Disqus - Latest Comments for C___E

Re: Hillary Clinton. Secretary of State. Discuss

CE — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:46:21 -0000

That's interesting news, considering that in the primaries he seemed to think the entirety of her foreign policy experience was limited to having tea parties. I do wonder what changed his mind.

Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish

CE — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:25:26 -0000

Succinct indeed. I'll miss your posts.

Re: Great Expectations

CE — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:37:41 -0000

We're all tired and worn out and wanting something to hang on to. So maybe a little of that benefit of the doubt and patience can go both ways. I didn't see that extended to the people who expressed doubts early on, pretty politely IMO, before julesrules expressed complete disbelief that I couldn't be happy with incremental change and before Melissa expressed her frustration.

Yes. I'm not understanding what's happening here at all. The post specifically says that optimism is not about giving passes or holding back on criticism, so I'm afraid I must be missing something about why it's off topic and wrong to express criticism.

People have a lot of responses to this election for a lot of reasons, ranging from unadulterated joy and hope to unadulterated anger and pain. Many of us are somewhere in between, or maybe dealing with both ranges of that spectrum at once. None of those reactions are invalid, and I'm really confused about how and why some of them suddenly seem to be.

Those of us who are not, for whatever reason, as sanguine about this election and what it means have, as far as I can tell, been vocal about our doubts and skepticism in the past. It never seemed to be a problem, as long as things were respectful, and no one seemed to expect silence on the matter. I mean no disrespect by this, but I find it disconcerting and confusing that this seems to have changed, and I think that may be at the root of some of the conflict on this thread.

I don't want to cause any more distress around here, but I have never felt so invalidated, so out of step, or so unwelcome at Shakesville. I have a lot of respect for Liss and what she does, so I think, like RKMK, I'll stay for the most part out of comments until I seem to be able to make the sorts of contributions that work for Melissa and the community at large. I hope that day will come soon.

Re: Stephen Lewis on violence against women

CE — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:31:03 -0000

This is immensely powerful. I have so rarely seen this horror properly contextualized, and especially by men, especially at a major conference - it almost makes me feel hopeful, even as the monstrosities continue.

Thank you for posting this, zuzu. I'll be thinking about it all day.

Re: Great Expectations

CE — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:34:00 -0000

I agree. Telling people to "get over it" when "it" is a legitimate complaint which needs to be faced squarely and addressed before true progress can be made is singularly unhelpful.

I also agree, and I think I'll go back to lurking now. This thread is disturbing on at least half a dozen levels.

Re: Coming Out -- Again.

CE — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:33:37 -0000

Congratulations, PD! And I will echo what everyone else has said and thank you for trusting us.

I'm afraid I've got no woo-woo in me at all, but I've always sort of wished I did. (((PD/Carol)))

Re: Double-yew-tee-eff?

CE — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:41:02 -0000

Thanks, JMonkey. I really appreciate that. :)

Re: Double-yew-tee-eff?

CE — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:38:11 -0000

Huh. I don't even know what to say about that. I recognize it as English, but I have no idea what it's trying to communicate.

Re: Rahm Emanuel Chosen as Obama's Chief of Staff

CE — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:29:08 -0000

women are essentially asked to smile and concede for the greater good to all or even for the greater good to women

Yes. And that's the root of my problem with - well, all of this, really.

Re: The Palin Blaming Begins

CE — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:11:56 -0000

RKMK, I never had a geography class either. Yes, that probably explains...quite a bit. ;)

I know it's not popular to say, but I think Palin is a political star in the making. And she was a net positive on the Republican ticket - which is why, I think, we got this meme about what a dumb bimbo hick she is. That doesn't make any of it true, whether it's coming from Republicans or from us.

Re: This.

CE — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:53:56 -0000

I'm completely unsurprised that people have either magically forgotten about Obama's endorsement of homophobia or are pretending they don't understand how people could vote for Obama and vote for Prop. 8, when the excuse for his campaigning with McClurkin was that he had to win over the homophobic vote.

I admit to being a little surprised to see that here, to be honest. It's not like all of this wasn't well-documented in real time.

Eh, actually, I'm not surprised. But I am incredibly disappointed.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:53:04 -0000

Paul, FTR, I think and have always thought that you're a great guy, and that was as classy an apology as I've seen.

I know a lot of people are feeling really raw right now - I'm one of them - and it has been a really tough week, fuck, two years. So.

And NobleExperiments, thank you for the apology as well. I think that generally, it's an unconscious thing that people do, and while I'd love to see everyone a little more aware of the implications, it doesn't make you or anyone else a bad person for fucking up. :)

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:12:56 -0000

I'm not terribly distressed by people being bugged by how other people pronounce things

It's not about being "bugged," though - that's one thing. This is something else: a sneering kind of snobbery designed to help certain people feel good about themselves for having the "right" accent while looking down on the hicks or hillbillies from "flyover country" (and unless you come from a very particular social set in New England, the entire country is "less than" in this respect). And a lot of people engaging in it don't actually realize that, or understand how closely tied it is to a classism in which no progressive should want to participate.

Anyway, I'm behind Rana 100 percent on this one.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:54:40 -0000

I know it has, Rana. It's been bothering me a lot, too, but I couldn't really find the right words for it until I read your post about it. I come from one of those many, many areas of the country where we don't talk "right" and have dealt with people making obnoxious assumptions about me based on where I'm from ever since I left. So it pushes my buttons, too.

(((hugs)))

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:44:35 -0000

Also, I'm going to second Rana on the objectionable mockery of other people's accents (and Rana, I'm glad you pointed it out, because I missed it). The regionalism of a lot of liberals, and the classism that's wrapped up in it, is not anything like progressive.

Or even decent, really. I would bet lots of Shakers have regional accents or mannerisms of one kind or another - it doesn't make someone stupid, and it certainly doesn't make it okay to mock them.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:16:03 -0000

InfamousQBert, you don't think there's any problem with referring to a woman (a live, human one) as a "psycho toy with a uterus"? I sure as hell do.

I really have a problem with referring to women as "uteruses" or "vaginas" in general. It's one thing is it's done sarcastically, but I have seen a lot of it that wasn't.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:08:38 -0000

Interesting, Astraea. I've also seen Jane Harman's name for national security posts; she would be a great choice. I guess we'll see.

I suspect, however, that there may end up being more Republicans than women.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:02:21 -0000

I'll lay a couple bucks on Michelle Obama.

Yeah. Right now Michelle Obama is a "good woman," 100 percent Patriarchy-Approved. But as soon as Obama hits trouble or she starts to do any of her own work, yeah, I think you're right.

And I'm still furious over what was done to Clinton and, yes, to Sarah Palin.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:52:54 -0000

I've only seen one woman in a long list of potentials.

But plenty of Republicans, I bet!

I have to agree with tinfoil hattie. Spudsy, you know ILU, but that was problematic for me too.

Re: The Whiffy GOP

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:45:21 -0000

It said "you betcha", winked at him, and then went and spent $150,000 on clothes.

FFS. I wonder who our next collective cultural target is going to be, now that we won't have Sarah Palin to spit on anymore. Who wants to take bets?

Re: This.

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:44:20 -0000

I wish this meme would die, honestly. As Astraea said in another thread, homophobia and support for Barack Obama are not and have never been mutually exclusive, so this hand-wringing about how anyone could possibly vote for EQUALITY!!11! and also for discrimination!! is completely unwarranted. He ran a campaign that was in part built on equality for some and not for others.

Some people have very narrow views of equality. We all watched while Obama's campaign exploited that fact. Let's please stop disappearing it: it happened, and it was real.

Re: Prop 8

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:35:37 -0000

I absolutely cannot stand being around people who aren't sympathetic.

Me neither. Working from home is the shit. At my old job, I knew a gay man who is pretty involved in gay activism, who was bizarrely gung-ho about Obama even while the McClurkin shit was going on. I still don't understand it.

I understand wanting to enjoy the positives of this election, but Obama support and homophobia are not incompatible, never have been, and I'm really confused by that comment in the post.

This. I'm seeing that sentiment all over the place, and honestly, it really offends me. It disappears a lot of things that happened as though they didn't exist or don't matter. But they did, and they do.

Re: Prop 8

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:20:01 -0000

It makes me ill to think that people in FL and CA could go to the polls to support Obama and vote for such discriminatory crap at the same time.

It makes me ill that discriminatory crap was part of Obama's campaign strategy, thereby making it eminently possible for people to support him while leaving treadmarks all over us. Let's please not forget the role of homobigotry in his campaign, and exactly how much his pretty words about "embracing our gay brothers and sisters" mean. In other words, jackshit.

none of my GO OBAMA! co-workers are getting it.

I'm going to make a wild guess that they're straight.

Re: Words of Hope From An Old Queer

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:56:59 -0000

Thanks for this, PD.

I wish I could feel hope about it, but all I have is furious anger and yet another sense of betrayal. Last night was not a good night for civil rights in quite a few states.

Re: Prop 8

CE — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:48:20 -0000

All right, I think I have to call it a night. It's almost 5 AM here. (How am I still awake?)

I have hope for a good result in California. Thank you to everyone who voted on this and worked on it.