of coolers.DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 21:03:56 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_241/#comment-5290859Minneapolis is very strict on their food prep and serving laws , however, there is "grace" (if a municipality is capable of such) for good Samaritans. Example: If you have a catered event, you can donate the left overs to a half way house with out worrying about the transportation laws. Of course, the food can't sit in your trunk for a couple days before you drop it off. It still has to be safe. A lot of entertainers have riders in their contracts that the left overs from the back stage parties are donated to charity.<br><br>However, Minneapolis is a communist strong hold, so they might give you a pass because your being charitable. At the same time, they love taxing people, so they'll struggle with not making you pony up.<br><br>Personally, I'd think about getting an old concessions trailer. Buy your food prepared at a certified kitchen, and then all you have to do is reheat. I can help you with the particulars, seeing that I've kind of dealt with this before. (Remember, I had a catering business). In fact, I'm surprised you didn't ask me about this before.<br><br>Buy the way, if you have the trailer, you can then do some fund raisers and such. I know that would involve handling money...<br><br>Just teasing.<br><br>Another thing would be to prepare the food fresh, right in front of people. Then it's sort of a portable BBQ. It depends on where you set up. Or, like that some guy out in Oregon I read about, he had a portable gas burner and prepared omelets for the homeless and carried his food stuffs in a couple of coolers.DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 21:03:56 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_241/#comment-5290882Minneapolis is very strict on their food prep and serving laws , however, there is "grace" (if a municipality is capable of such) for good Samaritans. Example: If you have a catered event, you can donate the left overs to a half way house with out worrying about the transportation laws. Of course, the food can't sit in your trunk for a couple days before you drop it off. It still has to be safe. A lot of entertainers have riders in their contracts that the left overs from the back stage parties are donated to charity.<br></br><br>However, Minneapolis is a communist strong hold, so they might give you a pass because your being charitable. At the same time, they love taxing people, so they'll struggle with not making you pony up.</br><br></br><br>Personally, I'd think about getting an old concessions trailer. Buy your food prepared at a certified kitchen, and then all you have to do is reheat. I can help you with the particulars, seeing that I've kind of dealt with this before. (Remember, I had a catering business). In fact, I'm surprised you didn't ask me about this before.</br><br></br><br>Buy the way, if you have the trailer, you can then do some fund raisers and such. I know that would involve handling money...</br><br></br><br>Just teasing.</br><br></br><br>Another thing would be to prepare the food fresh, right in front of people. Then it's sort of a portable BBQ. It depends on where you set up. Or, like that some guy out in Oregon I read about, he had a portable gas burner and prepared omelets for the homeless and carried his food stuffs in a couple of coolers.</br>DaveThu, 29 Mar 2007 21:03:56 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/fair_trade_wednesday_the_phone_call/#comment-1305929Cool. I look forward to following along, maybe even ordering something.DaveThu, 07 Jun 2007 18:49:21 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_341/#comment-5291738Cool. I look forward to following along, maybe even ordering something.DaveThu, 07 Jun 2007 18:49:21 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_341/#comment-5291742Cool. I look forward to following along, maybe even ordering something.DaveThu, 07 Jun 2007 18:49:21 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_dark_side_of_google/#comment-1306048They expect others to "do no evil". They can do what ever they want, like turning in dissident bloggers to the communist government of China so they (Google) don't get banned from the Chinese internet system.DaveSat, 23 Jun 2007 12:21:09 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_741/#comment-5291751They expect others to "do no evil". They can do what ever they want, like turning in dissident bloggers to the communist government of China so they (Google) don't get banned from the Chinese internet system.DaveSat, 23 Jun 2007 12:21:09 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_741/#comment-5291754They expect others to "do no evil". They can do what ever they want, like turning in dissident bloggers to the communist government of China so they (Google) don't get banned from the Chinese internet system.DaveSat, 23 Jun 2007 12:21:09 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/towards_a_more_loving_resistance8230/#comment-1307472I started to comment, and <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1189863944.shtml" rel="nofollow">it turned into a post</a> over at my own blog.DaveSat, 15 Sep 2007 09:49:08 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_33882/#comment-5292486I started to comment, and <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1189863944.shtml" rel="nofollow">it turned into a post</a> over at my own blog.DaveSat, 15 Sep 2007 09:49:08 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_33882/#comment-5292491I started to comment, and <a href="http://ssb.powerblogs.com/posts/1189863944.shtml" rel="nofollow">it turned into a post</a> over at my own blog.DaveSat, 15 Sep 2007 09:49:08 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_acerbic_wit_of_mark_twain/#comment-1308062<blockquote>The Bible is clear here: I am to love my neighbor as myself, in the manner needed, in a practical way, in the midst of the fallen world, at my particular point of history. This is why I am not a pacifist. Pacifism in this poor world in which we live - this lost world - means that we desert the people who need our greatest help.</blockquote><br>- Francis SchaefferDaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 16:46:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292805<blockquote>The Bible is clear here: I am to love my neighbor as myself, in the manner needed, in a practical way, in the midst of the fallen world, at my particular point of history. This is why I am not a pacifist. Pacifism in this poor world in which we live - this lost world - means that we desert the people who need our greatest help.</blockquote><br>- Francis SchaefferDaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 16:46:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292827<blockquote>The Bible is clear here: I am to love my neighbor as myself, in the manner needed, in a practical way, in the midst of the fallen world, at my particular point of history. This is why I am not a pacifist. Pacifism in this poor world in which we live - this lost world - means that we desert the people who need our greatest help.</blockquote><br>- Francis Schaeffer</br>DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 16:46:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_acerbic_wit_of_mark_twain/#comment-1308071If your neighbor doesn't now Jesus, and was being brutally raped, I'm sure they would see the love of Christ in your inaction.<br><br>There is this aspect of 'laying down your life' that I think is missed here. I don't think Jesus meant for us just to get our heads knocked when we see the poor, helpless, oppressed being taken advantage of, raped, mutilated...DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 19:05:52 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292810If your neighbor doesn't now Jesus, and was being brutally raped, I'm sure they would see the love of Christ in your inaction.<br><br>There is this aspect of 'laying down your life' that I think is missed here. I don't think Jesus meant for us just to get our heads knocked when we see the poor, helpless, oppressed being taken advantage of, raped, mutilated...DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 19:05:52 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292830If your neighbor doesn't now Jesus, and was being brutally raped, I'm sure they would see the love of Christ in your inaction.<br></br><br>There is this aspect of 'laying down your life' that I think is missed here. I don't think Jesus meant for us just to get our heads knocked when we see the poor, helpless, oppressed being taken advantage of, raped, mutilated...</br>DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 19:05:52 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_acerbic_wit_of_mark_twain/#comment-1308076Because you didn't introduce the concept of 'appropriate force' in the original treatise, you baited me! If you know that this is where the conversation ends up, then maybe you should have brought it up before.DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 20:12:47 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292812Because you didn't introduce the concept of 'appropriate force' in the original treatise, you baited me! If you know that this is where the conversation ends up, then maybe you should have brought it up before.DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 20:12:47 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292832Because you didn't introduce the concept of 'appropriate force' in the original treatise, you baited me! If you know that this is where the conversation ends up, then maybe you should have brought it up before.DaveThu, 04 Oct 2007 20:12:47 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_acerbic_wit_of_mark_twain/#comment-1308083Just a quick note: I shouldn't post on controversial topics when I'm running a high temp:). I'm not really a dumb hick just blindly pulling out the 'raped neighbor' card. If I had taken time to think, I wouldn't have done that. Err...Sorry. I didn't mean to degrade a great thread.<br><br>I do stand with the comment that there is an aspect of laying down our lives that is missed. I think sometimes we have may actually have to place ourselves in harms way to show the love of Christ.<br><br>There will always be stories of how the use of force went wrong, but we also need to pay attention to were it worked. In our fallen world, things just don't always work out the way they were hoped to.DaveFri, 05 Oct 2007 08:03:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292815Just a quick note: I shouldn't post on controversial topics when I'm running a high temp:). I'm not really a dumb hick just blindly pulling out the 'raped neighbor' card. If I had taken time to think, I wouldn't have done that. Err...Sorry. I didn't mean to degrade a great thread.<br><br>I do stand with the comment that there is an aspect of laying down our lives that is missed. I think sometimes we have may actually have to place ourselves in harms way to show the love of Christ.<br><br>There will always be stories of how the use of force went wrong, but we also need to pay attention to were it worked. In our fallen world, things just don't always work out the way they were hoped to.DaveFri, 05 Oct 2007 08:03:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_866/#comment-5292835Just a quick note: I shouldn't post on controversial topics when I'm running a high temp:). I'm not really a dumb hick just blindly pulling out the 'raped neighbor' card. If I had taken time to think, I wouldn't have done that. Err...Sorry. I didn't mean to degrade a great thread.<br></br><br>I do stand with the comment that there is an aspect of laying down our lives that is missed. I think sometimes we have may actually have to place ourselves in harms way to show the love of Christ.</br><br></br><br>There will always be stories of how the use of force went wrong, but we also need to pay attention to were it worked. In our fallen world, things just don't always work out the way they were hoped to.</br>DaveFri, 05 Oct 2007 08:03:58 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2969/#comment-5293294I think we get in trouble when we look to the government to fix problems of the heart. The folks who attend those churches, along with their pastors, don't need a government fix: They need a change of heart. The same goes for big business. The executives don't need more taxation, they need Jesus.<br></br><br>All that would happen if the government went after them is that a bunch of lawyers would get rich. Granted, that's kind of spreading the wealth:).</br>DaveWed, 14 Nov 2007 18:07:23 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/is_prosperity_a_blessing_from_god_or_a_crime/#comment-1309515I think we get in trouble when we look to the government to fix problems of the heart. The folks who attend those churches, along with their pastors, don't need a government fix: They need a change of heart. The same goes for big business. The executives don't need more taxation, they need Jesus.<br><br>All that would happen if the government went after them is that a bunch of lawyers would get rich. Granted, that's kind of spreading the wealth:).DaveWed, 14 Nov 2007 19:07:23 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_2969/#comment-5293283I think we get in trouble when we look to the government to fix problems of the heart. The folks who attend those churches, along with their pastors, don't need a government fix: They need a change of heart. The same goes for big business. The executives don't need more taxation, they need Jesus.<br><br>All that would happen if the government went after them is that a bunch of lawyers would get rich. Granted, that's kind of spreading the wealth:).DaveWed, 14 Nov 2007 19:07:23 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/the_jesus_manifesto_raquo_maintenance_mode_79457/#comment-5297625I think the whole idea of 'race' is racism. I prefer to judge, and be judged, on character. The mere discussion of 'oppression' and 'repentance' does nothing to forward anybody. All it does is allow people to remain victims. As long as people are making an issue of it, it's going to be a problem. Recently we've seen examples in the media of churches that preach adherence to race rather that Christ. Whether it's White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, what ever, the Supremacy of Christ and Christian character should be first and foremost. Perhaps I'm naive? I just really get irritated by folks who think we owe something to somebody because of what somebody did hundreds of years ago, and more angry at those who think they are owed something. Today is the day we live in, with one eye on the future.DaveWed, 26 Mar 2008 18:37:03 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/a_mountain_of_bones_being_white_in_usamerica/#comment-268220I think the whole idea of 'race' is racism. I prefer to judge, and be judged, on character. The mere discussion of 'oppression' and 'repentance' does nothing to forward anybody. All it does is allow people to remain victims. As long as people are making an issue of it, it's going to be a problem. Recently we've seen examples in the media of churches that preach adherence to race rather that Christ. Whether it's White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, what ever, the Supremacy of Christ and Christian character should be first and foremost. Perhaps I'm naive? I just really get irritated by folks who think we owe something to somebody because of what somebody did hundreds of years ago, and more angry at those who think they are owed something. Today is the day we live in, with one eye on the future.DaveWed, 26 Mar 2008 18:37:03 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/go_as_poor_among_the_poor8230/#comment-5299434Excellent Post! Thanks for verbalizing some of my concerns.DaveTue, 12 Aug 2008 22:47:49 -0000http://jesusmanifesto.disqus.com/go_as_poor_among_the_poor8230_20/#comment-1186737Excellent Post! Thanks for verbalizing some of my concerns.DaveTue, 12 Aug 2008 22:47:49 -0000