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Common Sense
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8 months ago
in How Much Government Do We Need in Our Lives? on rise up Rochester
Round 2:
1) You present two arguments: compulsory education and freedom.
a) The educational system is not compulsory. You are free to home school. If you so choose, you are free to inject yourself with monkey semen as a method of education.
b) Freedom - I agree that there are freedoms. No real contentions here.
2) http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GoldStandard...
Again, this is how the gold standard worked. An arbitrary fixed conversion ratio was set. Don't believe me, read that. Don't believe that, you can make up your own history.
3) The government should be involved in services that can not provide economic profits fairly and/or for the general welfare of society. Hence, roads, fire departments, and snow plows. You can do all those privately if you choose, but it sure costs a lot more.
4) I quote from my dollar bill: "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE". No where does it say you HAVE to accept it. You can choose not to. Just like how there are places that won't take credit cards or checks.
5) I don't understand your comment, although I think you're making my point. What I care about is efficiency. The gov'ts running of many of these functions creates the greatest net effect with the least cost due to economies of scale. If you choose not to use the economies of scale, you will pay more. This of course, is your choice.
Finally, on your topic of liberty, let's not confuse the issue. The gov't has created an efficient method through which economic liberty can be achieved, but you choose not to. Well you can. The fact that others won't accept your form of currency is also THEIR choice.
1) You present two arguments: compulsory education and freedom.
a) The educational system is not compulsory. You are free to home school. If you so choose, you are free to inject yourself with monkey semen as a method of education.
b) Freedom - I agree that there are freedoms. No real contentions here.
2) http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GoldStandard...
Again, this is how the gold standard worked. An arbitrary fixed conversion ratio was set. Don't believe me, read that. Don't believe that, you can make up your own history.
3) The government should be involved in services that can not provide economic profits fairly and/or for the general welfare of society. Hence, roads, fire departments, and snow plows. You can do all those privately if you choose, but it sure costs a lot more.
4) I quote from my dollar bill: "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE". No where does it say you HAVE to accept it. You can choose not to. Just like how there are places that won't take credit cards or checks.
5) I don't understand your comment, although I think you're making my point. What I care about is efficiency. The gov'ts running of many of these functions creates the greatest net effect with the least cost due to economies of scale. If you choose not to use the economies of scale, you will pay more. This of course, is your choice.
Finally, on your topic of liberty, let's not confuse the issue. The gov't has created an efficient method through which economic liberty can be achieved, but you choose not to. Well you can. The fact that others won't accept your form of currency is also THEIR choice.
1 reply
8 months ago
in Take My Credit, Please! on rise up Rochester
Without a central bank, you would not have anything associated with a bank, since you would have no system in which to store and manage fed notes.
1 reply
sean
You don't seem to consider any alternatives with the usage of money. Currency is great to use but if it is monopolized by concentrated power then it is bad for the public. Currency is strong if the people can issue it and use it for their advantage as value. Also banks do not let people set their standards of how to use their money. If I can remember you are the same person to say that I am against investment. Absolutely not. I am against powers like central banks monopolizing the money supply and if you do not believe me just look at the dollar that you have now. Also look at www.federalreserve.gov. Look into fractional reserving. Money is a matter of ownership. If you do not own the money that you have because it is used as an interest bearing debt to a central bank then how can it be of value at all? This is the theme of the movie money as debt and of our founding fathers as well. Benjamin Franklin wanted America to be free of international banking control. If you own the money supply do you have to pay anyone for interest or debt? No!
8 months ago
in ‘Free’ Wi-Fi to Kill the Internet on rise up Rochester
Or you could just PAY for internet...
2 replies
Andrew S.
I do pay to use the internet, but we're going to be forced onto the 'free' government networks because of how expensive private internet service will become, especially for high-bandwidth users.
DAISY_YANG
Free speech may not be dead in America, but it sure is on riseupRochester.org. My comments on the board that is lamenting the death of free speech are being censored for being different than that of the moderator. I'm going to submit my thoughts on this subject (and on what is clearly a sham of a website in general) to the D&C, and get their opinion...
8 months ago
in Take My Credit, Please! on rise up Rochester
Yes, yes, down with the Fed. How dare you attempt to stabilize our financial system and smooth out business cycles. How dare you allow a banking system to exist and support the value of our currency.
Fed, you are so evil. I wish you would die. Then I wouldn't have any place to borrow money, or store my money, or even a place to get money. I would just produce goods, carry them in sacks, and barter them for food when I get hungry.
Oh Fed, has it come to this? Creating money to relieve reserve requirement to allow banks to continue daily operations? How dare you think of the common man and allow them to continue using their ATMs. How dare you allow people to continue accessing their checking and savings accounts. Why don't you close shop and wipe out everyone's bank accounts?
What bastards, those Feds.
Fed, you are so evil. I wish you would die. Then I wouldn't have any place to borrow money, or store my money, or even a place to get money. I would just produce goods, carry them in sacks, and barter them for food when I get hungry.
Oh Fed, has it come to this? Creating money to relieve reserve requirement to allow banks to continue daily operations? How dare you think of the common man and allow them to continue using their ATMs. How dare you allow people to continue accessing their checking and savings accounts. Why don't you close shop and wipe out everyone's bank accounts?
What bastards, those Feds.
2 replies
8 months ago
in Xerox to cut 3,000 jobs over next 6 months on rise up Rochester
Ironic that a man who is against using money accepts payment for his work in money. I think you should demand loaves of bread, potatoes and perhaps some company-issued clothing for your work.
1 reply
Andrew S.
I'm against using money? Common Sense, your name is fairly fashionable, but perhaps you should consider changing it to Straw Man.
8 months ago
in Do We Need More of Keynes Now? on rise up Rochester
Good god!
Will you understand that the reason for money is to allow a user to exchange their production for a future product?
Given a sustenance system, bartering is fine. But what if you can only make 10 loaves of bread a day, and a TV costs 10,000 fresh loaves? It would be IMPOSSIBLE to make enough fresh loaves.
However, if you can sell your bread every day and convert to a non-perishable product, then you could save and consume.
Honestly, do you contemplate your ideas of why we use money at all?
Will you understand that the reason for money is to allow a user to exchange their production for a future product?
Given a sustenance system, bartering is fine. But what if you can only make 10 loaves of bread a day, and a TV costs 10,000 fresh loaves? It would be IMPOSSIBLE to make enough fresh loaves.
However, if you can sell your bread every day and convert to a non-perishable product, then you could save and consume.
Honestly, do you contemplate your ideas of why we use money at all?
1 reply
Andrew S.
Where did anyone say that we shouldn't use money at all? Sound money is not the same as no money.
8 months ago
in A Monetary Reform Act We Can Agree With on rise up Rochester
Stop using central banks. I suggest hiding it in your mattress. Also, next time you use a credit card, don't. Instead, carry large bundles of cash with you at all times.
1 reply
Andrew S.
Actually, that's exactly the problem with central banking. I CAN'T store my money under my mattress, unless I want it continuously devalued. Do you even know what a central bank is? You can't 'use' a central bank in the same way that you use the bank on main street. The building where you have a checking account is NOT a central bank.
8 months ago
in A Monetary Reform Act We Can Agree With on rise up Rochester
I hope none of you ever need a loan...
... to buy a house, a car, finance an education...
Without fractional reserve banking, not only would loans be impossible (except via individual brokers), the amount of money used to create enough money for transactions would be horrendous.
... to buy a house, a car, finance an education...
Without fractional reserve banking, not only would loans be impossible (except via individual brokers), the amount of money used to create enough money for transactions would be horrendous.
1 reply
Andrew S.
Yes, fractional reserve banking has allowed us all to live beyond our means. When it all comes crashing down I guess we'll get to evaluate whether it was worth it.
8 months ago
in How Would Private Coinage Work? on rise up Rochester
Ridiculous.
The path of human progress made people realize that 100s of different methods of business transactions is not nearly as efficient as one single method of transaction.
Imagine, if you had to carry coinage of every different company to buy stuff.
Frankly, if you distrust government so much, I don't understand your faith in private dealers. A large enough private dealer could be a quasi-governmental entity. Why don't we just go back to bartering?
The path of human progress made people realize that 100s of different methods of business transactions is not nearly as efficient as one single method of transaction.
Imagine, if you had to carry coinage of every different company to buy stuff.
Frankly, if you distrust government so much, I don't understand your faith in private dealers. A large enough private dealer could be a quasi-governmental entity. Why don't we just go back to bartering?
2 replies
Andrew S.
I guess you didn't bother reading the article, as these issues were addressed above.
Ethan
I don't understand your faith in government. If you haven't figured out why governments should never be trusted (no government is not evil, it does have its purposes) perhaps this will help.
Ask yourself why a monopoly is a bad thing?
Ask yourself why a monopoly is a bad thing?
8 months ago
in How Much Government Do We Need in Our Lives? on rise up Rochester
I don't know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are.
Let's start with your brief answers:
1) A compulsory educational system ensures children learn scientific facts that have been tested and categorized. Once you have a basic knowledge, you can then branch out and do the "liberal" thing of pursuing your own education. To use the classic metaphor, when you don't know you're in a cave, you'll just be teaching yourself that your world is dark and damp.
2) A gold standard, or any other standard, is no less arbitrary than a note held by the faith of the backing entity. To create money, the ratio of $1 to some amount of gold was just adjusted to increase or decrease the money supply.
3) Non-profit governmental goods ensure we prevent agency-principal issues, such as when we entrust the fire department to prevent fires, but they instead set fires in order to be paid to quench them.
4) You are not forced to use US currency. You are in fact free to use any type of currency or trade good you wish to use. However, the most EFFICIENT system of transaction is based upon a common type of currency. I'm certain some amount of gold dust can buy you milk at any grocery store.
5) The US Postal System is a quasi-governmental entity, and you are free to not use it. However, if you enjoy cheap mailings, I would suggest using them.
The government's purpose, as defined by the Constitution, is to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.
When you can find a profitable way of doing all those things, please get back to me.
Let's start with your brief answers:
1) A compulsory educational system ensures children learn scientific facts that have been tested and categorized. Once you have a basic knowledge, you can then branch out and do the "liberal" thing of pursuing your own education. To use the classic metaphor, when you don't know you're in a cave, you'll just be teaching yourself that your world is dark and damp.
2) A gold standard, or any other standard, is no less arbitrary than a note held by the faith of the backing entity. To create money, the ratio of $1 to some amount of gold was just adjusted to increase or decrease the money supply.
3) Non-profit governmental goods ensure we prevent agency-principal issues, such as when we entrust the fire department to prevent fires, but they instead set fires in order to be paid to quench them.
4) You are not forced to use US currency. You are in fact free to use any type of currency or trade good you wish to use. However, the most EFFICIENT system of transaction is based upon a common type of currency. I'm certain some amount of gold dust can buy you milk at any grocery store.
5) The US Postal System is a quasi-governmental entity, and you are free to not use it. However, if you enjoy cheap mailings, I would suggest using them.
The government's purpose, as defined by the Constitution, is to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.
When you can find a profitable way of doing all those things, please get back to me.
1 reply
Andrew S.
Let's debunk your debunking:
1) How do you defend compulsory anything in a country that is supposed to be free? No, a compulsory educational system ensures that the youth learns what their government wants them to learn. Period.
2) Did you know the first economic treatise ever written viewed debasing the money as a mortal sin? What is the moral basis for changing the value of money? Gold isn't arbitrary because the money supply can't contract, nor can it be expanded too quickly.
3) Why not just have the government make everything? After all, the computer company could break your computer to sell you a new one.
4) You are forced to use it. That's why it's called legal tender. You have to accept dollars for payments of debts.
5) Sure, it's not free to use it, but it's also not free to not use it. How is that fair?
Liberty? I don't think you have the slightest idea what that means. You can't have personal liberty without economic liberty.
1) How do you defend compulsory anything in a country that is supposed to be free? No, a compulsory educational system ensures that the youth learns what their government wants them to learn. Period.
2) Did you know the first economic treatise ever written viewed debasing the money as a mortal sin? What is the moral basis for changing the value of money? Gold isn't arbitrary because the money supply can't contract, nor can it be expanded too quickly.
3) Why not just have the government make everything? After all, the computer company could break your computer to sell you a new one.
4) You are forced to use it. That's why it's called legal tender. You have to accept dollars for payments of debts.
5) Sure, it's not free to use it, but it's also not free to not use it. How is that fair?
Liberty? I don't think you have the slightest idea what that means. You can't have personal liberty without economic liberty.
The gold standard is simply setting a rate of convertibility to a paper money. Yes it is true that if a government wanted to steal from it's citizens it could change the ratio for redemption or debase the currency, and this is in fact what has been done in the United States. The underlying value of the gold, however, will not change, it is as near a constant as possible. The only thing that has changed is the value of the paper money. Thus the argument for a FIXED gold standard not corruptible by government fiat. They only thing that could change the value of money in a fixed gold standard would be the destruction or creation of gold. To create gold requires real work not a printing press, therefore gold itself represents physical labor. Money after all, in any form, is simply used for exchange. You are paid money in exchange for your work and that could be in almost any form. Gold is perfect for this since it is real and much smaller than say, a cow or a bushel of wheat. and it is easily used for exchange. And gold can not be arbitrarily created the way paper money is.
To comment on your view that the government is efficient, since when? They government is the most wasteful spender in the nation. The reason being, that those working within the government are not spending their own money and have no reason to use it in any semblance of an efficient manner.
To quote Milton Friedman, Nobel prize winning economist:
"The bureaucrats spend someone else's money on someone else. Only human kindness, not the much stronger and more dependable spur of self-interest, assures that they will spend the money in the way most beneficial to the recipients. Hence the wastefulness and ineffectiveness of the spending."
"Voluntary gifts aside, you can spend someone else's money only by taking it away as government does. The use of force is therefore at the very heart of the welfare state--a bad means that tends to corrupt the good ends. That is also the reason why the welfare state threatens our freedom so seriously."
May I suggest some reading for you, Milton and Rose Friedman's book Free to Choose. It is a comprehensive look at the role of government in our society, the problems with that role, and solutions to it.