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Re: Conservatives Laugh Off Gingrich Presidential Dreams

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:02:30 -0000

Newt and Sarah each give new meaning to the old saw about being a legend in their own minds.

Somebody brew them some coffee and let's hope they wake up and smell it.

Re: Special Operations Chiefs Quietly Sway Afghanistan Policy

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:49:36 -0000

Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan...

The British tried, the French tried in Viet Nam, the Soviets tried...

But WE are different. WE are the premier military power in the world. BUT is it military power that is really what is needed???

WE can win, we can do it, but we haven't. WE need more troops. WE haven't even after 8 years decided how to do it, counter terrorism or counter insurgency, troops or robot planes, mission creep, internal politics, corruption and graft. US mercenaries, US military industrial war industry is certainly winning. Anyone else???

Osama who??? Democracy for ....? Allied with corrupt politicians....and their brothers....? Dope growth, money, products...?

US cost in lives for...??? US cost in dollars...?

New Generals, new strategy, new methods, more men, more deaths, more money, more men, more deaths, more money.

Real progress??? Any progress???

More promises about future successes.... Defined by ...?

Maybe if they have any oil it will pay for the costs...

Give me a break. I hope we are not killing our youth without a plan, method, route to success, good planning, good equipment, realistic manpower rotation.
Real quality care for our veterans...

AND a realistic reason. Certainly we are not going to wipe out the terrorists. They don't need a particular country. They can pack up and move on. They can start over anywhere there is poverty, hunger, corruption, medical needs, where the industrial revolution has bypassed the people, and where there is no clean water.

One can't help wonder if the LONG term strategy of the terrorists is to exhaust the US treasury and wear down the military in country after country.

Perhaps that is THE factor that is the defining time of the war on terror. Perhaps we are playing right into their strategy by continually increasing the troops and spending of our treasure???

Your think???

Re: Paralell Justice System Could Become Obama Legacy

Hawaiianstyle — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:04:58 -0000

Change you don't want to believe in, and can't.

Re: Paralell Justice System Could Become Obama Legacy

Hawaiianstyle — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:01:47 -0000

Don't call this a parallel "Justice system".

This is a kangaroo court with one purpose to deny justice to those that our democracy, or nation of law, our nation where no man is above the law, is afraid to apply a true justice system to them.

It has to show the world that we don't believe in our justice system.

This "parallel 'Justice' system" has for its symbol a statue of justice with one thumb on the scales and no blindfold.

It is a blight on American Justice.

Re: House Bill Allows Coerced Testimony and Hearsay in Military Commissions

Hawaiianstyle — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:23:34 -0000

They should have titled the Bill the Star Chamber Bill.

This is more legislation driven by political considerations than by national security.

Such actions make me wonder about our Congress. At what point do they say to the special interests, or the opposing party, or the lobbyists this tips the scale too far and I must vote against it. I wonder if every vote on every subject has to go through such a political weighing scale?

Government of the people, by the people, for the ???

I guess Bribeocracy which seems to be the natural evolution of Big Dollar Capitalist Democracy works after a fashion. One wonders though what is the end result in the long term?

Probably national demise, loss of credibility, loss of the moral high ground in an increasingly smaller world?

You tell me.

Re: Paralell Justice System Could Become Obama Legacy

Hawaiianstyle — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:12:10 -0000

If you admit you need military commissions what you are really saying is our civilian justice system doesn't work. If that is true every convicted person must need a new trial??? No, of course not.

What Obama is doing is listening to the military and the intelligence communities way too much. He is afraid of the "consequences" they have convinced him will happen if he doesn't do it their way.

This is a Constitutional Scholar playing politics. He will leave a Presidential legacy of skewed justice. Justice that is manufactured to do a particular purpose and to address a particular class of people. All of which is anathema to real justice.

Too bad. He could have been a great President. This will paint him as another politician.

Re: Paralell Justice System Could Become Obama Legacy

Hawaiianstyle — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:44:51 -0000

Even if you trust Obama to use the commissions "sparingly" what about the future Presidents?

Obama is going to be remembered as the President that created permanent Military Commissions and a "Justice" system that degraded the justice system to expediently convict "terrorists" that he was politically afraid to give inalienable rights to. What a shame.

Its hard to hold to the "lives, fortunes and sacred honor" when someone is going to yell at you for political advantage, crying that you are endangering the country. It takes uncommon courage. It takes faith in the principles that the Founding Fathers provided for us. It takes the courage to be willing to lose your political position in order to keep Democracy and Justice, where no man is above the law, and all men are entitled to their day in court.

Re: Lieberman Threatens to Filibuster Dems’ Health Bill

Hawaiianstyle — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:21:41 -0000

If you bring a snake into your home, how can you be surprised when it bites you?

Re: CIA Reports Suggest Broad Probe of Interrogation Policy Needed

Hawaiianstyle — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:30:29 -0000

The idea that the CIA's torture practice followed or was no more dangerous than the SERE's procedures misses the point.

It should be noted that the CIA's use of these practices puts the US on a par with the countries that we claim are "third world" terrorist countries with barbarous practices.

Further it puts our troops and mercenaries in a position of jeopardy by allowing those countries and organizations to rationalize to the world that their treatment of our men is no different than our treatment of theirs.

Finally the argument should be settled by simply pointing out that aside from being nonproductive as useful intelligence it is inhuman, cruel and barbaric.

Re: Obama on Torture

Hawaiianstyle — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:20:42 -0000

Your exercise in intellectual minimalization is done from a comfortable safe armchair and computer keyboard.

I can't see you would maintaining these stupid if you were strapped to a waterboard.

Re: Obama on Torture

Hawaiianstyle — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:10:41 -0000

Your exercise in intellectual minimalization is done from a comfortable safe armchair.

I can't see you maintaining these arguments if you were strapped to a waterboard.

Re: U.S. Relies on Tortured Evidence in Habeas Case

Hawaiianstyle — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:51:07 -0000

Lets see...

We don't torture anymore because its wrong, inhuman, against the law and does not give reliable intel.

We are going to prosecute a boy using information gained by torture looking toward permanent detention (prison).

Whats wrong with this picture? The boy must be an Uhrigur??? You know did nothing wrong, but hold him anyway. Maybe the boy is a high Al Qaeda leader. He has been in prison since he was seven.

This action will certainly make us more safe. As soon as the boy is "officially sentenced" (obviously he will be found guilty in the kangaroo court using illegal evidence) THE WHOLE OF THE AL QAEDA WORLD WILL POINT TO HIS PERMANENT DETENTION AND SAY JOIN US AND FIGHT THE GREAT SATAN.

It makes me wonder if we want to keep Al Qaeda angry so we can continue to fund the war industry.

How else do you explain using torture evidence to prosecute a now young man for alleged acts when he was seven. We are going to use a document that was verified by someone's (unknown) thumb print. We are going to ignore the 14 page document that his original military prosecutor has written urging his acquittal due to false and irrelevant and or illegal evidence.

Is this the test case for permanent detention? Is this the test case for the kangaroo justice you get in a kangaroo court? Is this the court in which Obama has said he is going to agument the rules of evidence to provide a little more justice? A little more justice???!!!

Come on America. What we need is a Constitutional Scholar in the White House that not only knows the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but has faith in them, holds them sacred, and is not afraid that they will not serve us in terrorist times. We need a leader that tells the American people that we are a nation of laws, where the justice system is robust enough to try new terrorists of foreign origin as we did the last 100 plus terrorists.

And, by the way if we prosecuted successfully over 100 terrorists and imprisoned them successfully in the past what has changed now that we can't do it again in a REAL Federal Court? Could it be politics has changed? Could it be that now Republicans are scaring the public so we have to provide Kangaroo courts instead of Justice as usual. That does not say much for the other "leaders" of our country. You know the ones that should be saying to the republican MINORITY stop practicing politics by fear. Just because you learned how effective such tactics are during the Bush administration, stop it.

This proposed prosecution is disgusting. It is an action of a third world dictatorship. Russia in the cold war had a great sounding Constitution but tried and sent men to gulags using kangaroo courts. We could ask them for advice on how to do it if we need to...

Auwe, Auwe.

Re: Obama Task Force on Torture Considers CIA-FBI Interrogations Teams

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:37:35 -0000

What happens when a mass murdering psychopath is brought to trial and the state has compromised the case by either omission or commission of some legal requirement, e.g. reading of Miranda rights, etc?

If the state can show that the problem did not compromise justice in any relevant way sometimes the prosecution will be allowed by the court to proceed. However, if this cannot be shown the murderer may have his/her case dismissed by the court. Regardless of the danger to society he/she will be freed!!!

Why is this different from some murdering terrorist who is brought before the court? Both are killers. Both are dangers to society. One may be worse than the other, and I am not sure that the terrorist is the worst, but as distasteful as it is both are entitled to Justice. Both are entitled to a fair trial.

What's the point of a Kangaroo court with gerrymandered rules of evidence stacked against the defendant, with rules of evidence altered to allow unacceptable evidence to be admitted?

If we are going to fix the system to generate a definite outcome why bother? Lets just bring the defendant before a tribunal, ask his name and sentence him to life without parole, and then take the heat from the ACLU and the world as a two faced hypocritical dictatorial nation and be done.

What's the point of a charade? What's the point of fig leaf justice? It just makes our appearance to the world and our actions worse. It does more damage to our (my) reputation as Americans.

The land of the free and the home of the brave, where all men are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Where all men are subject to the rule of law. Where as a nation of law we follow not only our law, but that created by us and adopted in international conventions.

Where we as a nation and our leaders decry the brutality, torture and imprisonment of Iran's ruling clerics. Where we decry the "rebels" loss of their rights, freedoms, and justice.

And (shamefully) do it ourselves in our gulags around the world and in Guantanamo. We do it ourselves when we engage in creating "other justice systems" with "other justice/evidence rules."

Come on America, we are better than that. Remember who has made and is making you afraid. Originally it was the terrorist, now it is the politicians that want us afraid so they can get or accommodate whatever political influence group that is paying them. Our politicians shamefully play on our unspecified fears to gain power when playing their selfish political games.

How did we arrive at a place where our politicians have gone from reassuring the country that we will prevail, to be afraid and if you don't do all these illegal things like torture you will be attacked and maybe killed? How did we as a people accept this change?

And then following this change agree to compromise our National Principles. How did we arrive at the place where we agree to kangaroo courts, kangaroo justice, torture, rendition, domestic spying, and all the other Constitutional and Bill of Rights abuses.

How did we arrive at a place where our President publicly (by saying he wants to look forward not backwards) declare that he will not follow the law of the Country? How did we arrive at a place where we as citizens are not shocked and outraged at such an obvious violation of the law?

How did we arrive at a place where the highest law enforcement officer in the country continually neglects to enforce the law by ignoring violations of ours and international laws on torture, and our obligations to investigate it?

???

Re: U.S. Guns Fueling Mexican Drug Violence

Hawaiianstyle — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:32:12 -0000

Wow, surprise, surprise.

Its astounding that the largest arms manufacturer in the world, the country that supplies the most arms around the world, the country that makes the most profits from selling arms, is selling guns that get to drug dealers!!!

Re: Obama’s Detention Dilemma

Hawaiianstyle — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:19:55 -0000

Its nice that we are at least open and up front in the world that we have been and want to continue our path to becoming the worlds biggest third world dictatorship.

It would be dishonest and perhaps even immoral for us the engage in preventive detention, preemptive war, illegal war (aggression), illegal domestic spying, torture, rendition, imprisonment by fiat of the government and all the other abuses of the Constitution and Bill of Rights without saying we are going to do it.

After all is not Transparency in Government a hallmark of the Obama governance?

When you look at all the unAmerican changes our politicians have done to keep us safe, and to pursue the "War" on terror, it's hard not to see how Osama did not win.

Auwe, Auwe.

Re: Report Details Origins of Bush-Era Interrogation Policies

Hawaiianstyle — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:24:09 -0000

We are a nation of laws. Not.

We designed and signed the Geneva Conventions which include the prohibition on torture and the mandatory investigation and prosecution of those that do. We have tortured and we have not followed the international law, our domestic law and our moral law, law that we agreed to follow.

No man is above the law. Not.

We have the President trying to buy the cooperation of the CIA by saying that "I was just following orders", is a defense to breaking the law. President Obama (!) is saying this is sufficient to protect the CIA folks that tortured. This was not a legal defense to "foreigners when they tried to use it" after WWII, and it is not now. And, unless the President wants to be the first President in history that pardons torturers he has no say in who and who will not be investigated and prosecuted, except from the Bully Pulpit.

We have the Attorney General that says he follows the law, but so far he has not with respect to torture. Both men have said they want to rehabilitate the Justice Department from the political abuses that occurred there in the past. The only reasons not to investigate, prosecute and punish those that tortured ARE POLITICAL!!! So...

We have politicians that would rather try to defend a political party than seek the truth, do their oversight job or defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

We have tortured; unreasonably tortured, one man by waterboarding him 183 times in ONE MONTH.
We spy unconstitutionally on our own citizens. We allow the past and present President to proclaim the right of domestic spying. We allowed the past President the "authority" to name a US citizen an enemy combatant and then imprison him without the right to a lawyer, habeas corpus, or a trial by his peers. A US CITIZEN!!! We have the military North Com building and planning and training how to use troops on domestic soil for civilian unrest. We have illegally rendered, a fancy word for KIDNAPPING, people to other prisons so they can be tortured out of the US. We maintain a prison at Bagram with 600 POWs that by tradition will not be tried until the "WAR" is over, but admit that we see an unending war. And the list goes on.

The horrible attack of 9/11 was cowardly, disasterous and devastating. In addition to the physical damage and the loss of life, it sucked the life out of our respect for the law. It has through our politicians damaged the Document that made us a great nation, the Constitution. It created damage and fear that took away our respect for human decency and law, and has forever changed our way of life.

If our politicians and agencies don't learn and recover from this disaster the United States will NEVER again be the respected country in the world where once, "no man is above the law; where all men are created equal; where there is liberty and justice for all." We desperately need leaders that can take us in the right direction and quickly. We can be "popular" in the world by giving money, food and good conversation, but it will never equal how we were trusted in the world because of our commitment to equality for all men, nor will we as a people be able to look to our flag quietly waving in the breeze and silently say, "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

To not act to restore the integrity, honor, and justice so essential and identified with this country is to betray all the heroic men and women that have fought and died in all the past wars for the United States. It belittles the ultimate sacrifice that so many patriotic Americans, and others who have courageously fought along side of us, made for freedom. It lessens the sacrifice that so many men and women made, and then ended up being buried in unmarked graves in foreign lands.

The LAST CHANCE for us to regain our status as the preeminent law abiding country in the world lies in the hands of Attorney General Holder. Will he investigate the torture problem? Will he appoint a special prosecutor? The longer this goes on the less I think so.

Attorney General Holder has in his power to prevent ever again such a disastrous blow to this country's world standing and reputation. By Investigating those that enabled, ordered and tortured he can ensure that no administration in the future will repeat the excesses and crimes of the Bush Administration. He has in his hands the opportunity to be a true American hero, one on the par nearly with the Founding Fathers. They in their genius created the Union and our Constitution, and he can courageously and singlehandedly, if he acts, restore the Union to it former position in the world.

Future generations must look at this generation and say they tortured, it was an excess, it was an aberration, and the folks that enabled, ordered and did it were punished for it.

Future generations must not look at this generation and say they did everything possible including inhumane torture and ignoring the Constitution to prevent another attack. Such a legacy would leave the United States and her future generations morally crippled and vulnerable to another similar shameful episode in our history.

In actuality I think future generations will look at the past administration and wonder how we as a people allowed so many abuses, so many infringements on our rights under the Constitution. They will look and wonder how we tortured people beyond torture, to find a fictitious connection between a dictator and terrorists. How we tortured human beings to try to justify our being a rogue nation and an aggressor in Iraq.

I hope they will not look at us and say how could a Great Nation become so bogged down that it lost its ability to see wrong from right, that it lost its ability to put the nation, her future and her people before self-interest politics.

Obama can be the greatest politician President in history, but he will never be a GREAT President until he faces the unavoidable need for him and his administration to tackle the unpopular but needed task of prosecuting those involved for our torturing of other humans.

Re: The More You’re Waterboarded, The Less like Torture It Is

Hawaiianstyle — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:23:45 -0000

Unbelievable. A revelation, astounding new information on waterboarding. Amazing, it becomes fun if you do it enough. I wonder why this was not known in the past 200 years. I guess those past torturers never learned this mind boggling truth.

183 times, they probably would have stopped seeing that they were no longer torturing him effectively, but were just following orders.

Look in the mirror some day if you can, sir and ask yourself where you lost your soul.

Re: Pressure Mounts for ‘Enhanced’ Interrogation Prosecutions

Hawaiianstyle — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:02:39 -0000

When do we get a special prosecutor? We certainly got one when the Repubs wanted to embarrass Clinton.

But now when the reputation of the US is at stake in the world we are stalling???

Spengler said civilization moves Westward. Boy it sure looks like we are slipping. A nation of laws???
A nation of politics is more like it.

We are a nation that tortures. My father would be so astounded and indignant he would not even be able to speak. He saw the two "great wars", and was a real patriot.

Do SOMETHING. HELP THE US REGAIN HER REPUTATION AND THE HELL WITH POLITICS.

Re: Key Player in ‘Enhanced’ Interrogations Still at CIA

Hawaiianstyle — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:58:50 -0000

How do you keep the people that advocated or did torture and say we will not torture anymore? How do you say those that tortured were just following orders, and that torturing is a crime and then not investigate who enabled or ordered someone to commit the crime?

How do you ensure that we will not someday again torture if you accept the I was following orders defense?

I think all the BS about the need, the quality of the results, the fact that we only tortured bad guys, I was told to do it and all the rest of the excuses is crap.

If I was in the CIA and did not torture I would be angry about the guilt by association.

Lets simply have a through investigation by a neutral investigator and put all this in the past.

Re: Specter Homeschooling

Hawaiianstyle — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:42:13 -0000

Way to go Arlen. Honor, Integrity and forthrightness above all else right? Except the unwritten law of Washington which is after, "politics."

Re: Controversy Grows Over Torture Prosecutions

Hawaiianstyle — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:38:37 -0000

The idea that investigating torture and prosecuting those that ordered it would have a "deeply chilling effect", blah blah blah. is nonsense.

First the OLC issued its torture opinions after being told what to say. That would create a huge chill on any reputable lawyer but not on a prostitute lawyer.

Second, where the advice and the action are blatantly legal why is chilling it bad?

Politicians feel they are free to weigh in on everything whether qualified, biased or just need to be in the national spotlight. The news media then gives big coverage to the comments with bigger coverage for the more outrageous comments.

If politicians are going to spout off, and if the media is going to comment then let them do some homework and tell the public what the law says, how or why it does not apply and then their opinion.

I'm sick of listening to all the reasons why we should torture, and no one seems to be saying its against International law, its against US law, and its against moral behavior. EVERYONE that seems to have expertise says it does not give reliable intel. Everyone except Cheney and his minions.

Re: Pirates

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:49:13 -0000

The pirate problem somehow does not seem that hard to solve.

First we establish and publish sea lanes through the area. They would be optional, but if you use them you would know that the military is nearby to help you. This also limits the area that the military must guard.

Second we post a military ship at the ends of the lanes and where commercial traffic would diverge from a sea lane.

Third the civilian ship when approaching the sea lane would stop and take on a squad of well armed military.

Fourth at the end of the sea lane the ship would off load the military to the stationed military ship.

Re: NSA Revelations Spark Movement to Restore FISA

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:41:02 -0000

The debate surrounding FISA in reality is one about how the government can pass laws that limit or take away our Constitutional rights, i.e., in simple words change the Constitution by Congressional act without the approval of the People or the States.

Who gave the congress or anyone else the right to change the Constitution by fiat or simple legislative act? National Security is truly a need in today's world, however so is following the law, and so far as I know changing the Constitution takes an Amendment.

The Constitution seems to have been relegated to some nether land status in America. We know it is the law. We know it is essential to our "Democracy". But somehow violating it seems to be an intellectual act, one of, if there is a compelling need, one of, "yeh, but that doesn't really effect me."

Perhaps we need to make another law. One that says If you violate the Constitution either overtly or covertly, if you violate it by mandate, fiat, unpublished executive orders or any other way, you are subject to prosecution. If you ignore it you lose. If you distort it you pay. If you subvert it you are liable for criminal prosecution. If you pass laws that conflict with or reduce its effectiveness you are guilty of a crime.

It seems that if we don't address this and keep on chipping away at the freedoms that are "protected" we will lose them.

If you think this is over the top, how many "legal" exceptions are there to the Search and seizure law? Who created these amendments to the Fourth Amendment? How can the Constitution be amended this way when it takes 2/3s of the states to ratify an amendment to the Constitution?

???

Re: NSA Revelations Spark Movement to Restore FISA

Hawaiianstyle — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:34:31 -0000

Re: Obama Open to Congressional Investigation of Torture Policies

Hawaiianstyle — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:19:45 -0000

First, if we are to be a credible "nation of laws" both in this country and the world, we have by signing the Geneva Conventions, and under our own law obligated ourselves to investigate and prosecute those that broke the law.

Second, who we prosecute and for what is under the jurisdiction of the Attorney General. The Presidents proclamations of who he is opposed to prosecuting is only valid if he pardons them. He has no other avenue of power except of course the bully pulpit.

Third, the Attorney General's job here is to decide if there is sufficient evidence that a crime has been committed, and then if he feels that extraneous forces would prejudice the investigation appoint a Special Prosecutor.

Fourth, while there is talk of Congress investigating, that should have no bearing on the Attorney General and how he performs his duty.

Fifth, It sounds like the lawyers that wrote the "legal" memos have a "legal liability" for the advice they gave. I am not sure lacking collusion with the memo recipient or extreme negligence how a lawyer is held legally liable for his advice.

Sixth, I hope that the idea that the defense of "my lawyer said it was OK" is not seriously valid. My lawyer said I have a valid claim to Fort Knox, but I hope he is wrong as I can't afford the property taxes.

Seventh, for the good of the nation, its reputation in the international world, its credibility with Americans, and to show we are truly a nation of law we need to follow the law. We need to investigate who did what; who authorized and promoted the illegal activity of torture. We need then to prosecute those that broke the law. This will go a long way to reclaiming our moral position in the world.

Eighth, In order to ensure that we as a nation will never fall into this "anything goes for National Security" trap again, this full investigation and prosecution is absolutely mandatory. With any thing less someday in the future after another crises some politician will stand and say, "this is national security, this is the exception that makes the rule, this act and those that perpetrated it must be caught by any means possible and brought to justice (even if brought by unjust means). Blah Blah Blah.

Ninth, Actually the question is simple. The Attorney General is charged with enforcing the law. The laws state torture is a crime. We know there are those that have tortured. The A.G.s job is to cause an investigation and punish those that are guilty.

Or he can ignore the law. Ignore the guilty acts. Ignore his sworn duty. And, become morally at least complicit with the past acts, and an enabler of the someday future acts. He can become a politician.