Disqus - Latest Comments for Jeromy

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:00:34 -0000

We often, proudly quote Paul, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Yet, do we not believe and teach that "orthodox" Christian belief is required for salvation? Isn't belief a work...all be it a mental one, not physical one? I also find it ironic that Paul's next breath says that we were "created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Yet we put so much more emphasis on right-belief than we do on right-works. My question is this: Would God prefer a person who believed rightly or acted rightly?

Re: The Desire For Grace

Jeromy — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:33:12 -0000

Jonathan, I really appreciate your heart. There is a sensitivity, humility and grace in your words. Thanks for pulling this song out of the closet, as it were. Those last lines really resonated with me:

Forgetting
All the hurt inside you've learned to hide so well.
Pretending
Someone else can come and save me from myself.
I can't be who you are.
I can't be who you are.

God has given me the freedom to be the person who he is making me to be, whatever the cost. I can't be someone else or live up to their expectations any more. I need to remember and stop pretending. And while doing so, love and embrace those who don't understand...yet.

Thanks for your words.
From one recovering thief and Pharisee to another...
JJ

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:26:46 -0000

Raquel,

Sometimes their faith led to healing, sometimes it was their friend's faith, sometimes they had no faith and their healing was simply based on Jesus' mercy. As I read Jesus' words and parables, I see a high value on fruit and works, not just faith or belief. In fact, there is much talk about fruitless trees being withered and cut down and thrown into the fire. Didn't the religious leaders of Jesus' day feel they were chosen too? Didn't they feel as if they "believed rightly" based on scripture, correct doctrine, and tradition? Didn't Jesus come and show them a higher paradigm? Are we too proud to consider the possibility that after 2,000 years of religiously following Jesus, that we might be off a little in our belief and practices?

I too feel that it is all about grace and because of His grace, it compels us (or at least should) to do good works. I fear though that there is a message of easy believe-ism being taught...that all you need to do is perform an mental task of believing that Jesus is God, ask him into your heart (whatever that means) and whamo!__entry into heaven is yours, of how you lived towards others from that point on. That you can literally get into heaven by the seat of your pants, simply because you believed in the correct doctrinal statement. It is almost like a barcode is adhered to your brain and Jesus is up in heaven with a scanner, scanning all humanity for this "belief" barcode...if you have it, you're in; if not, you're condemned––regardless if you loved and lived a more Christlike life that those with the correct mental barcodes.

Now obviously, I am overstating the case (though by not much, I fear). But I think that we have swung full-tilt in the other direction of the faith/works pendulum. This could be because of our Reformation roots. But as I read the words and look at the actions of Jesus––the one whom we call Lord and whom we follow, who offered grace, forgiveness, healing, restoration to sinners, and to whom I am forever indebted to with my life––I see a different picture and message than easy believe-ism or predestination. I see a God who is looking for people who will follow his ways, his teaching, and answer his call to discipleship and love-living.

As you mentioned in you analogy, It is because of our love for him that we love. But isn't it also about our love for the one who asked you to kiss his butt? Is he alone not reason enough to love him?

At least love-works done towards others, regardless of "right believe", loves others. But "right belief" that does nothing, does, well, nothing.

I fear we too easily condemn "wrong-belief-love" that at least does something. Perhaps by embracing and linking arms with those who are loving "wrongly" (if there's such a thing) we can help them see why we love and, maybe, they too will fall in love with our husband, Jesus.

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:41:52 -0000

Verity,

I agree that faith without works is dead. I fear that most of our message is this: though it is dead faith, God will still accept it for entrance into heaven. That dead faith is OK, but dead works is condemned. With dead faith, you can enter by-the-skin-of-your-teeth–all be it with out much hope of heavenly rewards. But dead works (the thing that actually DOES something), sorry, you get to spend an eternity being tortured. This just doesn't sit right with me or what I read about Jesus. I agree, we need both faith in Jesus (an undying trust and reliance) and loving works as we follow his teaching and example.

Regarding filthy rags...sure, compared to God's perfection they are such. But goodness and love is still goodness and love, regardless who does them. When a child is saved from the ravages of starvation and adopted into a loving home, it matters not what that family believes to the child...love and goodness was still given. The Jesus I read in the gospels cared VERY deeply about what was actually DONE. I hope we can extend grace and even join arms with those who are loving and caring for others, regardless what they believe. The notion that a non-christian cannot do ANYTHING good doesn't seem to align with what I observe in the world and see in Jesus' life and teachings.

I hope we can accept ours and other's "filthy rags" as good, though not as good as Gods.

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:44:46 -0000

Thank you for sharing those stats and the quote from Mother Theresa. I really appreciate and hear your heart...it is encouraging. Three things.

First, I think part of the focus on loving others is to try to rediscover that perhaps Loving God and Loving Others isn't as dualistic as we have thought...As Jesus said, what you do to them you do to me. Perhaps, when we are loving others––in the way and name of Jesus––we are loving God too. Then whatever we do, whether in word or deed, we do it all in the name of Jesus, and when they see our good works, we will shine like stars in the sky and they will praise our Father in heaven.

Second, I believe this shift is also due to the Word-Overdose the church has given the world. Preaching, signs, radio, books, lectures, education, tracts, tv...and on and on we speak. I think the power in Jesus' life was that his words was equal to his actions. Our words have WAY out-weighed our love towards those not part of our camp. I don't think the solution is to necessarily lessen our words, but to focus on increasing our love-actions. As it says, "love covers over a multitude of sins." We have not done so great in the category of loving our brother, and so our multitude of sins has not been overlooked by a watching world. My hunch is that as we focus on loving, deeds, works...whatever the term is we use...that we might earn the right for our words (which are many...even mine right now) to be heard. They are watching and waiting to see an army of Jesus followers to start living out the love they see in Jesus. Until then, I really don't think it matters to them whose name we are talking in, not too many people are listening.

Third, regarding judgement...I'll leave that up to God to decide. His grace is way to big for me to comprehend and judgement is way to important for me to decide. God has called me to help form disciples (not win converts) and to learn to love myself, others, and Him...which all blend together at times. That is enough for my possible 80 years of life to grapple with and live out.

Thank you for your words.

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:14:31 -0000

Raquel,

I would offer that it was more than Israel's unbelief, but also their lack of love towards those whom they were condemning (see http://jeromyj.blogspot.com/2007/10/living-outs... for a deeper discussion of this).

I also agree that we need to really make disciples of Jesus and his way with the "baby-christians" - and that it begins with giving them a vision of a mission worth living for that goes beyond volunteering in the church nursery.

I personally know quite a few families (both xian and non-xian) who have adopted (both domestically and internationally) and they and the child both have attached to each other. You're right that it doesn't always happen. Love is messy and we all love imperfectly. Even with perfect love, like God's, we cannot ultimately change people or force them to do anything. They must choose.

Thank you for sharing your heart. I wish we could sit down over a cup of coffee to be shaped by each other through true dialogue. I think we'd find ourselves agreeing on more than we might think. I hear your passion for Christ, the lost, and making disciples.

Blessings to you!

Re: The Problem of Heresy

Jeromy — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:37:16 -0000

Raquel,

Too funny...Sorry for the confusion...I should have wrote it, X-ian (shorthand for Christian). I smiled picturing you looking up Chinese words online :-).

Re: The Soundtrack Of My Life

Jeromy — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:21:56 -0000

Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog.

Anything by Rich Mullins.

Re: The Problem of Certainty

Jeromy — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:01:39 -0000

Do you guys need a middle child to step in? ;-)

Re: The God’s Aren’t Angry Review

Jeromy — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:40:19 -0000

Do you think he was saying that Jesus' work on the cross, or reconciliation, or peace, was applied across-the-board to all of humanity (reconciling all things) regardless of anything we do or believe? That our response to this once-and-for-all act of God is celebration and a life of love through the peace and love Jesus gave? That humanities guilt is gone...we have peace with God?

Re: The God’s Aren’t Angry Review

Jeromy — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:34:48 -0000

Yea, people are always free to reject God regardless of his forgiveness of them. The beauty is when people realize that God is not mad at them, that they do not have to appease or please him...they have peace.

Jonathan, well said: "our response does not define His." We like to think it does.

Raquel, thanks for sharing that story and book. Yes, very cool and encouraging.

Question: Is there a chance for repentance and reception of God's grace & forgiveness after death? Or does our physical death have the final say and power?

Re: The God’s Aren’t Angry Review

Jeromy — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:42:06 -0000

"We would deserve hell for one moment of delighting in something other than God who is supremely worthy of all glory and honor and wisdom and power. We are missing the awesomeness of God"...

Is God's awesomeness, glory, wisdom, power, honor only expressed (or in the least, expressed best) through his wrath, anger, and judgement?

Re: The God’s Aren’t Angry Review

Jeromy — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:13:54 -0000

The only verse I can find that directly discusses "one death then judgment" is Hebrews 9:27 - "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that face judgement," At first blush, perhaps it is saying what it seems to be saying, but when viewed in context, there is more to it. It is surrounded by the Blood of Christ and His sacrifice, once and for all...(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%209-10;&version=31;)

Is there a "judgement" that can lead to repentance?

Are God's hands died by our death? "Sorry, I'd love to extend grace, but you died." Would not death then still have a "sting"? In other words, are we saying that our death has more power than God and his ability to extend grace?

Can't we still deny him even to his face, thus being self-damned?

Will not knee bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord? Our very criteria for salvation by faith?

I don't know the answers to these questions. And yep, Raquel, I have a bunch of these stored up inside of me. I am rejoicing that I can ask them. That I can really dig into God; his Word; his character; his heart and just try to listen. I am jazzed to allow his word and Spirit to speak to me, to really listen to what it is saying. I bring my own crap and human understanding to the table, but I still try to listen.

IF the answer to some of these questions is YES, then I am more in awe and love with God than ever. Then it really wouldn't be about us at all!! It would be all about him and his decision to extend peace. It would all be through Jesus, just in such a BIGGER way than we could have ever imagined! That even after death, he loves his creation enough to forgive (or let them know in personal, face-to-face way that they have already been forgiven). That, yes, we could still deny and hate him, even after death, but after fully knowing him and his grace, who would choose to? Some perhaps.

What would then be the value of living for him prior to death? I ask that too. Personally, I love living for him and would not have it any other way. I love being used by him as people discover his greatness and choose him now! What joy it is to love and be loved!! What a privilege it is to be a part of his Kingdom now, and in the ages to come!! Maybe the weeping and gnashing of teeth is out of their remorse for not seeing, or even rejecting, Jesus while they lived on earth...

But again, God is just now bringing these questions to the surface. Which is why I need your voice and community so we can learn and grow together.

Re: Fire Your Pastor???

Jeromy — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:35:10 -0000

Jon, can you be my idol? :-) Very articulate and well said.

Re: Fire Your Pastor???

Jeromy — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:56:15 -0000

juniorhat...LOL

Re: The God’s Aren’t Angry Review

Jeromy — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:38:29 -0000

Davie, thank you for your thoughtful post.

We all agree that our sin is despicable and that we deserve nothing from God.

We also agree that Jesus' death on the cross, through his blood, made the way possible for peace and a relationship with God.

I think where the differences lie is just how far reaching his death was, the degree to which "salvation" is about him and not about us, and whether any action on our part (works, belief, etc...) triggers the application of God's forgiveness through Jesus or if it applies regardless of anything we do.

Some sense that Jesus' blood and forgiveness has NOTHING to do with us and EVERYTHING to do with him. That when we do believe we are forgiven, we are saved from our life of guilt, dread, and fear and freed to fully walk in our previously-declared but just-now-realized state of forgiveness.

In a sense, that his work and declaration of forgiveness is MUCH more powerful than we could ever think or imagine.

Re: Just Too Funny

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 01:25:41 -0000

I chuckled, Jen didn't find it too funny. But then I also found Dumb and Dumber hysterical and she nearly fell asleep. So, coffee...Peets...early morning...next week?

Re: Just Too Funny

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:55:21 -0000

Jon...I'm chuckling at your comment :-) Yea, D&D is a classic..."Tic-Tac, sir?" Apple vs. PC...now that's funny.

Re: The Message People Hear

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:08:33 -0000

This is precisely where I find myself, feeling what your friend is feeling. Yet, I find myself not too burdened by it...actually, in an ironic way, set free because of it. There is still a cloud of doubt placed on me by some family and the church culture. Though I highly value education, with two kids under 7, a full-time job, and no money, an M-Div to answer God's call on my life is not happening. But when I look to Jesus and what he is calling me to (himself and others), my step quickens and my smile returns.

Re: The Emerging Church Traditions

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:23:21 -0000

I have a love-hate relationships with traditions. This weekend at a funeral gave me a picture of how traditions are both important adn powerful:

At the end of the memorial service, 6 solders marched up on stage carrying a folded American flag. They proceeded to unfold it and then fold it back up in the all familiar triangle shape—military style. We then followed them to the courtyard of the church where there were four more soldiers standing at attention, three of whom were holding M-14s (assault rifles). One called out orders and the other three obeyed, swinging their guns around, aiming and firing three times into the air. The sound echoed in the courtyard. Then silence. The awe and respect was deeply apparent. Another soldier, standing in the corner, swung out a bugle and “snapped” it to his mouth. Three notes later, not a dry eye existed. The soldier continued playing the hauntingly beautiful and universally known tune to honor an American soldier who has passed—Taps.

I held myself together during the whole memorial service until those notes played. The emotional power of that tune, the heritage it holds, just melted me and I wept. We were witnessing a heritage and tradition that far preceded us and will far proceed us. This man, Harry Hallman, our grandfather, was being honored in a way few are, and the witness of it broke us in its presence. After the bugle stopped, the commanding officer turned to the family, extended the flag and spoke words of honor before surrendering it. Those who were not weeping, were now.

There is something to be said about tradition and ceremony when done properly, in respect and honor. It can move the soul and cause us to weep in the presence of him who is being honored.

Re: Dealing With Depression

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 21:18:53 -0000

Jonathan, I am so sorry. Thank you for opening your heart. Somehow your raw expression gives me permission to go deeper, not only into myself to really feel and into God's love, but also with brothers and sisters like you.

Your friend, Jeromy

Re: A Vision of Eternity

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:05:01 -0000

That God will "come through in the end." Hmmm, what a picture. A total redemption.

Re: Call Your Dad

Jeromy — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:17:20 -0000

He sounds like a good man. I am sad with you, Jonathan. What kind of wine do you drink...seriously?

Re: Billy Graham and Rob Bell

Jeromy — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:19:01 -0000

I think Rob Bell is going to be the next.......Rob Bell.

A unique person who is using his particular story, personality and gifts to help people realize God and his God's Kingdom. It's refreshing for me to see a more "artistic" approach in conveying God's message.

Re: Redeeming The Church

Jeromy — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:51:44 -0000

That the church would be willing to loose itself in order to find itself, or Jesus said, loose its life in order to gain life.

Re: Redeeming The Church

Jeromy — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:00:08 -0000

What would you redeem Jonathan?

Re: Redeeming The Church

Jeromy — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:36:49 -0000

No you don't...no cop outs...choose one thing. Nice try though!

Re: Redeeming The Church

Jeromy — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:57:41 -0000

Jon, thanks for sharing that story....

Re: Redeeming The Church

Jeromy — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:40:51 -0000

Maybe for some, but I have no ego...... ;-) lol

Re: Redeeming The Church 2

Jeromy — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:20:33 -0000

I'm not sure if their point was to so much dasmantle and discredit Church-as-we-know-it, but to show and help us come to grips with the roots of what we do. THEN, if we choose to continue, at least we know that it is a cultural choice to do so, not a Biblical one. We can error at looking/mimicking at the methods of the early-church and ignoring the missional/cultural heart of it.

I think the question is, how do we biblically follow Jesus as his church in today's culture where the church-institution is being rejected and pushed to the margins? A what-is-Jesus-doing question rather than solely a what-would-Jesus-do (I think this one is important too as we are to look at his revealed words and way and obey).

If there are things we can gleam from the early church's struggle in the margins, lets do it...but lets not worship it.

Re: Interesting Stuff 7

Jeromy — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:48:35 -0000

Do you have the link for Bill Kinnon's post?

Re: Interesting Stuff 7

Jeromy — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:51:45 -0000

Jon Holmes: I look forward to your post/s on Jesus' preoccupation with his Father......

He did seem rather singularly focused, didn't he.

Re: Why Multicultural Is Good

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:14:32 -0000

I have found that it also gives me the opportunity to listen and learn aspects about myself, God, life and faith that I would never have known had it not been for their presence in my life and my approaching them as a learner and friend. It raises the question in my heart, how can I expect them to listen and learn from me and about God as I know him if I don't genuinely do the same?

Re: Exploring The Idea Of Freedom

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:36:30 -0000

Freedom vs. control. I hear you regarding our kids. I have a lot of my dad's gruff-parenting still residing in me and popping out more than I'd like.

By the way, when you reach the top of the Matterhorn, there is a zip line that Tinkerbell zips down every night. You may want to check the weight limit though or it might be your last expression of freedom...I somehow think you weigh a bit more than Tinkerbell. But if you do decide to zip, let me know so I can get it on video...might as well make some money off your death ;-)

Re: The Story of Stuff

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:17:46 -0000

Jen and I watched this video last night in bed. I loved her style and what she had to say. I totally rememeber Bush telling us after 911 to keep spending, then he gave us that tax return to re-invest into the "golden arrow". However, he also encouraged us to pray, etc.

What are some ways that you and your family are trying to go against the machine?

By the way, how did you your pillow feel last night? ;-)

Re: In The Words of The Who

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:23:03 -0000

Hear, Hear.

Re: Jesus Never Saw A Prostitute

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:50:28 -0000

I never thought of it that way before. Thanks for sharing that nugget...

Re: That Darn Ego

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:30:00 -0000

What a redeeming reminder of love. I still find myself struggling with that often. I need words like this to remind me when I forget (or don't listen), "Jeromy, I love you and have forgiven you...I love you...I love you...I love you..."

Great post. In fact, I applaud you! ;-)

(By the way, you used Damn...I'm taking you off my bloggroll)

Re: The Liminal Problem

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:53:30 -0000

Your question has shadowed me all day. The phrase that has been echoing in my mind has been this book title, "Between the Dreaming and Coming True". That is where I feel I am and we are. Almost like a trapeze artist letting go of one bar but not quite grasping the other. Ron Lagerstrom, my spiritual director, says to enjoy this space, this time; too not rush it but view it as a gift. It is in this space of air that the magic appears. It is in the flying––between the bars––that the dance of grace begins. But I for one, sense the need to begin dream-experimenting. Where the dreaming walks with the coming true and the coming true glides with the dreaming. That as we experiment with the dream, a place where people help each other "put into practice" right thinking about following Jesus (thanks Aaron) comes true. And ultimately, when it comes down to it, we HAVE to follow the dream that Jesus, our Lord, has placed in the core of our hearts. To do otherwise, would be the sin.

And as you said, Jonathan, "This lack of an answer allows many to simply dismiss the conversation. And they can if they want to. They don’t have to go down this road." They need to follow their dream, and us, ours. May it come true......here as it is in heaven.

Re: The Liminal Problem

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:55:00 -0000

Between the Dreaming and Coming True. We are in the "and".

Re: The Liminal Problem

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:28:08 -0000

Give me a jingle and let's dream. Unfortunately, that title is already taken, "Between the Dreaming and the Coming True" by Benson.

Re: The Liminal Problem

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:36:19 -0000

Grace - I like how you put it as simply steps in the journey. So true. I figure we can only dream so much in the mind and classroom. Eventually we need to bring our God-dreams into the lab and the field. As we do, our dreams will alter, change, and evolve, hopefully giving birth to life-giving dreams that live, move and breathe.

Re: Thank You

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:26:37 -0000

My name is Jeromy Johnson and I read your blog because you use the word, Damn. Also because you're a heretic. ;-)

Re: Help Identifying Categories

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:10:47 -0000

Are these categories just for those who associate/ed with the church?

The issue with just focusing on those who associate with the church is that most of them a fairly happy with the modern expression of church...that is why they go. It is those who are not going (the remaining 85% of the population) that are needing a different expression.

If we take into account those who never bought into the church or have given up on the church (not even looking for an alternative)...those who have always been OK with Jesus just not the church (my dad for example)...that "Exiters/Never Entered" category would be massive!! Perhaps if category four created another type of place, these would consider returning. But for now, they have NO desire to darken the doors of any church.

Then I would add rejected clergy (the too radicals) to the mix—perhaps they fit into a "Thrown-Outers" category. 2-5%

Just my two cents...

Re: Help Identifying Categories

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:22:26 -0000

Mak—"the resigned"...sigh, I too have resigned myself to be resigned. I've tried, now I am just waiting and listening for Him to lead. I have no desire to become a clergy-slave-to-the-system again. What happened for you to be resigned to being resigned?

Re: A Church without a church

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:23:00 -0000

Joe, our church is currently going through its yearly "money" talk and next week is the week on "percentage" giving. I wrote a post on this idea and some of its historical roots in the Medeival Church: http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/wh... .

Some of us realize that they have to do this because of the religious system they operate in—which is fine. But we are trying to re-think of a system where 80-90% can go back into missional and redemptive purposes with the remaining % covering the very low operating costs.

I agree that "giving-tithing" is broken and needs to be redeemed—once more.

Re: Help Identifying Categories

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:40:47 -0000

Mak the Resigned (sounds like a cool Knights Templar name),

I posted this on your site as well:

Hearing you recall your story makes me cringe. It is one of those things that people who have been in official-church-ministry (whatever that is) just nod and say, "Say no more...I understand." I have posted some of my story here: http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/about/my-stor...

We were laid-off by a church (I have my suspicions that there was more too it than just money...hehe [as you say]). In addition to that, let's just say that during this season of "transition" and discovery, we have been rejected by more than our share of churches, a few of whom we had gotten down to the final interview before they discovered our "dirty-little-secret" as emerging sympathizers. But, as the dust settles, and we embrace who God is making us into (and calling us to be), we see God at work creating something new and Re-Formed. That said, it is still hard to be pissed on as a "heretic". But, whateva...

Blessings....
~Jeromy~

Re: McFranchising The Church

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:26:03 -0000

Wow...And here I thought the CEO model of the pastor fell short. Christ-Filet anyone?

Re: McFranchising The Church

Jeromy — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:12:42 -0000

LOL. Jon, there is no symbol swearing allowed. Only raw, real swearing...

Re: My Friend “Blank” The Homosexual

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:33:50 -0000

It really saddens me…as if homosexuality is worst than other sins. If just happens to be one WE don’t, nor probably ever will, struggle with so its easy for us to judge. Why don't see those kind of hate-filled responses to materialism, pride, or gluttony. One sees what our greed is doing to the rest of the world and then looks at how we judge the gay community......sickens me.

We have a LOOONG way to go in healing our neighborly relationships with the homosexual community that we have demonized, hurt, and marginalized. It has been a prayer of mine for a while that God would bring a friendship my way with a homosexual in hopes of some empathy and reconciliation.

Thanks for sharing your heart.

Re: The Emerging Pastor Quandary

Jeromy — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:55:54 -0000

Jonathan...I too remember this quote and it resonates deeply with me, as you know. Thanks for making the connection.

Dora, thank you for sharing a bit of your story. I share your and your husband's feelings (even [almost] throwing a book).

Re: The Church Meeting

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:26:53 -0000

The church committee.

Re: The Church Meeting

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:47:35 -0000

Yea...and just wait until your friend gets nominated as the Chair of the Greeting Committee, which---last I heard---is a life-term commitment.

Re: The Temptation To Strike Back

Jeromy — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:18:25 -0000

I think you're wrong and what you said is just stupid! And here's a verse to proove it... Seriously though, thanks for the post and the reminder. The best line: "it is doubtful that relationship is developed through a punch" - Well said.

Re: Compassion For My Friends Who Were Enemies

Jeromy — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:16:37 -0000

Thanks for sharing that personal story. I have a number of memories like that and I realize that for every one I remember there are probably five that remain buried, unremembered, yet still shaping me and my responses. I wonder what Tony and Shannon are doing today...what their life looks like as adults...I wonder if they even recall that day in the park...

Re: New Conspirators - Thursday Night

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:10:58 -0000

Hey Brother, glad to hear you are enjoying your time up their in Wash. To say I wish I was there would be an understatement but I will experience it vicariously through your blog. You and I will definitely need to sit down over Peets so I can hear, not just read, about it. I really hope the Lord enriches you and guides you through you time shared the fellow "conspirators"...see you when you get home.

~ Jeromy

Re: Mike Foster on Restoration

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:09:29 -0000

Thanks for this Jonathan. I am going to give Mike a listen.

So true: "we’re not running in when people are falling apart." But when it comes to pastors, it gets worse because we don't see them as people—as human. They are super-Christian perfect teachers and leaders without fault or doubt, and damned (literally) are the many pastors who dare question or break the portrayed "perfect" mold...but don't get me going 'cause I might get riled up. Fuck!

Re: Why Is Emerging Bad?

Jeromy — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:15:10 -0000

"in most of the world, emerging is appreciated." Thanks for bringing in this perspective. So true!

Re: Why Is Emerging Bad?

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:14:58 -0000

Monachus Bellator? Who is this guy? And WHAT did he just say?! Sounds like a pretty cool guy to me (even if he looks like a NASCAR driver in his picture)!!

Re: Mike Foster on Restoration

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:49:33 -0000

~Steve~

When I read words like Mike's and recall the incredible painful conversations I have had with "fallen" and "resigned" pastors who have been cast out and shunned; when I am stunned into silence at the lack of grace, love, and forgiveness from those who "follow" Jesus' way; when I am sitting across from a table from a former pastor-superman who has absolutely no—ZERO—friends left from his old church (where people used to flock to him) because they found out he was a—gasp!—sinner; when all those things plus some of my own personal experience come to mind, there is not other word besides 'fuck' that can express it my deep anger and frustration.

I am sorry, but I offer no apologies for using it...I hope you understand. If you don't, I understand where you are coming from. BTW, because it is such a powerful, emotionally charged word, I RARELY use it. So the very fact that it is used here should give you a SMALL indication of how strongly I feel.

Blessings!

Re: Mike Foster on Restoration

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:29:57 -0000

Regarding my choice of words, do you think God was put-off or lost any sleep because I expressed myself in such a manner?

I am certain that my integrity and who I am before God—a child of his whom he loves without end—was not affected.

I understand where you are coming from.

Re: Book Review - The New Christians Part 1

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:48:09 -0000

Sorry bud, no readie your posts until I readie the book. ;-)

Re: A God Who Always Sides With Me

Jeromy — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:00:37 -0000

Because we all see God in "part" and worship and defend him as if we see him in "whole". In a sense, we all worship a partial 'image' of God. It is when we declare this 'image' as God and declare that anyone who sees a different 'image' as the enemy. It is when God—in our mind—no longer has SUBSTANTIAL mystery. It is when we think we nailed God to the peg board and declare, "There he is." It is when we take what WE BELIEVE about God as being God. It is when we worship a being that we have created with our 3-pound brains as if it were God in his entirety.

Basically speaking, it is when we worship our idols (whether created out of rock, wood, or theology) instead of letting God be God, and us be human.

Re: Missional Synchroblog

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:36:30 -0000

I can't play violin . . . but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

Re: Spiritual Formation 2

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:24:33 -0000

Painfully true.

Re: The Big Empty Box

Jeromy — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:12:38 -0000

One place comes to mind: A theater (not movie).

The funny thing is that most modern day Christians look at the big European catholic cathedrals and think, "What a waste of money, what were they thinking? Think of the poor they could have fed!" Then some of those same people wake up Sunday morning to go to a modern multi-million dollar building without a second thought. The irony.

I wonder what those who follow in our foot steps centuries from now will think about our cathedrals?

Re: Top 50 Possible Reasons Why You’re Not Emergent

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:21:03 -0000

That's not funny at all. To lump non-absolute truth and the debil in the same list as Apple is just plain heretical. After all, God obviously designed the world using a MAC.

Re: Meeting God Where He’s Already Working

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:55:26 -0000

I don't think I ever tire of your story of love-discovery. Thanks for sharing once more!

Re: Top 50 Possible Reasons Why You’re Not Emergent

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:40:23 -0000

I would offer the core is how much room one allows for people with differences of opinion/beliefs, and if we place "orthodoxy" over unity and relationship. See: http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/go...

Re: We Are First Human

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:54:29 -0000

The humility in your words is very encouraging and convicting (in the good sense of the word). Words like "It was a sad commentary on the brokenness of my own soul." & "It’s this bent of self-determination that produces conflict and argument." & "And when I really looked at these judgments, they were stupid. If I was being honest, they were full of fear." & "And if I kept up the BS of the judgment, I would likely miss who he really was."

So in the future, when you share, can you pull your punches some? Actually, on second thought, those are the kind of punches my spirit needs. Keep them coming...

Re: Top 50 Possible Reasons Why You’re Not Emergent

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:31:18 -0000

One of my mentors and good friend is very Reformed in his theology, yet he holds it very generously and considers himself a friend of emergent. What I mean is this: I think the main dividing issue is how much room do we allow for other opinions/theologies? This is true whether you are Reformed, Baptism, Catholic, etc... I am sure there are many others who consider themselves reformed and a friend of the emerging church as well. In fact, the Presbyterian denomination is founded on reformed theology (all be it not hyper-Calvinism) and it is one of the denominations really embracing and experimenting with the emerging church ways in our postmodern society. I don't think it is fair to lump all reformed-theology-types as outside of emergent and in for a disappointment. Just because you feel that way does not mean every reformed-theology-type does.

Re: Top 50 Possible Reasons Why You’re Not Emergent

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:31:53 -0000

The previous comment was in reply to Nicole's.

Re: My Guilty Pleasure

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:22:46 -0000

Raquel, I think I just peed reading your pleasures. I am still laughing! Chex mix EVERY night, in bed? I'm afraid to ask which flavor.

Re: I’m A Subversive Blog

Jeromy — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:55:19 -0000

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You're hard work has finally been noticed, and beyond that—honored! Your dirty little secret is out. Mr. Love-Subversive...hmmmm, nice ring to it. My friend, bask in the glory...you earned it!! LOL.

Re: Thoughts From The Cohort

Jeromy — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:39:25 -0000

For me, we have to recognize the fact that in most cases, the idea of full-time-paid-professional-ministry-pastoral-staff has created a huge division between clergy and laity, where the former gets to speak (among other things) and the latter sits and listens (or is given less 'spiritual' menial tasks). Having said that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with people getting paid for leadership. Has it and can it be abused? Sadly, yes.

Two things. If paid, the payment should not come with a bunch of strings attached. And two, I like the heart of what Paul said, though I have the right to receive payment from you, I choose not to for the sake of others and the gospel. To me, there are too many other "things" (mostly unspoken) that come with being paid in the traditional means by churches. I have no desire to be under a yoke of man induced slavery (but I am sure that statement stems from some of my own baggage).

Re: Thoughts From The Cohort

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:17:44 -0000

Kelli,

You said: "And this is why I come here not to criticize or stir up negativity, but maybe to point out some trees that those of you in the middle of the forest cannot see. As an outsider really, I can see the good in what you are trying to accomplish and I can also see things from a more worldly perspective. Why is it important to see things from a worldly perspective? Because isn’t it the world that we are called to minister to? Christians aren’t called to heal the healthy, but the hurt and the hurting. That’s my world."

Thank you for your perspective. You're right. It is a much needed, often neglected, and important perspective. Jesus did not call us to heal and just hang out with the "healthy" (as if any of us are really healthy), but the hurt and hurting. Your world is—and needs to be—our world too. Thank you for sharing your words and heart.

Blessings and love.
Jeromy

Re: His Love Endures Forever

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:38:17 -0000

You mean endure, like ENDURE? Forever, like FOREVER? Love, like LOVE? Or something else? Surely not: "His love endures forever." That's just crazy-talk, I tell you . . . crazy-talk.

Perhaps that's what makes it so beautiful.

Re: Redeeming The Tithe

Jeromy — Sat, 03 May 2008 18:07:15 -0000

I had never thought much about this passage before, that even with the tithe, there is an element of celebration to it (literally eating your tithe in his presence).

I was giving this some thought this morning. There are two former mega churches in the bay area whose numbers have dwindled so much that they choose to "merge" their two churches into one church. What is sad is this: It seems (I am making a judgment here) that the merge was mostly based on finances, "We don't have enough people (tithing) to pay the bills (mostly staff and building expenses) so lets us combine our people so we can make ends meat." When people are viewed as "giving units" (I have heard this terminology thrown around in church staff meetings) and the church is floundering in survival-mode, I fear that God's mission often gets placed on the back burner. In this case, it doesn't seem that "mission" was the driving force, but survival.

I long to see the tithe redeemed. Where 60-80% of our tithe is used for blessing and loving others in real, tangible and physical ways—making God's love visible with the money entrusted to us. May his kingdom come...

Re: The Real Question

Jeromy — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:36:34 -0000

What if we had the foreknowledge that not only would they say no, but that they would NEVER say YES? Would we still love them? Even more important, would we still remain in relationship with them? Be their friend? Stick by them? Or would we abandon them for a more "successful" project?

Perhaps real evangelism stems from the place of no expectation.

Re: Missional Synchroblog 2

Jeromy — Thu, 08 May 2008 22:05:11 -0000

Count me in (and now that I have found the dandy blog scheduler thingy I won't be late this time!).

Re: The Timelessness of Creation

Jeromy — Wed, 14 May 2008 23:40:33 -0000

Very insightful. Never thought of it this way before...the timelessness of nature. Perhaps the timelessness of nature is yet another example of God making all things new—constant restoration and rebirth. Death producing new life.

I find it very cool that God's creation is ever renewing and recreating itself. I believe even this sheds some light into God's heart.

Re: The Non-Religious Spiritual Affiliation

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 00:24:08 -0000

The Essenes, Pharisees, Zealots, Sadducees and other groups tried to align Jesus with their (or their enemies) camp. Jesus didn't bite the bait. He instead aligned himself with his Daddy's mission—solely.

I find it heart breaking that followers of Him have now created the very things he avoided.

Re: The Coolest Thing

Jeromy — Sun, 18 May 2008 22:02:24 -0000

or a clanging cymbal. But I think "bunk" gets the point across quite well. ;-)

Re: Who’s Your Tribe

Jeromy — Fri, 23 May 2008 10:25:29 -0000

Ugh.

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:39:32 -0000

We as humans are always trying to push and pull for a "balanced" God who doesn't teeter too far in one direction. When I hear Jesus' words and see his actions, there seems to be a hard slant towards a God who is ravenous towards the love of his kids (even his harsh words towards the religious leaders, I believe, were out of love for them). The God that Jesus seemed to paint was heavily unbalanced towards love. I think this, among other things, was what got him killed from a human perspective. The God that Jesus shed witness to flew in the face of religion's God and his words were seen as blasphemous. Not to mention, where love reigns, fear and power-control flee making it hard to maintain a religion and control people. Free people who rest in God's love are dangerous to any religious establishment. Jesus was...and still is.

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:31:37 -0000

Raquel - When I chastise my kids, it is out of my love for them.

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:26:29 -0000

Rick, You're correct. I make assumptions, I have biases, I come from a certain vantage point, I filter things through my limited understanding, I am simply a human trying to grasp a God who is not fully graspable or knowable. You're correct in saying I have assumptions, as do we all (I'm assuming). I'm Ok with that. I also agree that you are not seeing my presuppositions, and would suggest that you have your own set (again, an assumption of mine).

Regarding my children...you're right, there are sometimes I punish them out of selfishness and spite, and get angry because they are bothering me. Am I proud of that? No. Do I cease loving them? No. How much more so God. Does my heart break as a dad when I do not love them perfectly? Yep. Rightness? Justice? Training? Are these things incompatible with love?

Regarding David Crowder's song, that is how it spoke to me. How did it speak to you?

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:21:45 -0000

Raquel — "We are the creatED. Whatever God does is perfect. Whatever we do is not."

I couldn't agree with you more. God's love is perfect. Mine, not so much. So if I correct my children out of love, how much more so God. Or does God not correct out of love?

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:19:59 -0000

Perhaps we are just veiwing love differently. I see God's love as encompassing all of those things you mentioned. You see it as seperate, just one item in the list of God's attributes, if I am understanding you.

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Jeromy — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:39:46 -0000

Thanks, that helps clarify what you believe.

Re: Emerging Missional Converts

Jeromy — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:09:56 -0000

Jonathan, perhaps because I know you (in the personal, non-electronic sense) and have experienced the fruit that a missional community such as Thrive can offer, but I didn't sense a tone of judgement in this post. I even re-read it to see if I missed something. It seems more like you shared thoughts about what you've seen, the differences between the two, and shared your opinion. Perhaps using "a pastor" in place of "Mark Driscoll" in the last sentence could have made your point without singling him out, per se. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic. It is obvious you have thought this through. How the vacation going?

Re: Emerging Missional Converts

Jeromy — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:23:33 -0000

Raquel, am I allowed to say that I agree with you? It finally happened!!!! hahaha. I hear your heart and I am getting more and more convinced that weed-control is not our role as humans: http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/le...

Re: Sovereignty vs. Love

Jeromy — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:40:47 -0000

Unorthodoxology — "What greater force can there be than the One who can truly love in spite of everything. Such force changes people, completely .... the love of God is what keeps you up at night, what plunges you into darkness to reveal light. What majesty it is to be love."

All I can say is that is perhaps the most beautiful and orthodox thing I have read in a long, long time. Just re-reading over and over again reveals a depth that is rarely seen. I'm typeless (kinda like speechless, but with a keyboard).

Re: Guys Walks Into A Bar…

Jeromy — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:57:38 -0000

Three guys are in a bar having a great conversation about God and drinking a great beer. Their conversation was so Jesus-led, good and redemptive that one of the guys pulls out his MacBook to take notes. As the other two continue talking the guy opens up his Mac and reaches down into his bag to get his wireless mouse. On his way back up his elbow hits the who-knows-what-kind-of-beer-it-is and spills it into his laptop. $#@&%!! he yells as he scrambles to stop the glugging. His friends just laugh at him.

But on a more serious note, I agree with Mucasbachner. You had me going and then instead of the anticipated humorous punch line you hit me square in the jaw with something unexpected and very beautiful.

Re: Guys Walks Into A Bar…

Jeromy — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:59:18 -0000

By the way, reading this is making me very thirsty for a certain Streets of London...

Re: Guys Walks Into A Bar…

Jeromy — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:37:44 -0000

Kind of an inside joke, reminiscent of God calling Jesus "Jesse". My goal is to call M a different—yet similar—name each time.

Mucasbachner...game on!

Re: Guys Walks Into A Bar…

Jeromy — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:54:24 -0000

The guy who walked in, listened to all the bickering, then when asked his opinion he responded in a very Jesus-like way. He went above the ground level they were operating in and went to the essence, declaring it "good". I found his whole response very beautiful...

I loved the point!

Re: Coldplay’s Viva LaVida Review

Jeromy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:07:12 -0000

Where's the "hate of money"?

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Jeromy — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:26:41 -0000

I also think that a connected fear and part of the journey we are going through (at least Jen and I) is that the burden is on us. We can't blame a youth ministry for not doing enough or meeting our teenager's spiritual needs or not going on mission trips. We can't pass the buck onto the Children's ministry for our kid's spirituality. We can't just simply drop them off once a week and appease our conscience. It is on us. And I think that is where the holy fear comes into play because if we don't do it, there is not a "system" or professionals to lean on to pick up the slack. Instead, we have friends and community and natural mentors and it is up to us to dream and create missional and spiritual experiences we do as a family and community.

With is comes a fearful respect because of its inherent power. With it also comes an excitement and energy that parallels no other and a power that is lying dormant waiting to be birthed. And the best part, our wives get to be involved and not just cook meals.

Oh, and by the way Jonathan, my name "Jeromy" is copyrighted and cannot be used unless it links to my blog or I get paid $1,000 in royalties.

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:41:21 -0000

Yea, I know. Thanks for reminding me. That will be another $1,000 or an additional link.

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:12:16 -0000

Tracy, you said, "Will we corrupt it?" I think that is at the heart of the fears. That what we are dreaming rings so beautiful in our hearts that surely we are going to drop the ball. Perhaps, to be sure. But something heavenly happens when us God-loved-creatures join him in what he is doing and wanting to do. And there seems to be this grace-bathed spiritual filter that makes our cracked vessels seem like they came from God. Oh, wait a minute, that's right...they did! My bad.

Care to share (perhaps via email) what is on your heart that brought you to tears?

Re: A Social Gospel???

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:30:59 -0000

"It is not a matter of engaging in both the gospel and social action, as if Christian social action was something separate from the gospel itself. The gospel has to be demonstrated in word and deed. Biblically, the gospel includes the totality of all that is good news from God for all that is bad news in human life—in every sphere. So like Jesus, authentic Christian mission has included good news for the poor, compassion for the sick and suffering justice for the oppressed, liberation for the enslaved. The gospel of the Servant of God in the power of the Spirit of God addresses every area of human need and every area that has been broken and twisted by sin and evil. And the heart of the gospel, in all of these areas, is the cross of Christ."

- Christopher J. H. Wright
(from Knowing the Holy Spirit Through the Old Testament)

Re: A Social Gospel???

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:27:40 -0000

I agree.

I was pointing out how we've traditionally made this a dualistic argument. I don't think the two can or should be separated. And I would agree that yes, our actions speak much louder than our words and that Christianity (especially in evangelicalism-of-late) is largely dependent and based on words. Even our non-actions are actions, just in the negligent sense.

Re: One Buttock Christianity

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:01:14 -0000

"Oh, [sad] only 3% loves classical music, if only we can raise it to 4%, oh. No, EVERYONE! [ecstatic] loves classical music...they just don't know they do yet!! Do you see the difference?"

How true. One is the Gospel according to how we were taught. The other is the good news of hope for all.

Re: One Buttock Christianity

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:04:36 -0000

There are some of us who think Christianity is dying. And there are others who are saying, You haven't seen nothin' yet!!

Re: What Are You Reading?

Jeromy — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:10:33 -0000

I am reading the theological and spiritual classic ;-) , To Kill A Mockingbird, by Harper Lee. Any guesses why?

Re: Deconstructing Doctrine

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:14:29 -0000

Chad, I think the division is due to our paradigm that doctrine or belief should—and can—be the uniting factor, rather than love and the Holy Spirit. Belief/doctrine will never unite us, as we have witnessed throughout the ages. Perhaps we are to be united in love and service despite our different understandings. I think the enemy is using the carrot of "correct doctrine" to distract us from love; he knows which one will truly unite us. Of course that said, some would argue that he is using love to distract us from correct doctrine.

Re: Resurrect Me

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:47:34 -0000

"[Grace is] stupid good."

A simply profound statement.

Re: Guy Falls Into A Hole

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:32:26 -0000

An atheist falls into a pit, "See what happens when you don't believe in God or Jesus?!" they say. Then God reaches down and pulls her out of the pit and embraces her in love.

Re: Guy Falls Into A Hole

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:50:00 -0000

Ugh, I have SOOO many hole-scenarios running through my head, none of which are too loving to post, so I am going to resist the temptation to post them.

Re: A Disclaimer

Jeromy — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:11:37 -0000

I may want to add this as one of my blog pages...I couldn't have said it better.

Re: A One Year Reflection

Jeromy — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 09:42:13 -0000

Well, for what it's worth, today is Saturday and I just read this post. But then again I've never really been one to follow the trend!

Re: NT Wright The Boxer

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:12:35 -0000

So we reject a biological Darwinism but covet a social and economic Darwinism. Never thought of it that way but it is so true.

My ribs and face hurt. Thanks.

Re: Straight From The Horses Mouth

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:30:46 -0000

Wow. I knew it must be high but that is insane. I wonder what rate those on the fringes are leaving?

Re: A Movement Of People

Jeromy — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:06:17 -0000

re: Comment 16

[sigh]

Re: Question For The Ladies

Jeromy — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:52:09 -0000

All right, I'll chime in.

So this really has nothing to do with women and their midriff, but this last month at an all company rafting trip on of my co-workers (he sits right next to me in the office) wore a Speedo (the traditional cut). Ack. And if that wasn't bad enough his Speedo was accompanied by a white t-shirt that hung just below the "uh-oh" line making him look like a flasher. I'm not sure, but I think I saw women flocking to the bushes to puke.

Talk about things "I don't get" . . . not that he wore Speedos but that women weren't flocking towards him!

hahaha

Re: Question For The Ladies

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:45:18 -0000

So, Tracy, would you be puking or flocking towards him?

I think you should let go of your restraints and begin yanking up those boys pants...just for fun of course.

Re: Quotes From Gandhi

Jeromy — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:03:10 -0000

I like this quote from the Movie: http://tinyurl.com/6lumwf

Re: Your Sunday Experience

Jeromy — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:58:35 -0000

My Sunday experience? Spent the day at home cleaning and taking care of a sick family. This cold has kept us home for the past four Sundays. If it is not one kid it's the other, and now it's the mom.

Re: Really Expensive Buildings

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:28:46 -0000

I purposely left out the name of the organization then you go and link to my post with the name of the organization. PLUS put it as you ONLY tag. Thanks a lot bro... :-P

But my conscience is clear. That's you're baggage. ;-)

Re: Really Expensive Buildings

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:12:33 -0000

I agree, it is not with SP, but more about the larger world- theological-view. The reason why I intentionally left out SP's name is because I didn't want people to be distracted from the issue by the organization's name. Plus, for my post, I didn't feel it was necessary or helpful to include the specific name. I to love what they are doing and want people to participate, hence why I left their name out.

Quite honestly, I don't care one way or another if you include their name or not in your post. I just thought it was funny that I tried so hard to avoid mentioning their name in my post and then you link to it with their name. It's more humorous and ironic than anything (at least to me).

Re: Really Expensive Buildings

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:49:46 -0000

I hope they do. I'm looking forward to this holiday season and dreaming/walking together as families in this conspiracy. Thanks for dreaming with us!

Re: A Must Watch

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:22:46 -0000

So are we apart of the "we" generation? If not by age, I am in spirit.

Re: A Must Watch

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:26:21 -0000

Sweet. I'm still young...

Re: A Call To Men

Jeromy — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:37:24 -0000

jhimm, trust us when we say that this form of oppression is VERY much alive and well. I knew of it, but until the wounding of women started to be expressed by those around me, I never knew (emotionally and relationally) how deep and present it was.

But I get what you're saying...when it isn't part of our experience or tradition, it kinda just disappears — from US that is. But just 'cause it is hidden from our sight, does not mean it is gone. It simply means it is not part of OUR world. But listen long and gently enough and you'll begin hearing the whispers of the wounded.

Re: A Call To Men

Jeromy — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:46:05 -0000

Agreed.

Re: Obama is a “Terrorist Plant” from Birth

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:52:13 -0000

Wha? You mean he isn't?

Shwew...

Re: Obama is a “Terrorist Plant” from Birth | Ephemeral Thoughts

Jeromy — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 02:00:00 -0000

Wha? You mean he isn't?
Shwew...

Re: Priest Says Obama Voters Must Do Penance

Jeromy — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:28:41 -0000

Well, guess I won't be taking holy communion then. Oh wait, I already don't if it is presented in the wrong spirit. Oh well: http://www.mendingshift.com/2008/03/06/fasting-...

Obama's election really drummed up the two extremes: people who think the world is coming to an end, and people who think the world is going to be made "all better".

Re: Priest Says Obama Voters Must Do Penance | Ephemeral Thoughts

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:00:00 -0000

Well, guess I won't be taking holy communion then. Oh wait, I already don't if it is presented in the wrong spirit. Oh well: http://www.mendingshift.com/2008/03/06/fasting-from-the-lords-supper-2/
Obama's election really drummed up the two extremes: people who think the world is coming to an end, and people who think the world is going to be made "all better".

Re: Caravaggio’s Supper at Emmaus: Meditate, Compare, Contrast

Jeromy — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:41:31 -0000

Jon,

Very intriguing...he seems to definitely be making a statement with her presence. Courageous. Almost like all are welcome at his table. She seems very rejected. Her face looks very weathered and beat down. Refuses to leave.

You know, I'd really be interested in hearing (or reading) your story. Do you mind sharing it? If not, completely understand.

Re: The Biggest Loser

Jeromy — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:09:44 -0000

I read your post, thanks for sharing...it really helps. Let me read your link and reply back tomorrow...

Re: Caravaggio’s Supper at Emmaus: Meditate, Compare, Contrast

Jeromy — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:55:58 -0000

Am I up for coffee, what a silly question. You bleed apple juice. I bleed Vanilla Latte with two shots of apple juice. This week or next week works good for me. Let me know what works with your schedule and I'll adapt, if possible.

Re: Caravaggio’s Supper at Emmaus: Meditate, Compare, Contrast

Jeromy — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:59:12 -0000

I think I found the time issue....how's this?

Re: The Biggest Loser

Jeromy — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:13:28 -0000

"My only suggestion is that if you adopt someone that isn’t white, you may want to consider two…" Would you still recommend this with a mixed-race (black/white) child? We were looking at the stats: only 1% of all adoptions are mixed race. WOW!

(OK, I had to pause to put lipstick on my daughter...one the things I never thought I'd do as a guy)

Reading your blog post... How did the speech go? I am sure there was a good response and lots of encouragement. I am confident God will direct our hearts towards "our child". We have an initial meeting Thursday morning with the fost-adopt folks. Jen cannot stop thinking about it. I'm nervous.

Satan has a way of doing that, doesn't he? At it seems always at the worst time (when we are at our lowest) or when we are truly making a difference in this world for God's Kingdom. Bless you for your perseverance.

Good suggestion about the group. It seems like God is building around us an "unofficial" support group around us. We'll ask about groups this Thursday.

So I just got a phone call in the middle of writing. Blue (David), the teen we opened up our home to, just called and might need to stay at our house for a few days. He is moving from L.A. back home to Florida. He said he is in a bit of "trouble" (not fuller sure at this point what that means). And so our stories continue to be written...

Re: The Biggest Loser

Jeromy — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:06:14 -0000

Good question about the 1%...probably a mixture of both.

Everyone loves a good story. Glad to hear it paid off (in both the literal and non-literal cents -- I crack myself up)

Baby, not sure of gender (Caleb, our son, is pulling for a boy). Trying to keep the birth-order thing going.

Funny! But it's true, we don't. Oh well, so much for gender equality.

Re: Caravaggio’s Supper at Emmaus: Meditate, Compare, Contrast

Jeromy — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:11:32 -0000

Hmm, the first seems very polished, almost still-life like and posed. Bored with their presence, never saw that. High class.

The second, realistic, humble, curious...much more natural and subdued. Yea, they do all seem to be leaning into Him.

Which painting do you identify with? Which person?

Re: Caravaggio’s Supper at Emmaus: Meditate, Compare, Contrast

Jeromy — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:49:44 -0000

Yea, he kinda looks like he should be on "Heroes". I definitely identity with the second one more. I feel more at home in those kind of down to earth settings. It just feels more real, less plastered. I am always attracted to authenticity and openness.

Who? For me, all of them at times. Sometimes I resemble the faceless guy on the left; shocked, pulling back, perhaps afraid. Then there are times where, like the other guy at the table, where I am leaning into Jesus, but still white-knuckle-gripping the edges of the table; tense, but still wanting to hear him. Then I am like the guy standing closest to Jesus; very close in proximity, but standing aloof with my brow furrowed, almost distant. More often, I feel like the women on the outside edge; tired, worn, hurt, but still present with Jesus; aching for a glimpse, but not strong enough to look into his eyes; yearning to hear his words, but the table seems to crowded; Sometimes, all I can do is offer my bread that I am holding with both hands to Jesus and those at the table. Something about her face that I cannot get past.

Re: The Story of Red and How He Changed Our Lives (Part 1)

Jeromy — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:22:09 -0000

Thanks Verity. And the thing is, try as I did, I cannot fully put into words the immense internal battle to come to that place of trust. Even then, when we said, "Yes Lord", fear and caution were there...they did not magically leave. It is amazing how often we walk in the tension of fear and faith.

Re: One Line #1

Jeromy — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:37:50 -0000

With or without us... Who am I to offer him any counsel?

Re: One Line #1

Jeromy — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:07:04 -0000

Is it our job? To help me bring perspective, the analogy (although an admittedly imperfect one) of God as a "man" and us as "ants" helps. All these ants circle around God seeing their role as his protector from other ants. Isn't God big enough to defend himself?

Re: The “Great Spirit”…God?

Jeromy — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:06:46 -0000

Thanks Verity. I hope you are being as stretched and challenged by our conversation as I am.

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus! (1 of 2)

Jeromy — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:37:37 -0000

I replied to you offline on facebook. I'll post my thoughts here next week so I do not skew other's journey...

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:29:05 -0000

I suppose it takes one to know one, infidel. Did someone say coffee...Peets? It will have to be early morning (like 6:00 or 6:30) or in the evening. Which do you prefer?

Re: Catholic Priest Shortage, The Results…

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:01:16 -0000

Did you chuckle, or buckle? By the way, coffee? I am working in Rancho Cordova (8am-5pm) but can do a lunch time deal if you can meet me somewhere near Zinfandel. Game?

Re: Catholic Priest Shortage, The Results…

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:10:22 -0000

Not sure where that is, but I can find it. What day works for you next week?

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:38:14 -0000

Jon,

I liked your words to describe the roll of Adam's choice and how it effected "all men" and the "many"...

Curious to hear your thoughts about the role of Jesus' choice and how it effects "all men" and not just the "many" that choose...the focus of Romans 5 seems to be the action of Jesus, not the choice of man. 1 Timothy 4:10 (and its context) offers some interesting thoughts to the discussion...

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:02:02 -0000

I also think when we choose to belief and accept Abba's forgiveness of us that we begin to walk in the healing power that the awareness of our peace with God brings. That when we recognize that he is no longer mad at us, but has forgiven us, that fact allows us to be healed by his presence and spirit. The question for me becomes: What comes first, our choice or his forgiveness? Or another way to pose it, does our choice trigger his forgiveness?

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:07:08 -0000

I like that translation...which one is it? Even with this one, or The Message's, which also paints a beautiful picture, the question still stands: "The question for me becomes: What comes first, our choice or his forgiveness? Or another way to pose it, does our choice trigger his forgiveness?" Or as this translation words it, overflowing grace...? Or the Message, the "extravagant life-gift, this grand setting-everything-right" ???

Re: Timon and Metaphors

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:12:49 -0000

We all do, don't we. Some just don't admit it. The difficulty is trying to know the author's intent: literal or figurative?

I know I have had my written words taken literally when they were not meant to be. Haven't you? It is so frustrating and creates havoc/pain sometimes. Ugh...

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:10:51 -0000

The Jewish New Testament, huh. I bet it is rich in meaning lost by our Gentile versions. I met one time with a Jewish Rabbi in Sacramento and was deeply touched by our conversation...we have so much to learn if we only listen. There is a Messianic Jewish church in the area I've wanted to visit but have not gotten around to it.

By the way, have I ever told you you have a way with words? Can you write my blog? I'll pay you in coffee and MAC upgrades.

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:32:54 -0000

Good call. Can you bring it up at the next gathering?

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:42:23 -0000

Tuesday works for me...noon?

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:02:24 -0000

Done...see you Tuesday.

Re: Timon and Metaphors

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:36:47 -0000

hear hear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_hear). I learned something today...

Re: Emerging and Brokaw

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:03:29 -0000

Laughing, kinda. I have heard that word too many times regarding other churches...followed by, "But you know what I mean." I always wanted to say, "No, actually, I don't, can you tell me what you mean?"

Re: Reign O’er Me

Jeromy — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:29:36 -0000

You're welcome, Sara.

Re: Reign O’er Me

Jeromy — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:38:53 -0000

What I enjoyed about the ending was that it left with a sense of hope, but not closure...like his story is still being written, and it could go either way, but there's hope. Their freindship is what got me most...and the flashbacks of his kids and wife in the house--I was a mess.

Re: Reign O’er Me

Jeromy — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:46:41 -0000

Those were the days...or not, perhaps :-) My college roomate would listen to PJ all the time.

Re: Reign O’er Me

Jeromy — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:28:52 -0000

Raquel,

Have you seen (Netflixed) this one?

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:15:56 -0000

Raquel,

I love how you are showing people how beautiful, loving, and life-giving Jesus is. I love how you want to see what God is doing and join him by serving him. I love how your friend was moved to tears because she saw Jesus for who he is. My heart is not to point, and gripe, and complain, and bemoan the "ooze" in the church (there are plenty of those out there), but to, like you, join God's mission and show Jesus, the real Jesus--not the slimy, safe, institutionalized one.

I agree that some use the "ooze" as an excuse, but some have been really hurt or are simply disgusted by it... I want to be a part of healing the church and be where God is at. But sometimes, much like a doctor, in order to help bring healing, symptoms need to be studied, questions need to be asked, the "ooze" has to be seen, etc. Are you with me? The goal is healing and restoration. It sounds like one of you assumptions is that God is NOT at work in the current "diagnosis" of his church. I see him at work on many fronts, this being one of them. Cool?

You of all people know how set-apart Jesus is from our religious institutions, but some people think that if they "accept" Jesus then they have to change, loose their uniqueness, and become an ooze-church clone. My heart grieves when people say NO to Jesus when they are really saying NO to the western modern church (as they perceive it, right or wrong). I just want them to love and see Jesus...and watch him restore them to health.

Question: Do you hear my goal being a perfect, sinless church?

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:51:06 -0000

To set the record strait, that is not what I believe nor am suggesting (I thought you knew me better than that ;-) ). I agree that we should set a high “Jesus” standard and know that we will fall short. But it sounds like you are saying, “I’m messed up, you’re messed up, we’re all messed up…so be it…lets just all individually love and serve Jesus.” I know this is not what you’re saying, but it SOUNDS like you are.

“The world hates its enemy…it hates the goodness that we love.” I am assuming you are referring to God as their enemy? Perhaps, they don’t hate the goodness; maybe they are just dying to SEE it. I’m convinced that it is God’s kindness that leads to repentance more often than not. Your friend saw his goodness and it brought her to tears, no?

We both know who the Healer is. But for some odd and beautiful reason, known only to him, he has invited us to join him in the healing process. Is this not why you go to the prison? I am sensing God has not called you to help heal the church, but for some, he has…and that’s OK. It’s not a bad thing…it is just them trying to following where the Spirit is leading them. You need to follow where he is leading you…which I see you also trying to do. Another assumption I am hearing (please correct me) is that if I look at the wounds and dysfunctions of the church I am not keeping my mind on God?

I just don’t want people who reject the church (slime, beauty and all) to reject Jesus in the process. And for THEM, perhaps we need to approach our conversation differently (hence this post).

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:49:31 -0000

A beautiful beast, no?

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:39:13 -0000

Assumption that I keep hearing: If you look at the church (at all) you are not looking at God. Please correct me if this is not what you are saying. Why does it have to be "either/or"?

Even in Revelation, God, through John, spoke to the churches, pointed out their shortcomings, and asked them to repent. No?

Do you hear me saying to NOT look at God, or Jesus? I didn't suggest throwing the baby (Jesus/God) out the window and then only looking at and cleaning the tub. I am chuckling at that thought. ;-)

Re: Yep, This Tree is Perfect

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:57:06 -0000

We laugh every time we look at it.

Re: It Has Two Lines!!

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:41:32 -0000

Thank Nicole (it is OK to use your real name?). I guess this means adoption will be put on hold. Our plans vs. Gods...crazy, huh?

Re: The Hand

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:00:15 -0000

They do, don't they. And they are all around us. Life becomes more REAL because of them.

Re: It Has Two Lines!!

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:56:42 -0000

We have NO idea how far along she is, but her belly is starting to pudge. We will keep you guys posted. Here's to sharin' life together......(I am holding my glass of wine in the air).

Re: It Has Two Lines!!

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:46:33 -0000

Thanks Matt...blessings to you as well.

Re: About

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:48:55 -0000

I have "Now Arrived". ;-) Cheers Matty!

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:22:20 -0000

I couldn't agree with you more. Well said!

I also feel that the church needs to look at it's logs before pointing out culture's specks.

Re: The Baby and the Bath Water

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:53:35 -0000

"I believe that the church isn’t a business model and it should not be treated as such....it seems pointless, then, to try and measure and poll what people want and want their turn-offs are. for goodness sake, why not just ask God what HE wants and what His turn-offs are?"

Raquel, it sounds like you are pointing out a flaw in the Church...that they look to the business-model and people, not to God. That is all I am suggesting too.

Re: AD313 - What a Difference a Year Makes

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:35:17 -0000

Nicole...it is just history showing how the church was in society's margins (early church), to its center (313AD-50 years ago), back to its margins (today), begging the question, "So how are we to be the church-in-the-margins again?"

Re: AD313 - What a Difference a Year Makes

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:36:45 -0000

Jon...need some Advil?

Re: AD313 - What a Difference a Year Makes

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:29:04 -0000

Nope. What do they say, history is written by the victor?

Re: Living Outside the Saltshaker, Revisited…

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:31:13 -0000

Glad he spoke to you through my words......which is always a great mystery to me.

Re: From Merry X-Mas to Happy Holidays

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:32:30 -0000

A Christ-Mass within me......well put, you X-ian. ;-)

Re: A Mending Shift » The Gospel According to Jesus

Jeromy — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:27:11 -0000

Seth, I am interested in your comment. Can you elaborate a bit more?

Re: A Mending Shift » The Gospel According to Jesus

Jeromy — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:18:59 -0000

Indeed it is...what a great passage: "Very truly I tell you, all who have faith in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

It's funny because I often hear people say (or insinuate) that Jesus never intended us to actually do the things he did or taught. That they are just high standards to show how far short and sinful we are.

Why do you suppose we don't witness many of these "even greater things" today? Or perhaps you do?

Re: A Mending Shift » The Gospel According to Jesus

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:16:00 -0000

Good insight...especially regarding science and rationality...thanks for sharing Seth.

Its funny when you also think that Good News for some means Bad News for others. Slaves and their owners come to mind. I might post in more depth on this good/bad aspect of good news.

Re: Everything is Spiritual 1 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:36:09 -0000

Hey Raquel...good question. Following your laziness precedent, I referred it to my "language" buddy, Jon Holmes (thanks Jon). Here is what he said:

There is no word in the OT for "spiritual". The word is absolutely foreign to OT thinking and philosophy, and even foreign to the NT writers... including Jesus. The notion of "spirituality" is a product of Gnosticism and the notion that the ethereal is more important than the flesh, the things of the earth. OT and NT thought is largely based on consistency between the outward and the inner, not one above the other. However, the closest words that we can find in the OT that have any resemblance is the "heart" and the "intestines", for these were the centers of our emotions.

Re: Everything is Spiritual 1 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:12:16 -0000

The closest I could find was for spirit, and the meaning was wind or breath. Let me know what you find, k? What were your thoughts on the clip?

Re: Everything is Spiritual 1 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:30:28 -0000

How so?

Re: Everything is Spiritual 1 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:48:36 -0000

So the Hebrew understanding of "soul" is not the ghostly-flying-us (think casper) that we often associate with it (a bodiless being)? I'm trying to picture what you are saying. Is it the literal core of our being, or more like our true-self? It is so hard to think of "one" integrated thing rather than the three we have been taught (mind-body-soul).

Re: Everything is Spiritual 1 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:28:56 -0000

Yea, I think he was challenging our Greek and gnostic view of a dualistic nature...that there is "spiritual" and "non-spiritual" and that the "spiritual" is ideal and separate from the physical. This dualistic nature view gave way to asceticism (google Simeon Stylites) as well as what we see today with a "spiritual" life (praying, going to church, etc.) and a separate "secular" life (work, money, sex, etc...). I know this separation is not correct, but it is the default stance of most people in our churches.

Another way of viewing it like compartments where we have our life broken up into separate compartments (family, work, church, school, ect.) and we behave a certain way depending on which compartment we are operating in. Each compartment can be given a higher or lower priority. Each compartment is separate from the others and do not effect the others.

For me, this is what Rob was addressing.

Re: Everything is Spiritual 2 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:05:30 -0000

Can you give a Reader's Digest version of the String Theory?

As a bonus, if you can relate it to the current socioeconomic crisis in the Middle East and its ramifications on the over-carbonation of soda, I'll be truly impressed.

Re: Everything is Spiritual 2 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:47:50 -0000

No bonus points for you.

All eight chapters? Or were there specific ones you were referring to? Looks like a 3-hour mini-series...looks like good stuff though. (my wife is cracking up at me for discussing physics and the String-theory...LOL).

Re: Everything is Spiritual 2 - Rob Bell

Jeromy — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:47:52 -0000

There is actually 24 chapters!! I've watched the first 5...you're right, pretty riveting, "out there" stuff. Thanks for the link. Looks like some good conversation fodder.

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:07:46 -0000

Thanks for your words and prayers, Laurel...they both mean a lot.

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:51:48 -0000

Hi Mary, I've always appreciated your wise words (you've had some pretty tough years...so I know I am in good company).

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:07:00 -0000

I love you 2, Dove. -Bear

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:19:32 -0000

I think you mentioned that you're moving. Redding is a ways north, but if you're ever in the Sacramento area or just driving though, give me a call and we can sit down together over some Peets coffe or Fat Tire.

I look forward to the "More soon..."

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:16:40 -0000

Raquel...sometimes special songs help our spirits, thanks for sharing this song. The above link was broken, but I found the video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6q9pwJy-nw

What song is "Jesus"?

Re: How Are You Doing? I’m Glad You Asked…

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:26:15 -0000

Jonathan, I'll hold onto your "no doubt"...thanks for your faith.

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:17:37 -0000

Well, I suppose we could always redub it with Kirk Franklin... :-)
So I take it you'll pass?

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:51:14 -0000

Regarding community...I have seen that too. But I also find that I have to combat my tendency to isolate rather than relate and love. I've also found that the deeper I go in healing relationship with others, the more I experience God's healing. There seems to be a God-given connection. But you're right, we can't replace Jesus with others, but sometimes we see Jesus because of others.

Yea, but given my background, I wouldn't say that "freedom" would be the word to describe my experience (or what I was taught) with the Christian life. Quite the opposite actually. But what you say is true, we will never fully walk in complete freedom. I think I would be happy with, say, 40% of true freedom.

I think those are all things we need to risk. For me, it was more taking risks for his Kingdom and not walking in fear of failure. To be willing to experiment and try new things...that sort of idea of risk.

Re: Why I Hate the Church. Why I Love the Church.

Jeromy — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:38:46 -0000

Thank God indeed. It tears me up inside when I see the church judge and condemn, yet I am deeply encouraged when I see God use and transform our condemnation for his love and hope. That his spirit blows wherever he wishes...

Curious, you said "quite often I just have to go to church"...can you elaborate more?

Re: Settler and Pioneer: Spiritual Analogy from the Wild West

Jeromy — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:07:24 -0000

Yea, Brennan is a deep writer. I have been blessed by many of his books. I liked the Clergyman views...

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:22:41 -0000

My assumption is you are an extrovert ;-) . Myself being an introvert by nature, my natural tendency is to isolate. I'm not so much talking about physical proximity (am I alone or with others) but more of an emotional isolation. I tend to be guarded and remain on the surface, except for with a handful of close friends. I chill both with God and alone, I don't always see it as a hard separation...it goes in and out.

Well as you said before, I don't think that we will EXPERIENCE 100% freedom here on earth. I think my junk, religion, and all sorts of other things hold me back. You?

My background was more of a "now that you have Jesus, here is a big list of things you can't do and should do...". Jesus’ yoke was taught as light, but the lived-out cultural meta-message, both taught and implied, was one of a heavy burden.

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:18:05 -0000

Oh no, it was all under the guise of Jesus, even love for him, but when it boiled down to it, it was a bunch of cultural man-made rules. Rules such as no tatoos, no smoking, no drinking, no swearing, you can have non-Christian aquaintences...just not best friends, they might corrupt you, that sort of stuff. And you avoided this because you love Jesus and this is what he commands, or at least highly encourages. So the waters of a freeing personal relationship got muddied with a bunch of religious stuff. On top of the negatives, there was a whole list of stuff you needed to be doing to be a good Christian. It is much easier to work off a list of do's-and-dont's where there is no thinking involved, than it is to walk in true freedom, you know?

I hear you. The older I get and the closer I walk with him, the more I realize that I have enough crap in me to deal with.

Re: One Line #4

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:55:17 -0000

Actually, this was the first I read of her. I saw this quote in an email sent to me. Based on your comments, it sound like you really recommend her?

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:35:19 -0000

Yea, believe me, I take ownership for feeding, teaching, and embracing a more legalistic approach to following Jesus. But seriously, I have been freed from a lot of man- and Jeromy-placed legalism, both internal and from my upbringing.

You had to be freed from stuff I didn't have to be freed from, and I had to be freed from stuff you didn't have to be freed from. I agree with much of what you said. Thank you for the dialogue...

By the way, the irony is that the background music (not even the lyrics...just the music) to this video was deemed to be evil when I was growing up. The actual beat was Satanic...

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:12:28 -0000

No, not at all...why?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:21:55 -0000

Good points. There would be all sorts of responses and opinions of Him...and he would probably step on all kinds of holy and pious toes. Add to it that Jesus would not take the human name Jesus (much too deified) but would probably use again a very common name like Robert or Sam.

How do you think you would respond to him?

Re: Who’s Got the Truck? I’ll Bring the Mattress…

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:53:23 -0000

Tell me about it. We're cool. Thank you for clarifying.

Now the hell conversation, I was done. This one, not at all. I was just saying that I agree with much of what you were saying and thanks for dialoging. Then I left it open again with the music comment.

Sorry if I insinuated I was done....

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:10:59 -0000

Both in Matthew's and Luke's gospel narratives he was labeled a glutton and drunk.

Re: Why I Hate the Church. Why I Love the Church.

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:16:13 -0000

Klowie - Sad how far some have strayed from Jesus' sinner-embracing heart...I too have a ways to go. I resonate with your words. Thanks!

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:56:17 -0000

But one does have to associate (possibly even eat alot of food and drink alcohol, though not to the point of gluttony or drunkenness) with gluttons and drunks to be labeled as such.

Where did you find "heresy" or "heretic" in the Bible? Did I miss it? What was the Greek definition?

According to God and his way, Jesus was obviously not a heretic. But to his surrounding religious culture, he was...so much so they killed him in the name of God as a heretic.

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:13:58 -0000

I re-read my post and what I wrote was unintentionally misleading. You're correct...Jesus was labeled a glutton and drunk, not was one. Thanks for holding my words accountable. I have changed it...

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:45:02 -0000

Thank you. Your words help reiterate that people today are looking for authenticity, transparency, and openness to admit error, not perfection. I have a long way to go in all three areas...

That definitely does not dissuade me from checking it out, dialoging, or a friendship. I'll see you at your place...

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:18:10 -0000

Well, one cannot say for sure that he did or did not eat a bunch of food, or did or did not drink wine. Clearly, even his presence at such parties was enough to vilify him. Heck, he even made some kicking Cabernet…

But the precise definition of heretic or whether or not he ate and drank was not the point. Did you hear the heart of the post? What are your thoughts about the questions I posed?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:13:29 -0000

Nicole - I believe that if Jesus did the things Jesus did we would call him a heretic.

Do you think I am saying that Jesus is a literal heretic?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:20:53 -0000

Matty - They declared him as nothing less...and their violent reaction to his "heretical" words and actions is the pudding of proof. Do you suppose we would react differently? I would hope so, but I fear not. What says you?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:45:13 -0000

Laurel - I fear you missed the point of the post.

Jesus was going against THEIR VIEW of what scripture said, thus they labeled and killed him as a heretic. Do you suppose we would act differently?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:52:36 -0000

Jesus being a glutton or drunk, for me, is not up in the air...I don't think he was.

Very true, they have nothing on what Jesus received.

I too can only hope what I would do with a Robert from Snelling who did what Jesus did (again, Robert from Snelling being Jesus from Bethleham, just today). Sometimes the thought of my possible reaction scares me...

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:33:58 -0000

By the way Raquel, I accept your compliment about love. Thank you...and I have a LONG way to go!

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:16:34 -0000

We = us, those who identify with Jesus and his name.

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:20:01 -0000

Matt - the earth is not round ;-)

Re: Good Friends

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:01:40 -0000

LOL...need a bowl?

See, I can smell my own toenails, but if it was someone else's I would throw up more than a little.

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:15:39 -0000

Feel free to comment and interact here...I have no quams. My friendships are not based on whether or not I 100% agree or disagree with the other, if they were, I would have to say goodbye to all three of my friends!

Thomas, I don't really get hung up over the literalness of figurativeness of such stories...take creation, if God wanted to use an evolution process to create things over a period of millions of years, cool. I try not to miss the forest for the tree. I would rather listen, converse and get to know you more as a person. By the way, did you see my questions on your post?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:05:36 -0000

DT - I never felt you highjacked my blog...post whatever you like whenever you like to whomever you like...no worries here. It is just HTML code after all ;-)

"we are all much more complex than whatever label is placed upon us. Labels are designed more for the person viewing it than the person wearing it." - well said. Labels unfortunately help us place people in a compartment (I am picturing those huge metal freight containers, but with windows), shut and lock the door, and then view them safely through the windows. Then if they get too bad, we can ship them off to the appropriate island.

I can see your story of how the 100% factual/scientific/documentary approach to scripture seems silly and mistaken. I believe it is as well. Part of it for me is realizing that, much like different genres in books and movies, the Bible is a mix of genres. Some stories, like Lord of the Rings, were never intended to be a documentary of fact, but rather stories that convey deeper meaning. After all, the early Jews were very tribal and nomadic that had a verbal tradition of conveying their stories. It is not a stretch for me at all to think of God using fictional-stories to convey meaning. After all, Jesus seemed to have a fascination with fiction. I plan on posting more on this.

I understand your approach of disproving biblical stories with a scientific approach when we claim they are scientifically true. But if their intended genre was fiction, then to approach disproving Lord of the Rings via scientific fact, or even at all, is a mute point. But our traditional 100% factual/scientific/documentary response forces your factual/scientific/documentary deconstruction approach.

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:10:13 -0000

Regarding my bloggroll, I consider it a collection of my friends who also blog. Even with my friends currently listed, I don't always agree with what they say or believe. But I would have a coffee or beer with them in a heartbeat. So, cheers!

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:13:19 -0000

Eden - Thanks for your words and I am glad you've been encouraged. Cheers!

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:39:58 -0000

Thanks Jonathan.

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:31:16 -0000

Stories have tremendous power in conveying truth, even thought they themselves are not true. The Bible never says it is an encyclopedia, scientific textbook, or documentary. It is the inspired word of God useful for teaching, correcting, etc. We, mostly through the influence of modernity and the Enlightenment, see it as such, approach it as such, and teach it as such.

Again, I am not saying that 100% of the bible is fiction (which is not a bad word - fiction is a VERY powerful and common medium - one that Jesus used often). But for too long we say it is 100% literal (meaning a non-fictional documentary account). There are many different literary techniques and genres in the Bible.

I met with an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi (the conservative side) here in Sacramento last year. I wanted to learn from him about the OT. Part of our conversation centered around this idea. I asked, "Was the Genesis account ever meant to be a scientific account of creation?" He chuckled, "No, it was intended to show that God created. How does light come before the sun or stars? And why does there seem to be two accounts?" He also said that Christians come into his office with the NIV version to argue with him about the OT, a text he works with in the original language and has been doing so for the past 4-5,000 years.

Nicole, you're smart, what benefit is there to stories? Not everything has to be fact in order to convey truth or influence people. Seen any good movies lately or fiction books?

Re: Jesus Was a Heretic

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:17:38 -0000

I am planning on posting on this in more detail withing the next couple days...perhaps we comment then?

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:45:50 -0000

Again, they were THEIR heathens. These are ours.

- Samaratin women: “We worship God on this mountain, but you (the jews) worship God…” This race had a religion that was different than the Jews.
- The Buddhist, in my example, beckoned Jesus to heal her son…
- Perhaps, or praised then forgiven.

Don’t miss (or dismiss) the heart by scrutinizing the details. But I sense, by your reaction, you felt the sting of what Jesus did to the Jews and what he would do to us if he were here today. Uncomfortable, isn’t it? This is how they felt…which is, in part, why they labeled him a heretic…which is, in part, why they killed him.

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:36:25 -0000

Rachel, I honestly am not worried about you. You follow Jesus and try to incarnate his love in the life of others. I did not post this with “you” in mind. I know you are not, as you say, “some isolated teenager who
grew up in the evangelical church”…I apologize if I come across treating you as such. That is not at all in my heart nor mind when I talk with you…please hear me on that.

But, I must have misunderstood your original comment. Where did your reaction come from if you felt comfortable with the idea of Jesus praising those three examples?

Who did I regurgitate with this post? Some posts are indeed summaries of something that I read or engaged with (EC and non-EC alike), but, when possible, I will site or refer to the source if that is the case. This was not one of those cases. This came from my own belly…

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:28:41 -0000

“or the fact that, without God, even his (the unbeliever's) good works count as nothing.” – Where do you find that FACT in scripture? I know he mentions them being filthy rags, and sure, compared to God and his love…they are filthy rags, but that does not mean they count as nothing. Here we see Jesus praising such filthy rags.

All I did was reflect on what Jesus said and did…and how he praised those the Jews considered to be heathens.

I then turned the light and mirror onto us.

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:39:49 -0000

It was not a treatise on salvation. Why does everything have to count or not count towards salvation? All I was simply saying was the Jesus praised heathens. That's it. He did. They were heathens according to the Jews and Jesus praised them. The Jews did not like it.

You are correct in saying that I intentionally take a certain approach in order to make a point. Controversial to some, refreshing to others. But none the less, the words apply...

Why Manson? Artistic license. What would you do if Manson crashed a church pot luck and Jesus praised him?

Re: A Mending Shift » Jesus Praised Heathens

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:07:10 -0000

If Manson did what the "sinful" women did, why wouldn't he?

That Jesus came to bring God's kingdom, asks us to follow him in doing so, which happens to also include forgivness and salvation, as well as justice, mercy, and humbly walking with him.

He did Nicole...it's right there! THE JEWS CONSIDERED EACH OF THESE PEOPLE HEATHENS. And because Jesus praised these heathens, the JEWS labeled HIM a heretic and killed him.

That's how I see it. You see it differently. Cool.

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:58:19 -0000

Nicole - I'm glad to hear you say that is not your goal. And I sincerely do sense your heart. I really, truly want to try to engage and dialogue with the heart of the posts, not the neuances of words.

Why are you grieved?

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:00:04 -0000

BTW - do you mind if I copy and paste our other comments about this topic onto this post?

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:46:00 -0000

This was posted by Nicole on a previous Thread:

"Jeromy - need to digress for a minute…

“Thomas, I don’t really get hung up over the literalness of figurativeness of such stories…take creation, if God wanted to use an evolution process to create things over a period of millions of years, cool.”

and

“It is not a stretch for me at all to think of God using fictional-stories to convey meaning. After all, Jesus seemed to have a fascination with fiction.”

I don’t understand why you think God would inspire men to write a book that is to be read as fact, but allow us to interpret it as fact or fiction, depending on how much of a stretch it seems to our imagination. In referencing the Jews as “nomadic story tellers” you are usurping the acts of the Divine with the life style and practices of His people.

I don’t see verses that talk about the figurativeness of a passage - unless it’s a parable… Would it not be misleading of God to talk as if the Bible is literal, if it isn’t? Would He not be deceiving His people? What benefit would there be to things being stories or myths, rather than fact?"

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:46:40 -0000

My response:
"Stories have tremendous power in conveying truth, even thought they themselves are not true. The Bible never says it is an encyclopedia, scientific textbook, or documentary. It is the inspired word of God useful for teaching, correcting, etc. We, mostly through the influence of modernity and the Enlightenment, see it as such, approach it as such, and teach it as such.

Again, I am not saying that 100% of the bible is fiction (which is not a bad word - fiction is a VERY powerful and common medium - one that Jesus used often). But for too long we say it is 100% literal (meaning a non-fictional documentary account). There are many different literary techniques and genres in the Bible.

I met with an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi (the conservative side) here in Sacramento last year. I wanted to learn from him about the OT. Part of our conversation centered around this idea. I asked, “Was the Genesis account ever meant to be a scientific account of creation?” He chuckled, “No, it was intended to show that God created. How does light come before the sun or stars? And why does there seem to be two accounts?” He also said that Christians come into his office with the NIV version to argue with him about the OT, a text he works with in the original language and has been doing so for the past 4-5,000 years.

Nicole, you’re smart, what benefit is there to stories? Not everything has to be fact in order to convey truth or influence people. Seen any good movies lately or fiction books?"

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:30:28 -0000

Thank you for your words and I am sorry to have caused you such grief. I genuinely feel that you care for me. Thank you.

Please correct my assumption, but I hear you saying:
Bible + The Genre of Story (fiction) = Not God's Word

I never alluded to that. I see it as:
Bible + The Genre of Story (fiction) = God's Word

In as much as you say:
Bible + No Stories = God's Word

Where does it say in scripture that EVERYTHING in it is 100% literal?

I am not calling to question the Bible being the inspired Word of God. I am simply suggesting that he also inspired stories to convey truth as well. Jesus used them all the time. Did God change when he put on flesh? That his spoken word would be different then his written?

You're correct. It is not as easy. When my son was younger, watching movies was really easy for him: everything was real. Real monsters. Real Jedis and lightsabers. Now that he is older and he is beginning to recognize that some monsters are simply men dressed up, and some backgrounds, effects and creatures are digital––the real mixed with the non-real––watching movies is a bit more difficult. He is always asking, "OK, not is that just a guy or a monster? Is that done by the computer or is it real?" But the fact that real and non-real are mixed does not take away from the story. Having story and non-story (among others) genres mixed in scripture does not, for me, take away from the story––or the truth they are meant to convey. Fortunately, Caleb has his dad to lean over and ask. Short of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can't ask the original writers their intent. So I trust his leading. I am not losing any sleep over this. If it helps, trust me to the Holy Spirit...he's big enough to handle it.

But to simply dismiss it and say, "Well, it must all be literal" is not a viable option for me. It is for you. Cool. That's where you are at and where your journey with God has led you. I don't agree, but cool. But the same with Thomas who says that it must all be fiction; that's not viable for me either. This post was not something I threw together this afternoon. I have been pondering this for almost two years now.

And as a side note: Rob Bell had nothing to do with it. Just like he had nothing to do with my other posts.

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:56:46 -0000

Hey Matt - To be honest, we haven't had to come to that yet. Caleb takes things very literally (just how he is wired) and is barely understanding that the creatures in Star Wars are not real. Even then, he still asks because he really does not know. I really don't know yet how we'll approach it. But I don't want to teach him that it is all literal and have him struggle through the backlash of that. I fear he might throw the baby out with the bath water, "Well if this isn't true, then maybe God doesn't exist." I want him to be able to see the value of story and embrace it. How is that done? Not sure. What do you think? Let's talk this out together...

Re: A Mending Shift » Wisdom from Shel - The Search

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:10:56 -0000

The next one...good quote. We are indeed. And when we do not feel fulfilled, we trust.

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:21:55 -0000

Your rants (as well as yours Nicole) are always welcome, Jon. And even with the Story of the Loving Father (which is what I think that story should have been labeled), it ends in mystery. Did the son who stay home come back in to the house in the end? Did he remain in the field, apart from the party and celebration? Don't know...the movie just ends. I am OK with the tension.

Thank you Jon for your encouraging words. When I made a decision (we all make them) to fully lean into what God was doing in my heart––who he was making me into––and to be willing to express that as part of my obedience, I knew I wouldn't please everyone. But I know that no matter what I do or say, some will agree and some will disagree. So my measure had to be obedience to what he was doing in my heart and leading me to. It was terribly freeing and terrifying at the same time. But is that not faith in the "One who cannot be fully grasped?"

Again, thanks for your words. Feel free to rant anytime!!

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:32:51 -0000

Matt - I was thinking more about your question. Thanks again for "grounding" this discussion to the world we live and have our being. Perhaps my approach will be, "Caleb, there are some stories that I am not sure if they are real or not, but let's look at the heart of the story. What do you suppose God was telling us through it?" So the question becomes less, is this fiction or not (in some cases, we truly do not know), but what is the heart of its message.

Re: A Mending Shift » Wisdom from Shel - The Search

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:22:53 -0000

By the way Nicole......I really do appreciate all of our dialogue. Your words are important and I am growing and learning from them. You challenge me to really think and I do sense your heart. Sure, there are times, especially as an INFP, that I get flustered and irritated, but even that points to something and growth emerges. And then I read all the anger and hate and pain that is being spewed all over the blogosphere and I breath a sigh of relief that our conversation has not been that. You and others are my "iron" that help sharpen me. Our swords may look different and God is directing us on different paths and calling us to do different things, but that's the beauty of the Body. If we were all Nicoles, that would be as boring as if we were all Jeromys. So don't loose hope in us who are different then you. Just trust us to him as you trust yourself to him. Let's dialogue. Let's agree. Let's disagree. Let's laugh. Let's yell (politely). Let's cry. Let's pray. Let's be frineds. Let's be siblings in Christ. But most importantly, let's follow his lead in our lives and learn how to walk together in loving him and our neighbor.

Don't pull back from our dialogue. If it seems like I am treating you disrescpectfully, please say so. But I, and others reading this, need your words. And you need ours. Together, we make a fuller whole than apart.

Peace and grace to you!

Re: A Mending Shift – A Look Behind the Curtain

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:29:50 -0000

Thanks Aaron...so true. We need to live the "hows and whats" of his leading for us as individuals. To know the good and not do it, that is sin. We fall short, but that does not change his love for us. His anger is appeased and our sins are covered. Great news. Almost to good to be true.........almost. I'll check out your blog...

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:20:01 -0000

Thanks for clarifying, Nicole. Apology accepted. You are right, the world-church that is emerging (whatever name we label the change that is taking place) is very diverse...which is part of the beauty of what the Spirit is doing.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:42:52 -0000

The first says that today Jesus is telling him the truth, right then...like "today I am telling you something."

The second says that the man will be with Jesus today in paradise...he'll die and instantly be with Jesus in paradise.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:25:05 -0000

The Eye of Sauron is watching :-)

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:26:00 -0000

By the way, John Holmes--thanks for your Greek insight, again. YTM!

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:44:48 -0000

LOL! Hah...I finally got you!! Nice. I feel as if I have grammatically "arrived".

No judgment here, I had to check with my dictionary before posting to make sure.

What are the eternal ramifications of a coma? Well—some would say—if you never wake up to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior before you die; that has eternal ramifications. Very hot ones.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:37:53 -0000

Wow? Should I ask what you mean or leave it be?

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:16:03 -0000

Matty and others......re-reading my comment about coma, it was hasty. While there are many who believe that if someone in coma dies without accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior they will spend eternity in hell, separated from God, these people are sincere, genuine, God-fearing men and women who would never take that fact lightly. All I meant to do is cast light onto a, I believe, nasty theology. Forgive my hastiness...In no way did I mean to take lightly or joke about people in coma who die. But it does raise a question, what of them? If my 5 year old goes into coma for 15 years then dies, what of him?

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:18:58 -0000

David - Thanks for your words. I am simply trying to express and fully lean into what God is doing in my heart. Quick question of curiosity, you said, "I have made many of the same observations to other people in my community, much to no avail." What community and how has it been been to no avail?

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:28:01 -0000

Jon - I'm really not bothered one way or another where the comma goes, I just found it interesting the history behind this text and how it has been used by both sides to argue their theology. It was meant to put a crack in the thinking that our personal theologies (paradigms, beliefs) do not shape how we translate and interpret the Bible. They do. That's OK. God is big enough to absorb our limitedness, even when it comes to translating his words. I know I have a lot he has forgiven me for, translators are no different. We do our best to follow how we sense he is leading us to live and/or translate. The rest is covered by a hell of a lot of grace......

But maybe (devil's advocate) he was saying "amen" to the fact that he was simply going to be with him in paradise, today or sometime. Like I said, I do not envy their job. Damned if you do it one way, damned if you do it the other. At least by those is the power of the given theology your messin' with.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:24:47 -0000

I hear what they and you are saying, probably more so in the States and Western countries. But then again, emergent or no emergent, Sunday morning across the U.S. is not the most racially diverse time of the week. But what I am also seeing is two things. There is Emergent Village which is a loose organization of friends, cohorts and think tanks here in the U.S. Then there is the emerging global-church. If we go to South America, or Africa, or Korea, we see that this change that's emerging is very diverse, racially and theologically. I was just listening to a conversation with Tony Jones and this aspect of whiteness in Emergent is, not worrisome, but causes him to long for more reconciliation in regards to race. Unfortunately, we have many years of traditional church segregation (not forced, but more cultural) to begin trying to heal and restore. Not an easy task.

I'm not sure if my years attending youth ministry played a role (perhaps, I just am not aware of it). But my more recent years of seeing the traditional model of YM (games, events, fun stuff, short school lesson, etc.) fail to reach non-churched kids in our city. That dissatisfaction forced me to really look at what we were doing, why we were doing, what is God calling us to do, what is it that they are longing for, why do we try to educate instead of engage them spiritually? etc. That played a big part.

You?

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:42:21 -0000

Oh, I see what you’re saying. The “being catered to” effects of youth ministry. Sadly, it isn’t just a YM thing anymore. The church has become a feeder/purveyor of spiritual and not-so-spiritual services and goods.

There’s that darn ego thing you keep speaking of. What is that? I keep trying to find mine but with no luck. LOL. You mean even our spiritual motivations aren’t pure and God accepts and graces them none-the-less?

I don’t know Jon, you’re a pretty seedy looking guy judging from your Avatar…I would probably jump you if you were walking in my hood ;-) . Under the surface, I think what you are saying is also playing in my decision to go into probation or not. It is not an easy or simple decision thinking about working in Juvenile Hall. What new pond are you speaking of jumping into?

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:26:37 -0000

Ego; to say one is without it is proof that one has it. I jest.

Oh, you know the one I speak of......the proof is the image etched in my mind. Long flowing brown hair, brown leather jacket...

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:34:03 -0000

Thank you for sharing a bit of your story...I always love hearing people's stories. What you say is true...thier faith becoming my faith. I also think the emerging thing must act as the glue that helps brings denominations together in order to serve God and his mission to a world who needs to hear, believe and fully live in God's love and forgiveness.

Regarding Raquel, she is truly one who eats and drinks and talks to and helps heal sinners and prostitutes and prisoners and "down-and-out-ers". I have a tremandous amount of respect for who she is and what she does in trying to live Jesus out in the the lives of others. I honestly feel I have a lot to learn from her...both her words and actions. I also honestly feel that she is just trying to understand, listen and learn (and at time debate ;-) ) about the things we are discussing. We disagree at times, but I still consider her a friend and sister.

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:51:20 -0000

Thanks for sharing your words.

"choices we have made and our inability to take responsibility for those actions...if we don’t step up and face the consequences we’ll follow this spiral to its inevitably dark end." Well said.

It seems to methat for too long traditional faith has either blamed others (sinners or Adam and Eve) or just believed its all going to burn anyway, so why bother. We need to indeed step up, own our crap and help clean it up...all of it, not just the "spiritual" consequences, but also the social and enviromental ones as well.

I'm glad you stumbled in. Feel free to stumble in and converse anytime...

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:21:39 -0000

Huge...LOL. I too ask what a hugs-boulder is.

Very good, indeed. So, according to The Fall, humanity went from exceedingly good to not-good-at-all.

Somewhat. More about the notion of a "sudden cliff-like fall where sin 'entered' into the world" vs. the "gradual effects of our decisions to choose our own way". Plus a bunch of other stuff. The fact that "God loves us and not mad at us" was an aside for this post, all though a very important one. I debated whether or not to include it for fear it might cause people to miss the focus of the post.

Re: Jesus Laughed

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:43:06 -0000

A very humorous animal indeed.

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:15:26 -0000

Well, I can't speak for this emerging thing, but to say that it is very diverse in the U.S. alone, not to mention globally. Many different people, traditions and beliefs are represented. Beyond saying that, I don't know. The question is simular to asking, "So tell me, what are the people in California like?"

I do. And he is very good at getting people to choose thier will over God's will.

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:16:06 -0000

And no, I do not hug boulders or trees. ;-)

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:18:37 -0000

One thing I like about this "new" thing is that they really want to get back to the "old" things but live them out today, with their neighbors.

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:00:49 -0000

Sure. This is not my doctrine statement (I don't have one). This is in conversation to your statements:

- Our paths do not limit or define God or his actions.
- God is God, regardless what we call him. There is only one.
- Jesus’ purpose was to do many things (more on that later), among which was extending forgiveness.
- Hell might not be literal.
- The literal portions of the Bible are to be taken literally; the portions that were not intended to be literal should not be takes as such.
- Parts of the OT are stories passed down.
- The Bible is the inspired Word of God that is a wonderful tool in helping us know him (and us) and should not be worshiped.
- Spirituality is found in many places.
- Repentance (turning and living differently) is necessary when we choose to live our will, not his. True repentance helps us re-align our way with God’s way.
- Sin is destructive and deadly. People see this. Most people realize their crap and hurt…but most do not realize that God loves and forgives them…as they are, not as they will once be.
- As we live Jesus’ way, we also converse about Jesus’ way, his love and forgiveness. Seeing, after all, is believing. Words are important. So are deeds. Our deeds need to align with our words, otherwise people will stop listening to our words, like they are today. They want to see love, not just hear about it. Yes, the best way to show Jesus is to live Jesus.

I am sure you see these otherwise, but I hope this helps understand a bit more of at least where I am at.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:02:45 -0000

I agree...some are trying to re-align with the "Old" ways, in new ways.

That's because your here! ;-)

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:53:02 -0000

Your turn. Going from your list, what do you believe Raquel?

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:40:53 -0000

BTW, I'll respond to your new questions, but after you.

But on number 4, you say "Gotcha on that one?" Is that was this is really about? To get me? If so, please tell me so I can pass and move on.

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:08:24 -0000

LOL......got to love the miscommunication of the all-mighty keyboard. Thank you for clearing that up...I was about to come down off the witness stand. By the way, be sure to wipe you monitor off from your snort.

Re: Why On Earth Did Jesus Come?

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:47:42 -0000

Good question. The limit is not because the rest of srcipture doesn't have anything to say about Jesus' purpose, it is just to limit the scope of THIS POST to what Jesus himself said for why he came. It if for focus reasons, not "the gospels are the only sources for Jesus' purpose" reasons. It is to focus on the question: What does Jesus himself say for why he came? Does that make sense?

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:21:08 -0000

Thanks for sharing what you believe. I am quickly learning not to assume what others belief. If through our dialogue your beliefs are further reinforced, then that’s good. My goal here is not to change people, but to express my questions and what God is doing in my heart, and to provide a safe atmosphere where others can do the same. If people change or are challenged or are encouraged or better love God and others, then that’s great. Those things are up to God, not me.

Regarding my beliefs, I did share them in my first responses. That is what I believe. I am sure 20 years from now, I will believe differently in certain regards. In addition, I have posted close to 100 posts in which I have expressed my beliefs and feelings (I am sure you’ve read most of them). Some of them are very specific to the questions you raise. Where that is the case, I will simply provide a link.

My hunch is that part of the reason why you do not understand where I am coming from is because we are coming from different places. My beliefs are in part shaped by my personal journey with God. Your journey is different than mine. Your questions are different than mine. I am Ok with certain tensions. I am Ok with not having everything nailed down or neatly packaged with a bow. I am Ok with “not knowing” with 100% certainty all the answers. You might be as well, but a lot of your follow up questions were trying to obtain certainty. I cannot release the tension for you. I cannot resolve your feelings of uncertainly. I cannot get rid of the mystery of God. Its not my job. So, all I can simply do is share how I see things; if you understand, great…if you don’t, I don’t expect you too. That’s not a slam like you’re an idiot, it is simply saying that you have not walked where I have walked or experienced what I have experienced. Because of that, I expect you to think and feel and yea, even believe differently. And I am OK with that.
So here is a bit more into what I believe…

1. Regarding paths (the original question), perhaps God works on a completely different plain/level than we do. We have created a place with borders and labels and definitions. Perhaps, though he is aware of our paths, he says, “What paths? I just see a bunch of my kids on this planet I created.”
2. http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2007/11/13/th...
3. I did not elude a response. That is my response. Jonathan sums it up pretty well in his comment above. I feel we have for too long focused on the Sin/Salvation purpose of Jesus at the neglect of many others. His purpose was to do his Father’s will and to announce/model/bring the Kingdom of God to earth as it is in heaven.
4. http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/ge...
5. & 6. The parts that were meant to be. Can story still not be inspired by God? I believe so…very powerfully. http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/th...
7. If you mean literal, I believe not. If you mean inspired, I believe so. I do not believe the Bible was ever intended to be simply a collection of God-principles and God-propositions that we mine for.
8. I don’t know, you asked the question. The dictionary says: The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual. We are spiritual beings and I do think that God’s spirit can connect with our spirit in many ways and places (close to question #1).
9. Repentance means “to-turn”…you’re walking one way (your will) and you turn to the other (God’s will). God’s forgiveness is not dependent on us. It is his to give. The relationship is more restored when we do say sorry.
10. Sin is not a “thing”…yes, it is a choice to go against God and his will. When we do, it can be very destructive and deadly.
11. I believe he does. If love all three of my kids, how much more so him… http://mendingshift.wordpress.com/2007/11/28/ro...
12. People, both next-door and those living on soil different than ours, need to hear they are loved and forgiven so they can begin to personally live in and experience his love and forgiveness.

But the difficulty with lists like this is that they are very limited (we are complex beings) and a lot of times they act as check- or hit-lists. So, this is in a small part, who I am and what I believe...for what it’s worth.

By the way, any comments about the actual post besides my errors?

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:20:56 -0000

No, but some things are better left unsaid. ;-)

Re: It Was Good…Never Perfect

Jeromy — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:59:04 -0000

I like your orange-peel-protection analogy.

"Good" was simply the launching point into looking at our notion of The Fall. It was not the point, but helped point to the point.

I would push it one step further. We pretend to be morally, socially and spiritually perfect. We tend to enter church as saints. We need to enter as common humans who've opened up to God's forgiveness and love. We need to leave as humans who have been encouraged to walk in and live out His love and forgiveness in this world filled with other fellow humans who need to see and hear God and his kingdom......as it is in heaven, but here on earth. Our beliefs must help us do this. If they don't, then our beliefs need to shift.

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:18:55 -0000

He must have read my blog -- I just wish he would have sited me as his source ;-)

Here is all six of his reflections:
1. De-throning science as the sole Story.
2. En-throning a subjectivity as part of the real Story.
3. Embracing a local story as part of the real Story.
4. Epistemic humility about what one concludes from the Bible.
5. Acceptance of myth and fiction as capable of truth-telling.
6. Admission of cultural influence on all texts, even the Bible.

Thanks for sharing!

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:51:59 -0000

Thanks for sharing Matt.

Re: Jesus Laughed

Jeromy — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:00:08 -0000

LOL...makes you wonder if they ever went skinny-dippin'.

Re: Eternal Ramifications of the Comma

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:01:11 -0000

No problem, friends do that. You can send my coffee to my home address! ;-)

Re: An Added Voice…

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:09:22 -0000

Trust, Yes. Sacred, No. That's what freinds do...trust (just don't say anything I might disagree with...LOL ;-) )

Re: An Added Voice…

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:22:39 -0000

Na...just teasing. You have cart blanche, my friend, cart blanche (I think that’s how you spell it).

Re: Fusion—A Story of Embracing Change and Spirituality

Jeromy — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:17:32 -0000

Hi Michelle - To have a Junior a high school that loves the Lord is a great gift. I hear you when you say youth group was your home away from home - it was mine too. But a lot has changed in the culture since we were teens and there seems to be many reasons why teens are not connecting as well with the church. I've highlighted just a few reasons in my post. Can I ask a couple clarifying questions?

Does he say why he doesn't want to go to youth group? In relation to not going to youth group, what does he mean when he says he is connected online?

Re: Fusion—A Story of Embracing Change and Spirituality

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:04:21 -0000

Yea, moving to a new church home can be pretty difficult at this age…especially for the more introverted type. I suppose it might be a combination of both grieving the loss and being a Junior with a little more than one more year left. At this age, my opinion would be to give him the freedom to make this decision on his own as you begin releasing him back to God. As a parent, it is sometimes really hard to trust and hope in God regarding our kids. Is the old youth group in the same area, or did you move?

The internet is both a blessing and a curse. It has radically changed the world (publishing, finance, purchasing, communication, etc.) and its influence and is not going away. But through it, I personally have been reconnected with friends I have not talked to in close to a decade and have made new friends…both of which has been a blessing. Much like when the phone was introduced (people did not like the impersonal-ness of it back then), over time the internet will become the norm of communication (I think for your son’s generation, it already has). Monitor it, but realize that for him, this is a way to really communicate and connect. Also like the phone, I don’t see the internet replacing face-to-face contact altogether…maybe supplementing it. There is still a need for interpersonal community, and he realizes this. It sounds like he is getting a lot of that community though his drama group…and that’s okay.

Re: Fusion—A Story of Embracing Change and Spirituality

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:47:46 -0000

You're welcome. It's hard sometimes letting our kids make their own decision, especially when they aren't the same ones we would make. All part of growing up and becoming independent. My oldest is 7 years-old so I know what I get to look forward to... ;-)

Blessings and reach-out anytime (ironic, I agree).

Re: Fusion—The Memoirs 1

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:32:40 -0000

It never ceases to amaze me how close to the surface our “stuff” floats, even as adults. Wait ‘till you read some of the others…this is just the primer. You’re welcome, yo. ;-)

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:03:53 -0000

Matt - Canada?

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:05:06 -0000

JR - Independent the party, or truly independent? I went undisclosed, but I am not sure of CA is going to let me vote in the primaries...do you know?

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:33:33 -0000

Yea, gotta love our freedom to vote. "You're free to vote as long as you register to vote for these guys...You're free as long as you let us control you." Maybe if enough people refuse to declare, the'll have to change their policies...but I'm not holding my breath. Perhaps I'll just move to Michagin...

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:47:41 -0000

Raquel...so if I hear you correctly, you think it's LAME? It's all about control (funny how that seems to be the oposite of freedom, but, whatever).

Honestly, I am so up in the air right now. How do you REALLY find out about their character and what they stand for? I'll see which two are left standing after all the smoke clears and decide from there.

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:48:44 -0000

Jr...you may want to change your picture lest your dirty-little-secret gets out :-)

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:54:06 -0000

I still say its about control, or at least trying to control (control, after all, is just an illusion). Of course, they'll never admit to it. We, cynical?

Great quote...that is the exact reason why I am not running for president!!...LOL. Would you vote for me if I did?

I am going to vote purely by either gender or race. Oh, and also by my emotions; come Election Day, whatever mood I am in is how I will vote.

(If you cannot feel the sarcasm OOZING, you're beyond hope for a career in sarcasm-detection)

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:44:29 -0000

"It isn’t just the race/sex thang but about how quickly that we can screw the rest of the world by only taking care of ourselves." What do you mean by that?

btw, why not? It's cause I am a white male, huh?

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:59:03 -0000

I'd vote for you, but I decided a long time ago that I would not vote for a president who is taller than me. Sorry..just a matter of principle.

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:31:05 -0000

"we whine if we don’t intervene and whine if we do."...so well said.

"human rights for the WORLD for every single HUMAN"...another one. You should run!

So if I didn't run, would you put my name down? ;-)

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:34:31 -0000

According to the Mormans he was a US citizen!

I think you, me and Jesus would all be under age to run...what is it, 35+ years-old? (The earlthy Jesus, that is...it gets really strange if you take into account his ever-exsistence age. Maybe like doggy-years, we could have Jesus-years).

Re: About

Jeromy — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:24:26 -0000

Thanks. I'll swing by your site...

Re: Reformed: Tabled for Another Time & Perhaps, Another Place

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:24:37 -0000

Hi Paul, I hear you...and believe me, I'd love to write more here but I am going to do it off-line for now with another medium in mind.

Perhaps approach it like this: in the above areas, which one strikes you personally as needing reform and if so, how? What are some specific ways you envision the theme being done within your context?

Re: A Mending Shift » D-Day, February 15th

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:32:44 -0000

Me too partially, but I am taking it offline with the goal of another medium in mind. I need to chew on them. The thing with blogging is that it is so immediate, but sometimes things come with time. For me it is also an exercise in self-control, patience, and delay of instant gratification.

But that doesn't prevent you from dreaming or running with some.

Re: A Mending Shift » D-Day, February 15th

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:08:00 -0000

Thanks Raquel. So more like a gummy bear? Or silly putty (remember that stuff growing up?)?

Re: Reformed: Tabled for Another Time & Perhaps, Another Place

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:13:22 -0000

At times it is pretty painful. At times the people can be pretty beautiful, through his grace, in spite of the system. What of these themes do you dream about being re-formed?

Re: A Mending Shift » D-Day, February 15th

Jeromy — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:05:05 -0000

Of that, I am confident. The devil is in the details. So, we trust...

Yea, but those are gross and slimy!!

Have good trip to Africa. When do you leave?

Re: A Mending Shift » D-Day, February 15th

Jeromy — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:51:38 -0000

what happens...?

Re: 103.1

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:45:30 -0000

Oh, man...that's near death!! Yea, bummer...so last day, do you know what you'll be doing?

I topped off at 103.2 then lived on Nyquil for the rest of the day. I doing a bit better, still have a fever but not nearly as high.

Re: When God’s Generosity Infuriates Us!!

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:04:19 -0000

And we don't like it, do we?

The cool thing is that he accepts and extends grace to both the prodigal and his brother (though it remains to be seen what his brother chose, the story leaves him in the field—did he eventually come back into the house to party or did he let his anger and jealousy get the best of him?)...they are both his kids.

On a bit of an aside, here is a thought from Philippians, "Because of that obedience, God lifted him [Jesus] high and honored him far beyond anyone or anything, ever, so that all created beings in heaven and on earth—even those long ago dead and buried—will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ, and call out in praise that he is the Master of all, to the glorious honor of God the Father."

What do you do with that? Even if you believe that God's forgiveness is granted after we believe, than all will bow in worship and call out in praise anyhow that Jesus is the Master of all...to the Glory of God...thus triggering God's grace. Either way, he seems far more generous than our theology gives him credit...

Re: When God’s Generosity Infuriates Us!!

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:21:05 -0000

And when all is said and done, and we all bow before Jesus and call out in praise to him, we enter into his shalom? Is that a good summary of what you're saying in regards to Philippians?

Re: Are You a Republican or Democrat?

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:56:08 -0000

Wait, if you're not born, how are you commenting? MY MAC IS POSSESSED!! Away from me Matty-the-Canadian-Devil!

Stick with cornfused.

Re: When God’s Generosity Infuriates Us!!

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:59:32 -0000

No way...you're a deep thinker. Which is good because I find myself reading and re-reading your thoughts to get to the deeper meaning.

Re: 103.1

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:20:34 -0000

106.5? Did she go to the hospital? That is really bad...

Re: When God’s Generosity Infuriates Us!!

Jeromy — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:53:33 -0000

Welcome cj,

I too am grateful that he loves us enough to welcome us home and embrace us in his love, failings and all.

Donald Miller is a good writer...I've enjoyed him. Have you listened to many of Rob's podcasts? If not, worth a listen: http://www.marshill.org/teaching/index.php

Re: Democrats Welcome Independent Wild-Cards; Republicans…Nope

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:33:18 -0000

Hey Matt (there is another Matt that visits here too, so I always have to dig to see which one is which...perhaps use Matt S, Sampson, or go for the Folcaltron throwback, Simpson?)

Soooo true. We love our labels, don't we; political, social, and religious ones abound. If we can label you, then we can decide if you are friend or foe; if you can be trusted or not; if you're one of 'them' or one of 'us'. But even being an independent carries its own label and stereotypes to be sure. I wonder what they are?

The irony seems to be this: it seems much EASIER to vote for party lines. Voting independent is at times much more difficult because you don't just blindly check the [R] box or the [D] box; not saying that if you belong to a party you're an idiotic minion, but it is an easier temptation to simply vote party lines across the board. But I agree, "the best job as a whole…even if I disagree with that person on certian issues…(gasp!)."

To me, that's the bad-fruit of the party lines. We tend to vilify any president, past or present, who is not part of our party and deify any president who is; regardless of who they are as person or as a president. Carter and Reagan seem to be a classic cases of this. I have been so guilty of this too! That sounds like a good book.

WOW, the party that likes it both ways? Between that and my 'purple' vote, people might read into this...

Re: Democrats Welcome Independent Wild-Cards; Republicans…Nope

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:42:25 -0000

Jesse ~ Yea, each state operates differently. Everything I read and was able to dig up said this was the case in California. I just sited two sources. In fact, even on Ron Paul's site (an independent) they said that if you want to vote for Ron you would need to register as a Republican. But, if anyone has found other sources that bring more information to the table, please do so. I may have missed them...

Re: Democrats Welcome Independent Wild-Cards; Republicans…Nope

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:17:18 -0000

Matt S.....Matt S....? Not ringing a bell. Who are you?

You're wit-meeter is slipping in your old age ;-)

Ughhhhh, probably not God. But who knows, with the kick-ass team the three of us make, we could revolutionize the golf industry. But to really succeed we would need Woo, Fill and John (a.k.a. Milton).

Or not.

Re: Democrats Welcome Independent Wild-Cards; Republicans…Nope

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:24:54 -0000

Allow me to pre-welcome you to the country of NorCal. Be sure to pay homage.

Re: Odwalla and Emergent

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:28:33 -0000

I thought of you and laughed hard when writing this: "like butter on a bald monkey’s head"—do you remember that?

Are you sure that is not a satirical site? ;-) Sounds a lot like the other one. It really saddens me...as if homosexuality is worst than other sins. If just happens to be one WE don't, nor ever will, struggle with so its easy for us to judge. I'd love to see those kind of responses to materialism, pride, or gluttony. Not holding my breath though.

We have a LOOONG way to go in healing our neighborly relationships with the homosexual community that we have demonized, hurt, and marginalized. It has been a prayer of mine for a while that God would bring a friendship my way with a homosexual in hopes of some empathy and reconciliation.

Thanks for sharing your heart.

Re: Odwalla and Emergent

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:51:04 -0000

I totally remember that night! I even remember us circling up with those gentlemen (who were wearing heels and towered over us—and I'm 6'2") who said that they loved Jesus and that they were drawn by the love he showed. It shocked my young theological system. Remember some of our friends (who will remain unnamed) who thought we were out of our minds and wanted nothing to do with it?

Oh, that room was thumpin'. Sooo many people in that little conference room. To this day, I could have sworn I saw Reggie there...LOL...oh, man, that was a good memory. It was funny how accepting they were of us, knowing we were Christians...we can learn a lot from them. That night really helped soften my heart as well.

One of my mentor's sons is gay and lives on the East Coast. Needless to say, my mentor has grown through it and goes to a church with a good sized gay community.

Re: Odwalla and Emergent

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:06:36 -0000

Sooo, what are you saying regarding older ladies who play the organ? That's all I have known who played the organ...

Re: Odwalla and Emergent

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:53:24 -0000

Do you see how important our personal context is when making and interpreting statements? A great case-in-point.

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:15:22 -0000

Wow...Your fingers must hurt from all that typing.

By the way, Microsoft is the best!! I love PCs and their security updates. Apple sucks and their little postmodern spokesperson would get whooped by the Microsoft nerd guy in a cage match. And don't get me started on Vista vs. Leopard...

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:59:19 -0000

What hell? :-)

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:10:46 -0000

Oh, you meant Gehenna...Ok, let's talk ;-)

LOL...oh, the memories.

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:12:12 -0000

Interesting article. I like what he said, "What the New Testament really says is God wants you to be a renewed human being helping him to renew his creation, and his resurrection was the opening bell."

To me, it is less about where we'll be and more about who we'll be with. Like my wife, I could care less if we are in a house or on the streets, as long as we are together.

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:30:48 -0000

Elle...nice. How about a room full of men being taught by a woman while handling snakes waiting for the hat to be passed so they can tithe and pay the woman's salary who is teaching them.

Snakes suck and tithing rules!

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:33:53 -0000

Nicole...agh, but there will be a new heaven and earth. I see creation as including us humans (we seriously need restoration and renewal) as well as the rest of creation. Do you think it is part of our job to take care of the earth/animals/environment as followers of God?

Re: Now THIS is Valentine’s Day!

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:43:33 -0000

Aniche ~ So true.

Laurel ~ The first is the girl's legend, the second is the guy's legand. Hmmm, goldfish...never thought of that...how big are they? LOL

Re: Now THIS is Valentine’s Day!

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:43:33 -0000

Aniche ~ So true.

Laurel ~ The first is the girl's legend, the second is the guy's legand. Hmmm, goldfish...never thought of that...how big are they? LOL

Re: I Need Your Help…

Jeromy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:07:38 -0000

Ohhhh, just hearing that song makes me feel happy (and wanting to go to Disneyland). I can't wait...it has been too long...what are you doing May 22nd?

Or...we can talk about this: http://www.golfachiever.com/

Re: Just Another Gold-Tooth-Cleaner-Guy

Jeromy — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:04:58 -0000

Funny that God told him to go evangelize a group of Christians...shows our humanity and capacity for spiritual error. Good insight into witnessing to strangers vs. friends. The later is at times much tougher, but much more real, respectful and potentially fruitful.

People never liked to be seen as "projects" or people to be "won", do they? Ugh, and to think of the times in my past when I used these approaches...

Re: Just Another Gold-Tooth-Cleaner-Guy

Jeromy — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:17:34 -0000

I did take that class and I remember the experience vividly (so does Jen...she says it was one of the most uncomfortable classes she ever took). I am sure I came across as one...in fact I am convinced of it. They probably saw us coming from a mile away. In fact, the guy I was with (we went with partners) saw a group of cute college girls, kept walking then stopped and said, "No, that is wrong. Why should we not witness to them because they are beautiful?" So he turned around and went to witness to them, with me following. Ugh...can we say mixed motives?

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:00:22 -0000

I think part of it is a very human thing, which is the fear that if I let go of this belief, or label, or box...I will loose my sense of control (even "control" is a false construct in our own mind...not a reality). But if we resist the need to label, almost making "not labeling" a spiritual practice, then perhaps we will begin to see ourselves and the other person, first and foremost, as human—a creation and child of God, whom he loves.

I think you are very correct in saying "this is how wars starts." Labels help us in objectifying (viewing the other as an object) people different than us which often translates into ghastly and unthinkable deeds. The Holocaust, slavery, native American slaughter,and the Crusades quickly come to mind.

Frustration shared...

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:08:03 -0000

Thank you Tracy for you candor and honesty. I deeply resonate with what you shared...ugh. Labels can deeply wound and are almost certain death to true relationship.

"When we (I!) label someone, it’s as though we won’t look at the whole heart, but just a portion of them and say, “That’s who they are” as if a label could sum up the person in their entirety." We form images (labels) of the "other" and act as if the image is reality. Though, as you said, these images (labels) are incomplete, this does not prevent us from holding onto them, at times, quite firmly. You said it very well!

Icky and Yuck pretty much sum it up. Good luck with your brain circuits and let me know how it goes ;-) !

Question: Do you suppose God operates in the realm of our labels and distinctions or above/beyond them? I struggle with this one...

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:42:43 -0000

Thanks for that picture, Matty.

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:44:15 -0000

So I saw this new diagram and cracked up...(go to the bottom): http://aboulet.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/mapping...

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:00:31 -0000

Great ramblings...really got me thinking. Yea he did throw around a few good names, didn't he. It's funny how it seemed to always be aimed at self-righteous religious people who tended to judge and categorize people (sinners [with vast sub-categories], lepers, Samaritans, women, gentiles...). At times it was almost like he was saying, "You say all these people are going to hell, let me tell you whose going to hell..." and then quickly flipped their labels up-side-down and said "you travel land and sea to win a single convert and then make them twice a child of hell as you." As I think out loud here, it seems as if he toyed with our labels (and created [possibly] some of his own) to communicate deeper points...

I agree that there is a human need for labels to help us identify, communicate, and understand...after all, EVERY word is an image and label—just a bunch of lines and squiggles we have given meaning to. As I type this, I am using something that has multiple labels: machine, computer, MAC, laptop, Leopard OSX, keyboard, etc. But as you said, when dealing with people and groups, that our partial image defines them in their entirety allowing us to dismiss or judge or....

A semi-radical thought I have: Though God obviously is aware of our labels and grouping and boundaries and camps, perhaps he sees the world much like an astronaut—just land, sea, air—and he sees us much like I see all three of my kids—though they have labels and names, they are all simply my kids whom I created (or helped create) and love very deeply. We see earth divided into countries, religions, races, genders, ages, social classes, etc. Perhaps he see a gorgeous globe filled with his beautiful kids—who, like any kid, misbehaves and exercises independence, but are still their parent's kid.

Ugh...so how does God see us? My brain is now smoking...

Try this...next time you're in a public place, look (really look) at the people around you and try not to label them (gender, age, race, clothes, etc.) and simply view everyone walking around as God's kid, whom he created and loves. Curious to hear what happens in your heart...

Re: A Story of Windows and Reality

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:45:24 -0000

Thanks for stopping by and reading—Glad it spoke to you.

Re: A Story of Windows and Reality

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:09:39 -0000

Scary...Awesome...Desirous. I fully agree.

Wow, 18 days...so soon! Hopefully you'll like Redding.

Re: Emergent Heresy

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:45:08 -0000

Ugh...it gets downright ugly. And to think that it's done in Jesus' name—he who didn't burn those who disagreed with him, even though he could have. Perhaps he was trying to say something...

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:40:28 -0000

Old Mack ~ Thanks for your words. You seem like a good, lighthearted person who loves to encourage. I'm glad you enjoyed your visit. Blessings!

Re: Emergent Heresy

Jeromy — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:46:59 -0000

lol...Fireball on FOX. Thanks for the good laugh this morning, I needed it!

Wait, you're saying Jesus told us to love our enemies?......Not kill them? Common, you're just being silly now ;-)

Re: When PART is Mis-taken as WHOLE

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:05:44 -0000

Lord willing......but chances are, OUR will will win out from time to time. That is when we fall into his love and grace, learning to extend that to our judgers.

I'm glad you and your husband had a wonderful conversation last night. Thanks for sharing!

Re: The Rats in Our Rafters…

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:59:04 -0000

Nayni ~ Your words of addition are welcome anytime. Where did you find those quotes? Great stuff!!

Re: The Rats in Our Rafters…

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:13:42 -0000

I can really appreciate your love for animals. My son actually had two pet rats when he was younger (Spot and Sunkey) and we had to make a tough decision to 1) let one of them die naturally because of a LARGE tumor and have my son find him dead in the cage (or worst yet, have the other rat eat him), or 2) Euthanize him in the night...not easy decisions—especially with kids involved.

But as far as the rats in our garage...they were destroying everything, making the place smell HORRIBLE, and with two young kids and a dog, we couldn't risk whatever they the rats might be carrying. So yea, they're not around anymore...just a decision we made. They were cute though...

So the opossum, what might have caused him more pain then starving to death and dehydrating in a box on your patio? Just couldn't help but mention the irony I saw ;-) .

Thanks for reading and sharing! Blessings...

Re: Living Outside the Saltshaker, Revisited…

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:18:20 -0000

Hear, hear...and I ignored God's voice. Ugh. :-(

Re: The Rats in Our Rafters…

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:08:13 -0000

Good to hear. Sounds like a great place to live.

Re: Living Outside the Saltshaker, Revisited…

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:00:18 -0000

So true. Thanks for your kindness.

Re: Not Labeling is Freakin’ Hard!

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 21:46:28 -0000

Hmmm...very insightful. Its amazing how much we can learn from children. Your story brought a chuckle out of me and then sunk in at the end. What a terrific analogy...thanks for sharing!

So I guess for the Shack, the thing we can focus on is the fact that we both read the book... ;-) lol

Re: Pig vs. Maggots

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:27:36 -0000

Seriously...I'm hearing ya. Or like Pumba sings in The Lion King: "Are your achin'...[chomp, chomp, chomp]...for some bacon."

I will tell my son that you say "thanks"! ;-)

Re: Not Labeling is Freakin’ Hard!

Jeromy — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:02:10 -0000

"One of us is right, or neither of us is right, or we both have some things right, but there is a right." ~ God is right. No, but I agree with you. My comment was just a playful one about the Shack.

I too "want to see past those things that divide, and love anyways". You made perfect sense.

So, at this point, let's just disagree to agree ;-) ... lol, that kinda makes sense (kinda).

Re: Not Labeling is Freakin’ Hard!

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:58:58 -0000

Hi Ana and welcome to the blogosphere! A reverter, huh? LOL...that's a label I haven't heard yet. How about this one, a former "backslider"? That one always comes off well ;-) . Thanks for the chuckle this morning!

Re: Pig vs. Maggots

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:24:36 -0000

How did Chase like it? Boys will be boys...

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:20:20 -0000

Thanks for sharing that nugget, Dana. Blessings!

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:17:50 -0000

~ Mr. Bellator: I must say that the only thing better than the three worship chords (G-D-C [and the occasional Em]...correct?) is chompin' on three Testamints. LOL...I never knew they had their own website! Suddenly I am very self-conscious of my breath...thanks a lot!

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:34:40 -0000

Thanks Jon...and I don't say that lightly.

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:25:09 -0000

~ Jonathan: Thanks.

~ Nator: Great wordplay. It got me thinking...if the church were invisible, some would choose to disappear completely from it, while others would choose to live more visibly because of it and others would not be effected at all because they are already living invisibly-visible. I think I fall somewhere between the last two groups. Where would you fall?

Indeed, I too believe the world might be changed.

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:44:48 -0000

It did...that darn Akismet. Thanks for catching it.

"I’m seeing the bible and the words of Jesus with fresh eyes," . . . liberating, isn't it!! His burden is indeed light!

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:30:42 -0000

The Gospels and Jesus' ministry. My analogy is simply that. This whole decision stemmed from Jesus' heart and table ministry with "sinners" as expressed in the Gospels. Something just doesn't add up...

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:28:41 -0000

Thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts and prayer. I am glad that this post got you thinking and praying...it has me for a long time! Well said: "Lord, a meal is so intimate! How could we refuse to share Christ’s intimacy with those who REALLY NEED IT?"

Feel free to link and share away...

By the way, I really think that this theology stems from our medieval Catholic roots. They would say you need to belong to the Catholic church to dine with Jesus. Though we have softened it some, we still basically hold to the same theology: You need to be a part of the Christian church (have a relationship with Jesus) to dine with Jesus. So we are a BIT more inclusive than our Catholic siblings, but still pretty exclusive with Jesus' meal.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:11:13 -0000

~Anna~

Yea, it is very common. There is a term some use where they say "we practice open communion." This term varies in its meaning from church-to-church. To some it means just that...we are open for everyone to partake; for others it means we are open to people from other Christian faiths to partake.

Out of curiosity, how many churches did you check out that did not welcome everyone?

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:31:06 -0000

~Raquel~

It is because of Jesus that I have made this incredibly personal decision (so much so that I hesitated posting it). Besides the four people who actually read this post :-) , only Jesus and I know what I have decided and there is not one single "non-believer" that will ever notice, much less care. It is intimately between Jesus and me. It is because Jesus is my focus and priority that I have decided to fast. To me, this is a deeply personal act of putting Jesus first rather than a tradition that I believe breaks Jesus' heart—not the tradition of communion, but our tradition of exclusion.

This post was about a personal decision and conviction that I feel the Lord has led me to. You may not agree and that's OK...it really is. You need to follow his leading and conviction in your own life...as you are doing!

Well said: "But it’s not up to us…it’s up to Him." I couldn't agree more

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:23:28 -0000

To me, holiness is allowing God to restore me and embracing the light burden of Jesus. It is also trying to follow my daddy's leading and guidance in my life. It is not legalism.

I do not want to argue Bible verses with you, but the passage you brought up is a terrific example of pulling certain verses out of context and reading them through the lens of our own traditions. Verses 23-32 have a context around them, namely verses 17-22 and 33-34—all of which point to the fact that there were people abusing the meal of the Lord's supper. Paul opens with, "In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm then good." He then goes on to share how there were some who were gorging on food while others didn't get anything, "one person remains hungry and another gets drunk." Then in the end of the ENTIRE passage, Paul says these words: "So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. Those who are hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment." It seems very clear to me that the intent of Paul's words are addressing the divisions and abuses of those eating at Jesus' table then it is decreeing that "non-believers" cannot participate.

I believe that someone who is not aware of God's love for them can participate in a "worthy" manner. I see nothing within verses 23-32 that prohibits anyone from the table, especially when read within its context.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:10:29 -0000

Do you think Jesus would exclude anyone from sharing and enjoying a meal with him?

Holiness is allowing God to restore me. Restoration from sin is definitely part of it. Recognizing that he is my daddy and that he loves me regardless of anything I do is another.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:41:35 -0000

Indeed he did...[slowly nodding]...indeed he did.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:27:43 -0000

~ Steve ~

Do you think Jesus would exclude anyone from sharing and enjoying a meal with him?

What do we have to loose if we invite and allow all to the table with Jesus? Do you think Jesus is going to be mad? Can they not begin to experience the love and grace of Jesus by dining with him BEFORE they "believe"?

All Jesus said was this:
"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
Then he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins..."

Again, this is my own personal conviction based on what I know of Jesus' heart for sinners. I never said you judged people in communion. As I see it, if we are worried about God judging people ("Christian" and "non-Christian alike) because they take communion in an "unworthy" manner, then I suggest we leave that to him—He alone knows the heart. Who are we to decide who is allowed to share Jesus' meal and who doesn't? Let's trust him and his "judgment" as we extend grace to our co-humans. Who knows, we just might be surprised with who HE decides to eat with. Perhaps that is what we are afraid of.

But we obviously view God and Jesus very differently. Cool—when we see him face to face we'll find out we were both mistaken on a whole mess of stuff.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:33:48 -0000

~ Raquel ~

I am not trying to swing any pendulum. I am trying to follow Jesus and his example. He was madly in love with active sinners and he ate with them. Has he changed his mind?

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:08:16 -0000

Ron ~ Well said: "...Judas was allowed in. And if he was allowed in, who could we possibly exclude?" I believe this is a prime example of Jesus' heart to embrace, not exclude.

Re: Brennan Manning in Town

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:04:33 -0000

Thanks. The girl reminds me that I am simply a young child to my Daddy and that is how I must approach him. The man with his arms extended on the far hillside reminds me that this is my Daddy's expression of loving joy when he sees me. The hearts remind me that when all else is stripped away, this mending shift is really, at its core, about love and reclaiming a proper image of God and ourselves; namely that he loves us and is deeply fond of us—mess and all—and that our primary identity is a child of our Dad...each and every one of us!

Re: Brennan Manning in Town

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:38:09 -0000

~dpcpastor~

I can only imagine how that must have felt and the joy that washed over you. It is such a safe, peaceful place to be isn't it . . . as daddy's little boy?

Re: Brennan Manning in Town

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:53:46 -0000

Great Book. I loved the part where they set up a "confession booth" on their college campus and then THEY THEMSELVES confessed the sins of Christianity and asked for forgiveness from those who came in .

Re: LOVE IT!

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:06:59 -0000

You're such a nerd. ;-)

Re: LOVE IT!

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:40:15 -0000

I already do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL-yQ2GtsM

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:56:02 -0000

To me, there is no better way to honor, and remember, and give thanks then to carry on Jesus' expressed heart towards sinners. I fear we have remembered his "name" but neglected his "spirit" in the process. Perhaps as we invite them to the table, this act of inclusion will allow them to begin to experience Jesus in a new way so they can begin to remember and give thanks. From what I see in Jesus, he would not exclude them.

I am not sure if WE even really begin to understand God's covenant and its possible implications either. God's covenant seems to be more about his choosing then our choosing, and with Jesus' ministry, he definitely chose a whole bunch of people that the established religion rejected. Would he do the same in this case as well?

Judas was also served. I see Jesus teaching and creating a new meal-celebration with his disciples so when they gather after his death they can eat of his broken body and drink of his blood of forgiveness. If Jesus gave his body and blood for all, why can't we do the same with their symbolic elements?

To me, it comes back to this question: Would Jesus exclude anyone from sharing a meal with him? If not a common meal, how much less so a meal of such great importance for him and for us. This is the heart.

I fear I have not much more to offer than what I have already written, both in the post and in the comments.

Re: LOVE IT!

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:00:13 -0000

LOL...I like your husband already!

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:30:15 -0000

Thanks Jonathan.

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:44:06 -0000

~ Tracy, breath deeply 'cause he loves you crazy-like! Thanks.

~ Nator, so am I.

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:22:43 -0000

James, if I were honest, most of what you said flew right over my head. I agree, however, that the "much more" is qualitative—it was the "all men" that was quantitative. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some good thought-food to chew on....

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:11:37 -0000

Sarah, very insightful. What's cool is that we still name the newly discovered animals today!

My wife and I are expecting our third child and we were name-shopping. As we looked to different cultures for names we noticed something. Some cultures pick a name for what it means (like your example), almost ignoring how it sounds. While our culture tends to pick a name based on how it sounds ("Be sure to say the first, middle, and last name together to see if it sounds good!") with little to no thought on the meaning. We saw it as a mirror of how surfacey our culture tends to be.

Well said: "But in severing connection with the Creator, man thinks he OWNS what he has named (and made). BIG MISTAKE." I see people getting hurt when all we see is their label and not their identity as someone who is created and loved by God. Centuries of heartbreak and wars follow...

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:51:28 -0000

Is that Dale Earnhardt?

As Paul said, "And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." / "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Soooooooooooo much bigger indeed!!

Re: Tony Jones’ Book Signing Goes Sour

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:22:07 -0000

Wow...thanks for the link Tony. However, I believe you owe me a new MacBook since it crashed from all the hits!

Re: If You Like Jokes…

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:04 -0000

What made this joke all the more funny was that my little girl was watching Finding Nemo and we had just watched that scene where Dori does her whale call. As I was laughing, my wife looked at me—lovingly—with that look of, "You're weird." I don't claim otherwise . . .

Re: Romans 5: How Much More in Jesus (2 of 2)

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:48:28 -0000

Other "All Men" passages:

1 Timothy 2:4 
...who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:6
... who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

1 Timothy 4:10 
...(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

Titus 2:11 
...For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

John 12:32
... But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Romans 5:18
... Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

Re: [Update] How Much More in Jesus: Romans 5

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:53:11 -0000

Tracy - Thanks for those links...I will take a look at them. Universalist is a very interesting label. It seems we are all universalists. Some are universalist in regards to sin and the effects (applies to everyone universally). Some are universalist in regards to grace and its effects ("). Here, Paul seems to think that it is both, with Jesus playing the trump card.

Universalism seems to say that everyone will be saved, regardless. I feel that God still allows for man's choice to accept or reject his forgiveness and love. But who, when standing before him—his love, his majesty, his glory, his fullness—could resist such love? I suppose there might be some people who will, but, as I once heard, that seems to be a "possible impossibility". Perhaps, perhaps not . . .

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Jeromy — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:37:29 -0000

~Kay~ 'Daddy' takes on a deeper, more personal meaning then Father, Heavenly Father, or Lord, doesn't it? Jesus called him Abba, or daddy—the first words of trust out of a baby's mouth. I am blessed that you were blessed.

Re: [Update] How Much More in Jesus: Romans 5

Jeromy — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:43:07 -0000

~Robert and Tracy~ In you own way, you both add a lot to the conversation. May we rest in Daddy's love for us and join him in his mission of love and restoration. May his Kingdom come, ON EARTH, as it is in heaven. Thanks for your words.

Re: [Update] How Much More in Jesus: Romans 5

Jeromy — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:11:02 -0000

Hey Mary! I enjoyed running into Ben in November, how are the others: Christine and Jennifer?

Sorry to hear about his royal-chewing-out response, sounds like an awkward situation. How did you respond?

Regarding your question, was that for me or just referring the man's use of the 'elect' in your story?

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:07:56 -0000

Marc ~ Well said and I agree. He does discipline his kids. Yet even his discipline of us is out of his love and is for the purpose of our restoration, not punishment. That even his restoration-discipline = love.

Re: 10,000

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:51:19 -0000

Thanks Tracy . . . it will.

Re: The Present of Today

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:54:49 -0000

Wow, I have never met a NASCAR driver that could write such prose!

"Living in the moment,
Not living for the moment."

There is a big difference between the two.

Cheers to embracing the present! [cling]

Re: Jesus, Who is My Neighbor Today?

Jeromy — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:08:43 -0000

Hmmmm . . . what if Osama is the next Paul (as in hater of Christianity who is restored by Jesus' love and then shares Jesus' love . . .)? Never thought of him in those possible terms. Yet regardless if he ever becomes a 'Paul' or not, he is still loved by God and he is still our neighbor. Thanks for leaving me with that thought! It helps me see him in new light.

We have peace indeed! Thank you God!

Re: 10,000

Jeromy — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:31:03 -0000

Yes mam! Alright, alright, I'll pray! Geeze! ;-)

Re: 10,000

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:54:43 -0000

Hi Robert and welcome. Thank you for your kind words. Blessing to you as well.

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:39:44 -0000

Grace being a free gift . . . hard to believe, isn't it? Even harder, I've experienced, to receive because I really want to do something to earn or pay for it.

I couldn't agree with Bonhoeffer more.

Re: 10,000

Jeromy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:05:10 -0000

Thanks Nator...it will.

Re: 33 . . .

Jeromy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:05:55 -0000

Thanks old man ;-)

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:19:18 -0000

Steve, curious to understand what you meant by "baptism without discipline."

Re: 33 . . .

Jeromy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:25:24 -0000

Now that's what I'm talking about! In Spain they set their clocks 2-hours ahead!! It was weird seeing the sun set at 10:00pm.

Re: Matthew 18 = Excommunicate or Embrace Again?

Jeromy — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:44:48 -0000

Perhaps. All I know is that I read it last night in The New Christians when Frank was going to Solomon's Porch and shared his insight during a gathering. Regardless, I had never thought of this passage in that light and it floored me. I'm still chewing on it.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:33:52 -0000

Hey Matt,

If I'm not mistaken, Christian Universalism says that all people will be reconciled despite their free will (in a nut shell). I personally believe that man can still reject God (however unlikely) and that he will honor their decision. They also hold that Satan and demons will be reconciled—I'll let God worry about this one.

On an interesting note, Wikipedia has this to say about Christian Universalism: "Universalism was a fairly commonly held view among theologians in early Christianity: In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Cesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality, and one (Carthage or Rome) taught the endless punishment of the lost. The two major theologians opposing it were Tertullian and Augustine. In later centuries, Universalism has become very much a minority position in the major branches of Christianity, though it has a long history of prominent adherents." see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconcil...

So in our century, a more universal view of Jesus' atonement and God's grace is not in vogue. But a universal view of Adam's sin is very much in vogue. In this sense, we are all universalists: some are universalists in regards to Adam's sin applying to all humanity; some are universalists in regards to God's grace applying to all humanity. Both apply something universally across all of humanity. I tend to think it's both.

By the way, an interesting read with these lenses on is 1 Corinthians 15, namely Paul's opening comments and verses 21-28

For me, it boils down to these two questions:
Does our belief (or repentance) trigger God's forgiveness of us?
Does our death prevent God from extending mercy to us?

Though I see labels as a distraction and causing more harm than good, one label I will gladly bear is this: Daddy's Little Boy ;-)

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:16:35 -0000

~Matt~

Out of curiosity, what did you mean when you said, "you continue to make me feel uncomfortable with all of this…which I believe is exactly what I need to feel."?

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:26:59 -0000

No worries, bro. You're correct that you 'jumping on board' is not an expectation of mine. You need to jump where God is leading you to jump. I just wanted to understand you and your heart more. I sensed you had more to say regarding your discomfort. We judge discomfort as being bad. Yet God seems to use it often as a tool for shaping (I wish he'd choose another one . . . on second thought, maybe not, the next one he grabs might be 'worse'). Your words really resonate with me and I understand a bit more. Thanks.

Basic Christian Theology with Jim Crain, baby! Then there was Homiletics with Crain as well. Remember meek old Jon's sermon and the baby-playing-ping-pong-with-your-gallbladder illustration? And him pounding the podium while spitting and screaming at the top of his lungs, "GOD LOVES YOU!"? Boy those were some memories.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:29:41 -0000

Tracy~ You quoted Mike Yaconelli in the above link, "It is the nature of human beings, the nature of modern life, to silence those who interrupt our routine activities and understandings." I am very thankful (thought not always while it was happening) for those people in my life who interrupted my routine activities and understandings. It has driven me to my knees, the bible and ultimately to a place of dependence in God's arms of love. For that, I am glad they spoke and did not remain silent.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:55:10 -0000

Hi Bonnie,

1. Yes, I believe so.
2. I believe there are people who will believe while on earth that they are loved by God and forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice. It is their joy to share that message (in both deed and word) of God's (Father, Son, Spirit) love and forgiveness.
3. I believe that after our death we will see God for who he is, his love for us, and our forgiveness through Jesus. I believe we can still reject God at that point and that he will honor our desires. So there is a chance that all might go to "heaven".

I believe God has forgiven us before we believe/receive it.
I believe God is not limited in extending mercy to us after death.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:49:13 -0000

I really appreciate your inquiry into what I believe, but as I was thinking about your question, I realized there were multiple ideas under point three. Which idea was your question addressing? That we'll all see God? See Him for who he is? That he loves everyone? That he's forgiven everyone though Jesus? That we can reject/accept him even after death? That he'll honor our desires? That there is a chance that all might go to heaven?

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:44:58 -0000

I get it from God's character as I understand it through scripture, Jesus and personal experience with the HS. I believe that God is not hindered in any way by humanity. He is God. If he wants to extend mercy and love after we die, then he can. His hands are not tied simply because our heart stopped beating. I also cannot see him looking at 2/3 of his creation, while they are on their knees in worship and praising Jesus, and going, "Too bad, off you go." I see him much like the father of the prodigal son who ran to his son at the mere sight of him, not to beat him, but to welcome him home. Could the son have spit in his face again? Sure, but that doesn't change the father's heart to love his kids.

So I feel the "current popular assumption" is that there is no "2nd" chance after death. Once your heart stops beating and you stand before God on your knees in praise, you are too late. For me, the burden of proof lies on that assumption. That is not how I see God or his character. But again, that is just how I see it. I will side on a God of 2nd chances.

You may or may not agree. Cool.

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:42:38 -0000

~To All~ Thanks for swinging by and commenting. About Jesus: Indeed, he and the other two persons of God are truth. About relative truth: Truth is not relative, but ultimately it is God's domain only. About visual learning: Bring it...we've been neglected in school for far too long. About Born Again: that is one Christian understanding of God's truth. About "truth" arrogance: The unfortunate fruit of scientific thinking and the Enlightenment. About free time: anyone hiring in the Sacramento area? or, does anyone need graphic design work done? About deer: Pay for the plane ticket and I'm there.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:31:23 -0000

You're welcome.

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:33:48 -0000

Tracy. You're a trouble maker! ;-)

Re: One Line #12

Jeromy — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:55:10 -0000

LOL. Thanks for setting the record straight!

Re: He is Risen . . .

Jeromy — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:32:47 -0000

~Gabe~

God's grace and love is indeed scandalous. Paul was pretty convinced of God's inseparable love, "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor . . . can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus." Yes and Amen indeed!!

Re: Love as an End, Not a Means

Jeromy — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:39:45 -0000

That's good news indeed!

Re: Graphic Design

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:41:26 -0000

Thanks Matt. A year and still no satisfactory logo?

Re: Photography

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:14:58 -0000

Thanks Tracy and Deliushca. There is a story surrounding the sheep image. From day one while in Spain we wanted to create an photo of a shepherd and his sheep. 10 days passed and we had not seen what we were looking for. On our last day in Spain we were driving along a country road, when all of a sudden this man rounds the corner and behind him was the biggest flock of sheep I have ever seen! We screeched to a halt on a side road, flung open the doors and I captured about a dozen photos before the man realized what was going on (I felt like poparatizi). We approached him, struck up a small conversation, pet his dogs and parted ways. He was a very gentle, gracious and kind man. He sheep weren't too bad either.

Re: Daddy’s Gifts and Promise of Provision

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:30:57 -0000

Great. Now my dirty little secret is out.

PS: Thanks.

Re: Broken

Jeromy — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:12:07 -0000

I am very grateful for the conversation that spawned its message. He's very broken and humble. His friendship is teaching me a lot.

Re: Broken

Jeromy — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:39:36 -0000

Thanks Nayni! :-)

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:06:21 -0000

Thank you for your heart, your kind words, and your wisdom. I trust you'll see the Lord and won't be left behind. When I follow, be sure to look for me—I'll do the same.

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:15:16 -0000

Mizpah—The more I let your last words sink into my heart, the more I received them. I wish I could put words to the feeling I got as I thought, "That's it. That's it." You and I believe a bit differently (maybe quite differently) and we both know it. But your words shot through our belief differences to the heart of what matters: Jesus. And I sensed a peace and companionship in your words. Thank you again for taking the time and sharing that blessing.

Re: A Safe Place to Experiment —Revolutionaries Synchroblog

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:58:46 -0000

Thanks Kathy.

Glenn, freedom and support seems to be a common thread within this synchroblog...almost like a bell chiming. Thanks for what you're doing.

Re: A Safe Place to Experiment —Revolutionaries Synchroblog

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:44:17 -0000

My wife and I read your statement twice about leaving a sickly newborn child for seminary. Really? Our third is due in July and the thought of leaving her is, well, unthinkable. How was the ministry environment under your pastor?

Re: A Safe Place to Experiment —Revolutionaries Synchroblog

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:23:21 -0000

Deep, calm breathes . . . sounds peaceful. Thank you as well for helping create a such a space. I think I am the one blessed.

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:04:56 -0000

LOL. We did that the other day. Ashlyn threw her hands in the air going down a hill. It's a little creepy to think you might have a hidden camera installed somewhere in my Jeep. ;-)

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:52:58 -0000

If Jonathan can snoop in your diary, and you can peep into my jeep, where does that leave me?

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:41:07 -0000

Holy man...ha! People to spy on? There are, but I'll keep their names to myself. No self-incrimination here. LOL

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:16:36 -0000

Thanks Matty for sharing that passage. I never thought of it before in light of it. Reminds me of Jesus in Mark 9:

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward."

I noticed the first time they sang Shout to the Lord, the replaced "Jesus" with "Shepherd", but the following night when they sang it again they sang it as it was originally written with "Jesus". Interesting. I wonder why?

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:44:27 -0000

Hey Tammy! Yea, who would have thought? Hearing the words (among others) "Shout to the Lord all the earth, let us sing . . . I sing for joy at the work of Your hands" from that stage as the poor were being 'fed' and 'cared for' got me teary. I would have loved to be a fly in the producer's room when they were making the decision to, a) sing it, and, b) reinsert Jesus' name in the re-sing. I believe God was indeed glorified, both in song and deed. What did you think when you first heard it?

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:55:18 -0000

~Hey Matt~ You're such a cynic! LOL.

Yea, when I heard Ryan announce, "...singing the song, "Shout to the Lord", I thought surely not THE Shout to the Lord, and then I heard the chords and the timing and I was like..."No Way!?" Then walla, there it was.

Jesus . . . arms crossed . . . poopooing. I echo your picturing hardship.

So you think the show is rigged. Why's that? (I really do want to get you started) hehehe

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:25:12 -0000

Well, that settles that. I was going to tryout next season but you just shattered my dreams of platinum glory. Now what to do?

Perhaps I'll try my luck on, "Don't Forget the Lyrics"

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:35:51 -0000

Thanks Chad. Yea, God can use even TBN to draw people to himself, in as much as he can use you and me. But it sounds like your wife knows you and has wisdom in maintaining peace in the home ;-) .

Re: About

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:40:28 -0000

Well, I am sure some think it is a Mending Shift without the "F". But a lot seem to resonate with it as well. Too funny.

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:09:41 -0000

No, but I do have the ability to edit your comments. See above: ;-)

Remember how I said it was all about power? Uh-huh...that's right Tracy (or should I call you Elle?). LOL

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:46:20 -0000

What are you talking about? I didn't do a thing.

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:26:58 -0000

Hi Amy,

"Let’s invite people to jump into this fantastic adventure with us..." Well said. I almost felt as if American Idol was inviting us as Christians to jump into this fantastic adventure with them! I too was praising—even before the song. What a blessing! Thanks for sharing your words.

Re: American Idol Gives Back

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:43:56 -0000

Sure. Thanks. I'll swing by soon.

Re: What Is Missional Living to Me?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:46:52 -0000

And that's the catch, isn't it?

Re: The Living Jesus—Beautiful and Untidy

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:43:03 -0000

The nerve.

Re: What Is Missional Living to Me?

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:58:57 -0000

When I was learning photography they always emphasized the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid). However, in some cases, I fear I am too stupid to make it complex. Thanks Bryan...a good reminder that less is often times, more.

Re: A Great Time to be Alive!

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:02:14 -0000

Nice.

Wow, another INFP? That now makes two of us. I'm glad I'm not alone in my INFPness. ;-)

Re: Not “Going to” Church Anymore, But Gathering Instead

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:06:08 -0000

To all: It is amazing the difference a few words make to remind us that its about people, not a place.

Re: Not “Going to” Church Anymore, But Gathering Instead

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:55:36 -0000

~Tracy~

Would you have been open to receiving it 10 years ago? I'm not sure I would have been.

Re: Not “Going to” Church Anymore, But Gathering Instead

Jeromy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:03:32 -0000

"Go/ing to church"...I wonder when that verbiage was first introduced?

Re: Forgiveness

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:05:14 -0000

How do you mean? I'm not too familiar with the Buddhist idea of compassion.

Re: Don’t Drink and Blog

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:36:19 -0000

Well, let's hope New Castle is a little more forgiving than wine. If not, good thing we have insurance.

Re: Don’t Drink and Blog

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:46:09 -0000

Sounds like a deadly combination indeed. I wish I could blame mine on the small hands in our house...

Re: The Jesus Font

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:15:14 -0000

LOL. Was it a slimy one? Gross, dude...get a handle on your saliva!

By the way, you're welcome.

Re: I Am Now Employed

Jeromy — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:42:46 -0000

Thanks Tracy. I am working for a company called VSP (in the EyeFinity division) coming alongside private practice optometrists establish a web presence and build their websites.

Re: I Am Now Employed

Jeromy — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:57:21 -0000

LOL. That makes no sense but that is what makes it funny, I think. Going good. Just getting trained and shadowing right now...you know how the first few days/weeks are.

Re: Don’t Drink and Blog

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:29:34 -0000

So will I. Light beer is like drinking alcoholic water. BTW, you look an awfully like Jesus in your picture.

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:45:03 -0000

~Chad~ I remember him saying that as he was holding a pen. Yep. But we don't always do too well with "Yep", do we? Ugh.

~Paul~ Great point: What is "our" music? I think that is a question that is neglected (and definitely not lived into) on a church-wide corporate level much too often. The question most churches ask is, "What is the popular music, or the successful music? Let's buy the sheet music and imitate that." It takes great courage for a body of Christ-followers to ask What is our music?, and even more courage to faithfully sing it—come what may. Here is to those communities as well! Cheers and keep singing your song!

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Jeromy — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:49:53 -0000

To just listen and see what starts my feet tapping...not fearing any music. That really resonated with me. To listen and not fear. Crazy idea. :-p Between me and you, the music you're playing is needed. Keep your feet tapping and share with us what moves you. If not you, then who? (maybe rocks)

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:30:24 -0000

As I read your last line I pictured a mom (or dad) listening to their young child singing (borderline shouting) off-key and sounding God-awful to the ears, but beautiful to the parent's heart. You know? You're a dad—of course you know.

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:02:09 -0000

You bring up an important element. Preparing a space to listen is important to hearing our music. Terrific insight.

Re: I Am Now Employed

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:30:04 -0000

Absolutely!

Re: I Am Now Employed

Jeromy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:02:56 -0000

Thanks!

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:44:32 -0000

I'm here to serve, Tracy. What else would you like? Perhaps an auto-comment feature?

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:58:18 -0000

I have found it is fairly difficult to have a meaningful conversation with them because it is "their way or the highway" (often leading to a very hot place). I am finding more and more the peace in knowing that I cannot convince or convert anyone. All I can do is try to love, listen and do all I can to help bring reality to Jesus' prayer. If they do not want to be united, there is nothing I can do to make them be. Bummer, I know. I look at it this way. Obviously, agreement on doctrine in order to bring unity is NEVER going to happen (what, we have like 39,000 denominations and Christian sects?). So how do we stand united? I think we just make a choice and realize that we all are "right" and "wrong" to a certain degree, but we can still decide to walk with each other in love. Easier said than done, I know.

What do you think? How do we help bridge the chasm? Being a Methodist, I am sure you have had to walk this path at times, especially now with the homosexuality issues playing heavy. What have you seen/learned?

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:52:04 -0000

Sure thing...it is already in the beta stage of development. And I also have a bridge for sale if interested.

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:30:56 -0000

Thanks Kathy...glad it got your foot tapping. :-P

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:04:44 -0000

"If you are interested to hear how planting a community garden might tear down racial barriers in the church..." Actually, I would be. Can you email it to me?

So instead of copying and pasting your entire response and saying, "Well said...I couldn't agree more!", let me just say it. I resonated deeply with what you said, especially "rally around our agreement that Jesus’ body was broken and his blood was spilled for the healing of the world? If we can agree on that, shouldn’t everything else take a back seat? I’m becoming increasingly convinced that it should. In fact, I would even argue that it is in our diagreements over the other issues that we are called to love our neighbor and learn how to serve theother and sacrifice our own egos for the sake of unity."

So let me ask you, how do your REALLY feel? :-p

Re: Mistaken Identity

Jeromy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:36:23 -0000

What you describe sounds beautiful. I never get tired of hearing how people are striving towards unity. I love the idea of an ecumenical worship gathering. How did the unity in the monthly meetings spill over into the day-to-day life of the churches/pastor? Do you have such a group in NC?

Re: Mistaken Identity

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:20:01 -0000

Chad, you crack me up. I figured I'd give you something to shoot for. ;-)

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Sat, 03 May 2008 14:03:00 -0000

Here was my response:

Yea, it seems pretty clear what Jesus’ words mean when he says to love your enemy. If they take your coat, give them the rest of your clothes (your nakedness will shed light on their vileness). If they backhand you, turn your other cheek so they have to hit you like an equal. If they force you to walk one mile, do it (that is what THEY demand), then walk another for them on your own accord (that is what YOU offer). I believe that Ghandi, MLK Jr. and others were great examples of what it means to love an enemy, while at the same time showing their enemies and the world the vileness and injustice of their enemy’s actions.

As far as arguing-to-try-to-convince goes, outside of relationship, it is futile when people are embedded in their theology, fear and pain. Say your peace (if you want), then move on. If someone is willing to build a relationship, listen as you listen, learn as you learn, humble themselves as you humble yourself, then perhaps dialogue and mutual change can occur.

Like you said, people love to hate and it is a whole lot easier to do so. As far as Bin Laden goes, if we can’t love him, who can we love? Would I shoot him? Nope…not my place. I’ll leave “vengeance” to God. I fear we might be surprised when God shows love and forgiveness to even the “Bin Ladens” in our world. Funny thing is this: WE are THEIR “Bin Ladens” (or enemies).

Re: Jesus, Who Is My Enemy?

Jeromy — Sat, 03 May 2008 17:36:12 -0000

Chad...I really believe that God has been trying to get us to ask these questions since creation. Then to make it really obvious, he asked us these questions when he put on flesh in Jesus. The questions have always been there but only a few people have acknowledged their answers—fewer still have lived them. I know I have a long way to go in living the grace and freedom these questions bring. But I sense that the more we wrestle with them together as people in community, the more we can live into them. I can't do it alone. But perhaps together, we can.

By the way, it is your fault I began asking these questions so the blame belongs to you. Thanks a lot! :-P

Re: My Tongue Hurts

Jeromy — Sun, 04 May 2008 11:09:08 -0000

Jonathan—consider it a meal suggestion for our next Tribe dinner.

Tracy—as a non-vegetarian myself, I wanted to show you what you were missing out on, but perhaps I just helped reinforce your non-meat convictions. Oh well...can't cay I tried. Yea, I'll skip on the ear sandwich.

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 10:02:28 -0000

~Tracy~

Hey, have you ever had a tongue sandwich? Don't knock it until you try it.

Are you calling my daughter gross? Or my dog? Or raspberry sherbet? Or the combination of the three? Ashlyn didn't think it was too gross.

You'll never know when my secret speedo picture will come out of the closet. You'll just have to keep your eyes pealed, won't you?

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 10:05:12 -0000

~Chad~ Cheddar says thanks for the compliment. You know, come to think of it, I was let go from the church shortly after an ice cream social potluck. Coincidence? Hmmm...

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 10:45:04 -0000

I guess "gross" is all relative and in the eye of the beholder. Ashlyn would disagree with your conclusion.

I know you laughed. Admit it.

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:42:54 -0000

Thanks Glen. Glad to participate.

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:11:24 -0000

Going public has been my pleasure. Thank you for swinging by...

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 18:35:17 -0000

Thanks Erin. It truly does!

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 19:44:50 -0000

Thank you for your kind words, Kathy. It sounds like we could learn a lot from what you've been through and are currently building. May his kingdom come, indeed!

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:41:40 -0000

~Hi Mike~ Thanks...I like to think my family is beautiful, too—but who doesn't! Do you live in California? Pollock Pines is very serene. I would love to meet you when you're in the area.

~HW~ Thank you...We are excited to LIVE what happens next!!

Re: Our Story—Chapter 10

Jeromy — Tue, 06 May 2008 10:08:37 -0000

Will do. If you haven't been to Folsom in a while, a lot has changed—you may not even recognize the place. Blessings...

Re: The Gods Aren’t Angry #1—Rob Bell

Jeromy — Tue, 06 May 2008 10:14:40 -0000

For me, the message of TGAA was even more important and impactful than EIS. You'll have to let me know what you think after watching it.

Re: The Gods Aren’t Angry #1—Rob Bell

Jeromy — Tue, 06 May 2008 13:42:57 -0000

My better half hasn't seen it.

Re: Jesus, Who Is My Enemy?

Jeromy — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:50:31 -0000

Seth, you bring up a good point. I fear we often focus on what seperates us from our enemies, and not what we have in common. Often we end up vilifying them rather than seeing them as a co-human.

Loved by God, he is. Indeed, he is.

Re: Jesus, Who Is My Enemy?

Jeromy — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:51:07 -0000

So Matty, I take it you would not nun-chuck him and rip out his heart?

Re: The Wonder of New Friendship

Jeromy — Fri, 09 May 2008 16:46:21 -0000

Some how I knew you'd appreciate this post. Anything I can do to help, Tracy. Like I said, I am here to serve. Yea, they do look good. She gave me a few copies (“Dated Jekyll, Married Hyde”, “This Old Dump” and “Daring Chloe”) and I look forward to reading them—as does my wife, Jen. If you do order some of her books, Laura would be more than happy to personalize them for you with her signature and a little note. Let me know if you order some, OK?

Re: One Line—The Stink & Beauty

Jeromy — Fri, 09 May 2008 16:53:29 -0000

me too, brother . . . me too. I want to make a t-shirt of it.

Re: The Wonder of New Friendship

Jeromy — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:35:33 -0000

Please do. Thanks for swinging by.

Re: an INFP personality

Jeromy — Mon, 12 May 2008 22:03:11 -0000

You mean they haven't been? Yes, very freaky—but helpful.

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:52:48 -0000

I'm glad my nightmare made you laugh! Was the coffee good?

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:40:36 -0000

Define "normal"... ;-)

Re: The Unifying Factor

Jeromy — Wed, 14 May 2008 19:59:51 -0000

Great question. Love looks like Jesus and what he called/calls us to live.

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 09:52:53 -0000

LOL. Amen to that, sister. Keep those fixin's far, far away!

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 09:59:59 -0000

I love the connection you made. When we exclude others, we are squeezing out Jesus. Hmmm. Perhaps what we do to others, we do to him. (sounds awfully familiar to the words of a certain Nazarene).

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 10:06:44 -0000

A LOT of energy, indeed.

Could you imagine if the church building was the most simple and worst looking building in town, and the poor areas were breathtakingly beautiful because we died to ourself—corporately, as a church—and used the bulk of our resources to serve others? I agree with you...the world (ours and theirs) would change!

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:29:03 -0000

Glad I woke you up.
Sorry I ruined your mental vision. Imagine the visual I have!!

Re: Communion Sunday

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:34:10 -0000

Mike: And Jesus left the ninety-nine looking to restore the one. I do not have ONE shadow of doubt that Jesus would open his table to all. But I may be wrong...

Re: Communion Sunday

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:37:38 -0000

Writetools: In my opinion, nope. It could be a very redeeming and restoring thing.

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:40:24 -0000

Writetool: Hahahahaha. Oh man, the visual of a gold chain (I am assuming surrounded by a forest of chest hair) gives me the ebee-jebees.

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Jeromy — Fri, 16 May 2008 12:03:36 -0000

I just nearly vomitted. Aghhhhh...find a happy place, find a happy place...

Re: Fasting from the Lord’s Supper…

Jeromy — Fri, 16 May 2008 17:56:56 -0000

You're welcome, thanks for sharing them. Your heart is evident as well. Someone who is not a follower of Jesus may not want to participate, which is their decision to make...we shouldn't force it on them. But nor do I believe that we should exclude them. I don't think it is our place to do so.

Why didn't Jesus have other people there? Don't know. Perhaps they were all with their families celebrating the Passover meal. Perhaps more than just the 12 were there (it only says "disciples"). But some who betrayed him and denied him were there and he served them. Again, what I see of Jesus and his ministry and heart, I really don't think he would turn people away from sharing his meal. I could be wrong.

Re: Communion Sunday

Jeromy — Sat, 17 May 2008 22:06:40 -0000

Yes it is. But it was a different pastor who led communion, and the message was geared towards God's embrace of all.

Yes you did. It was a very encouraging story. Again, I didn't know much about the Methodist church short of a friend of mine who used to attend one.

Continue on...

Re: Basement Blog: Just Another Gold-Tooth-Cleaner-Guy

Jeromy — Sun, 18 May 2008 01:32:59 -0000

I would recommend the book highly, though this particular post are my thoughts. I believe that God can indeed use anything, even the door-to-door approach and mass evangelism. I think one of the reasons we do mass evangelism or "stranger" evangelism is because it's easier to convert them. But then what? If a relationship is built, I believe that true discipleship is much more likely to happen. Our goal is not simply a "decision", but life-long followers and lovers of Jesus.

Though there were indeed lives changed by being in proximity of Jesus with no apparent relationship, that was not his main strategy (for lack of a better word). Jesus' main approach was to focus on building a relationship with twelve intimate friends, disciple them and then release them into creating other disciples.

Re: Matthew 18 = Excommunicate or Embrace Again?

Jeromy — Sun, 18 May 2008 01:44:08 -0000

Frank (or should I call you Trucker Frank?—a joke as well), thank you for letting Tony publish your story about Matthew 18. I seriously put the book down after reading it to pick my jaw up off the floor. As I shared this story here, a friend of mine read it and she began to weep as Jesus' healing flooded over her. His love for her in that moment was very real and she basked in it. Sadly (and I'm making a judgment here), this passage has probably been used to hurt and destroy more people over the past 2,000 years than we would care to know. Thank you again for the willingness to put your words out there. They've been a blessing to me, as I am sure others as well.

Jeeper Jeromy

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:48:33 -0000

No worries Kay.

Re: Why I Am Missional—Three Reasons

Jeromy — Mon, 19 May 2008 13:23:57 -0000

lol. Think of how tired I feel...I wrote the monster!

Re: When the Supplement Becomes the Meal

Jeromy — Tue, 20 May 2008 18:21:45 -0000

~Kathy~ Hearing you talk about how your community integrates your children gives me great hope and excitement. Can you share more about the initial transition from your old church’s children’s ministry to Refuge’s integrated approach? What were some of the logistics? How did you feel as a parent during that initial period?

Re: When the Supplement Becomes the Meal

Jeromy — Wed, 21 May 2008 09:55:28 -0000

~Kathy~ I really appreciate you sharing your story. It sounds like quite an adventure. I am blessed by the beauty of the children even serving communion. It is almost like they are learning to be disciples of Jesus by living it among and with the community rather than simply through an "education" process. Thank you so much for sharing and fleshing it out more!

~Chad~ As a pastor, you really see and understand this, don't you? I know for me it was the topic of many a staff-meeting discussion. Perhaps the "vacuum" of not having the supplement available will allow parents to really wrestle with what it means to disciple their kids in the ways and person of Jesus.

Re: Painting Egypt—The Reason Behind All This Time and Sand

Jeromy — Wed, 21 May 2008 10:01:40 -0000

I too love that part. "leaving out what it lacked."

Probably an aside, your comment about "in my mind" reminds me of Paul's words when he said that we were alienated from God and enemies in OUR MINDS.

Re: Basement Blog: Just Another Gold-Tooth-Cleaner-Guy

Jeromy — Wed, 21 May 2008 10:13:10 -0000

Thanks Mike.

Re: God and Sunday: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Wed, 21 May 2008 10:51:21 -0000

Yes, I feel it is an all-too-common mis-perception. One that the Jews never really had.

Thanks Tracy. There is so much grace when it comes to parenting. I am thankful that he feels comfortable to have conversations and speak openly about how he feels. As you and I both know, there is great freedom and healing when we get honest and speak our voice.

Re: When the Supplement Becomes the Meal

Jeromy — Thu, 22 May 2008 00:09:43 -0000

"...system has stolen the initiative from parents to become the primaries." And sadly, that 'stealing' is not met with much resistance from parents to release their role. I know for us, it's nice to "think" that our kid's consistent spiritual input can come without much input from us. Jen and my conversation was very telling...and freeing...and healing...and hope-filled.

How are you finding that process of giving parents a hand-up? How is it being received?

Re: When the Supplement Becomes the Meal

Jeromy — Thu, 22 May 2008 10:19:46 -0000

Thanks for those suggestions, Nicole. I feel like we all have so much to learn from one another regarding parenting. I love having a community of close friends with whom we can wrestle with what it means to disciple our kids in the way and person of Jesus.

Re: God and Love: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Fri, 23 May 2008 18:08:38 -0000

~Writetools~ They do have a way of stripping things down to the core and posing the tough-simple questions. Where do you teach the Bible?

Re: God and Love: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Fri, 23 May 2008 18:10:54 -0000

~Baddog~ (love the name by the way)

Love sometimes has a way of speaking to the heart what the mind cannot always hear, much less comprehend.

Re: God and Laughter: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Fri, 23 May 2008 18:16:11 -0000

I've seen some of those pictures and they bring joy to my heart everytime I see them. Head thrown back in laughter--great word picture. I wish that the Bible said (much like when it said "Jesus wept") Jesus laughed.

Re: God and Love: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Sun, 25 May 2008 16:19:44 -0000

hahaha...I forgot about that line...how fitting!

Your son's been reading your books again, I see.

Re: OK, If I Must . . .

Jeromy — Mon, 26 May 2008 11:48:21 -0000

Me too. ;-)

Re: It Might Be A While…

Jeromy — Wed, 28 May 2008 19:15:09 -0000

HW and Tracy. Aweful and sad indeed. Fortunately our property insurance will cover it...and maybe, just maybe, I'll score a brand new Macbook! But It looks like it will be a few weeks.

Re: It Might Be A While…

Jeromy — Thu, 29 May 2008 19:44:06 -0000

So we just finalized things with our insurance and the repair cost came to $865. They thought about it and decided to just replace the whole computer at a cost of $1,800ish. No complaints here! New Macbook (4gb RAM, 250gb HD...) here you come!

Chad / HW -- So true. Carbon Copy for me is something I do with an email. The funny thing with that carbon paper is that by the time you get to the fifth layer, it doesn't even show up.

Re: It Might Be A While…

Jeromy — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:33:13 -0000

No worries...when my computer arrives tomorrow I will re-take my blog by force! Glad you two are having a good conversation...feel free!

Re: It Might Be A While…

Jeromy — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:41:45 -0000

OK, you two...game on!! Name your price...

Re: God and Love: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:54:00 -0000

Brit — So true. How often we tend to loose sight of his love once we become adults, thinking that we have to behave or think "rightly" to earn, or perhaps worst, DESERVE it. Thanks for swinging by and sharing your thoughts!

Re: I Demand My Blog Back!

Jeromy — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:10:51 -0000

Thanks. Napa indeed has some good wine, but their food and scenery is something to write home about as well. We had a great time. Now we just have to push through (no pun) this last month of pregnancy. Jen does indeed deserve a medal.

About that million dollars, would you settle for a used Macbook that overdosed on Newcastle? The battery is still good...

Re: I Demand My Blog Back!

Jeromy — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:16:08 -0000

Chad — It does indeed. I took the battery out, brought it to my nose and sniffed deeply. Nothing like electrically charged NC.

HW — Lots of shrubbery! Well, I'll take you at your word ... this time! Thanks for defending the fort! (I would say "castle" but my new computer gets a bit edgey when I do—and for good reason).

Mike — Thanks Mike. Moose drool is best served ice cold.

Re: The Bible…Fiction?

Jeromy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:59:54 -0000

William, thanks for sharing your opinion.

Re: I Demand My Blog Back!

Jeromy — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 01:36:24 -0000

I'm taking my computer and going home.

Meanie.

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:25:16 -0000

Your bet is correct...we are!

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:03:34 -0000

BadDog -- Wow, number 5! Bless you man, and double blessings to Beth! 4am isn't just nonsense, it's unholy.

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:57:56 -0000

I'm sure you would be, as would I, as would others by us. Which is why Jesus said to let them be because our weed-declarations are very subjective to what we believe. (We've really made a mess of things, haven't we?)

That's what I love about Jesus ... he seems so different and beautiful! Perhaps it is not "Christianity" per-se that your rubber band is attached to, maybe it's Jesus. My judgment (I have those) is that it is Jesus who keeps "SPROINGING" you back to himself. His love is kinda stubborn that way. Annoying at times, isn't it? Beautiful at times, isn't it?

Jeromy, a recovering pharisee. ;-)

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:57:56 -0000

Re: This Comment Stopped Me In My Tracks…

Jeromy — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:58:44 -0000

Indeed.

Re: This Comment Stopped Me In My Tracks…

Jeromy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:39:51 -0000

Glenn...Why do you think that "love" is hated sometimes? I agree, though it seems strange to me, but why do you think that is?

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:48:23 -0000

It's late, so I'll try to read it tomorrow and comment on your blog. See you there...

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:48:23 -0000

It's late, so I'll try to read it tomorrow and comment on your blog. See you there...

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:44:19 -0000

Thanks, you too! How many kids do you have? Are they young or grown?

Re: God and Love: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Jeromy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:47:28 -0000

It is great news, far better than I had ever thought before! I would offer that if churches LIVED this (words are good, but actions are more) that it would change the world!

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:14:33 -0000

Wow...9 months, congratulations. Life changing, aren't those little guys? LOL about the dire state of neewspaper comments -- so true!). More than one is really cool. It is amazing how you can love each one so fully as if they were the only one. I used to think I could NO WAY share the love I had for my first born with others, but I can. Even this, to me, is a small reflection of how God is able to do it with all the kids he has created. In a month I get to try my love with three kids!

So you live in Vacaville (aka Cow Town)? Right down the road from us. What are you doing Wednesday night? Care to join us for the Church Basement Roadshow? Begins at 7:00pm. If not, totally cool, just thought I'd invite you and get a chance to meet you in person.

Re: This Comment Stopped Me In My Tracks…

Jeromy — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:25:24 -0000

You're welcome, but thank you for your words...just thought I'd share the blessing.

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:34 -0000

A good friend of mine and mentor went to Jesuit School of Theology just last year. Being a Presbyterian minister, it really helped him see things differently, especially justice issues. The Roadshow is also rolling into Oakland and SF over the weekend. Do check back...

I like your analogy. Very good to know, indeed.

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:31:38 -0000

Very cool you are (Yoda style)

Re: The Fruit of Judgement

Jeromy — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:39:11 -0000

typically and sadly, it is.

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:52:56 -0000

Very, very insightful. I hadn't thought of it like that before. Of course now you have me second guessing the amount of water I am giving our plants...

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:52:56 -0000

Very, very insightful. I hadn't thought of it like that before. Of course now you have me second guessing the amount of water I am giving our plants...

Re: Church Basement Roadshow Reflections

Jeromy — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:38:24 -0000

Here is one reflection from the Sacramento Emergent Cohort site posted by Pomoprophet:

"Sometimes I feel alone in my faith. Which is antithetical to the message of Jesus. The past few years my faith has been shifting dramatically. Not that it has anything to do with Jesus... He is still everything. But everything outside of Jesus is changing. I no longer identify as an Evangelical Christian. Atleast in my thinking. And yet that is the only way I know how to be a Christian.

So I often feel stuck. And without a home and community that I used to have when I was an Evangelical living in LA. Sometimes I even wonder if those who question the path I am on, are right. If maybe I am wandering. It's lonely at times.

Tonight I attended the Church Basement Roadshow. I can't explain what it was. A mock early 20th century old fashioned revival with a multimedia component and a book tour. As the website will tell you it's put on by three emergent authors. In between the mock revival sessions each author read from part of his book. It was... refreshing. Their stories of what faith means to them.

They reminded me that the goal of follwing Jesus is not to fit some mold of what other Christians think we should look like. Conversely I can't expect my students in Bible class to be a certain way. Everyones path can be different. Tony Jones shared about his college experience where Christianity became less about Jesus and more about the correct theological ascent. Man isn't that true for so many Christians that I know! If you don't believe the right things, you aren't in the club...

It's all hogwosh.

This "new" kind of Christianity is different than most of us are used to. Alot of people don't understand. And maybe its not for them. I think it is but they just don't know. But its definitely for people like me... me and the others who were in that room tonight. And it brings hope."

Re: Letting Go

Jeromy — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:52:16 -0000

thanks yhen, your's too.

Re: Pregnancy and God With Us

Jeromy — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:57:10 -0000

Glad it spoke to you, Hope...

Re: Purpose of A Mending Shift

Jeromy — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:57:28 -0000

Andrea ~ I am glad I could help put words to what you've been feeling. It is encouraging when others are thinking and hearing similar thoughts.

Re: The Wall Between “Them” and “Us”

Jeromy — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:23:06 -0000

I had a simular shift not too long ago and the I realized I wasn't the only one, and further, that it wasn't a "new" postmodern theology, but rather an ancient and, at different times throughout Christian history, an accepted one. When did you read that book and the shift happen?

In march I posted more on where I stand: Here I Stand, On God's Love for All

Re: The Wall Between “Them” and “Us”

Jeromy — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:49:17 -0000

Its funny you mention the Bible. That too was the stimulas (Romans 5 in particular) that caused me to look at the Bible through "this" lens. And I saw it everywhere!! I too thought it was too good to be true, fought it and then just came to begin to accept it. I now have a deeper appreciation of God, his glory, his love, his power, his grace and his heart for all his kids!

Is your wife speaking about religion to you now?

Re: The Wall Between “Them” and “Us”

Jeromy — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:23:47 -0000

I would offer the subtle difference is that some have heard and are believing they are loved, and some have not. We are all, I believe, in different stages of our understanding of God's love for us and that none of us will ever grasp the vastness of God's love. Some deny it. Some understand it but can't put words to it. Some are just beginnning to hear. Some deny it and reject it. I really believe that once a person REALLY believes in the depths of their heart that God loves them regardless of anything they do, that they cannot but help be thrust into and join what God is doing. To me it is more of a natural repsonse to his love than a mental commitment, though I understand what you are saying.

But I fear that we have created false "us" and "them" categories, almost thinking that we are better-humans and they are lesser-humans.

Re: The Homeless Garden

Jeromy — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:07:38 -0000

HW ~ Isn't it, though? I smiled when I heard it.

Daniel ~ Are you working with the city or a church, or both? I really wonder how much of this is taking place as we speak.

WriteTools ~ The funny thing is that all they were looking for was a plot of land to grow their garden. They weren't wanting the church to tend it or even provide the seed (though that would be helpful). Imagine if every church tithed a portion of their land and $$ for something like this? I think you're right in that it would have a huge impact on all kinds of things.

Re: About

Jeromy — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:38:33 -0000

Hi Barb,

Sure, feel free to use it. Thanks for your integrity. What is your dissertation about? Do you mind sending me a copy when it is done? I would love to read it. I'll email you with my email address.

Jeromy

Re: New Blog Banner! Take a Look…

Jeromy — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:48 -0000

Muchobellyacher ~ You're the third one on the right.

Re: The Homeless Garden

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:31:34 -0000

Thanks Jeff and David. We all need hope and a masquerading Jesus in our lives.

Re: God is at Work

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:59:51 -0000

Why do you think that is?

I think it is because it's safe. But when has "safe" ever accomplished anything for God's Kingdom? Not too often.

Re: God is at Work

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:24:41 -0000

I hear you and I felt your intent. Why do you think we get "stuck within the walls"?

Re: God is at Work

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:07:30 -0000

Stay tuned, my friend... Good things come to those who wait!

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:03:07 -0000

Tracy, I haven't seen you my blog for quite a while, so how did I know you'd be the first to reqeust this story? I am laughing very hard!! You just couldn't resist. By the way, I emailed you the full story.

Any one else want a good laugh?

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:18:56 -0000

monolisabelcher - I'm not so convinced you do! Regardless, my kid ain't ever taking a dip in there again!

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:36:31 -0000

I know how that goes. These posts/comments you've been wrestling with, have they been on your blog or where you've read something while surfing the blogosphere? Care to elaborate?

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:46:58 -0000

When they come, I'm convinced your heart will have the ears to hear them and the courage to share them. I'll be the first in line to hear. You have a wisdom and grace about you. Keep shedding the tears...they come from and are near to God's heart! Glad to know you as a friend.

On a more serious note ;-) , you'll have to let me know Rich's reaction to the tadpole story.

Re: God is at Work

Jeromy — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:07:47 -0000

It sounds like a lot has happened to you inside the walls. It is hard for us not to project our experiences onto everyone and I like how you said that perhaps a lot of people haven't experienced what you have. That might be true...I can't say.

But I think you're on to something. I do think that fear, both personal and corporate, keep us bound, and out of that fear we tend to try to control and/or judge. And if we recognize that God is hardily at work in the world all around us then it becomes less about control and judgment, and more about participation, joy and faith...wherever we find him! But if we keep God in the walls of the church—or even our theology—then we "control" him, and judgment (to varying degrees) of those outside of our walls naturally follows, in most cases.

Like a wise person once said a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." I think there is a TON of truth is that!

Re: New Blog Banner! Take a Look…

Jeromy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:27:30 -0000

Thanks Mooney...I sent an email.

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:54:40 -0000

Mr McGraw, Your email is off. Scout is coming along just fine from all indications. She is ready to be spawned within a few weeks. There will definitely be pictures. I can get one of the Placenta if you'd like as well!

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:43:31 -0000

Hahaha...is it technically your placenta or Scout's? Common babe, where's the love?

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:23:21 -0000

OK Jen, I'll have Chad post it on his blog. He's already in trouble with his wife for the eyes-shut photos he posts of her, might as well add my wife to his list. How 'bout it Chad?

Re: Tadpoles?

Jeromy — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:19:00 -0000

Yea, Chad is a good guy and I have enjoyed getting to know him a bit. Your email is on the way...

Re: Wrestling with God’s Love

Jeromy — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:59:07 -0000

Monocussbelltower and Linda ~ Even though my hands typed it, it's very surreal and is still is going 'round and 'round in my head.

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Jeromy — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:34:06 -0000

Heidi ~ Well, I suppose if you ever have another child you can redeem yourself in your son's eyes and name the baby Freddy Spaghetti. Or better still, it sounds like a great name for a dog!

Mike ~ Thanks...us either!

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Jeromy — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:43:01 -0000

Yhen ~ They do, that is partially what we're afraid of! ;-) But seriously, what's cool about the name Scout is it means "explorer" and "observer"... I would love it if she ended up observing God's loving work within the world and explored the depths of that love and what it meant for her to thrust herself into it.

Tracy ~ I pass on the word to Jen and we'll let you know when Scout's debut arrives. We may even post a few photos!

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Jeromy — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:27:17 -0000

Thanks Chad. Are you guys in your new place yet? I hate and love moving.

Seven? I never was a huge Seinfield watcher...I am assuming there is a story there...can you fill in my cultural denseness?

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Jeromy — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:36:20 -0000

LOL...Now if you name your future kid "Scout", I'll have to fly out and open a can on you! (in brotherly love, of course)

Re: When We Dream Together

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:29:28 -0000

Hey, but look at all the gracious links I gave you. I count at least 4! Besides, I took the photos (all-be-it with your camera), except the one of Jen and I.

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:17:26 -0000

Actually, it sounds more like Bass. ;-)

Re: When We Dream Together

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:16:12 -0000

You are very generous. Dave is charging me $5,000 for his image royalties.

Re: Purpose of A Mending Shift

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:15:08 -0000

Hi Tony,

Welcome. Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

That's the great thing about living in God's Kingdom is that you never quite know where God will take you! I read Dan's book and really liked it. I'll check out your review when I get a chance. Thanks again for swinging by.

Re: When We Dream Together

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:26:42 -0000

That's a great question. Let me know when you figure out the answer, would you? I've been asking that for 10 years now. Talk about marrying out of our league!!

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:17:27 -0000

For some reason I feel like I'm commenting to myself, but you're welcome for ticking you off. . . any time ;-)

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:27:33 -0000

Linda ~ A Margarita should do just fine. :-P

Heidi ~ That makes two of us! I was really beginning to wonder if I would survive.

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:38:27 -0000

Does not.

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:14:32 -0000

Nuh-uh. Double stamp, no reversies.

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:34:47 -0000

She does, I just don't blog about it.

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:34:27 -0000

Tracy ~ Me too...but something tells me you have simular near-death tales.

Baddog ~ Three girls...wow. But I am sure none of them have you wrapped around their finger, do they? Congrats as well.

Re: Conversation that Kindles Imagination and Courage

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:45:17 -0000

If lived out, I think it could really soften the soil allowing the shoots of honest reform and unity to be realized. But it takes courage to participate in that kind of conversation, because it also requires us to ask honest questions and summon the courage to hear the answers.

How would you answer your question?

Re: Conversation that Kindles Imagination and Courage

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:16:32 -0000

Well said. I think humility, faith and trust are all deeply related.

I like what Mark said, "Great social and spiritual movements germinate when a few isolated people find one another, share deeply, and dream out loud about a different and better future."

Re: Conversation that Kindles Imagination and Courage

Jeromy — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:44:33 -0000

Yes. ;-)

Yea, they are similar. But if pressed, I think I actually prefer “trust” as it is less loaded with Christianiese. For me, trust within this context mirrors courage; courage to be honest; courage to ask real questions; courage to listen to real answers; courage to be open to risk; courage to follow where Jesus is leading regardless of the consequences; courage to enter into the unknown; courage to walk with each other in humility; courage to fail; courage to succeed; courage to let go of my need to control others and the outcome; courage to dream together; courage to listen, really listen…to name a few.

I think the fruit of trust is a loosening of our fears and our tendency to control.

I think that only in the presence of trust, safety and love can such conversations take place.

Re: Where the Power Lies

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:28:03 -0000

See, following Jesus creates all kinds of cool results! We'll call it a Holy Spirit Syncroblog.

Re: Where the Power Lies

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:57:42 -0000

GMTA? (I'm revealing my naiveté)

I need to hear it daily.

Re: Where the Power Lies

Jeromy — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:16:20 -0000

Ohhh...See, I learned something new today. Thanks and have a great 4th!

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:29:25 -0000

Tony, thank you, it would be my honor. I've sent you an email with the HTML for the image-link as well. I'm glad it spoke to you...

Re: Scout Savannah Johnson

Jeromy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:26:05 -0000

~All~ Thanks! She is adorable.

~Chad~ Indeed he is and will. I have a hunkering that God just might love this one too.

Re: an INFP personality

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:32:11 -0000

The Bible says that whatever is true (etc.), to think about such things. I feel that wherever truth is found, God is nearby. I too have found truth in Yung's and Brigg's theories.

Re: Scout Savannah Johnson

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:23:48 -0000

Thanks David and Barbara.

Re: Scout Savannah Johnson

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:43:24 -0000

Thanks Jeff...it's just like riding a bicycle. Yet the bike doesn't cry and keep you up at night ;-)

Re: Scout Savannah Johnson

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:49:49 -0000

Thanks Mike!

Re: Wrestling with God’s Love

Jeromy — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:03:11 -0000

Thanks Jeff...

I do and it has been very fun, rewarding and healing. I love those guys.

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:53:15 -0000

I believe that the "tithe" was given for the primary purpose of caring for the least and forgotten (typically orphans, widows, etc.) in society...for restorative works. It included money, food, land. I believe that the NT practice of "sharing all they had in common" was an expression of the heart of the tithe. If "tithing" is defined as such, then yes, I believe it is something we should participate in. Do I believe it is a law? Nope. In the end, I think people should be released to use their "tithe" in how they feel God is leading them for restorative and love purposes.

Re: See What Happens When Weeds Get Pulled?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:59:33 -0000

Peony plant? Sounds like a weed if I ever heard of one!

I will have to plant a row of seeds next season...this season is gone. But, next year, she will have the most beautiful watermelon garden she's seen.

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:11:11 -0000

Tracy, what do you believe about tithing?

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:20:33 -0000

I hear what you’re saying about “tithe” being a loaded-term. Perhaps new language is appropriate. Any suggestions? I also feel that uncooked thoughts are sometimes the best thoughts to elicit real conversation. Where we simply talk and let our thoughts/ideas flow unfiltered. You bring up some really good points and ideas. I also hear the freedom and passion you now have for giving.

Part of what we are dreaming is that both types of giving can take place. One, where people have the freedom to give as they feel led to the restorative work God is leading them to, and that this giving IS NOT “above and beyond their regular tithes and offerings” (I’m sure you’ve heard that before)…it IS their giving, period. Second is that when people do give during their gatherings and meetings, that 60-70% of this money is set aside for restorative works. The reason is that sometimes we can do more collectively than individually. But even then, this money can be used by anyone as the needs arise. Though the details are not at all fleshed out, we feel that the community as a whole will have a large say in how this money is used. So we are thinking of it this way: You have the freedom to give to the Kingdom as you feel led and part of this giving might include giving to the gathering, if so, that money will be used by the community as the needs arise for Kingdom-restorative purposes. So it’s kind of a both-and scenario, and both of which is covered in grace and freedom.

I think you bring up a good point with your term third party mediator. I never have applied that thinking to giving.

I also think that for too long the church has not trusted the people with their gving-money, and instead asked the people to trust the church with it. Again, this issue to me boils down to control, trust, and the priesthood of all believers.

My question for you it this. Does the use of the term “tithe” grate against you because it is not biblical or because it has been abused?

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:02:10 -0000

You bring up a good point. Some would rather just give and trust that the money is being used in restoritive purposes. But if we can do that and still mantian the "relationship" aspect beetween the giver and the receiver, all the better. Thanks for helping process all this.

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:34:01 -0000

See, we learn and grow best in community! I never thought of the realtionship between God and giver...at least not in "realationship" terms. But it does help us to hear and follow very practically. Perhaps this helps all three relationships (God, ourselves, and the other) to be enhanced and restored.

I am glad I can help sort out the mess in your mind. Perhaps when your done, you can help me sort my mess.

Re: See What Happens When Weeds Get Pulled?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:54:15 -0000

Wow...you must have been soooo mad at your husband!! Poor guy. I mean he cut down your "worship" flowers! Ok, I don't feel so bad. Thanks Rich!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:54:18 -0000

ahhhhhh....

Re: Where the Power Lies

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:21:06 -0000

Thanks Kathy. It is a hard process, indeed. It took me nearly 12 years of paid "ministry" to learn and gather the courage to step into it. Now, it is all I long for! The air is so fresh, isn't it?

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:38:49 -0000

Sampson ~ In part thanks to our recent phone and iChat conversations. I tend to hit the nail periodically, but more often I hit my thumb ;-)

Re: 10 Days and 2500 Miles in 11 Minutes

Jeromy — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:34:52 -0000

Thanks and you're welcome.

Your friend,
Jeromy

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:02:18 -0000

Hi Joel. Great verse. What I meant by "fixin's" is the heavenly, pearly-gate, wingy stuff, not so much any of God's fixin's...just the "heavenly fixin's. Is that what you were meaning? I hope this helps.

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:47:25 -0000

You guys bring up some good points. To me, the "where I am" isn't at all an issue. The important thing is the "who I'm with". Much like with my family, home is where my wife and kids are. Heaven is where God is. And it may be just like God to come down where we are and restore it with his presence. Let me ask you, do you think the Bible leaves enough room for a “heavenly earth” like described above?

Chad, I like what you said about who cares if we are walking in crap as long as we are in the presence of God who is love.

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0000

A little "Huh?" and brain-tweaking is a good thing. I pray we never stop having our brains tweaked by God where God causes us to go, Huh? and, Ahhhh!

Re: Blood vs Birth

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:08:26 -0000

Passing a watermelon? I think I'll pass. ;-)

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:19:18 -0000

David ~ Yea, so, I'm not sure if growing zucchini is my idea of heaven, but to each his own. I just can't wait to taste a Margarita made by God!

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:50:19 -0000

truly amazing/lol, so what happens in heaven when you laugh so hard you pee your pants?

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:49:57 -0000

Actually, the Tobit says it turns to Coors Light. Oh wait, never mind, that's what Coors Light already is. My bad.

(I have never been good working with the original languages)

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:22:42 -0000

David, I recently took a class on Christian Ethics and it too rocked my little world. You bring up a great perspective. I wonder how those who have suffered and are currently suffering from oppression and severe suffering (which we are not) here on earth might answer the original questions? I wonder if heaven was God being fully present with them here on earth, like in the garden, with a restored earth and heavens, if even they would still desire it? or not? I would LOVE to hear their perspective. My uneducated hunch says yes...what do you think?

I am curious, and perhaps you have gained some insight through your class, if those suffering oppression and persecution have a real and deeper sense of God's kingdom and "nearness", though not in their circumstances per se, but internally, in the core of their being?

And so, if heaven is more about God being fully present and in full relationship with us, then perhaps even for them it matters little WHERE heaven IS as much as it is WHO they are WITH. But perhaps the only language they have to imagine a God-fully-present-heaven is other-worldly language...which gives them hope beyond their circumstances.

You also are making me think that when WE (as humans) try to create heaven here on earth, it is really messed up and comes at the cost of other people's hell. But when God restores all things, it will be done right—for all.

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:04:51 -0000

Chad, you got me thinking that what you experienced in Ethiopia sounds very familiar. Sounds like Jesus' words in the beatitudes just might have something to them after all:

- "You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.

- "You're blessed when you feel you've lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be embraced by the One most dear to you.

- "You're blessed when you're content with just who you are—no more, no less. That's the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can't be bought.

- "You're blessed when you've worked up a good appetite for God. He's food and drink in the best meal you'll ever eat.

- "You're blessed when you care. At the moment of being 'care-full,' you find yourselves cared for.

- "You're blessed when you get your inside world—your mind and heart—put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.

- "You're blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That's when you discover who you really are, and your place in God's family.

- "You're blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God's kingdom.

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:43:57 -0000

Writetools...you mentioned that God is big enough to make it all work and I think that is where it boils down to, trust and priorities. If we place the priorities on the outward missional movement of God—blessed to be a blessing—then we trust that God will provide what we need to keep the "system" afloat. To me it is reminiscent of losing your life in order to find it. How can we apply that corporately and systematically?

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:45:40 -0000

I love what you said, to "imagine the wonder of the creator"...now that sounds like heaven!! What book and author, if you don't mind me asking?

Re: Which One Do You Identify With Right Now?

Jeromy — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:58:14 -0000

It is almost a toss up between #3 and #6, but if I had to choose one I would say it is more #3, “You’re blessed when you’re content with just who you are—no more, no less. That’s the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can’t be bought." That said, I'll add that I am growing in being content with myself, but over the past year it has been significant. I have been a "people pleaser" for a lot of my life and I am finding the freedom in simply being human. I have tended to judge myself as being "less" while others judged me as being "more" (usually comes with a pastoral role). I am finding peace in simply being and expressing "me". And that is where #6 comes in, because as I am getting more comfortable with "me" I am seeing how God is working in the outside world.

Beth, you mentioned you're feeling at the end of your rope, why is that? As a side, I had a friend who recently really identified with that one, but I would be curious to see which one he is identifying with now.

Re: Which One Do You Identify With Right Now?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:49:48 -0000

My family and I can deeply resonate with where you are at. We have just come out of a job loss and a long season (nearly 6-months) of waiting and trusting. You are in a VERY fertile period to hear from Daddy. Control and pride -- got to love 'em! When those get broken down all that really remains is trust and humility. Like I said, it sounds like you are in a very fertile time where Daddy can speak his love and provision to your's and your husband's spirit.

For what it's worth, when we were jobless, my spiritual director kept reminding me not to internally rush this time and to view it as a gift (wha?! Backwards sounding, I know, but so often is the Kingdom). Daddy is right there, he is speaking. Those words helped me relax, trust, and enjoy the extra time with my family. Perhaps we need to come to the end of our ropes in order to find Daddy's rope. Thanks for your honesty, Beth.

Re: Which One Do You Identify With Right Now?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:50:29 -0000

It is amazing how much our finances are tied to faith and trust, fear and control...and feeling at the end-of-our-ropes.

Re: What’s the Worth of a Heavenly Earth?

Jeromy — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:46:09 -0000

I agree that we know nothing about oppression. Sure, we have "spiritual" and internal oppression (blah, blah) but not the deep, helpless, physical oppression that many have thrust upon them by others on a daily basis.

No apologies for the grimness, I'll take real over plastic any day. Relief-valve away! But somehow, even with the above "grimness", I feel like you held back what you REALLY wanted to say!

Re: An Old Friend Passed Away and the Regrets that Followed

Jeromy — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:49:24 -0000

Thanks HW. Your remind once more to try to never say anything that I couldn't live with being my last words to someone. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Reflections of Tonight

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:37:50 -0000

Thanks Chad. In all my years in "ministry" I have never had a group like this. It is very sacred ground and I count it a privilege to band with them.

Re: An Old Friend Passed Away and the Regrets that Followed

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:14:28 -0000

Kay, it is kind of an eerie and sad feeling, isn't it? I believe she knows.

Thanks, and a return cyber-hug.

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:18:50 -0000

Jared...even our giving has become "all about us". You offer some good insights.

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:42:45 -0000

Am I alone in this? I think it is a common part of struggling as a human. We tend to be very hard on ourselves internally. I've grown, but I'm not sure I will ever experience complete "freedom" this side of death. If I do, it will only be by God's <del datetime="00">wrath and judgement</del> grace and love. Do you struggle with this?

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:17:18 -0000

You're such a bad, naughty Christian! ;-) I think it just means you're human.

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:56:40 -0000

Tender... ...what a healing word.

A co-worker and I were having this conversation (struck up because of a Bob Dylan song) that we tend to be our own worst enemies and critics, and how so much of our hang ups are simply in our stinkin-thinkin. Then we envisioned what might happen if someone else walked up and told us the things we tell ourselves... ...hence the post.

I agree that it has become less as the greatness of God's love and grace is realized and believed in by me, but it is still there, hiding in the shadows, creeping out and speaking lies.

Re: Reflections of Tonight

Jeromy — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:53:11 -0000

By the way, Chad, and this obviously goes without say, feel free to use this at your men's retreat.

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:31:27 -0000

Complete feedom, Jeff? Or just less?

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:55:23 -0000

Thanks Tim and I couldn't agree more.

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:49:29 -0000

Chad,

First its material for a men's retreat, now its for a sermon outline — keep it up and I m going to start charging you a usage fee! ;-) Do you make audio copies of your messages?

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:49:29 -0000

Chad,

First its material for a men's retreat, now its for a sermon outline — keep it up and I m going to start charging you a usage fee! ;-) Do you make audio copies of your messages?

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:52 -0000

Well, you can burn the CD onto a computer as a MP3 and then upload the MP3...for Wordpress, I believe you'll need to upgrade ($$) the file-types you can upload.

Re: Leave ‘em Be, Don’t Yank the Weeds!

Jeromy — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:52 -0000

Well, you can burn the CD onto a computer as a MP3 and then upload the MP3...for Wordpress, I believe you'll need to upgrade ($$) the file-types you can upload.

Re: My Confession

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:42:12 -0000

33 (or so I'm told). Let me know when you're coming over to play...I have some Guinness waiting.

Very nice What About Bob tie in. You must have been a pastor the way you can spin anything towards "spirituality" (I only say this because it takes one to know one).

Re: Daddy’s Gifts and Promise of Provision

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:35:24 -0000

I am glad you were encouraged, Nicole. I am encouraged by hearing your story. Thanks for stopping by and sharing.

Re: My Confession

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:38:38 -0000

Jonathan, you have an open invitation.

Chad, you grew up. There is also this one game called Mario Brothers. ;-)

Re: My Confession

Jeromy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:11:51 -0000

HW ~ Hence the confession. No excuses. (But man is it a fun and beautiful looking game).

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:00:10 -0000

Yea, feel free too. Thanks for asking...

Re: Livin’ With Other Folks

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:05:29 -0000

There should be some thing where we have to say, "Scout, I couldn’t go to church and worship God if I didn’t try to help that man." I'm glad God has been hammering you with this.

When Craig says "looking the other way" does he mean how we as Christians ignore them or look towards them, looking away from ourselves?

Re: See What Happens When Weeds Get Pulled?

Jeromy — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:21:03 -0000

Due respect received. I agree. I actually am a big fan of pulling literal "plant" weeds. I am not so much a fan of us judging those who are different from us, labeling them (people) weeds, and then dismissing them, judging them, or worse (i.e. burning at the stake kinda stuff). Mine was not a literal point, but a figurative one, and like you mentioned, so was Jesus'. I actually love the figurative language Jesus used and the points he was trying to make through that use of language.

Re: Livin’ With Other Folks

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:00:50 -0000

Happy now? (see the TWO posts above). This empty room just turned into a room of humor and the laughter is echoing, baby, echoing.

During this season, I am only guaranteeing 2-3 posts a week — short of my usual 6-9, I know, but as the Bible says—or so I've heard—"Good things come to those who wait".

Re: Livin’ With Other Folks

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:25:40 -0000

;-) I aim to please.

Re: My Wife’s Sunday Morning Humor - A Love Balled by Tripod: Gonna Make You Happy

Jeromy — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:07:30 -0000

BBQ? 11? I must be getting old...que'?

Re: A Friend of Mine Wanted to Buy a Shirt for Our Baby, Scout…

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:22:52 -0000

Too funny. Oh the power we have as parents to screw up our kids! Bwahahahaha.

Re: My Confession

Jeromy — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:25:21 -0000

hahaha...yea, I was thinking either molestor or porn star (like that Jack-in-the-Box commercial). But stache aside, killer game. I get about 2 hours a week to play (talk about rationing).

Re: A Friend of Mine Wanted to Buy a Shirt for Our Baby, Scout…

Jeromy — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:13:21 -0000

My vote is #5 or #8.

Re: Where Does Conflict Come From?

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:10:11 -0000

Belchazar - Sounds like a great book...can I pre-order?

Jonathan - Thanks for being a good friend and not waiting to die to participate in my restoration. ;-)

Re: What if the Church Was Invisible?

Jeromy — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:51:43 -0000

Thank you Brad. What if, indeed.

Re: My Wife’s Sunday Morning Humor - A Love Balled by Tripod: Gonna Make You Happy

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:09:37 -0000

You can use it for your men's retreat. I'll give you a combo-royalty package deal. I love the line where his wife is dancing (probably sensually) and he compliments her, then asks her to move to the left 'cause she's blocking the TV. LOL

Re: Where the Hell is Matt? (when all will dance)

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:11:33 -0000

Jen cried too. I got choked up, but for me it was just a beautiful expression of things to come. It seemed so pure and simple, you know? Not complicated...just the essence.

Re: Where the Hell is Matt? (when all will dance)

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:52:06 -0000

"Real Relationship" ... just the sound of those words brings peace to my heart. Thanks for swinging by, Amy.

Re: Where the Hell is Matt? (when all will dance)

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:37:57 -0000

I can imagine it resonated with Sophie and Eli deeply, coming from Ethiopia. That was one of my favorite parts when he was dancing in a room with all kinds of African children and then he just stopped and began to laugh. Did S & E begin dancing?

Re: Where the Hell is Matt? (when all will dance)

Jeromy — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:45:20 -0000

Chad - Too precious.

(and no, not in the Gollum sense or pronunciation of the word "precious"—just in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't, but one can't be too sure, after all, this is the internet and things can be read into and misinterpreted...I mean I'd hate for you to think that I was likening your new kids to some Middle-Earth hobbit who was corrupted, twisted and tortured by the One Ring to Rule Them All, but even if I were, I know you'd still love me 'cause that is the kind of person you are. There I go again waxing inelegantly and rambling. Doh! Oh, that reminds me of another friend I have who really like the Simpsons . . . )

By the way, what happened to the Jesus-Chad icon you used to use?

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:37:36 -0000

In most churches, here in the States, pastors are paid from the tithe.

Re: The Evolution of Dance

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:26:30 -0000

Jen found it; you'll have to see her for your time-refund. So did your foot tap? A smile form? A little laughter ensue?

Re: Where Does Conflict Come From?

Jeromy — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:35:56 -0000

Andrea, thank you for swinging by. You said:

"I offered 'conflict' absolute acceptance versus rejection...!"

"I don’t want to be hatred anymore; please help me, I’m terrified…"

Those words spoke deeply to me. The more we stop running from the conflict, darkness and hatred, the more we can see them for what they are. Your cry of not wanting to be hatred anymore is profound. A friend of mine who never considered themselves spiritual has found great peace in the practice of breathing.

Again, thank you. I do feel however that even those who embody love can be hated and killed by others. But when love becomes a reality in us we realize that death is nothing to fear...when even death can be embraced and conquered by love.

Blessings and peace,
Jeromy

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:41:30 -0000

Daniel, you reminded me of this one, "Warning: In Case of the Rapture This Car Will Be Unmanned." Who cares that I just caused a 50-car pile up, I'm in heaven--sucks to be you!

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:41:45 -0000

Chad, you mean Jesus doesn't make my bones stronger? And so my theological deconstruction continues!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think I'm picking up on your sarcasm about the Bible being filled with such examples and that it must be true due to our emphasis.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:50:31 -0000

Abmo, I think either of your first two examples would begin to pave the way towards humility and healing, especially the first. It's funny what you wrote in your last "like you" example...I almost typed those exact words but wanted to see where the conversation would go without me stearing it. One ammendment might be: "None of us are perfect . . . but we are loved . . . like you." I lean more toards "love" because forgiveness is ultimately an expression of love. I lean towards not using "Christians" because it continues the "Us" and "Them" mentality. Your thoughts?

Re: Where Does Conflict Come From?

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:08:55 -0000

Andrea, you said: "Is our current awareness of love in its highest or ultimate expression? Do we know love’s fullest potential; and does any in humanity truly exist without fear awareness, therefore the purity of love?" No, we do not know Love in its ultimate expression. No, none of us as humans exsist without fear. But I do believe Love's ultimate expression and potential can be seen and one day fully experienced in Jesus.

"I can not heal another’s fear-based lifeforce, but through the offering of acceptance and communication in the deepest levels..." So many of our problems seem to lie right there, thinking we can heal and fix other's fear-based exsistance and all the crap that is expressed because of it. We do this at the avoidence of looking at our own fear-based exsitence, thinking we can -- and should -- fix them while ignoring ourselves. I think Jesus said it well when he told us to "love others and we love ourselves".

Thank you for your words. Your humilty is apparent in your words.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:38:09 -0000

Makes perfect sense. You did a good job explaining it. You're right, we cannot control how they label "us".

They way I see it is this: Perhaps God just sees all of us as his kids.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:41:44 -0000

You slipped one in between my previous comment... ;-)

Wow, Brennan has a way of explaining things so simply and beautifully. What book is this from?

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:59:20 -0000

Jonathan, what's ironic is that the heart of it is to rebut the “Christians just think they’re perfect!” image, and in the process of trying to “correct” that image they play into the condemnation/arrogant image. Perhaps if we focused on loving them instead of correcting our image we might make some headway.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:15:30 -0000

Amy, the rub is when we have fear, guilt, shame, pride and self-hate deeply embedded in ourselves as individuals most of our messages follow suite, you know? From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks...or writes.

Messages only of love...I too long for that day.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:55:14 -0000

I understood what you were saying. But now that I read your comment a second time, How dare you call me arrogant!! That's it, the friendship is over. ;-)

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:22:24 -0000

Colin - I just wanted to say welcome... LOL Very true. A friend of mine posted something to this "one thing" vein: http://monachusbellator.wordpress.com/2008/08/0...

Tracy - Indeed. But remember, Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship ;-) — or so we say.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:22:35 -0000

I am sure people were swerving off the roads and beating down the church doors to get saved.

I like the second one.

We had a roadside sign on our old church that once read, "Maximum Sex -- This Sunday". People were swerving off the roads as well, but for other reasons.

Re: What’s Your Play?

Jeromy — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:11:42 -0000

Funny you mention crossword puzzles. My wife's grandpa used to do them all the time and introduced Jen to them. Now have a CWP book in our house that we both chip away at. I'll pick it up and see that she put 7 more words down.

Skip-Bo...that sounds like it is ringing a bell but I can't recall. What's the game?

I hope you find more laughter and play in life. I really thing that our Daddy loves seeing us play!

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:14:28 -0000

Tminut (regarding first comment)

He did use those words after the disciples asked him to send her away. What do you think he was saying/doing by using the word "dog" towards her (a gentile) in the presence of the Jewish disciples?

He then went on, listened to her request and healed her daughter; in a sense giving to a "dog" (gentile) what was meant for the "children" (jews).

(regarding second comment)
It is great to hear that it is leading you towards greater love and forgiveness. I believe that he will reveal himself to everyone and draw all men to Him. What a day that will be. Or as a few friends put it, Wha-Hooo!

Re: What’s Your Play?

Jeromy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:23:18 -0000

Nice.

My son beats me every time in Guitar Hero! Ugh...I frakin' taught him how to play! What's that about?

Re: The Evolution of Dance

Jeromy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:31:56 -0000

Good to hear...I'm glad it brought a smile to your face and a chuckle to your belly.

Re: A New Kind of Grief, One of Hope

Jeromy — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:52:57 -0000

Definitely. I look forward to reading how God (papa) is speaking to and shaping you.

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:20:59 -0000

I saw this on a license frame today:

"Jesus . . . Don't leave earth without him."

Re: A New Kind of Grief, One of Hope

Jeromy — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:27:23 -0000

I love that he is a God who searches and seeks and drags and loves until...

Re: God of Today

Jeromy — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:45:04 -0000

I saw my father in the quiet moments of playing with my daughter today and putting my son to sleep tonight as we talked about his first day back to school.

Re: Good Friends

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:31:10 -0000

Lori, I passed on your email and website to Matt as you requested. It makes me smile to hear your heart and your desire to give back. On behalf of Matt, thank you!

Re: God Loves Us Because of His Knowledge About Us, Not In Spite of It

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:53:24 -0000

Me too, Linda, me too. I can't imagine the love God has/is if we feel what we feel with only a small dose of God's image in us. It makes me happy to see and hear what God is whispering in your heart.

Re: God Loves Us Because of His Knowledge About Us, Not In Spite of It

Jeromy — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:19:52 -0000

I read your story and was blessed (for some reason I am not able to comment too easily over there...I can usually just add my Name and URL to comment on Blogger). So true, perfect love drives out fear.

Re: Johnson and Johnson Gets Tough…

Jeromy — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:58:43 -0000

I think that is what they put on those buffalo wings last-night! Brought a tear to this eye...

Re: Some Things I Love…

Jeromy — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:14:54 -0000

Jonathan, indeed, but my wife was out by 9:00pm last-night :-(

Re: Johnson and Johnson Gets Tough…

Jeromy — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:18:52 -0000

Tracy, all I have to say is that it takes one to know one...

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Jeromy — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:56:26 -0000

I saw this yesterday. On the license plate frame it said:

"SMILE . . . Jesus loves you"

Then right below it on the bumper there was a sticker that read:

"Turn or Burn"

Am I the only one that sees the disconnect between those two messages?

Re: Some Things I Love, In Images

Jeromy — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:59:18 -0000

That is one of the reasons why I love images and graphics. Plus, I am a visual learning so it works well with me.

Re: God’s List-less Kingdom

Jeromy — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:01:49 -0000

It would be wonderful to burn it indeed...the bugger is that it keeps coming back.

Amy, I like how you added "updating" to the things we do with our lists. Sadly, so true.

Re: Attic Blog: Ever Dreamed?

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:08:14 -0000

Daniel - I like it...very catchy.

Amy - You are always such a blessing.

Dave - They do indeed. Question: I wonder if God tears up when God's dreams go unfulfilled / unrealized?

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:12:49 -0000

David, my point was less about the accuracy of the diagram and more about God's heart for our unity and love of each other. Too often we judge and distance ourselves from those whom God has created and loved because they believe differently from us. I offer that this is not Jesus' heart nor intent. Nor should it be ours.

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:19:07 -0000

David, I'm glad these diagrams helped you. You said, "but rather TRUTH and Personal perception" . . . very insightful. The bugger is that we view our personal perception as Truth, huh? ugh.

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Jeromy — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:13:12 -0000

David . . . though I read all the comments posted, I do not / cannot always reply. If I do, I usually try to comment on one or two things I liked or found challenging. If there is a specific question asked of me, I try to answer it, unless it is a just a series of questions asked rhetorically or to simply make a point/argument. Sometimes the busyness of my life does not permit me to comment. Sometimes the absence of comments is simply that, an absence of comments.

Re: Attic Blog: Did Jesus Ever Live?

Jeromy — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:15:01 -0000

Hmph, well put. I love Brennan...he has a tender wisdom about him and isn't afraid to shoot straight and loving.

Re: Attic Blog: Did Jesus Ever Live?

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:45:16 -0000

For some reason Amy your comments always get put in my spam queue...I wonder if it is because of the hyperlink to you blog? Oh well.

You make a good point. I also realize that in certain expressions of Christianity the life and teachings of Jesus are central to their faith and life.

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:20:11 -0000

I simply look around and see what the focus on "correct doctrine" has accomplished and it isn't pretty. I do not feel that we will ever find unity through "simular belief". I believe unity can only be found through personal humility and love.

You might believe differently. I'm not here to convince you.

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:18:53 -0000

Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you're saying.

Re: Are Children’s Stories Parables in Disguise?

Jeromy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:36:37 -0000

hahaha, too funny. I love the positive side of having an elephant: easy to find. I too feel that we are not very good judges, nor do I think we were ever supposed to adopt that role from God.

By the way, are you in marketing? If not, you might want to consider a career change... ;-)

Re: Are Children’s Stories Parables in Disguise?

Jeromy — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:25:59 -0000

Beth ~ "How often in my life do I make judgments about situations, things, people and call them “not good” and then send them away or avoid them?" Too often, I'm afraid, in my case. I may not always send them away, but I tend to avoid them.

All ~ Here was a bit of my take. As I read this story I thought about how we tend to cast God into our image. It goes something like this: God looks at the bulk of humanity (in the story it was 7 out of 8 animals, or 87%) and sends them away because they didn't do this or believe that, in a sense, because they were not "perfect". As I look at this interpretation of scripture I see it closely mirrors our human response to "judge and dismiss", perhaps because that is what we really want to happen to all those who don't behave and believe as we do. So we create a God who uses fear as a primary motivator for humans to choose God: "Do this or believe that and I will not send you away, but will love you." Perhaps God says something more along the lines of what Daniel suggested, "I love you because of who you are and because I created you and I invite you to stay and participate. Would you like to?" And that in the end, it is this very expression of love that draws all men to God, and causes every tongue to confess and every knee to bow, and restores and reconciles all creation back to God.

Anyway, that was how this story stood out to me.

Re: Attic Blog: Did Jesus Ever Live?

Jeromy — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:08:46 -0000

Funny how that works. Glad I could help you resonate... ;-)

Re: Are Children’s Stories Parables in Disguise?

Jeromy — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:22:03 -0000

Nicely put.

Re: The New Modern Translation of John 3:16 and 17

Jeromy — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:39:51 -0000

I have not always "heard" it this way. There are many people who do not believe this, but unfortunately, there are those who do. I also think this is the "overall" perception people who are outside the church have (right or wrong) based on what they see and hear from the church (again, not universally, but often enough I fear).

For the record, I'm not in the "nobody goes to hell" (i.e. separation from God) boat either...I believe that option may still be open to those who, when after they see and hear God and God's love in person--face to face, chose to reject him. I see this as a probable improbability. But either way, that is God's burden, not mine.

Re: The New Modern Translation of John 3:16 and 17

Jeromy — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:01:55 -0000

Me too. I am OK with "I just don't know...", but I am also OK with "this is what I believe..."

Wow...I hope she finds and believes the grace and love that is available to her.

Re: Attic Blog: Did Jesus Ever Live?

Jeromy — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:23:50 -0000

Very insightful, Colin.

For some reason I have always been more drawn to the Gospels than the letters. Perhaps because they are primarily stories about the one whom we follow and of those who followed him while he walked the earth.

Sometimes I wonder if we follow Paul more than we do Jesus? Or if we interpret the teachings of Jesus through Paul, rather than taking the teachings of Paul and interpreting them in light of Jesus'. Should Jesus' words weigh more heavily than Pauls? After all, it is HIM we are following.

Curious about your thoughts...?

Re: Free

Jeromy — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:07:28 -0000

Having kids indeed does put us on sacred ground. Your experience of your kid imitating you has been my experience as well, for both the good and the bad. But that is where the grace of parenting comes in as well . . .

Re: Free

Jeromy — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:31:13 -0000

For me, part of what draws me to this photo is the sense of freedom and joy Ashlyn has by simply riding with her Daddy. I see trust. I see love. I see life. I have been in a season lately of simply trying to trust and go along for the ride with my Daddy. To me, there has been significant joy and peace from simply "being" on a ride with Daddy.

Re: Free

Jeromy — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:29:42 -0000

Thank you Amy for your wise and encouraging words. I sense a special connection between me and my daughter -- something is just there, you know? You mentioned being involved emotionally in her life . . . that's the key, isn't it. I sometimes see fathers with their teenage daughters and it brings joy to me, but the thought of them being teens also scares the &%$# out of me, if I were honest.

My sense is that you are very passionate about this idea of daddys being involved in their daughter's lives. Is there a reason or a story behind your passion?

Re: Courage by Example

Jeromy — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:36:48 -0000

Beth ~ I love your insight. It is almost like his goal is not simply to get us to do things and sit back watching, but to give us the courage so he can do it with us and have our relationship bloom because of it. That he does it so we can ride together. Beautiful picture. Thank you for sharing how God was speaking to you . . . that picture was a blessing.

Re: Going to Church to Avoid Being the Church

Jeromy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:13:38 -0000

May we be indeed.

You make a great point that we are not simply avoiding being the church, but think we are being it by simply going to church and doing church things.

I saw that you are a lead pastor. Do you teach/lead along these lines? If so, how is the coongregation responding?

Re: Free

Jeromy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:20:54 -0000

Well, thank you for encouraging our Dad-Daughter relationship and for sharing a bit more about your story. My wife was blessed by what you shared as well.

Again, thanks!

Re: Going to Church to Avoid Being the Church

Jeromy — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:24:55 -0000

I too have witnessed churches who decide to move in this direction lose people to other churches that offer great programs. It has really good for me to have a group of friends who really want to live simply and deeply as we try to follow Jesus together. It gets messy at times, but in the end it is really real.

"The church is His people on a journey together and along the way we help each other which reflects Him to the world." Very true.

Re: Free

Jeromy — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:49:37 -0000

Welcome to the Blogosphere! Yea, my wife made that image with our little phone camera. She did good, I must say. Good luck in your parental godship basking.

"securely wrapped tight and completely content to be so" - Following Jesus in one sentence. I love it!

Re: Courage by Example

Jeromy — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:15:47 -0000

Lot's of times, which brings me both joy and sorrow. But it also allows me to rest in the fact that even my kid's brokenness will lead them to grace and love.

But sometimes I wish they'd listen to me more! ;-)

Re: Free

Jeromy — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:40:38 -0000

Welcome, Marcy. Well put.

Re: Possession, The Death of Love

Jeromy — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:42:31 -0000

Thanks JB.

Marcy, I haven't read it but it sounds intriguing. What is the overall synopsis of the book?

Re: Possession, The Death of Love

Jeromy — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:58:15 -0000

Amy ~ I hear what you are saying, but unfortunately even people who are "saved" and have the Holy Spirit struggle deeply with a need to possess, and sometimes they now try to possess God through religion, orthodoxy, etc.

I love what you are saying at the core, but I think that it is less a result of "salvation" (one moment in time) and more a result of following and becoming more like Jesus (which I think you hinted at). Jesus did not feel the need to possess and he loved deeply.

And I think you're on to something: the more we allow God to fully possess us rather than us possess God, the more we are able to love and see beauty in all. Great thoughts.

Re: Possession, The Death of Love

Jeromy — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:22:02 -0000

Thanks Tracy.

Marcy, sounds like a really goog read.

Re: Belief and Seeing

Jeromy — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:07:07 -0000

Well said, Daniel.

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:15:49 -0000

Clark, it seems to be. There is a group of us here that are dreaming of that very idea, but asking what that might look like in our context. Thanks for swinging by and sharing!

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:14:04 -0000

I know you'd never think that.

The weird thing is that not any one person would get rid of the building, it would simply happen as a result of a bad economy and previous financial decisions.

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:46:02 -0000

So Adam, you are not very passionate are you? ;-)

Thanks for swinging by and sharing, both here and on Facebook.

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:13:08 -0000

Dave, I think what you are saying is true...it is an oversimplification of a much deeper problem. As you said, " It’s the ever-present battle with selfishness. We can’t afford things that matter because we reach for things that don’t. To some that is a building, to some it isn’t."

My point wasn't so much to ditch the building, but to point out how dependent the "mission of God and the gospel" in America has become on a strong economy. If that collapses so does the majority of "churches" as we know them. That fact hit me and I wanted to share it.

As I am processing this out loud, the other thing that breaks my heart (really, it does) are two financial numbers. One is the amount the American church has spent on buildings and property over the past 30+ years. The second is the amount the American church has spent on caring for the poor and the-least-of-these. I have no idea how to find out what these two numbers are exactly, but I have a hunkering the first number is substantially--transcendently--greater than the latter. Like you said, the issue is he heart, selfishness, pride and greed. I just don't picture Jesus being very happy about this. To me it is a justice issue. Sure, it is good to have a place to call home, but when millions don't even have homes I cannot justify building a mansion, be it a personal one or a corporate-church one. (Nor am I implying you are saying this...just processing here).

We protestants look back on the catholic cathedrals and Vatican city and cannot believe they would spend so much money on such vanity. And yet we do this as we sit in our multi-million dollar high-tech boxes that we built for the “sake of the gospel”. Nothing is new under the sun.

So to me the issue isn’t just “to have a building or not”, but how would Jesus do it? What would he say to us if he were to come today as he did 2,000 years ago? I fear my words would be tame compared to his. But I might be wrong (it wouldn’t be the first time).

Thanks for the your words and causing me to dig deeper…

Re: Why I Am So Proud of My Wife, My Bride

Jeromy — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:27:52 -0000

Thanks Amy and Tracy.

To all reading. Keep the blessings flowing towards my bride...she deserves them!!

Re: Why I Am So Proud of My Wife, My Bride

Jeromy — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:02:48 -0000

HW~ I couldn't agree more

Linda~ That is my goal when writing, to make you cry at work. Finally!!! We love walking with you and Dave too...thanks for being our friends.

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:14:11 -0000

Hey John, what you are doing as you follow Jesus takes alot of courage. I aplaud you. Not because you are selling your building/property, but because you are following Jesus' lead in your ministry to the point that EVEN IF he asked you to sell everything (in this case a building and land), you are willing to do that. Koodoes, mate!

I agree that it is about following Jesus and his lead. I think part of the burden I carry is that I cannot picture Jesus leading any church in spending millions of dollars on brick and mortar, etc. at the neglect of things he was very black-and-white about, you know? I really think his heart breaks at this injustice. But that is simply my opinion/take on the whole thing and is probably loaded with my own judgements and projections.

A book that really changed me was "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger."

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:59:27 -0000

You're absolutely correct, and the cool thing is that God is birthing in some of us a desire to re-structure "church" so it is not financially burdened by an owned building thus freeing up 60-70% of the money to be a blessing to others. This is where Jesus is leading us. In order for him to do that, he has to place in me a disconnect with the current structure where 60-70% (or more) of the money goes into owning / maintaining buildings. I get that.

As I think out loud here, if someone feels that if Jesus were here in flesh-and-blood that he would point to a hill and say, "I want you to build a $2,000,000+ building there so people can gather as a group once a week", then they need to follow in that direction. I personally cannot see Jesus ever encouraging or saying such a thing. Especially when it puts such a financing burden on a group of people that they cannot (or choose not) to care for the needs of the poor and suffering. I actually see Jesus saying quite the opposite (and the church in Acts seemed to live into his words and example)...give, sell, die...so that you and others may receive, be blessed, live. But again, this is how I see it.

I am not offended, just sad and burdened, which is leading me slowly into a different way.

Re: Deep Recession and the Church

Jeromy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:09:02 -0000

Again, I'm not asking churches to sell their buildings or condemning those who have them. I am saying that God is leading me in a different direction, sharing the reasons why, and pointing out that if the economy tanks a lot of churches (because of the debt and financial burden they carry, mostly due to buildings etc) will be foreclosed on and empty. I really hope that does not happen. But if it does, I see a lot of fruit growing from the ashes.

Re: Belief and Seeing

Jeromy — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:00:13 -0000

Hi Yen, very true. Thanks for passing by!

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Jeromy — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:38:01 -0000

That's why they call me Mr. Sensitive. ;-)

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Jeromy — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:28:55 -0000

I am looking for a new friend in the Oregon area seeing as my old friend, Sampson, can't be trusted any longer.

Tracy, she isn't too sensitive, but seeing as this blog is public and facebook is more secure, I opted to refrain here. You're 49? Who'd have guessed. Judging from your written words you don't sound a year over 36. ;-)

Re: The First 2008 Presidential Debate — Eye Contact?

Jeromy — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:55:43 -0000

I agree. I really wanted to see a debate rather than hearing their talking points re-hashed. I bet you anything that in the next "debate" McCain will be making eye contact with Obama all night long (sadly probably due to his campaign advisors reacting to public opinion).

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Jeromy — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:57:06 -0000

Wha? Matt? You're speechless? That's a first! hahaha ;-p

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Jeromy — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:20:44 -0000

See, even what is meant to be a age-compliment is taken as an assualt...with friends like this, who needs enemies!

Wait, if 36 is immature, what is 33?

Re: The Second 2008 Presidential Debate — Answer the Questions!

Jeromy — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:44:31 -0000

Yea, it got old fast. I always think that is an odd question, "Who won?"...it is SOO subjective.

Re: The First 2008 Presidential Debate — Eye Contact?

Jeromy — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:46:17 -0000

It is so crucial in our culture -- eye contact is. Its funny though, in the Native American culture looking into someones eyes is a sign of disrespect. Perhaps McCain is Native American?

Re: The Second 2008 Presidential Debate — Answer the Questions!

Jeromy — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:19:39 -0000

Everything seems so calculated, huh. The questions. The "answers". I always thought debates were supposed to be raw and real.

It was interesting how some viewed health care as an individual right of every human and some viewed it as individual's responsibility. Quite honestly, I'm just happy when I have it from an employer.

Re: The Second 2008 Presidential Debate — Answer the Questions!

Jeromy — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:47:48 -0000

Baddog, rants are always accepted here. I heard the other day that we don't want to learn the lessons from this, just fix it and move on. Man, I would hate to be president for the next eight years...imagine inheriting this economy? and the war stuff?

What scares me is what we are seeing in California...we are in a cash crisis...solution? Borrow more and get further in debt. My question is this. Where is all this magical Billions-and-Billions of dollars coming from?

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:14:19 -0000

Wow, another one in Sacramento too? hahaha...that's funny, 'cause I live in Sacramento and not a peep in the morning news.

Re: The Second 2008 Presidential Debate — Answer the Questions!

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:15:46 -0000

My take is that McCain says, "Vote for me because if you don't, that one will make your life miserable and destroy everything" while Obama says, "Vote for me because I will fix everything, including global warming, in only eight years". I like what you said about helping us get it done...very insiteful.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:39:07 -0000

SAN RAMON,
CA, US 10/09/2008 10:06 A.M. TRAIN DERAILMENT

Yea, San Roman, to Oakland, to West Sac...that's a 110-mile-long train!:

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:29:43 -0000

I'm starting to think this might have been a terrorist attack!! lol

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:42:51 -0000

Perhaps, but Kern County is in Bakersfield, CA, nearly 300 miles south of the Bay Area and Sacramento...wow...this train get's longer by the comment!

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:27:35 -0000

Yea, Chris, a lot of what I wrote is very tongue-in-cheek and facetious. I guess the bottom line is that it seems they had issues with a train (or possibly not) and use "train derailment" for a catch-all term. I just could not help but see the humor in all of it...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:21:08 -0000

Alex, obviously the kind of trains that FedEx doesn't use! I feel for your lack of PS3-ness...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:22:41 -0000

Bettysayhi, you're welcome...is that your package next to mine? Or, maybe they are just school books.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:50:41 -0000

Dan, I guess my DVDs are on the 3:35 train with your notebook.

SAN PABLO,
CA, US 10/10/2008 3:35 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
SAN RAMON,
CA, US 10/09/2008 10:06 A.M. TRAIN DERAILMENT

So it derailed in San Ramon and my package tumbled and skidded along the East Bay (maybe in flames) to finally arrive in San Pablo 30-hours later.

I'm not holding my breath but maybe UPS might come through after all. I'll be expecting my door bell to ring at 11:59 tonight with a dis-shoveled and half-burned UPS courier holding my package.

The saga continues...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:01:40 -0000

ROFLOL! I'm okay with scented DVDs, not sure how Annie is going to feel about her food items smelling like bergamot or verbena... ;-)

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:16:29 -0000

LMoreland,

Thanks, feel free to peruse around the site.

Good job in your interrogation. Did you happen to ask why they have trains derailing in 8 locations spanning 210 miles? I'd love to hear that answer...

I think we should all call UPS at the same time. Here's the number: 1-800-PICK-UPS (742-5877)

PICK-UPS...you're kidding' right?

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:27:41 -0000

Eric, well for what it's worth, if they did collide then you are going to have a guitar amp smelling like coconut lime verbena or bergamot and covered in makeup. See, it's not so bad...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:50:36 -0000

or we can just have Kermit sing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wg_L0wGTyA

I hope this helps as you embark on learning Lime in the Coconut. ;-)

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:10:13 -0000

I don't need to call...I'm getting a minute-by-minute update from all y'all.

So Chris, if I understand you correctly, your package was supposed to be delivered in San Jose, got "derailed" (I'm still not buying it) in San Jose, then arrived mysteriously across the Bay in San Pablo only to say that it will arrive back in San Jose to your house by the end of the day tonight?

I echo your doubts. Somehow I just don't picture UPS showing up at my door on a Friday night (now 7:00pm and counting).

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:17:04 -0000

Well John, since you asked how we're doing, I've already downed two glasses of wine to drown out the stress of my derailed Disney DVD movies. Perhaps a Margarita is in order for these dark times...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:50:05 -0000

hinv ~ Perhaps you can call them in the morning and offer that suggestion, of course by then, who knows, your package may be in Delaware experiencing a plane crash.

Annie ~ Derailment Fellowship, LOL. I feel like we should all meet at a pub and share some pints recalling the ol' times of on-time package delivery.

John ~ I told my 7-year-old son that the train carrying our movies derailed, he was like, "Really? Cool!"

HB ~ So you're the terrorist that caused all this!! ;-)

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:08:32 -0000

See a photo of the Kern County derailment in updated post above.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:41:53 -0000

I hope the train conductor is enjoying my Disney movies with his family as he amplifies his TV while dressed in athletic apparel and playing with gun powder.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:34:07 -0000

hinv, what are you waiting for to be delivered?

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:22:39 -0000

So it continues...here is my status:

Type: Package
Status: Delivered
Delivered On: 10/13/2008, 3:44 P.M.

Yet I have no package at my house! Natta, zip, nothing! What can Brown do for me? How about beginning at simply delivering packages! LOL

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:29:31 -0000

So it ends (for me at least). Our package of Disney DVDs was delivered to the wrong house. We live on Briarcliff Court...it was delivered to Briarcliff Drive.

What can Brown do for me? Perhaps delivering packages is too complicated and Brown needs to go back to the basics, like learning to read!!

Ugh, perfect ending to a not-so-perfect delivery.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:21:30 -0000

Yea, or they are all sitting around playing your guitar through Eric's amp.

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:08:28 -0000

Brett, man that sounds like a whole lot of fun. I own a Jeep Wrangler but am too poor to beef it up for any serious off roading...sounds like you know how to tear it up. How often do you get out to the desert?

Re: Jesus Laughed

Jeromy — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:30:53 -0000

Yea, it was painted by contemporary American artist, Ralph Kozak. I love the thought of Jesus laughing, crying, angry, sad, joyful...

Re: Jesus Laughed

Jeromy — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:02:14 -0000

Got to love UPS! I'm sure Jesus would not be smiling if he used UPS... ;-)

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:23:21 -0000

I did, but it was intially delivered to the wrong house after all that:

"So it ends (for me at least). Our package of Disney DVDs was delivered to the wrong house. We live on Briarcliff Court…it was delivered to Briarcliff Drive.

What can Brown do for me? Perhaps delivering packages is too complicated and Brown needs to go back to the basics, like learning to read!!

Ugh, perfect ending to a not-so-perfect delivery."

Re: A Cinderella Theology

Jeromy — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:01:21 -0000

Yea, one of those hidden gems that catch you when you least expect it.

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Jeromy — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:16:08 -0000

Amy ~ Can I say I'm jealous?

Jonathan ~ And you? (my wife loves it...me, well, I'm sure it is obvious how I feel about dear ol' Anne)

Chad ~ Let them have it, brother! Call down fire and brimstone on that library. Ugh, there I go again...a bit overboard i suppose.

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Jeromy — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:25:07 -0000

I thought you had to provide reasons for why you needed an absentee ballot (i.e. out of town, disabled, military leave, etc.). But with a little more digging I found out that CA got rid of that clause and now any registered voter can vote via mail without providing a reason. http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_m.htm

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Jeromy — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:24:25 -0000

So I just noticed that the photo I chose for this post looks like a bunch of people standing at urinals...LOL.

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Jeromy — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:12:59 -0000

Tracy, but stranger things have been known to happen...

Re: Saturday Night Live - Gov. Sarah Palin and Tina Fey - Press Conference

Jeromy — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:41:28 -0000

Doesn't she though? It is hard to tell them apart sometimes...her accent is perfect. Yea, my love for SNL has been restored. I have been watching the new Weekend Update and my wife and I just crack up...they are a great duo.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage, Prop 8, and Jesus’ Words

Jeromy — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:06:44 -0000

Colin ~ "the absence of resentment and envy, the deep indifference towards the non-believers’ way of life. If today’s so-called fundamentalists really believe they have found their way to truth, why should they feel threatened by non-believers," Very wise words...thanks for finding and sharing them.

Chad ~ LOL Well, I'm still upset you never returned my text message breaking up with you.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage, Prop 8, and Jesus’ Words

Jeromy — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:31:48 -0000

I'm from CA, and I still have no idea. My hunch is that will not be the case. Right now churches/pastors can decline to perform a wedding ceromonies based on religious reasons (i.e. some pastors refuse to marry non-christians, or people not a part of thier church/denomination etc). But I could be wrong. I know Maryland has been marrying same-sex couples for a while now, perhaps you can find out how it has or hasn't effected churches in Maryland...

Re: Train Derailment or UPS Covering For Ineptness?

Jeromy — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:19:16 -0000

Hear, hear. Sigh...

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:01:37 -0000

Mike, it is hosted on another server, but Wordpress is the software behind the scenes. It allows for much more flexibility and you can edit the HTML till your heart's content. It is a 3rd party template that I tweaked.

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:01:54 -0000

Beth, yea, and much like moving I was up very late a few nights unpacking and learning a lot about how new home ownership works and how much work is involved, as you learned as well. I love your new site as well.

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:05:19 -0000

Tracy, I knew you would like that. In fact, when I was tweaking choosing and tweaking, your voice was whispering in my head, Fix the long-scrolling-comment, bub. Happy now? The bathroom is down the hall and to the left.

HW, I actually have two brownies left. I would UPS them to you but I fear their train might derail. I guess you'll just have to wait until the create a way to post food to the internet. ;-)

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:02:07 -0000

Jonathan, yep...that's Animal on the drums. I totally remember watching that show growing up, in fact, thanks...now I have the theme running through my head.

Amy, let me just say it is not the muppet band (I lied to Jonathan to make him feel good about himself). I accept your cyber cookies as long as the chocolate chips do not co-mingle with the oatmeal...ask Jen, I highly dislike oatmeal. But CCC? Bring them on, just include a glass of milk.

Re: Just Curious…

Jeromy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:32:17 -0000

Nice...

Re: Just Curious…

Jeromy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:07:57 -0000

Yea, but look how you turned out. I'll have Ashlyn stop eating it immediatly! ;-)

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:48:22 -0000

Here to serve, brother...I do what I can!

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Jeromy — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:31:10 -0000

Thanks Kathy, always good to see you stop by for a visit!

Re: Keep The ‘Hawk or Cut the Hawk?

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:11:48 -0000

Colin - Thanks for the movie insider...to be honest, I've never seen the movie.

Tracy - No, what would be seriously creepy is if I was also in a speedo...but maybe I am! hahaha

Re: Keep The ‘Hawk or Cut the Hawk?

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:24:20 -0000

hahaha...I get it now (a bit slow today in my movie recall). http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3559300608/tt0075314

The sad thing is that I have sunglasses very similar to those.

Re: Keep The ‘Hawk or Cut the Hawk?

Jeromy — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:42:19 -0000

hahaha...see updated photo above. I think I just found my Halloween costume for next year.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage, Prop 8, and Jesus’ Words

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:14 -0000

Cara, you've asked some really important questions, questions I believe every person should wrestle with. Thanks for sharing your heart.

Re: When a Building Becomes an Injustice

Jeromy — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:24:58 -0000

You're welcome, I think. ;-)

Re: Questions Never to Ask

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:47:49 -0000

Here's what Dave had to say: "This may come across strong. If so, cool. Because I feel pretty strongly about it. I’m not voting. I don’t know either of these guys. Neither do... [Read more: http://monachusbellator.wordpress.com/2008/11/0... ]

Re: Questions Never to Ask

Jeromy — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:17:54 -0000

I just got back from voting (some people have to work) ;-) . There is something therapeutic putting pen to paper and casting your vote. Here is how I voted: Obama, No on 8, and Yes on 4 (requiring minors to get parental permission before having an abortion). Oh, and a bonus, I voted Yes on 2 (for the chickens and cows).

Re: Hope vs. Fear

Jeromy — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:53:21 -0000

They are. Here's hoping we will help spread the hope of peace through/in/because-of Jesus. Anger, fear, hate, doomsday never really inspire people towards love. Only love can. Thanks for being a good example of that...

Re: Hope vs. Fear

Jeromy — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:30:47 -0000

Thanks Samantha

Re: Weekend Video: Claymation Chess

Jeromy — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:47:11 -0000

I wonder how long too. I can say this though, they probably had a blast and lost all track of time...creativity tends to do that to artists. Glad I could bring a smile to your face for the weekend.

BY the way, congratulations on your book being published! How exciting!

Re: From Around the World

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:30:58 -0000

Beth, that's right, you're not too far from them. I went to a Taize service here in the states and loved it; very simple but you really get to meditate on the words. I would love to spend time in the actual community...but there is this small ocean to cross. ;-)

Re: Hope vs. Fear

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:29:41 -0000

Yea, it has been sad to see how many responses have been about fear and hate. I really hope that there comes a day when people no longer scare people into believing in God and begin loving people into believing God also loves them.

Hey, nice new blog title by the way. How is the new house treating you?

Re: My Dad Just Called…

Jeromy — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:43:56 -0000

A lot of brokenness. Not so much taking about Jesus as just trying to love him like Jesus does. My mom has played a big part in it too.

Re: My Dad Just Called…

Jeromy — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:41:59 -0000

Thanks All.... :-)

Re: The Broken Body of Christ (The Church?)

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:02:07 -0000

David, I loved your parable. Very poetic. I really think that if the church sought to loose itself for others that it would find itself.

Re: Questions

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:35:17 -0000

Adam ~ Beside all else, I love your thoughts about Jesus, his life, and how that effects yours and my life. Indeed, his light makes our light seem rather dark...but it also gives us hope.

Re: Questions

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:37:56 -0000

Jonathan ~ Your first paragraph embodies my own journey well. No party line heard, just your heart. I'm curious how your journey has been for you...freeing, frightening? How have others responded?

Re: Questions

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:34:33 -0000

Jonathan (non-Brink) ~ I see. My experince has been one of both freedom and fright, though now it is much less frustrating and frightening, and more freeing. I hope you find that community once more...

Re: Questions

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:34:58 -0000

Jonathan Brink ~ What do you mean?

Re: Just Curious…

Jeromy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:50:14 -0000

Cara ~ hahaha...I like it!

Re: Green is White and Red is Tan…

Jeromy — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:22:57 -0000

Thanks Amy. We have a Golden Retriever so I laughed at you viewing your dog differently now...so true.

Re: Idolatry

Jeromy — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:24:13 -0000

Mooney, by ministry I am assuming you mean the professional, paid clergy-type ministry?

Re: Idolatry

Jeromy — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:28:04 -0000

David, I don't like math either...and as a pastor I had to come to a place where I didn't count or keep track of numbers.

For your "one more for No 2": you mentioned Jesus, what do you mean?

Re: Idolatry

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:01:13 -0000

No worries, David...feel free to speak your mind. No rope, and yes, I'll still read your blog, but less frequently now ;-)

I too feel we have embraced the divine Jesus at the expense of the human, feet on the soil Jesus. He was both the Son of Man (fullness of man) and the Son of God (fullness of God). How? Hell, how should I know...I'll ask him after I die. That is, to me, part of the tension and human-understanding-dilemma of Jesus' nature. Part of what excites me about the changes crashing into Christendom is the embrace of the incarnate Jesus...the God who came, not to simply die, but to live amongst us and say, "Now follow me and my way of living!"

So when you say we've made an Idol of Jesus you are saying we have focused too much on the holy, pristine, divine, heavenly Jesus and lost his tension, humanity, complexity? Am I understanding you correctly?

Re: Idolatry

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:15:38 -0000

My two cents (partly) would be:
1. America itself
2. Christianity itself

Re: Green is White and Red is Tan…

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:16:44 -0000

Thanks Mooney.

Re: From Around the World

Jeromy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:41:22 -0000

Yea, Chris, my pleasure. I thougt it was great what you were doing up north in Canada for Uganda. The back story you just shared makes it even better. How long ago did you go? How many churches compose the consortium?

Re: Idolatry

Jeromy — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:52:54 -0000

Chad, #3? Which one is that?

Oops, changed your title. Sorry man.

I'll swing on by and share my thoughts tonight...Caleb and I have a Sac State football game to go to. Fun stuff.

Re: Really!? You Need an Assault Weapon?

Jeromy — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:45:46 -0000

Where did you get the info on Obama's Military/Army program? I can honestly say I have not heard or seen that. I agree, sadly there is a lot of fear out there.

Re: Really!? You Need an Assault Weapon?

Jeromy — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:53:54 -0000

Chad ~ Yea, it would be similar to saying that John McCain would have drummed up skin-heads and the KKK to take away the liberties of those who don't deserve them. Either way is nonsense and sad.

Re: Really!? You Need an Assault Weapon?

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:33:42 -0000

The point was not about semi- or fully-automatic fire rates, or grenade launchers; it was about "trying to justify it under the banner of self-defense." I get responsible gun ownership. The self-defense mantra just struck me as an odd one. This is actually a more sarcastic, over-the-top tongue-in-cheek post exaggerated to also try to make a point about followers of Jesus and their/my role in all of this. Feel free to disagree...this is my take.

Re: Thanks Alan — Scripture As We Live It

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:35:48 -0000

I would say some are and some are not. I see the same in me, sometimes I am and other times not at all.

Re: Really!? You Need an Assault Weapon?

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:40:40 -0000

Your interpretation was this was an argument.

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:24:49 -0000

Chad ~ Thanks. My wife and I were talking one night when it hit me.

Amy ~ Yea, that is a tremendous video clip and is worth the time. Glad you enjoyed it!

Adam ~ Thanks for the link. I also like what you had to say over at Ramblings.

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:21:59 -0000

I know you do Sampson. I usually try really hard to not write posts with any one particular person in mind, but in this one case I made an exception. I was dreadfully thinking of you when I wrote this. ;-)

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:43:28 -0000

PB ~ I'm sure we could have a discussion about how we differ on a number of things theologically (dualism, salvation, eternity, etc) but I'm sure I can safely say we will diifer substantially in a lot of those areas, which I'm OK with. You can read my past posts to understand more about where I come from...

But I agree, by providing real living water to people who are dying without it, it will open the door and relationship for thier Father's love to be known to them. Gospel or no gospel, we are still mandated all through out scripture to love and care for those who are unjustly treated — especially by us who are so rich. This is very near to God's heart and even a glancing read of scripture makes this clear.

In future years our hope is to be able to be there with them as the water is being dug so we can celebrate and show them the love of their Father in person and relationship. For now, this is what we are able to do.

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:53:28 -0000

No worries Chad. All are welcome. Yea, let me know how your talk goes tonight. Very cool...

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:15:19 -0000

PB ~ By the way, you were making an awfully big assumption about a subject that wasn't even mentioned in the post. It was a post about three rich American families cutting back on their materialism so they can help provide water to people who do not have water. That's it.

You are welcome to comment here about whatever you'd like, even about things certain posts do not mention. But if you do——and especially if you pose questions!——I just ask that you have the courtesy to not simply drop a comment and run, but engage the people who are addressing the very questions you posed.

Re: Vacation

Jeromy — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:10:35 -0000

Thanks Trace...

Re: Here, Jesus, Take My Shoes

Jeromy — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:05:47 -0000

John, Tracy is my personal secretary when I am on vacation. She does an excellent job for very little pay ;-) Thank you, by the way.

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:32:12 -0000

BOC, not sure what America's abortion policies have to do with three families deciding to spend less on themselves to provide water for those who need it, but thanks for swinging by and commenting. By the way, do you really think that Jesus' words were meant to give us permission to not care for the poor?

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:33:43 -0000

Do you know where I can find a copy of his essay?

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:42:02 -0000

Derek, I agree wholeheartedly. People deserve love, care and compassion simply because they are human, having dignity, worth, are God's creation and created in God's image. If we see a neighbor in need and do not care for him, we are not following Jesus nor his ways.

Re: One Line: Loving as the World Does?

Jeromy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:46:49 -0000

It does. Jesus' example and call to love forces us to go beyond all labels and borders. I wrote a post that really expresses how I feel: …And So Many More Labels!

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:33:29 -0000

Thanks Tracy...it is indeed; so much so it might make us consider moving out to Vermont.

Re: Tomorrow is Blog Comment Day…

Jeromy — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:01:19 -0000

Hahaha...they just might do that.

Re: Tomorrow is Blog Comment Day…

Jeromy — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:42:57 -0000

Matt, thanks for commenting with your comment about Blog Comment Day. I look forward to reading tomorrow's anti-comment from you... ;-)

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:21:26 -0000

John (pastorboy), you mentioned above (#22) that we, as humans, only deserve death and hell. Fortunately God thought and thinks otherwise--thus his son and his grace. God felt we deserved himself and his love. Therefore I too will think otherwise. I too once held a rather negative view of all-things-human, but no longer. This is partly why our family is making the Christmas decision we have made.

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:23:11 -0000

I feel like I should order up a round of brewskies for you two...mind if I join you? Chad, I suppose this can count as 1/5 of your comments today.

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:24:35 -0000

Tracy, 90 inches in one year? I am not man enough for that. I grew up living in the snow. Now I know where it is when I want to visit it ;-)

Re: What if There Were Only Seven?

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:30:14 -0000

Kathy ~ thanks, I too love hearing what God is doing in the midst of your gatherings.

Alan ~ Hmmm, very nice. Yea, lastnight for us was a very informal gathering around a meal and it turned into something of the divine. I love it when God shows up when least expected. Glad to hear you experienced something of the same last weekend.

Re: Our Little Conspiracy

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:54:19 -0000

John, I too agree that in my heart I do not feel I deserve anything, but God felt I deserved a whole lot of grace and love, hence God's work of restoration and reconciliation. (I still feel so undeserving, but I believe by faith that, somehow, someway, I am because God thought I was).

It is funny you mention Romans 5. I think this is a perfect example of how multiple people can view and interpret the same verse very differently. Again, not to rehash theology here, but you and some others see it as God "making a way" for reconciliation, I and some others see it as God reconciling. "while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son"..."we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." But again, my point is not to discuss the many different views of atonement or limited vs. universal reconciliation, but to point out how one person sees one thing in a verse and another person see another thing -- same words, same spirit in us, different interpretation. The cool thing is that we can walk as brothers in Christ and seek to love and share the Good news of God's grace.

Re: What if There Were Only Seven?

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:15:14 -0000

Julie ~ Very true, though I have also seen some powerful musical/worship times with smaller numbers, though much more toned down.

Mike ~ Well, there you have it...I guess seven is the magic number. Perhaps we need to start a Church-of-Seven movement! ;-)

Re: What if There Were Only Seven?

Jeromy — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:58:35 -0000

Matt, thanks for [not] commenting. Conformist!