DISQUS

Gosh, Mark. This is the best post I've read on any blog in a while.

Gosh, Mark. This is the best post I've read on any blog in a while.

Gosh, Mark. This is the best post I've read on any blog in a while.

Wow, Mark. I heard about this from Joel's e-mail, and I came here to get more details.

I'm really sorry, and I'm praying for you.

Wow, Mark. I heard about this from Joel's e-mail, and I came here to get more details.


I'm really sorry, and I'm praying for you.

Wow, Mark. I heard about this from Joel's e-mail, and I came here to get more details.

I'm really sorry, and I'm praying for you.

Wow - very cool, Mark! Professor VanS has a nice ring to it.

Wow - very cool, Mark! Professor VanS has a nice ring to it.

Wow - very cool, Mark! Professor VanS has a nice ring to it.

Wow - you already have a name for it! Sounds like a fun idea. Gotta have high speed internet access - I suppose that goes without saying nowadays.

Wow - you already have a name for it! Sounds like a fun idea. Gotta have high speed internet access - I suppose that goes without saying nowadays.

Wow - you already have a name for it! Sounds like a fun idea. Gotta have high speed internet access - I suppose that goes without saying nowadays.

You talk about 8-tracks as though they aren't new technology...I still remember when we got our first one.

Man...

You talk about 8-tracks as though they aren't new technology...I still remember when we got our first one.

Man...

You talk about 8-tracks as though they aren't new technology...I still remember when we got our first one.


Man...

Well, the people who live in the neighborhood are the ones who are most likely to make connections - so if anything we just encourage them to get to know their neighbors. Our block club is probably going to be a great way to help that happen. We just had our first meeting on Wednesday, so it's a little early to tell, but I think it will be effective.


Basically, working side by side on issues that we all share is a great way to build connections. So, for example, one of the new guys from the neighborhood that I met at the "block club planning meeting" is already signed up to help us organize a block party for his street. He has a desire to improve his community, so even though he may not share the beliefs of our church, he is happy to work along-side us. That sort of thing is really good, and I hope to see more of it as the block club expands.



Of course - getting involved in groups that are already up and running is another great way. My advice is to choose those thigs that motivate you, and in which you can have an impact, and help out!



As far as integrity goes, graham, I don't see that the two scenarios you mentioned have to lack it. A church is more than its outreach, and people can have a lot of good reasons to belong to a church outside of their neighborhood. I think the problem comes in when the leadership of the church starts to feel that they have to move off their mission, or mute it, in order to please the people who may not share it. Then there's a problem.



But for us, many of our most involved volunteers live outside the neighborhood, so they are serving the mission with integrity without actually moving in.

Well, the people who live in the neighborhood are the ones who are most likely to make connections - so if anything we just encourage them to get to know their neighbors. Our block club is probably going to be a great way to help that happen. We just had our first meeting on Wednesday, so it's a little early to tell, but I think it will be effective.

Basically, working side by side on issues that we all share is a great way to build connections. So, for example, one of the new guys from the neighborhood that I met at the "block club planning meeting" is already signed up to help us organize a block party for his street. He has a desire to improve his community, so even though he may not share the beliefs of our church, he is happy to work along-side us. That sort of thing is really good, and I hope to see more of it as the block club expands.

Of course - getting involved in groups that are already up and running is another great way. My advice is to choose those thigs that motivate you, and in which you can have an impact, and help out!

As far as integrity goes, graham, I don't see that the two scenarios you mentioned have to lack it. A church is more than its outreach, and people can have a lot of good reasons to belong to a church outside of their neighborhood. I think the problem comes in when the leadership of the church starts to feel that they have to move off their mission, or mute it, in order to please the people who may not share it. Then there's a problem.

But for us, many of our most involved volunteers live outside the neighborhood, so they are serving the mission with integrity without actually moving in.

Well, the people who live in the neighborhood are the ones who are most likely to make connections - so if anything we just encourage them to get to know their neighbors. Our block club is probably going to be a great way to help that happen. We just had our first meeting on Wednesday, so it's a little early to tell, but I think it will be effective.

Basically, working side by side on issues that we all share is a great way to build connections. So, for example, one of the new guys from the neighborhood that I met at the "block club planning meeting" is already signed up to help us organize a block party for his street. He has a desire to improve his community, so even though he may not share the beliefs of our church, he is happy to work along-side us. That sort of thing is really good, and I hope to see more of it as the block club expands.

Of course - getting involved in groups that are already up and running is another great way. My advice is to choose those thigs that motivate you, and in which you can have an impact, and help out!

As far as integrity goes, graham, I don't see that the two scenarios you mentioned have to lack it. A church is more than its outreach, and people can have a lot of good reasons to belong to a church outside of their neighborhood. I think the problem comes in when the leadership of the church starts to feel that they have to move off their mission, or mute it, in order to please the people who may not share it. Then there's a problem.

But for us, many of our most involved volunteers live outside the neighborhood, so they are serving the mission with integrity without actually moving in.

It's a tension I live in all the time. I talk incessantly about the neighborhood, but I used to feel bad doing so, given that a majority of our people didn't live in the neighborhood.


Now I don't feel bad about it. I think I've managed to communicate the concept that Frogtown is our "outreach focus," but that we need people from all over to make this successful. When people choose to move into the neighborhood we celebrate it - I talk a lot about what a great thing it is that we now have 16 households within walking distance of the church - but I try to do it in a way that doesn't exclude those outside the neighborhood.



Realistically, my focus on the neighborhood may limit our growth in attracting the "already-churched" who are looking for a place to worship but don't live in Frogtown. Unless they have a heart for the city, they may not appreciate a fair amount of the things we do as a church (Wednesday kids' program, tutoring, block club,considering ESL classes, etc.). By focusing so much of our efforts on the neighborhood we give up our ability to be a cool, "full-service" church with lots of programs for the church-shopper.



But then, that's not our gig. We rejoice when a new person from the neighborhood starts attending, especially an unchurched person. It's a slow process, though...



So in sum - I guess if you're really going to focus on the neighborhoood, it's going to mean some trade-offs. You can't do everything, and you'll be choosing to focus efforts on some people who may not be as naturally inclined to join your group, at the expense of focusing on the people you might jive with naturally.



Just have to decide if that's what God is calling you to. In our case it seems to be...

It's a tension I live in all the time. I talk incessantly about the neighborhood, but I used to feel bad doing so, given that a majority of our people didn't live in the neighborhood.

Now I don't feel bad about it. I think I've managed to communicate the concept that Frogtown is our "outreach focus," but that we need people from all over to make this successful. When people choose to move into the neighborhood we celebrate it - I talk a lot about what a great thing it is that we now have 16 households within walking distance of the church - but I try to do it in a way that doesn't exclude those outside the neighborhood.

Realistically, my focus on the neighborhood may limit our growth in attracting the "already-churched" who are looking for a place to worship but don't live in Frogtown. Unless they have a heart for the city, they may not appreciate a fair amount of the things we do as a church (Wednesday kids' program, tutoring, block club,considering ESL classes, etc.). By focusing so much of our efforts on the neighborhood we give up our ability to be a cool, "full-service" church with lots of programs for the church-shopper.

But then, that's not our gig. We rejoice when a new person from the neighborhood starts attending, especially an unchurched person. It's a slow process, though...

So in sum - I guess if you're really going to focus on the neighborhoood, it's going to mean some trade-offs. You can't do everything, and you'll be choosing to focus efforts on some people who may not be as naturally inclined to join your group, at the expense of focusing on the people you might jive with naturally.

Just have to decide if that's what God is calling you to. In our case it seems to be...

It's a tension I live in all the time. I talk incessantly about the neighborhood, but I used to feel bad doing so, given that a majority of our people didn't live in the neighborhood.

Now I don't feel bad about it. I think I've managed to communicate the concept that Frogtown is our "outreach focus," but that we need people from all over to make this successful. When people choose to move into the neighborhood we celebrate it - I talk a lot about what a great thing it is that we now have 16 households within walking distance of the church - but I try to do it in a way that doesn't exclude those outside the neighborhood.

Realistically, my focus on the neighborhood may limit our growth in attracting the "already-churched" who are looking for a place to worship but don't live in Frogtown. Unless they have a heart for the city, they may not appreciate a fair amount of the things we do as a church (Wednesday kids' program, tutoring, block club,considering ESL classes, etc.). By focusing so much of our efforts on the neighborhood we give up our ability to be a cool, "full-service" church with lots of programs for the church-shopper.

But then, that's not our gig. We rejoice when a new person from the neighborhood starts attending, especially an unchurched person. It's a slow process, though...

So in sum - I guess if you're really going to focus on the neighborhoood, it's going to mean some trade-offs. You can't do everything, and you'll be choosing to focus efforts on some people who may not be as naturally inclined to join your group, at the expense of focusing on the people you might jive with naturally.

Just have to decide if that's what God is calling you to. In our case it seems to be...

You should ask your uncle about it. I'm the "new guy," so I'm sort of out of the loop still. I was sure excited when they asked me to join them, though.

Come to think of it, I remember meeting one of your aunts. I think she took my "Amos" class, if I'm not mistaken.

You should ask your uncle about it. I'm the "new guy," so I'm sort of out of the loop still. I was sure excited when they asked me to join them, though.

Come to think of it, I remember meeting one of your aunts. I think she took my "Amos" class, if I'm not mistaken.

You should ask your uncle about it. I'm the "new guy," so I'm sort of out of the loop still. I was sure excited when they asked me to join them, though.


Come to think of it, I remember meeting one of your aunts. I think she took my "Amos" class, if I'm not mistaken.

I forgot you asked me about this earlier, Mark. At St. Paul Fellowship we were invited to participate in a Sunday night "Leading Edge Discipleship Training School" that was started by Bethel Christian Fellowship and Christ Community Church in St. Paul. Bethel is a "large church" by my standards (300?) but not SO large. By combining our resources, we are able to offer a lot of great classes to our members (classes we could never pull together on our own).

We have a three-year "Discipleship Track" and a three year "Leadership Track." Not accredited or anything, but good solid biblical education.

Lots of Bible classes, classes on spirituality, and electives. I'm teaching on Tolkien in the fall and Esther/Ruth in the winter, then one of our guys is teaching on "The Theology of Great Hymns" in the spring. By putting together those three classes, we get to offer our people a choice of six classes per quarter.

I guess the point is that partnerships can be a great thing. I know these guys real well, though, and we've talked through our differing theological emphases carefully. We all have a "major on the majors" approach to differences, or this would never work.