DISQUS

A nice, informative article - Thanks! You guys have been kickin it on startups for quite some time, I folow you believe it or not :)

Always,
Phil

Now that we have that settled :) Can someone explain how Facebook is going to stay afloat after their half billion dollars runs out? Great article Adam, just prodding man.

Always,
Phil Butler

Bravo on the Google SERP's. Duplicate content hurts really bad and I would not be surprised to know Google has already penalized someone.

As for this story, I would like to invite interested parties to help me do a piece on Sitepoiont about this. Use my email if so inclined.

Always,
Phil Butler

P.S. Calling BS is fun

Okay! Open your email inbox guys. Your fame awaits :)

Matt,

Do you ever get the feeling cumulative Web 2.0 development these days is the digital equivalent of building the Great Pyramid at Giza with a billion billion loose grains of sand?

There are at least 1000 developments, that when combined, might actually produce something with feet on the actual ground.

This or that got 12 million dollars to see if they might sorta kinda maybe build yet another destination where social networkers (bloggers, marketers, geeks and digifiles) might migrate.

I think we need to run the numbers and see just how many actual (non blogger or digg aficionados) actually might report their sniffles on spitter, I mean twitter. :)

Always, Phil

Pete,

This is a great idea! I love Fairtilizer - the next generation of DIY music company on the Web. Just so you know my friend - watch this! :)

Always,

Phil

Paul,

Great work as always! This is most interesting man. (I miss writing with you at our former blog). Any way, I sent them a mail or two and I think this one might just have a chance if they respond to some feedback and go progressive.

Congrats Paul.. on keeping the pace - you are one of the best man.

Always,

Phil

Hello Kristen!

A great article about a startup with great potential. Comparisons abound every time an author writes about a startup it seems. I suppose this is natural after all. As Mig pointed out, Friendfeed is essentially a component of what can be done at Secondbrain, or at least it is now.

Trimmed down development has been the trend since Twitter and Facebook hit the scene. My only question is: "Is this the right way to develop?" With a platform like Secondbrain, users can be dealt a hand of features and services that combined with the "Library" aspect - provide great usability.

This by itself is not all that powerful, but combined with attention savings, user familiarity, singular tools and a focused commmunity - Secondbrain could prove to be that elusive "all in one" we all talk about.

Again, a great article Kristen! Phil

Hi Steve,


A very valid and timely post I must say. I have been working for another comment entity JS-Kit for some time now, and to be honest we have been a little curious about Dan's contentions of late. I tested and reviewed Disqus and talked to Dan back when it was launched - found it to be a great innovation back then. The problem then was how was this thing going to be monetized? Also, we were concerned about data or content not resident on the publisher's site even then. Dan did not have all the answers then obviously because it was so new.

Dan has three problems that he does not seem to want to address. He accused Kit and me of dogging him accross the Web after he retreated to Twitter yesterday. Well, my name is tied to his innovation in a way and the people at JS-Kit have operated with complete transparency in making and deploying their elements. So, yeah, I am going to go every place Dan goes and make sure that people are not duped into thinking that magically somehow their SEO and user comments are going to magically reappear when they need them.

Dan should reveal the monetization model for Disqus - People want transparency and this is a good PR move to show crediblity.

Dan should explain that their way of feeding the HTML back to the resident site from a file on their domain will be very slow if it works at all.

Dan should also just explain how the Disqus site will get SEO benefit from every scraped scrap of user content a publishers allows him to gather. Also, that if a publisher wants these comments back ...it will be all but impossible.

I liked Dan and Disqus if anyone cares to read the article I wrote on Profy about them. I predicted that they would out class even JS-KIt in the end if they develpped properly. But, here we are going crazy over a comment system that barely has 4000 sites when KIT has tens of thousands and is as good or better in many respects. Just making people aware that a smiling car salesman grin usually dennotes a car salesman under it.

Always,

Phil Butler

Fred,

I applaud your candor and transparency in as far as your association with Disqus. I suppose I should start my little comment in a similar way and disclose that JS-Kit is a client of mine. This being said, it should also be noted that Daniel's innovation was much supported by me as one of the initial testers and reviewers. I liked the initial platform and still do - but here is where to "love affair" gets rocky.

Though Disqus reveals some great features like those you mentioned, there are three main issues (with one corollary one) that everyone should be concerned about. Perhaps the biggest of these (and in comparison with JS-Kit's monetization model - even scary) is; "What if we use Disqus and they decide to start charging for the service?"

This question would be easy to answer save the proprietary issue of data ownership and utility. A user of JS-Kit's services, and a few others, can "opt out" without penalty at any time. Disqus does not allow for escaping with one's SEO and content in tact. This is very problematic even if you just started your cookie baking blog on Blogger.

Besides the aggravation of having your users use multiple signins (not so with Kit as it uses OpenID), Disqus essentially "robs" all benefit via SEO and data portability by storing and indexing a blogs comment data offsite. I feel that (know) this is by design as it is a very effective method of "stealing" content for search engine placement for Disqus the site -errr server...errr data dormitory.

I wish that Dan had consulted with me before embarking on this problematic course. Even if the mechanism is not designed to "bait and switch" potential "Mommy Bloggers" out of their search placement, the implications or even appearance of impropriety is beyond my comprehension for a startup or VC firm these days. JS-Kit, and its CEO Khris Loux, have done some amazing work (yes I am biased, but then I am for most startups if you look). People are freaking over Disqus being used on 4000 blogs, when Khris' work has permeated every corner of the Web and will soon approach over 20 million users. These widget masters are not creating rocket science Fred. If Scoble wants to use Disqus, given the current situation with data, he is an idiot or has some other interest. TechCrunch is not using it for this very reason I will bet (actually I fairly know as KIT is talking with them also):

So there you have it, transparency upon transparency upon a nebulous plan for making money. Would anyone like to bet on what the final plan for getting dollars for Disqus might involve? I hate being negative, but let's not hype things so much before they prove their worth. Sorry to be so adamant but I tested nearly everything Fred and beyond the testing and innovation - there is the user value - period.

Always,

Phil Butler

Robert,

I have never had cause to really question your stance on many things but this Disqus subject seems a little indefensible to me. I reviewed them (perhaps the first or second to do so) some time back and found them to be quite extraordinary in many ways. However, I feel a little betrayed in that even I predicted their prospects to be better than JS-Kit and several others back when.

The problem here is multifaceted of course. Disqus, though a viable and potential filled platform, is limited in a number of ways. Beyond that, their monetization scheme is at best "nebulous". Secondly, their data portability is potentially a disaster if you consider their users to be effectively "locked in" as far as their content is concerned. People fail to realize just how much they have vested in a simple comment sometimes. Considering thousands of them brings to light a wholly unimaginable problem if they are lost into the bowels of Disqus.

It is fairly obvious (via the tail of the comment url's) that Disqus is using this content for their site SEO and not to help the resident blogs. I shudder to think that this might be some Machiavellian attempt to "scrape" and utilize content for Disqus purpose, but what other reasons exist?

Their proprietary user login and profile are again, walking disasters if you think about user friendliness and this being "locked in" aspect of data and residency. JS-Kit, which ironically I put beneath Disqus initially, offers OpenID and etc, as well as a transparent monetization scheme. People really want transparency Robert ...you know this. What happens when Disqus wants to charge 5 bucks for this service (and they will)? The "opt out" scenario for users will not be pretty. If they choose to dump Disqus, they will loose potentially tons of data and comments to the Disqus data base.

So, you can see why I started this "War and Peace" of a comment. Robert, you are one of the best....how come this stuff is not resident in the evaluation'? There are so many other questions out there in thiis area. I know I have sent you 5 emails asking you to review or look at JS-Kit refinements and partnerships. My mail headings are just not that unnoticeable. Disqus has some big problems that not many are talking about. KIT and the others have their issues as well, but at least in the case of JS-Kit ...it is easy to see where the money and data go.

Always,

Phil Butler

This is a very insightful article David. I was one one the fist to write about Disqus, and I must say I was initially impressed. However, Dan and his crew have sort of let me down in several areas. The original platform was extremely promising, but of late several issues have come to light.

Some of these are highlighted by the intuitive readers here, but for the record here are some "real" issues:

1) proprietary login = lock-in: disqus has a proprietary login. this means that a blogger/web site encourages it's users create an identity within disqus. If the site chooses to remove disqus in the future then all of the identities disappear. If the site uses other web services then it's
visitors will have multiple logins for one site. Both instances are a disaster.

2) Proprietary visitor profile: All of the data created in the disqus profile is locked into disqus. It cannot be accessed by other services or the visitor. Again, if the site adds other services then the visitor would have to re-upload the same data [avatar, name, etc]. This is a complete
waste of effort forced on the visitor - both the site and visitor cannot exit disqus without losing all of their profile data.

3) Monetization: Disqus is a for profit business. so where is the monetization model? Since disqus bloggers logins, visitor profile data, and community pages they are locked into a business model that is undefined. what if disqus starts showing ads on the community pages and the blogger disagrees? what if they start charging a monthly fee? What if they start a destination site around comments and charge the blogger for referral traffic [don't think this
can happen? ask the sites that started using the "free" powerreviews service and then had to compete with buzzillions, or bazarvoice, etc.] Without a clear path for earning money and simultaneously being locked-in means that sites take a big risk when deploying disqus.

In effort at full transparency, these points are all straight from the horse's mouth at JS-Kit Khris Loux. I have close relationships with virtually every startup launched in the last two years and the good news for your readers is that Khris is not wrong. Disqus is a fairly powerful platform, but though I predicted it would overshadow KIT in the long term..even I was wrong. Loux and his team are efforting open source and transparency in the most credible ways. Disqus has a model that does not appear to have the user's interest in mind.

Regardless of how much we like an innovation, we must look at the vision and direction behind it. JS-Kit uses OpenID and allows full disclosure and sharing of their monetization plan and scheme. If appearances were everything, then no one would use another comment platform other than KIT. Yes, I work for them, but I also work for some of the best in the business and hand selected them as entities I wanted to be behind.

If you look at the innovation, service, ideology and long term merit of Disqus versus JS-Kit with any depth perception at all ...the evaluation is quite pat.

Please let me know if you have any questions or issues and I will always help. Again, a very perceptive and valid argument going on here.

Always,

Phil Butler

HI - All registered users are eligible to win. Billy , I have like this platform from the start. Second Brain has the most potential of any aggregation type site.

Nicole, as always and excellent post. I wrote about JS-Kit on several occasions and found it to be the most clean and innovative set of widgets of the type.

Since working more closely with Khris and his team, I have discovered even more innovation and rather fantastic collaborative aspects to this company.

The score widget is but one of a whole range of simple yet productive tools that can be deployed and actually help people. You know that I have been on the collaboration scheme for some time, and it is great to find the best writers, the best blogs and the best companies finally trying to realize the dream of Web 2.0. I know your readers who have blogs will love some of these upcomming tools and the Score widget too.

Cheers to Pete and you Kirsten for continuing to bring the very best to people. Always - Phil

Robert,

As always, top notch insight. I wonder at what we might call "the cart before the horse" syndrome." In integrating all these services Google has done something fantastico, but should these services not be focused on the quality of data involved rather than how to "migrate" a beer to someone from Facebook to Twitter?

I think that if we begin a discourse on this issue, then perhaps we will have some data to traverse the web with. Not to seem to critical, but should we not focus some on taking this Web to the next level?

Always,

Phil

Well, played fair as usual :) Only to find the rest of the known world drinking beer at the finish line. LMAO

Uh, I think he meant the technology, not the IPO :)

If that is the case, which it appears to be from the text. Here is the ultra simplified explanation for the 20 buckaroos and the Andalusian Pony.

Blinkx combines traditional metadata indexing, voice recognition, semantic coding and search to provide fast and relevant video searches.

See trackback later for the intermediate version of the stoned pony winner. :)

Now I realize why I use the word "entity" so much, I have been sucked into the BS 2.0 zone.

I mean "compelling" Web 2.0 "entity", with the most "innovative" "architecture" is a nice way of saying: I am compelled to vomit if this Web 2.0 BS does not transform the 2007 version of an Internet chat room with video into something new soon. :)

They are equally immoral in that they prey on our perceived desire. Both elements attract people because of basic self need and desire. I guess Freud would classify them a pseudosexaul morays taken to the extreme or something. Who's looking for Mom and Dad? If Oedipus were alive he would be on Myspace that may settle it. :)

I would have given a hundred bucks to see that. I would have been the one back in the entrance laughing until I choked. :)

Discourse and debate is one great thing about Web 2.0. However, the validity of Web 2.0 is in question in so many areas now.

Hell, we can't even agree on a bad guy when we are apparently see one in action.

Google is wonderful and perfect, Digg is the place for news (whoooaaahahahaha!), MySpace is a community like a quaint little village in the Swiss Alps, and YouTube is the Web 2.0 equivalent of "I Love Freaking Lucy."

"Ricky, Ricky Fred has got his hand up my dress! Don't worry Luceeee, Fred is our neighbor!"

It is true, the relative allegations should be examined. Perhaps a boycott of Amazon until they either produce incontrovertible evidence that mean old Statsaholic harmed them?

The blososphere can be the jury. Give them 1 week to present the evidence, let Pete be the judge and we come back here and decide.

Now that would be Web 2.0!

If a company cannot handle some good competition, it is likely a weak freak of nature. I agree, just have a beer and talk it over.

Web 2.0 is supposed to be about collaboration and connectedness, where is the example from Alexa here?

LOL, A master at work. Slow down Pete, you may start to transform into some Xerxes looking demigod looking dude with 400 body piercings. LMAO

All that I ask is that you kneel before me and you shall rule all of Web 2.0! :)

You actually did a great job Pete, at least acknowledging the gray area about commentary.

I am sad to say that many are not nearly as polished as you. I admire that, especially given how easy it would be to sensationalize things.

I just read one where the blogger was more moved by Web 2.0's influence on the event than the actual horror of the event itself apparently.

I am sure that the people will appreciate all the genuine concern, but unfortunately they will also be appalled at some of the obtuse behavior.

Who's got time to date? My monitor has a blonde wig on it :)