DISQUS

John,

I would say this is what refreshes and builds souls:::>

Act 20:29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
Act 20:30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears.
Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Act 20:33 I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel.
Act 20:34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me.
Act 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

When "True" men of God rise up and take care of the flocks in Detroit, equipping the True Believers such, instead of bleeding them dry of all the good things God has blessed them with, those young foolish thoughts in those young, hungry for vision, purpose, a sense of it all, will be caught up with Jesus Christ and have no need to do so on devil's night in Detroit!

If that does not happen, you can count on these young rebels acting like their father the devil and never want to turn to Christ and receive Hope, Living Hope, from Him! No wonder they do that, follow their father the devil, who comes only to kill, steal and burn down vacant houses on devil's night! grrrrr

God be with you as you go and get a job in Detroit and provide for your own and those who come with you so that your team can begin laying down your lives and help the weak, seeing to it that they do not fail to receive the Grace of God:::>

Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;


1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
1Jn 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn 3:16 By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
1Jn 3:17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
1Jn 3:18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

ok,

It's been awhile and a few views later of those videos.

quote
"...stay out of our neighborhood if you don't like us, I talking to you Christians, you mormons" endquote.

Hmmmm,

Now let's put another spin on this quote from a very irrate young man.

So, not just Christians, but over 60 percent of the State's population voted to uphold a previous "will" of the people vote regarding marriage in our "neighborhoods" in California.

So, using the young man's logic, we, the rest of society can break all civil laws of courteousness and decency when gays and lesbians come to our neighborhoods and require that they, them, that no Gay or Lesbian are allowed in our neighborhood also? Right? Lady Justice is blind and apparently it is ok then to have the same sentiments as he? Is that was he was inviting?

I wonder how well that sentiment would play in Peoria?

You see John, it's statements like this one you make above that gives me pause and concern and because of that, my "word" to you is "do not move from where you are". It won't work and the whirlwind will whirl whirl whirl around you.

Here's what you said::::> "....My radical commitment to the “No cookie cutter” principle of ministry development will help us pursue a fresh design that’s uniquely personal and biblically relevant… while also embracing key, non-negotiable principles of church growth and the house of prayer movement. It’s an advance that will shock a very dark culture with the light, power and furious love of the Creator...."

Now here is a True Apostolic Word, quite a bit different I might add:::>

2Ti 2:1 You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2Ti 2:2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
2Ti 2:3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:4 No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him.
2Ti 2:5 An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
2Ti 2:6 It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops.
2Ti 2:7 Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

Now that's Apostolic "cookie cutter" Jesus Christ ministry. The farmer does the same every year. The athlete's body is the same and the same rules apply, every time he runs in the race. The Soldier enlisted by Christ does not, does not, does not involve himself or herself in civilian pursuits. And finally, the Grace of God is the same yesterday, during Paul and Timothy's day, today during our day and every day.

That's "cookie cutter" Apostolic. God doesn't need any bold, fresh relevant uniquely personal anything from you. He needs you dead to self and alive unto God in Christ Jesus and this happening will only happen if you are called to equip the Saints for the work of service His tried and tested Way, not your new fresh relevant way. There is no church growth principles. There is only God adding daily such as should be saved:::>

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

It's Christ's image that God wants to see. That's cookie cutter Apostolic!

Here, I urge, along with Paul, this for you, keeping in mind God is the "same" yesterday, today and forever:::>

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.


thoughts?

Well, I fail to see the issue?

My God and King, Jesus Christ publicly died for the Faith He delivered to His own out of every persuasion of humanity. We could learn and understand some of the dilemma of the issues here as Paul taught it:::>

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

I would say, knowing some of those folks in the KTVU "video" displaying the hostility towards one belief by another that it is quite telling when you view the video after allowing these words to sink deeply into your spirit first::::>

Tit 3:1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

I would observe that to be heterosexual in Iran is not a sin but homosexuality is a sin and it is against their laws to be such. You would however be hanged for being a Christian and a homosexual if it became known to the rulers and authorities conducting sovereign Islamic law there.

Do you see what Paul is now getting at there in Titus 3?

This battle has sadly gotten put out into an arena similar to the days of Jesus. It has gone public!

The end is coming, the end is coming, the end is coming!

My advice to those beloved Christians, be a bit more thoughtful and wise next time you want to gather together and peacably assembly to exercise your constitutional civil rights to pray for those who hate you by going to their turf to pray and sing songs to Jesus openly! I have been to the Castro district and hey, them there is openly gay, no doubt about it!

It is going to be really really hard to determine the subjective hatred one has for another in the coming years on earth. In this case, it was obvious!

To those trying to control God's Love in His people by objective "civil rights laws" about hatred, it will be much easier to find the Christian than the homosexual especially if after the civil rights of this perversion is allowed to overturn the will of the people of the State of California so that Christians start having Gays and Lesbians arrested for violating their civil rights with hate speech focused loudly and openly against them!

The law stands on two feet, not one, Be forewarned! And the lady is blindfolded, Our Lady of Justice!

What? So Joe the Christian had John the Gay arrested for a hate crime! Hmmmmm, how's that going to play in the press?

John, wow, hmmmmm?

All I can say after reading that is this one word rings and rings and rings in my "knower", my "belly", deep in my spirit:

"turbulent".

Here is the Word of the Lord for John Burton at this time. Mark my words John, judge it::::>

Psa 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!"

For me, John, this is the thing I "don't" understand as I read your words:::>

"[[Before you point the finger, we in the church will often choose our church based on what we can get out of it.]]"

When I read that I "get" lost! I go, hmmmmm, that's not Biblical!

Here is today's Biblical Church from where I sit:::>

Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Act 2:46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,
Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

When you go to the first 7, 8 or nine chapters of Acts and beyond, basis what Jesus Himself is doing basis the Truth of Our Heavenly Father "working" and Jesus "working" and of course the Holy Ghost "working" and see each and every reference to the "increase" of, the multiplication of "the Church", I come away with a very difference sense than what you write, "[[ we in the church will often choose our church]]". For me, that is the crux of the problem. According to the Bible, God does the choosing and adding, not mankind!

We are not insisting on those "joining" Christ's Church to be certain this is the "Will" of God.

I agree as you say above in this assessment :::>"[[My strong feeling is this: the church, generally speaking, in our nation is like the frog in the kettle. We are losing sensitivity, prophetic unction, discernment and true Biblical purpose. We are voting in the churches (with our participation or lack thereof, gossip and level of giving) and in the voting booths on election day with the same intent: demand that we get what we want from the systems.]]"

As you probably are quite aware now coming back from Thailand and meeting with some very fired up, prophetic, Spirit drenched Saints there, hungry for nothing but PURE GOD, it does seem dull and thick and absent that "fire" of the Holy Ghost back here at home?

I know the sense, having come back from Asia, many times, Africa, many times, Europe, the Middle East and Central and South America a few times. What troubles me most is the "eagerness" of those in these countries that I have been too, that they seem to have a zeal and desire to come to America not realizing the Gospel is in every nation on earth already. For the most part, it's hidden or deep under ground, in some cases.

I do not believe it is because of Christ or what is happening in the Church in America. No, I rather believe it is because of the "national right" to speak freely and dream big and become very successful without much interference from oppressive governments and socialistic graft and corruption. Our nation is still a nation of laws. Although, it is turning now that some have figured out how to corrupt the judicial system to rule from the bench and not from the Executive House. Things are getting from bad to worse when 4 Judges in California can overturn the moral judgment of the majority of voters who have made their will known at the ballot box!

So, to finish up, let me make is unequivocally clear as a man of God, in service to My King as a subject of This Royal Kingdom, alive, well, powerfully effective in Heaven itself, My God is actively at work in the hearts and minds of mankind in every nation on earth right now and nothing is getting past over by Him. He will bring every idle word spoken by me or you into the fire and He will purge every thing that does not reflect the "Glory", the "Dominion", the "Abundant Grace" and His Mercy from us. What else can we do but lift our hands in Praise for such lovingkindness and mercy and grace from Our God, Who loves us so?

Jesus Christ has adequate financial support to "build His Church". Jesus Christ is actively adding daily to His Church such as are being saved.

As the Church unites with the Truth, the Power and the Hand of God in this country too, He will bring about repentance, first within our House and clean it up, purge and purify it and then He will turn to the world, sitting in darkness and they will "sees" this Great Light actively working, causing those chosen from before the foundation of the world to respond to His Word and Work, not man's.

With that I leave off with one verse by Paul from Acts 20:::>

Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.


Hold to it John, trust in God and the Word of His Grace, preach the Word of Grace for God because God and His Word of Grace are well able to build up and give the inheritance among those who are indeed sanctified!

Amen?

Amen!

The Problem Restated,

It is my view that you hit it on the head, you button holed it well when you wrote this in response to Dutch Sheets above:::>

"[[I feel Dutch believes his personal desires and feelings are God’s will, hence the confusion over the outcome of the elections.]]"

This very thing is why Jesus came and died.

The Reformed Church, of which I believe you are of, has to take some responsibility for this matter, don't you think?

I come from a harshly treated subculture of society, I am a California Indian. I got my teeth sharpened by the RCC. After my parents divorced, a messy one, we their offspring realized sadly we were more of a pawn on their game board. Once the dust settled, off to the training the RCC wants every little boy and girl to come into and go down under.

Sheets just reflects a view that is necessarily dangerous and I might add, you and me are in the same soup bowl.

Here is how I would unpack the cited words of yours above, Biblically.

For instance, as you well know the English Translations of the Bible, His Word penned, came from Words spoken from the Hearts of God, Our Heavenly Father, or Jesus or the Holy Ghost before they were penned "The Holy Bible".

Those Godly words are our protection from the sorts of things we are experiencing these days in the Evangelical, Emergent, Seeker Sensitive sorts with which Dutch Sheets has a place.

Here, consider the "Greek word" in the verse:

Joh 12:20 Now among those who went up to worship at the feast were some Greeks.
Joh 12:21 So these came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and asked him, "Sir, we wish to see Jesus."
Joh 12:22 Philip went and told Andrew; Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus.
Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Contrast those words with Dutch Sheets' back peddlings now that he so clearly prophesied the McCain Palin ticket will come to the highest office of the United States.

What can we learn here when we dig deeper, to consider the True meaning of those verses?

The words "LIFE" in verse 25 are different. The verse again with the correct word and meaning:

Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life, [that is, what he wills, imagines, thinks is right and what pleases his flesh] loses it, and whoever hates his life, [that is, what he wills, imagines, thinks is right and what pleases his flesh] in this world will keep it for eternal life [the everpresent, unchanging life of God's particular Mind, Will and Emotions, His Spirit Life]

Again:

. Joh 12:25 Whoever loves his life/psuche loses it, and whoever hates his life/psuche in this world will keep it for eternal life/zoe.

Here are the two Greek words:

ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

and

ζωή
zōē
dzo-ay'
From G2198; life (literally or figuratively): - life (-time). Compare G5590.

You indeed have uncovered the "error" of Dutch Sheets and most of the Evangelical world.

I would warrant that prophesy today in the "wild" culture or olive tree, is tipping over to one's psuche/life and getting farther and farther way from the calling of Eternal Life/Zoe found in Jesus Christ.

Jesus "prayed" this:::>

Joh 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
Joh 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

Jesus did not "pray" this: " and this is eternal life/psuche, but rather eternal life/zoe!

Again, your words:::> "[[I feel Dutch believes his personal desires and feelings are God’s will, hence the confusion over the outcome of the elections.]]"

Sadly, this is what a small man believes is a big God's view of things based on his own "feelings", mind, will and emotions! Go ahead and guess where his followers will end up following this sort of prophesy? How about in the same place as he?

Maybe we should all resign ourselves from our high positions in our imaginations, our own personal minds, wills and emotions and humble ourselves and become like a child in thinking and sing that song we learned in Sunday School? Red, Yellow, Black or White, all are precious in His sight?

thoughts?

For me, Jeremiah has helped me greatly to repent and walk humbly in the Light of the Glory of God's Gospel:

Jer 17:4 You shall loosen your hand from your heritage that I gave to you, and I will make you serve your enemies in a land that you do not know, for in my anger a fire is kindled that shall burn forever."
Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.
Jer 17:6 He is like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see any good come. He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness, in an uninhabited salt land.
Jer 17:7 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD.
Jer 17:8 He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit."
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

What can we learn here?

Nowhere in the Bible are we, the Sons and Daughters of the "Kingdom" taught to be anything but respectful to our enemies when they are human.

Nowhere in the Bible are we, the Sons and Daughters of the "Kingdom" taught to not pray for those in authority knowing that all authority is from God.

Also, a most missed understanding is the Children of God in this world are treated differently by God and held to a much higher standard than the children of this world ruled by the god of this world.

We have a saying in my community that it's three against four. The "four" are always on the offensive. The "three" are always offending!

What are the four?

Our home life, our Church community life, our school life and our work or vocations.

What are the three?

The world, the flesh and the devil.

When you stop and consider all the emails and "prophesies" and words that have come to the light over the last few months about this or that, we should be ashamed.

Ok, get over it!

We, the Sons and Daughters of the Kingdom have a True King, who died, the Revelation to John teaches, died and is "Alive" forevermore and holds the keys of Death and Hades in His Hand.

Again I will encourage you to come "under" these words written on behalf of those who obviously were having problem coming under God's True Authorities in this life:

1Co 10:32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,
1Co 10:33 just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

If you think or imagine that you personally will not have problems struggling with this or those words of Jeremiah above, I feel sad for you. You without sin cast the first stones.

We are the Sons and Daughters of the Kingdom and because of "Eternal" Love, we have been freed from our own sins not to accuse or condemn other sinners but so that we too can be Our Heavenly Father's Priests offering prayer for the life of others:::>

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
Rev 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

detroit, you wrote:::>[["The Church used to be a lifeboat rescuing the perishing. Now she is a cruise ship recruiting the promising."]]

I would not say that about her, detroit. The Church, you know, Who Jesus is building, in spite of you and your work, is doing just fine!

The Church, you know, She is still the "lifeboat" rescuing the perishing. Whoever is a cruise ship recruiting the promising is not the True Church, that much I do agree with.

Most likely the book of the Revelation is True. Well, I will be bold and say, "IT IS TRUE". Heed the warning detroit, heed it:::>

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
Rev 18:5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.

"COME OUT OF HER".

Here, here is what the "True" Church is up to, even in these days you speak about:::>

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!"

Well then, come on detroit, let's rejoice over the world, then!

Here's another warning:::>

Mat 10:27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

John,

have they changed the visa rules? Are you going into Thailand as a tourist, a businessman or an Evangelical?

Stay away from the street vendors and those 'green' peppers! They will melt your eyes out!

Where in Thailand will you be? In Bangkok, Pattaya, Chang Mai? I have been to all these places and then some.

As for why people are leaving the Church a thousand a day, I believe it to be for a different reason than you cite above.

When we read in our Bibles that "God adds daily to the Church such as should be saved", I take God at His Word.

To dissect the reason for such an exodus could be as varied as each person leaving and most probably is.

I know only what I know and have experienced from God. I know that I know that I know that I was "saved", enlightened and placed in the Body fitted by the Hand of God and the Holy Ghost. I don't suppose there is any other way for becoming a member of this "House", is there?

What God has begun, He is well able to complete. What has He begun is the question? Some people come to Church for all the wrong reasons. Let Christ bring you in and you will be in even if you are out!

Php 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

You know, I ask, what is a revival?

God sent His Word to His Son, supposedly at lightspeeds, Who in turn obediently sent His Angel to John with His Word to Him, who, John, received that Angelic visitation while imprisoned on the Island of Patmos, who had paper and ink and the Spirit remained in His midst as the Prophet said:::>

Hag 2:5 according to the covenant that I made with you when you came out of Egypt. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not.

MY SPIRIT REMAINS IN YOUR MIDST. "FEAR NOT".

And wrote to the Church at Ephesus:::>

Rev 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.

Revival you say? You say we need a worldwide revival? Good for those who have not lost their way and are dim when it comes to "His Love".

You see, revival brings repentance. It restores that "First Love" daily, new, all over again.

Here are revival quotes too:::>

THE SOLUTION TO THE POLLUTION IS NOT DILUTION, ITS ABSOLUTION

THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY

Shall we not all prophesy?

Lift up the Name of Jesus.
Tell of His wonderful Grace.
Assure the "hearer" that the Blood of Jesus is as RED as it was at the first drops from His Veins!
Oh the Bloody mess this marred beyond recognition, Man of Sorrows and acquainted with grief Man suffered that we can be slaves of His Righteousness and no longer slaves of our own sinful nature!

Revival you ask and pray?

I say, Repent, Rejoice in Him. You only have one life to Live. Live in Him and with Him for Him:::>

Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

If you are sleeping with anyone else, you are sleeping with a harlot!

It's Him. It's Him. It's Him!

1Ch 16:28 Ascribe to the LORD, O clans of the peoples, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength!
1Ch 16:29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering and come before him! Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness;
1Ch 16:30 tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.
1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, "The LORD reigns!"
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.

I don't know about that but I do know about demons.

I now know about Angels.

Angels will do the work they are sent to do and they will do it in the Name of the One sending them to do the work they are sent to do:::>

Heb 1:13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

Something happened the day God Almighty tore from top to bottom the veil of the Temple:::>

Mat 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.
Mat 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Mat 27:54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"


What? What was done then when that veil was torn from top to bottom?

The work the Jews could not complete in bringing this Gospel of the Kingdom to every creature for a witness and then the end shall come "began". This work will end the world one day!

See those words from Matthew's account?

What happened? Tombs were opened and many bodies of the Saints rose from the ground!

And just as Jesus said!

But something more amazing was done that day! Do you see it?

Read it for yourself and rejoice with King David. It has been in King David's heart all this time even up to today and to the end of time. The Centurion now could see Jesus!

Mat 27:54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"


TRULY THIS WAS THE SON OF GOD!.

Here is how King David sang it:::>

1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, "The LORD reigns!"
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.


No, TRULY TRULY THIS IS, THIS IS, THIS IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SON OF GOD, risen and now reigning in Heaven and on earth and throughout the air!!!

It's ok that this Centurion did not get his theology right! After all, he was having a God changing moment, let's cut him a little slack! He did just kill Jesus!

There are Three falls of the devil, Satan, Lucifer, the ring leader of the beast, the false prophet, Death, Hades and all whose names are not found written in the book of Life.

The "first" fall has happened already just as Jesus said:::>

Luk 10:18 And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."


The "second" fall comes at the hands of the Church and will come just as quickly when the Church today rises up and reigns in the Authority of Jesus Christ:::>

Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.
Luk 11:18 And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
Luk 11:19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luk 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
Luk 11:22 but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil.
Luk 11:23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.


and::::>

Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Eph 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.


and finally, the "third" fall comes here after Satan and the demons are now cast down to the earth and live underground with the serpents and snakes and scorpions and all evil creatures and humans who come against His Glorious Bride, the Wife of the Lamb:::>

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


So, for the Faith 'full", not in their strength or might but in the Strength and Might of the Lord, who gives a rip if there is one or ten demons underground or under rocks?

It is high time for the Church that Christ washes daily in His Blood and Breath to rise up and reign in Life:::>

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth."

and:::>

Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.


amen?

Amen!

Yeah John,

we are asking you questions, lots and lots of questions and you are not answering our questions! You must be a heretic! :)

But I am forbearing as in exercising forbearance towards you so I must not be a heretic then, so hurry up and give an account for the hope that lives within you!!!!

But as to prophesy, here is what I believe. First, my warrant:

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Here we see that Jesus was given a "Word" from Our Heavenly Father about prophesy.

I believe that crafty souls have abused this "Word" for personal glory and financial gains and for that they shall come under God's judgment and wrath if they do not repent.

Thank God that if they are children of God, they can claim Christ's suffering on the Cross for sinful mistakes and receive forgiveness for that error.

Having noted those words at Revelation 19 that "the testimony of Jesus" is the Spirit of Prophesy, I am saying that all of us, every time we boldly, gently or rudely speak on behalf of Christ, we are speaking a prophesy!

A "Thus saith the Lord" in King James English or in some gibberish is getting a bit old. We need affirmation, all of us and I believe because of this natural desire, we are more prone to wanting our ears tickled and by this desire, we open ourselves up to unfettered prophesies that bring harm and not help to our souls.

Here is how Our God sums up this whole matter which confirms why He revealed these things to Jesus to reveal these things to His Servants through John who wrote those things there at Revelation 19:::>

Heb 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.


It isn't mysterious or complex, prophesy or prophesying. It is simply a matter of sharing the Truth about Christ to a listening ear. This is prophesy. We all can prophesy and most of the time we are prophesying and don't even consider that when we are sharing God's love or the Gospel with one listening to our every word.

And let's be clear about this Gospel that we share. It is said so succinctly here I will prophesy by pasting it here:::>

1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.


Emrys, I appreciate the tone and manner of yours addressing that matter in Corinthians and I say you bring a balance to it.

You are correct that Paul the Apostle gave a "judgment". A child could have done that if they were listening to the voice of the Spirit. Because these folks, the Corinthians, were more prone to the things of the flesh by their very culture that they grew up in, I suppose that is why it wasn't being clearly heard even among the leadership there. Whatever the reason, the Apostle made a judgment and the Church actually responded in obedience to the Faith and God actually turned that one over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh as the Church so requested of God to do. As in the natural so it is in the spiritual You can consider what happened to be like what King David ordered Joab to do to Uriah and so it happened as he ordered it. God removes His protection from one such as that guy so that the enemies can devour his "flesh" so that his spirit can be saved in the Day of the Lord. Also refer to Job 18 so see a similar kind of destruction of one's flesh.

At the end of the day, I hope we have an agreement that neither Jesus, nor the Holy Ghost did anything outside the Authority given to them? Please refer to John 10 and John 16 to see both, Jesus acknowledging that He did and does, even today, do nothing without Our Heavenly Father giving Him the Authority to do so. And refer to John 16 to read how Jesus describes that the Holy Ghost only does what He too is given Authority to do. All I can say is wow!

If we could come close to following that Command structure as Jesus, the Holy Ghost, Paul and the Church at Corinth, we would see a bit more hostility expressed against us, a true hatred spurred on by our "obedience to the Faith" as Paul wrote about and the Words of the other Apostles given to us for our learning and admonition upon whom the end of the ages has come:::>

Rom 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

and

Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages
Rom 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith--


amen?

I want the Truth, emrys is wrong and misquotes the verse.

Here is the verse:

(1Co 5:5) you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Paul the Apostle gave "his" judgment and told the "Church" in Corinth to deliver or turn over the man to Satan for the destruction of his "flesh"/sarx that his "spirit"/pnuema would be saved in the day of the Lord.

Just thought you would want to be "re-corrected". It was the Church directed by the Apostle do apply the discipline.

John

I am back. Just came back from a visit to Promiseland Fellowship. I and Michael and Cindy Jacobs worked in Washingtion D.C. together so I decided to hop on down and see what all the fuss was about?

But, now, I need to challenge you John.

Show me in Scripture where "taking" offerings exists?

John

while I admire your earnest I have to flatly disagree with you again on this matter.

You have to step back from this for awhile and let your own spirit settle. I would appeal to your better judgment in all earnest.

I know most of these folks involved personally on some level having been in ministry over 30 years.

Let me counter your persuasion a bit with this:

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

"Paul publicly and boldly" confronted Peter, why? "Because he was to be blamed", and I would venture a guess if that confrontation was yesterday, guys with that kind of reputation in the Active Living Church would have had it covered by GodTV and Paul would have wanted to have it happen that way. Why? God did not cover over this error of the mighty Apostle Peter, did He? No, how do we know that? Because I just quoted it from the Bible that the Saints read daily all over the World and in every nation these days! Can I hear an amen? Can you make the connection?

Now put the gravity of those words of Paul from Galatians 2 against Peter in the balance with the gravity of Todd's errors, who has fallen into far worse and with everyone else who participated in that alignment ceremony that night and all the self justifications after all that that has occurred and quite frankly because of this very one I level some harsh criticism toward's this very behavior coming from Bill Johnson.

We cannot justify this stuff and each of these men and women are not light weights and each is quite aware of this:

Jas 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

Everything that happened that night happened by men and women using "words", prophesies!!!!

I honestly believe you have not or you cannot observe/d that coming from Bill Johnson objectively and come away with anything other than Bill was covering for himself and making excuses and justifying his own errors here.

According to Bill and Todd, Bill is and has been actively envolved in Todd's spiritual development! Contrast this relationship with Biblical standards:

2Ti 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

The Biblical standard laid out here for Apostolic growth in Spiritual maturity cannot, cannot, cannot be compromised or slackened one bit, especially because of the extremely evil times we live in.

I don't want to go into this like the last time, but I will, if warranted because I sense a purity in you that I haven't found in awhile. Afterall our mandate is clear:

1Ti 1:5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


Now, for the Lord's sake, don't take that last bit to far in your own spirit. Just back away from this for awhile.

The one thing I read up there from you that I embrace is this and to it I say AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!!!!!!:::::>

You wrote this above:

[[God has biblical government well established, and it’s doubtful that one who is not in relationship with someone like Todd would be tapped out of nowhere to participate in his correction.]]

Let the Spiritual men of the True, Active Living Church, without excuse or justification, help this family now according to the restoration mandate of God's Holy Scripture and yes, you and I have already agreed upon and no Godly man or woman would deny Todd or Shannon this:

Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
Gal 6:5 For each one will bear his own load.

amen

John

great to here some refreshment come from you these days!

I was worried!

You wrote in your Burton's future article this:

"God wants to come as he is and do what he wants."

Also you laid a good foundation for "maturity" in the above article.

I want to quote portions of Scripture from Hebrews and other places on your quote above about God and what He wants and my comment on the good foundation you have laid for "maturity".

To maturity first then:

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this we will do if God permits.

Seeing here this "warrant" to press on, to go into, to make every stand to enter Godly "maturity" I wanted to caution us all to go daily at it line upon line and precept upon precept, that is, don't be in a hurry and haphazardly go beyond our daily Cross walk "in" Christ.

Jesus Himself dealt with life each day, day by day as we learn and He taught us here:
".....Mat 6:34 "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. "

Now a comment about what God wants here and consider "Who" is leading "Who" and consider this, that "He" would do the same for us too:::>Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

When one is "born" again, we are born to "serve" the Living God not people.

We are first God's servants and sufferings come with the territory as Peter taught too:

1Pe 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.
1Pe 2:19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly.
1Pe 2:20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.
1Pe 2:21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
1Pe 2:22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.
1Pe 2:23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.
1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
1Pe 2:25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Paul also admonishes us here:

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.


Here is my prayer for the work that will continue in Detroit: LORD BREATHE EVEN MORE FIRE ON DETROIT AND CONSUME HER FOR YOUR GLORY AND FOR THE GLORY OF GOD AND YOUR KINGDOM!

Here is King David's prayer for Detroit: 1Ch 16:29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering and come before him! Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness;
1Ch 16:30 tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.
1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, "The LORD reigns!"
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.

amen?

amen and amen

Emrys,

I do not know who you are or your position in the "ordained" Ministry crowd. And quite frankly I am not in the least impressed with you anyway as obviously you are not very impressed with me.

You do seem to become even more suspect to me now.

Let me remind you of a portion of the Word you seem to not want to embrace.

If you were considering the Words of Scripture I have been using your foolish little bite there would not have been. But seeing you did bite, I recommend you bite on this for awhile and chew on it until it sinks down into your spiritual being seeing you quoted from James, here is more of James then:::>

Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.


Every one of those folks on stage that infamous night captured by GodTV of Todd's alignment were there because they passed over to the realm spoken about above. They were representatives of Christ's Ordained Crowd.

No one for a moment, at least those that I am aware of, are happy about what has come after that night.

The sadness is this that an opportunity has been given to our enemies to distract some from the Grace and Mercy and Peace of God you so desperately are supposedly in favor of.

There is clear fault to bear here. The strict harshness and scorn coming from God's people is reserved for those who would be a Teacher or Preacher of Christ's Grace, Mercy and Peace on the world stage today.

Again, as John and I have already come to agree on together, consider this as the mandate for this whole bunch, who, themselves now by their continual self justifications, are very suspect even more so that they each chose to come on stage that night and be a participator in the alignment to Apostolic Authority of Todd Bentley. Jesus Christ is the Apostle. He has not lost any of His Power or Authority. He is going to do just fine. He is not very worried about the mess we Christians make. He has already covered our mistakes. This matter has nothing to do with our juvenile understanding of the Gospel of the Kingdom. It has everything to do with the Ordination of ill-prepared brother to such a "high" office reflective of Our Dear Lord Jesus Christ! To which each and everyone of those folks are now subject to James' higher standard. Are you going to now continue to insinuate that is not relevant Emrys?

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
Gal 6:5 For each will have to bear his own load.

John, what?

You can't handle this coming from one such as I am:::>

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Or::::>

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

I will say it again and you can if you like, take it to heart if you want too, God is on the move and it's not pretty:

Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

John,

you quoted Matthew 5.

Here's KJV and note, "without a cause":

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I certainly do have a cause to be angry. You haven't noticed the scorn of God's people these days? I believe I am well within my right to this reason to be angry with that foolishness displayed that night. It's self evident by what has been happening since, don't you think?

I believe I am right on track when I quote these verses:

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.


Emrys, for your information, I don't believe I have anything quite like the Word of God to offer, so, pardon me, I believe I will continue quoting and referencing the Scripture to carry my intent forth, thank you. You can judge what I say any ol' way you like as if that means anything in light of the severity of these matters we are grappling with in these days of evil.

What? You do not enjoy being refreshed and reminded what God's Word has to say about errors in the Church?

John,

let your yes be yes and your no be no, thank you. I will speak as I am directed. You do the same yourself quite well as is event here:

''It seems as if you have an ax to grind with people... that's not healthy. Why do you act so rudely and aggressively when people don't perform as you feel they should? Why are you so mad at people who may have given a prophetic word that was missed? Why are you so excited that God is going to judge people? You should be crying out for mercy!''

now, to answer your questions.

No, my work is at Eph. 3:8-12 and Romans 1:5 when it comes to rulers and authorities and equipping the Saints for the work of service. No compromise on that one!

If anyone wants to take me to task, so be it. go at it. Rude? Who is being rude? I am speaking the Truth! Am I sorry it is emotionally upsetting for some? No.

Yes, you got that right, I am indeed mad at some who you believe "gave" a prophetic word. They simply did not a prophetic word. It is your imagination that those events that night that GodTV recorded and were put on YouTube for the general public to see and listen to were "prophetic" words of the Living God. I will say it now as I have before, those were not God's Words and that was a sad event that happened at Lakeland. We have clear and unequivocal warrants as to God's Words and the Prophetic. What we witnessed was pathetic words from some folks who now, if they would be honest, are totally humiliated by their involvement. They have been justifying themselves and will continue to "justify" what they personally got caught up in in the moments that night. Their "ministries" are their own god projects and it is sad what the fruit is now about it.

Cite or point to any one of those leaders who have repented and taken personal responsibility for their part in that event? I haven't as yet been directed to that. Am I hopeful it will come about? Yes.

You are crazy and high on drugs if you, for one moment, think I take lightly the judgment of God.

I do not take lightly the Judgment of God, nor His chastening, which I also have endured!

Tell me what is pleasant about these verses John and then go ahead and insinuate that I am happy about the Judgment of God when it comes on any soul?

Psa 50:16 But to the wicked God says: "What right have you to recite my statutes or take my covenant on your lips?
Psa 50:17 For you hate discipline, and you cast my words behind you.
Psa 50:18 If you see a thief, you are pleased with him, and you keep company with adulterers.
Psa 50:19 "You give your mouth free rein for evil, and your tongue frames deceit.
Psa 50:20 You sit and speak against your brother; you slander your own mother's son.
Psa 50:21 These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.
Psa 50:22 "Mark this, then, you who forget God, lest I tear you apart, and there be none to deliver!
Psa 50:23 The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; to one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God!"

Emrys

thanks for your comments.

Having been around awhile and engaged head to head with a few demonic forces and have had myself sent to me the visitations of Angels, I would not go so far as you have in your claims about me.

You need to take some time, step back and embrace "The Word of the Lord" coming out of me and repent yourself if you are going to justify what has happened, all in the Name of the Lord there at Lakeland by C. Peter Wagner, and companies of Apostles and Prophets in their commissioning of Todd Bentley and his wife into a "new move of God" on the world stage.

This whole affair is so discrediting the Grace of the God it makes me angry.

This whole affair is just a bunch of immature Christians trying to out do or better self imagines by bringing glory to themself and then when things went badly, they all bail out, back peddling and self justifiying their own foolish actions and speakings that night.

Let me remind you that Jesus Christ is the ruler of the kings of the earth, even today.

He has got all things under control.

He doesn't need me or you to complete the tasks for which He was sent to this world.

We ought to learn to sit at God's Righteous Right Hand and let God do His work according to His promise to us, as in, let Him kick the butt of our enemies as He has promised Christ and His Body, the Bride, the Wife of the Lamb He will do, has been doing throughout history and will do in the coming days, weeks, months and years of this final age of history.

Here, swallow this and have a joyous Peaceful day!

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."
Psa 110:2 The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!
Psa 110:3 Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
Psa 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."
Psa 110:5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.
Psa 110:6 He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter chiefs over the wide earth.
Psa 110:7 He will drink from the brook by the way; therefore he will lift up his head.

Rom 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.


Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.


and finally, as you go about your joy full and peace full day today, go ahead and do this as well:::>

Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Act 20:33 I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel.
Act 20:34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me.
Act 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

and as you go about laying your own life down for others and "giving" to the weak among your circle of fellowship, instead of bleeding them dry by hype and emotional promises you cannot keep you also might get involved and get in the face of the demonic and let the Lord rule your house by His power and might and force!

Here:

Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Eph 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
Eph 3:13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.


In the mean time, brother Todd and his wife and for that matter, all these folks who were involved in his alignment to be a mighty Apostle on the world stage, coming in the Name of the Lord, ah, those who clearly missed the "True Word of the Lord" for Todd and Shannon and the Lakeland revival, for whatever reason, now need this to happen to each of them and I warn you too Emrys, God is about to begin a shaking of His House first and He will not stop until He has purged and purified Her by removing all offenses out of Her and remove those lawless ones who speak the "Word of the Lord" falsely and foolishly and immaturely:::>

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
Gal 6:5 For each will have to bear his own load.


Emyrs, fair enough response from me, for you?

I suggest you come under the great murderer and adulterer king David and seek this from Heaven itself today and every day for the rest of your days:::>

1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, "The LORD reigns!"
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.

John,

come on, let's be very direct here?

Here is what Todd Bentley said about "emma" and what a pastor's wife did. Please reconcile that that they claim and did with what is the work of the "Holy Ghost"?

[[Todd Bentley: During this visitation the pastor’s wife (it was an AOG church) got totally whacked by the Holy Ghost - she began running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken as a powerful prophetic spirit came on her. ]]

1Co 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,
1Co 10:33 just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

Again, please cite verses from the OT or NT where this sort of thing occurred, barking like a dog and squawking like a chicken?

Angels exist. Demons exist. Angels are assigned to the "heirs" of Salvation. Demons are assigned by the prince of demons to particular tasks too, to kill, steal and destroy life!

I cannot see in Scripture anywhere where the Holy Ghost, God Our Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ are lending an expression by Their Elect Angels to incite such offensive behavior in light of the verses cited above, can you?

If you can, please cite the verses and I will retract my position.

Tell me how what is being described above by Todd as to what happened to that pastor's wife by a "strong" prophetic spirit, reflects any one of these "fruits" of the Spirit:::>

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

And another thing I need answered seeing you have a sense of what the Holy Ghost and the Elect Angels are doing at Lakeland with regard to Todd's experiences and communications with "emma".

If emma is an Elect Angel, how is it, as C. Peter Wagner and Bill Johnson report, Todd has had and continues to have struggles so grave with immoralities that emma failed to assist him? Where in the Bible does any one of God Elect Angels ever fail a mission they have been sent on for Our God or the Kingdom of God? Please cite some verses to underscore Angelic failure.

All of the angelic visitations that I see in Scripture always led an individual or nation away from the human failures of the flesh to the Salvation Christ died for us to receive.

Here is one place of Scripture citing from the Old Testament of a "national" Elect Angel and his mission:

Exo 23:20 "Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
Exo 23:22 "But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
Exo 23:23 "When my angel goes before you and brings you to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, and I blot them out,
Exo 23:24 you shall not bow down to their gods nor serve them, nor do as they do, but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their pillars in pieces.
Exo 23:25 You shall serve the LORD your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you.
Exo 23:26 None shall miscarry or be barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days.
Exo 23:27 I will send my terror before you and will throw into confusion all the people against whom you shall come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you.
Exo 23:28 And I will send hornets before you, which shall drive out the Hivites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites from before you.
Exo 23:29 I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become desolate and the wild beasts multiply against you.
Exo 23:30 Little by little I will drive them out from before you, until you have increased and possess the land.


What do we see now happening at Lakeland? Something instead of "little by little" our enemies taking flight and Christ's Gospel coming forth with power and signs and wonders in a way, that at least, equals what Paul wrote about his own Apostolic work:::>

Rom 15:14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another.
Rom 15:15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God
Rom 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God.
Rom 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience--by word and deed,
Rom 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God--so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;
Rom 15:20 and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation,
Rom 15:21 but as it is written, "Those who have never been told of him will see, and those who have never heard will understand."


Now for a "particular" and a direct "one on one" Elect Angel and Apostle encounter memorialized in Scripture, one I am sure Christians worldwide are all acquainted with:

Act 12:11 When Peter came to himself, he said, "Now I am sure that the Lord has sent his angel and rescued me from the hand of Herod and from all that the Jewish people were expecting." ....>
<....Act 12:17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, "Tell these things to James and to the brothers." Then he departed and went to another place.
Act 12:18 Now when day came, there was no little disturbance among the soldiers over what had become of Peter.
Act 12:19 And after Herod searched for him and did not find him, he examined the sentries and ordered that they should be put to death. Then he went down from Judea to Caesarea and spent time there.

Now, why is it when the Holy Ghost has His way with His Apostles, they always focus on the Lord pressing the communities they are being sent too to receive the Gospel of the Kingdom and no mention or focus is given any weight to "one on one" encounters with angels? I would say it is fair to say that the Holy Ghost puts very little emphasis on one on one encounters with angels instead of what I perceive is just the opposite emphasis happening at Lakeland which it seems you defend?

I find "this way" you are continually stepping to the plate to justify and then defend these folks, John, suspect!

No one of us should be doing that, for ourselves or for others. We are not trying to keep afloat our personal "gifted" ministries are we? Our work is an election and a calling as I have noted to you directly in the past on other topics within this blogsphere of yours, like these two things:::>

Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Act 20:33 I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel.
Act 20:34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me.
Act 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"


and this:

2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2Pe 1:11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


So, in summing up and waiting a deliberate response, John, what do we have now?

We see an angel named emma came around and wasn't successful enough to keep Todd from falling into immoralities, immoralities mind you that C. Peter Wagner accuses Todd of lying to him about, [cf., Wagner's recent response] and Bill Johnson knew about several years before the Apostolic alignment ceremony with many many public ministries putting their own words on it, and a God ordained revival that God ordained that has now gone sideways, which seems to me puts God in a bad light and opens even more doors for our enemies to bring more accusations, not against God but against the Church and bring more offense upon the Jews, the Greeks, [nations] and the Church!

I guess we can both agree with this little saying then, right? OH THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN, SO FULL OF BLISS AND GLORY, OH THE SAINTS ON EARTH, WELL THAT IS ANOTHER STORY!

John,

you wrote this:

[[If one Christian believes that angels are active today while another doesn't, that's ok. We can still get along. We can pray and serve side-by-side.]]

John cite for Scriptures where "angels" are used in the way taught by Todd Bentley.

John,

with all do respect to your comments above, I was being very "gracious".

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,
Pro 6:24 to preserve you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulteress.


Let me remind your readers of some things:

First, after much prayer for you and this whole mess, Stacy, Peter, Bill, Che, Rick and the rest, who I assert again are looking out for themselves by their very words, ....the "Lord" gave me the "quickened" Word, I tell you the Voice of the Lord is being "heard":::>

Mic 6:9 The voice of the LORD cries to the city-- and it is sound wisdom to fear your name: "Hear of the rod and of him who appointed it!

Mic 6:16 ".... so you shall bear the scorn of my people."

We in these days are experiencing both His "rod" and "the scorn of His people".



Now, this morning I will add to it , my comments above, mindful of these words from Micah to underscore the sincerity and earnest I place in this mix::::>

Pro 30:4 Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!
Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Jesus prophesized this:

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'


Now I turn back to Micah and his "burning" Words in our depth of being, our bellies. God's "rod" and His people's "scorn" which mind you if you read Wagner's response was very "scorn" full saying Todd was a liar! How can such a one as this apostle, C Peter Wagner, say that in light of the verses I will open up coming now:::>

Micah 6:9 ...."Hear of the rod and of him who appointed it!"

Here is the "Apostle" "Prophet" Jesus speaking about this "rod" and "Who" appointed it!"

I will post all the verses for a full context of what is being "done" in these days by Risen Christ Jesus right now because of this whole affair:::>

Mat 10:17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues,

AAAH, Todd has filed in court for divorce! He is dragging his wife there apparently? We shall see over time as this plays out! I do not minimize her role in this.

Mat 10:18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour.
Mat 10:20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Now consider verse 20 and the equivalence, our hope as True Believers when we speak in His Name in this world full of demons filling the air with truly hurtful hatred for God and mankind. As His Children, the sons and daughters of God, should not it be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's Spirit speaking through His, His Son Jesus' Body? You are not saying the Spirit of Our Heavenly Father when speaking through those who spoke, Stacey included, that night, spoke "half truths"? How did God get it all wrong about Todd seeing these folks all came to the podium speaking God's Word to Todd about his future and theirs with him, hmmmmm?

No, I believe now as I did then, that these folks got caught up in some "whirlwind" of emotions and they now regret it and because were not "hearing" clearly the "Voice of Our Heavenly Father" Who is the "First and the Last" as Scripture teaches, we sadly have these tragic events unfolding.

Mat 10:21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death,
Mat 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

As I posted in another dialogue with you John, I still remain faithful to that Word you agreed to yourself in reply to my comments:::>Galatians 6:1-5! Let 'spiritual men' now come along side and restore this whole affair.


Mat 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Mat 10:24 "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

Now, reconcile this verse here with what you know about that Alignment ceremony that was overseen by C. Peter Wagner, please? How is it that none of these folks got it right, Peter included? They have all come out publicly, soliciting for monies for various "God projects" as "Disciples who have attained to that place of Our Master", have they not? You yourself even solicit funds, John! hmmmmm, I digress.

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

I have not called Todd or any of these I am applying reproofs too as of the house of Beelzebul. If I have, quote it and I will retract it. I have said and firmly believe all along that they have simply missed the "Word of the Lord" and the Lord has applied His own discernment and discipline to it. If you are not a Son of God or His Daughter, don't worry about discipline, you won't get any from God, only "wrath", for you would be an illegitimate being in God's eyes anyway! All God's children are chastised and disciplined so that we can share in His Holiness, and it happens from time to time to bring reconciliation and healing to the crippled part of the Body!

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;
Heb 12:16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.

I continue now with Matthew,

Mat 10:26 "So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
Mat 10:27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.

I speak because of what I hear in the dark. I am proclaiming it opening hereon and letting your readers be the judge of what I say! I will be the first to say, if anything I write hereon has no "fire" in it, as in, after reading what I say, you do not burn inside your being, then it is not of God! That is why I say "judge it"! If these words I am publishing hereon are not of God, they will not burn within you. But, If the Holy Ghost comes behind them, and He will, you will know if I speak of God or not and what I hear Him speak to me to write hereon! I am certain of that, John!

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here is the "rod" and the One who appoints it confirming Micah's written Word I apply to this whole affair and apply it in the Name of the Lord!

The rod has come forth and we all should be ashamed! The scorn of many people have been unleashed into the world and the world is sitting back have fun and discrediting the Glory of God because of it and because of the foolishness of His people when foolishness displays itself like this alignment ceremony broadcast over GodTV!

Now hear this, this is our only Hope from Our God:::>

Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
Mat 10:30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.


Our only consolation is this, if there is error, we can appeal to the Gospel of the Kingdom and to Our Heavenly Father Who did send Jesus Christ to redeem us and ransom us, freeing us by His Blood from our own sins too.

Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
Rev 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion fore