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Veena
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2 years ago
in Women making hard choices on Almost As Good As Chocolate
Shripriya,
Ok, so I am jobless today :)
Of course blaming society is a cop-out, more so for those of us who can afford to tell society to go to hell. And I should have explained instead of being dense and mentioning offhand that "the man in the house and I being part of it" that yes, by society, I mean the subtle influences over time that make us the people we are, and not someone (in total saas-bahu serial style!) raising eyebrows at the mess that is the house. So I agree there. Totally. But the point remains that when someone makes these (self-imposed) choices(the key here is that these are real choices), it cannot be a gender issue. As I said, I understand your choices and they are hard choices to make; I just do not think your choices are harder because you are a woman. If they are, its only because you give in to conditioning (if you want to put it that way).
And ya ya, R is super supportive. I agree, okay? :) He brings in money if nothing else, doesn't he? Can't say that much for the person in my flat.
Ok, so I am jobless today :)
Of course blaming society is a cop-out, more so for those of us who can afford to tell society to go to hell. And I should have explained instead of being dense and mentioning offhand that "the man in the house and I being part of it" that yes, by society, I mean the subtle influences over time that make us the people we are, and not someone (in total saas-bahu serial style!) raising eyebrows at the mess that is the house. So I agree there. Totally. But the point remains that when someone makes these (self-imposed) choices(the key here is that these are real choices), it cannot be a gender issue. As I said, I understand your choices and they are hard choices to make; I just do not think your choices are harder because you are a woman. If they are, its only because you give in to conditioning (if you want to put it that way).
And ya ya, R is super supportive. I agree, okay? :) He brings in money if nothing else, doesn't he? Can't say that much for the person in my flat.
2 years ago
in Women making hard choices on Almost As Good As Chocolate
Shripriya,
Thanks for your reply. And since you love the discussion, hope you won't mind me taking more of your comment space. :)
1) Yes. But why is "being a good wife" more difficult that "being a good husband"? If they were the same, then obviously, as per your post, it wouldn't be more difficult for the woman than it is for the man to have it all, right?
2) No, I actually did not take it literally. I just don't understand why the house would fall apart if the woman wasn't running around to make sure it didn't. Or what is wrong with the house not being so perfect because both people are busy doing other things that obviously enjoy.
So anyway, I see your point about constraints and expectations being self-imposed, and the choices you have to make personally. But what I find problematic really is tying your personal choices to women in general having to make harder choices.
If we impose all these constraints (I will make sure the house is in order, I will do the groceries, I will cook, I will be the primary care giver etc.) on ourselves, then seriously we have no business complaining that it is harder for us women. I mean, who is making it harder? It is one thing to say that society(the man in the house and I being part of it) expects women to do all these things and so given that we have to do it, it is harder for us (I pretty much am with all the womens' groups on this one) but it is something else altogether to say that I, who actually has a choice in this matter, choose to do these things myself and so it is difficult for me. In the second case, it is no longer a gender issue, it is an individual problem.
Of course, there's this whole, big issue of things at work should be flexible for whoever the primary care giver person is (and workplace discrimination in general) but thats a totally different issue from the one here, so won't go into that.
Thanks for your reply. And since you love the discussion, hope you won't mind me taking more of your comment space. :)
1) Yes. But why is "being a good wife" more difficult that "being a good husband"? If they were the same, then obviously, as per your post, it wouldn't be more difficult for the woman than it is for the man to have it all, right?
2) No, I actually did not take it literally. I just don't understand why the house would fall apart if the woman wasn't running around to make sure it didn't. Or what is wrong with the house not being so perfect because both people are busy doing other things that obviously enjoy.
So anyway, I see your point about constraints and expectations being self-imposed, and the choices you have to make personally. But what I find problematic really is tying your personal choices to women in general having to make harder choices.
If we impose all these constraints (I will make sure the house is in order, I will do the groceries, I will cook, I will be the primary care giver etc.) on ourselves, then seriously we have no business complaining that it is harder for us women. I mean, who is making it harder? It is one thing to say that society(the man in the house and I being part of it) expects women to do all these things and so given that we have to do it, it is harder for us (I pretty much am with all the womens' groups on this one) but it is something else altogether to say that I, who actually has a choice in this matter, choose to do these things myself and so it is difficult for me. In the second case, it is no longer a gender issue, it is an individual problem.
Of course, there's this whole, big issue of things at work should be flexible for whoever the primary care giver person is (and workplace discrimination in general) but thats a totally different issue from the one here, so won't go into that.
2 years ago
in Women making hard choices on Almost As Good As Chocolate
Totally understand the part about investing in a relationship, living in the same coast etc. but here are a couple of things I don't get:
1) What exactly is "being a good wife"?
2) And making sure there's food in the fridge? And why is that one person's responsibility alone? And more importantly, why can't I eat cereal if I am not single?
Yes, it is hard to have it all. For anyone. But if things at work are more or less the same for men and women and its the outside responsibilities that make it harder for the women, then IF the spouse is "supremely supportive", its not any more harder for the woman that it is for the man right? Or am I missing something?
1) What exactly is "being a good wife"?
2) And making sure there's food in the fridge? And why is that one person's responsibility alone? And more importantly, why can't I eat cereal if I am not single?
Yes, it is hard to have it all. For anyone. But if things at work are more or less the same for men and women and its the outside responsibilities that make it harder for the women, then IF the spouse is "supremely supportive", its not any more harder for the woman that it is for the man right? Or am I missing something?
