Disqus - Latest Comments for Jack Turner

Re: Why do black people have to be creepy basement types on TV?

Jack Turner — Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:41:00 -0000

you are correct anonymous. thanks for contributing.
i just watched this week's show, and there's clearly more going on.

I still think it's creepy that the family stays in the basement, but there's clearly more to the story.

Re: Speaking of the Flav

Jack Turner — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:57:00 -0000

Age is definitely a factor. I wonder, though, on both ends.

How many young and open white people really get it. And how many young black people recognize the psychological harm they may be doing to themselves.

I agree, the truly old bigoted folks are a lost cause. Give them their Canadian drugs, and let them ride into the racist sunset.

Re: Speaking of the Flav

Jack Turner — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:19:00 -0000

sure thing. Jill mentioned it in her NiggaSpace post here

Re: "Kramer" Launches into Racial Tirade During Comedy Set

Jack Turner — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:19:00 -0000

I'm with you. Here's another article from the mainstream press about it. Some color commentary from Latino comedians but where are the black comics at? I disagree w George Lopez that this is about lack of experience as a standup comic though.

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=242527>1;=7703

Re: "Kramer" Launches into Racial Tirade During Comedy Set

Jack Turner — Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:38:00 -0000

Now THAT's what I'm talkin bout. A commenter who fact checks himself!! AAPP, you're the hotness. Thanks for the educational update.

Re: Tuskegee Airmen Finally Get Respect

Jack Turner — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:08:00 -0000

thanks for that thinkprogress link.

Rep Boner was killing me with his ignorance. Good lord.

Re: Black Bloggers Having an Impact

Jack Turner — Thu, 10 May 2007 18:21:00 -0000

this is a great comment. thanks. i agree 100 percent. we're working on pooling resources more and getting to the fundraising piece, FYI

thanks for being such an active member of our community, rikyrah

Re: A CBC Member Tries to Save the Earth from Extinction

Jack Turner — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:09:00 -0000

thanks for the post, Jill.

Alternet has a great story on the bee issue right here:

http://www.alternet.org/environment/53491/

There are a number of frightening threats to our highly industrialized, efficient, just-in-time society. Many of the things we treasure most are also our greatest vulnerabilities when we remove a single incredient: oil, fresh water and bees apparently.

some notable quotes from the AlterNet story:

"The honeybee is so important for pollination of hundreds of agricultural crops, because humans have made it so," Caron explained. "We destroyed the natural pollinators, plowed up the area they needed to live and continued to replace their habitats with strip malls and housing developments. So, farmers have come to rely on honeybees because of mushrooming human populations and our own destructive habits to the natural ecology."

And not just here, either: The disappearance is under way across the world. Regions of Iran are experiencing the same phenomenon, as are countries like Poland, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany and more every day, including Latin American and Asia. The breadth of the problem suggests that a major environmental balance could be to blame -- what else is new? -- yet no authority will sign off on the possibility and the specific causes still remain unknown.

Re: Check out the AfroSpear PageFlakes

Jack Turner — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:24:00 -0000

g-e-m2001 slight typo in your URL.

should be

http://bloggingwhilebrown.blogspot.com/

or try this direct link

Re: ObamaGirl Video — Harold Ford-style Fraud?

Jack Turner — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:06:00 -0000

Thanks for putting this up, Jill. The owners of this video are actually not that mysterious according to this ABC7 story out of Chicago:

========================

But before die-hard Democrats dare to drool -- Obama Girl isn't for real. She's a model. The brainchild of five Obama fans from Philly who hope its helps their candidate.

"The average person can have a huge impact on election beyond just every vote counts. The web changed everything and this is an example of that," said Ben Rellis, video creator.

These five friends say they have no affiliation with the Obama campaign. They spent a few thousand dollars of their own money to produce the video hoping, in part, to help one of their song writing careers.

=======================

We got an email tip from G McCaul pointing out the video and offering some views:

=============

Some black bloggers have been cheering this video. Do you know who is behind this site? This site and the song has been on all the major news outlets AND the Rush Limbaugh show. If I didn't know better, I would think he is being Harold Ford-ed. Something ain't right about this whole thing. It trivializes his campaign and turns him into an NSYNC/ Backstreet boys candidate . It makes him frivolous and plays on the old fears about black men and white women. I don't do politics on my blog, but I thought this was up y'alls alley. They're trying to turn him into the Justin Timberlake of politics. Doesn't this girl look just like Monica???

========================

The more I think about this video, the more disturbed I am. That's two disturbing videos this week (including Angelou's Hillary endorsement).

As McCaul says, this trivializes his campaign. I am not amused and find the video too trashy. Politics is increasingly a pop culture / celebrity game, but editing yourself into a photo of a topless Obama is tasteless in my view.

Then there are the racial undertones.

And there is Michelle Obama.

I hope this doesn't represent a new trend of multimedia remixing and (mis)representation.

On the other hand, I may start working on a video about "My Big Gay Crush on Giuliani."

Re: Report from the Ground in Harlem and NV; Obama Calls Bill Out

Jack Turner — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:37:00 -0000

@D what a great question. Basically, "why complain about vote bullying even if your candidate won?"

I cannot speak for all Obama supporters, but for THIS supporter it's important to call out injustice even (and especially) in the case of victory.

You call it out because it's WRONG, not just because you may have suffered from it.

An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

Re: Two Reports from the Ground in South Carolina

Jack Turner — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:31:00 -0000

@lkl

the following was emailed in by someone who had problems posting a comment but wanted to respond to your critique of edwards

-----

Jack & Jill,

Ikl (a blogger...subscriber?) made a snarky remark about Feingold and Edwards voting record, and that's fine but the following debunks Feingold's claims and somewhat vindicates Edwards.

It was written by Michael who I think is brilliant and an avid Edwards supporter.

Can you please email this to all your subscribers so we can clear the air. I had difficulties joining up or otherwise I would've included it in your blog.

The following is to "just" show that "all" the candidates have inconsistencies in their voting record. It's a gripe that you too have with Edwards and that's fair enough. But all is not what it seems...

On Jan 18, 2008 2:49 AM, Michael Conrad wrote:

Feingold is dead wrong on Edwards on EVERY count.

- Edwards voted for the Patriot Act, but he does not campaign AGAINST it. There were actually good elements to the Patriot Act, as well as A LOT of bad ones. Remember... even Paul Wellstone voted for the Patriot Act. Edwards wants to fix the Patriot Act and restore civil liberties. He has never said "I want to repeal the Patriot Act".

- No Child Left Behind... Pretty much every Dem (that I can remember) voted for it, because that was the faith they had in Ted Kennedy as an education advocate. There was a lengthy piece in Rolling Stone a few years back about how Bush screwed Kennedy on NCLB. If Kennedy had thought he could have beaten Bush in 04', I'm sure he would have ran himself. Edwards has said that we should "radically change" NCLB, and if it can't be fixed THEN we scrap it.

- China trade. Edwards is not campaigning against China trade. He never has. This is a matter of fixing, not scrapping. Edwards has always opposed NAFTA, and unlike Obama he opposed the Peru NAFTA - expansion.

- The war. First off, Edwards was wrong on his vote... which is exactly what he has been saying since late 05'. This, by the way, was right before I switched from supporting Feingold in 08' (we all thought he was going to run back then) to supporting Edwards.

Edwards supported Kerry - Feingold (timetable) in 06'. Obama and HRC voted no.

Endorsing Lieberman, Gregg Amendment, Feingold - Reid, Jim Webb's Iran legislation, calling for funding for the escalation to be cut off, cutting off funding for the war, criticizing Kyl - Lieberman.

In every instance Edwards was right, Obama was either cautious or wrong, and Clinton was wrong.

Feingold is distorting Edwards' position on every example he lists. Good one Russ.

On Jan 18, 2008 2:49 AM, Michael Conrad wrote:

Oh... and Obama DID NOT join to 10 or so Dems (Feingold was one of them), who voted AGAINST a slightly better version of the Patriot Act (it didn't go far enough).

And HRC did vote for the original. So if this is based on their positions, Feingold picking HRC and Obama over Edwards makes absolutely no sense.

Re: Debate Talk and My Questions to the Candidates

Jack Turner — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:33:00 -0000

Bruce, BlackAgendaReport has done a great job raising this question of military expansion. it's the basic assumption of almost all the candidates.

I have been planning to post Glen Ford's Democracy Now debate with Michael Eric Dyson. I even have the title of the post picked out.

Thanks for the reminder, and stay tuned. Appreciate it.

Re: Criminalizing Children Still A Problem In NYC

Jack Turner — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:50:00 -0000

THANK you for sharing this. thank you.

Re: Can Anyone See The United States Reacting This Way To Slavery?

Jack Turner — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:36:00 -0000

incredible post, dnA.

I'll put down some euros betting Germany will erect a monument for African-AMERICAN slavery before America does, just to show us up.

Not only is America's DNA programmed to forget past exploitation, but we as black people, separate from any official national/gov effort, have yet to fully acknowledge the pain and impact of a system like slavery.

We have emerged from a brutal phase in an ongoing abusive relationship, and we haven't begun to process it in a healthy way.

Re: Michelle Obama & Campaigning for Hillary (videos)

Jack Turner — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:40:00 -0000

@magatte

unfortunately, i don't actually have the raw video file to upload. i'm using this service called redlasso, and i can show video clips but now download and re-upload them to sites like youtube

one thing you and others can do is post this in the comments of any youtube videos that don't show the full segment

Re: Super Tuesday Results -Obama Wins 13 States

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:21:00 -0000

yes. we. can. rikyrah.

I was in an Obama campaign party in Manhattan part of the evening, and the New Yorkers were happy.

In his home state, Obama beat Hillary by 34 poitns

In her state, she beat him by 17.

Obama put a real hurtin on Hillary in some of those caucuses. Alaska (75-25), Idaho (79-17), Kansas (74-26).

Seriously, what did Clinton do to piss these people off so bad?

Finally, it's good to remember that Obama is running neck and neck against one of the most powerful names in American politics right now, and he's all but come out of nowhere to do it.

Edwards, time to stand and be counted son!

Re: Super Tuesday Results -Obama Wins 13 States

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:34:00 -0000

correction. he beat her by 32 points in IL.

Another big point. check out this comment from TPMelectioncentral via "independentmeans"

"I live in CA, 3 million absentee voters, my spouse and I voted for Edwards, if I had waited, he and I would today have voted for Obama. I believe this is a huge factor here, absentee ballots came out 3-4 weeks ago. I have written Edwards and asked him to support Obama as I had given money to his campaign. If the best this country can offer is Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, we are a sorry lot."

absentee votes for hillary before she started losing to Obama + absentee votes for edwards before he dropped out.

ok enough numbers

Re: Super Tuesday Results -Obama Wins 13 States

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:38:00 -0000

another possible explanation i've heard for the very large states going to clinton is those are big media markets where O didn't have time to ramp up his grassroots game. those states favor the top-down approach and build in a bigger cushion for the incumbent. at least that's the theory

others have said that her wins in big dem states is a sign of her general election chances, and i do NOT see that at all. I figure blue states will generally remain blue due to GOP incompetence, but reddish purple ones can be made more competitive by O

Re: Super Tuesday Results Open Thread

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:49:00 -0000

faboomama,

cali exit polls for latinos by age

60+ (81-17, clinton-obama)

45-59 (72-26)

30-44 (62-37)

18-29 (67-32)

so you can see some of that generational divide right there

Re: Super Tuesday Results -Obama Wins 13 States

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:58:00 -0000

more interesting conclusions, this from mydd's commenter cswartout:

"14-8 Obama

100,000 vote lead for Clinton

Delegates essentially even.

Unexpected wins for Obama - CT & MO

Nice wins for Obama - MN, NM, DE

Unexpected wins for Hillary - None

Nice wins for Hillary - Mass, NJ, CA, AZ

Crazy night."

Re: Super Tuesday Results Open Thread

Jack Turner — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:41:00 -0000

last post i swear

Posted by Mercedes Rodriguez on CNN:

The only reason latinos voted for Hillary is because many are first generation of immigrants who just see white or black and no other way. They do feel that problem among the blacks and latinos that most of the second and third generation of latinos don't feel. I personally voted for Obama. Never allowed my parents or anyone else to tell me who was best. I did my own research and felt that he is the best candidate. However, the spanish broadcasting channels did not give Obama a full coverage as they did for Hillary. My family up in New York were upset at me because I as a woman did not vote for her. I hope she doesn't get the nomination.

Re: Worried about SuperDelegates Hijacking Democracy?

Jack Turner — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:42:00 -0000

this is not surprising but it is oh so disappointing. if the movement obama seems to be leading/riding/leveraging is real, we won't allow this to happen.

clinton lacks anything in the way of grace, and it's so obvious that if she were to lose pledged delegates, she could do wonders for the battle against the GOP if she lined up behind O's campaign

i really hope this attitude of hers destroys her though. how can you already plan and announce that you will live in denial? it's too ugly for the kid.

Re: Correction: Obama Did Remove The 2002 Speech From His Website (Temporarily)

Jack Turner — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:25:00 -0000

Christian Progressive Liberal,

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

You wrote

Since I'm the chief reseearcher that does the leg work for CBC Monitor, I take exception to your remark that we use some speculation in holding CBC members accountable to their constituencies.

I wasn't saying your CBC monitor specifically used speculation though when I read it again, that IS what it looks like. Apologies

Here's what I wrote:

I've tried to address the specifics of this Clinton charge fairly and incorporated new information brought to my attention (thanks Bruce, seriously). Bruce and the folks over at BAG pride themselves on holding black leadership accountable. Just look at their no-holds-barred CBC Monitor. I respect their tenacity. Someone should do it, and they do it in a way that is grounded in information (and yeah, some speculation), but generally lacking in the unfounded, ugly and assinine charges coming out of the Clinton campaign (today's word is: plagiarism!). We should hold all politicians accountable with such ferocity.

I was actually making a more general remark (overwhelmingly positive) that BAR's work is very good. Where I DID see some speculation was in the pieces about Obama's ties to the DLC.

In BAR's reply to Obama's letter, you insist that he has "joined" the DLC despite his own claim that he had nothing to do with being listed in the 100 To Watch list. There seems to be no real way for you to know just how "in" with the DLC he is.

I also found this passage a little speculative...

His passion evaporated, a leading black candidate for the US Senate mouths bland generalities on war, peace and the US role in the world. Barack Obama, professor of constitutional law, is mum on the Patriot Act, silent about increased surveillance of US citizens, secret searches, and detentions without trial. His campaign literature and speeches ignore Patriot Act 2, which would detain US citizens without trial, strip them of their nationality and deport them to - wherever, citizens of no nation.

While he did remove the Oct 2002 speech, he did not cease speaking out against the war or Patriot Acts 1 & 2 in his speeches. At least he claims he continued to speak on it, and BAR offers no evidence to the contrary.

Overall, I find BAR's work informative, aggressive and heavily fact-based, but claims that Obama's "passion" has evaporated because he removed a speech from his site seem overblown in this case.

Thanks

Re: Obama’s Experience. A Message For Supporters And Doubters

Jack Turner — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:45:00 -0000

"justthefacts" you are providing anything but. in my post i cited two bills obama sponsored that became law. I repeat. The Google for Government one and the Obama-Lugar non-proliferation joint.

More are listed here

http://obama.senate.gov/issues/ethics_and_lobbying_reform/

i agree there is an email circulating that grossly confuses the legislative record of both candidates, but you have done nothing to clarify this issue and instead have injected further misinformation. That's something we cannot allow here.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Jack Turner — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:20:00 -0000

OMG AL SHARPTON JUST RIPPED IT, AND I MEAN RIPPED IT. i will pull that video along with Sheila Jackson Lee.

And the woman from Trans Africa. Anything else yall think I should pull?

Re: More SOBU: Jackson Lee Says Don’t Be Angry; Sharpton Kills; And More

Jack Turner — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:46:00 -0000

Al on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIapXSKKr2U

Re: Hillary Is Trying To Sabotage Obama In November

Jack Turner — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:10:00 -0000

@rikyrah, I actually posted that video yesterday right here

been throwing up MAD posts this weekend. will settle down when i get back to the j-o-b tomorrow. let me know if that's now what yall are tslking about

Re: Tavis Smiley, SOTBU, and Barack Obama - some final thoughts

Jack Turner — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:43:00 -0000

rikyrah, this post is amazing. will you be my cool hip black friend?

Re: Another Clinton Aide Compares Obama To Jesse Jackson

Jack Turner — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:33:00 -0000

i love the choices we have

A) a woman who will be the next president (Clinton)

B) a powerful spokesman (Obama)

i'm tired of defending O against the Clintons. it's really boring now. Bring on McCain already.

In fact, McCain should ask Hillary to step aside. She's Barack-blocking him.

Re: Two Ohio Debate Highlights From Obama

Jack Turner — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:47:00 -0000

just to be clear. my overall assessment is based on READING the transcript, so i missed all those verbal or visual cues.

Re: I Guess the Clinton Motto Is: If You Can’t Win Fairly, Change the Rules

Jack Turner — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:55:00 -0000

looks like i'm going to texas just in time. i arrive sunday at noon and will be there for two weeks, don't make me get up in people's faces.

Re: I Guess the Clinton Motto Is: If You Can’t Win Fairly, Change the Rules

Jack Turner — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:56:00 -0000

oh, and i'm working on a guide to canvassing for Obama right now. will drop in a few hours when more folks are awake.

Re: She’s Baaaaack. Stephanie Tubbs Jones On Ferraro (video)

Jack Turner — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:45:00 -0000

@terrence said

If Tubb-Jones had not spoken up against Ferraro, there would have been criticism, and now that she has spoken up on behalf of CBC Hillary supporters against Ferraro, she is (and they are) still catching flak.

You're right. I just don't like her. She's proven untrustworthy. There's pretty much nothing she can do at this point.

Re: DMX Is An Idiot

Jack Turner — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:25:00 -0000

@craig hickman

good point. i just didn't want to suffer alone

Re: Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick Charged With Perjury

Jack Turner — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:43:00 -0000

and all i can say is SHIIIIIIIIIIIT

this is looking like a clay davis situation

i just found out about Kwame's triflinness last weekend. dead strippers and THOUSANDS of text messages. then firing that dude for investigating. we need to get him out of the headlines FAST

Re: JJP Joins Day Of Blogging For Voter Justice, Asks Hillary To Step Aside

Jack Turner — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:42:00 -0000

D, that is basically true.

It's certainly true on pledged delegates. There are not enough left to go around for either to reach the magic number.

As for supers, if they start declaring en masse, they could lock up the nomination for one candidate or the other.

My larger point is that it's Obama who has the insurmountable lead, and to fight on despite no real chance of prevailing is ONLY destructive

Re: This Is What A Real Crazy, Inflammatory Black Pastor Sounds Like

Jack Turner — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:28:00 -0000

it's all good rikyrah! we fam!

as for funding that crazy bastard, i'm sure her earmarks show a lot about how she gets things done for the people of new york.

even if she didn't give him money, there must be a lot of embarrassing dirt in there.

this should also be a larger issue for her in the campaign because transparency seems to be major difference between them.

has she set a date for releasing her earmarks like the taxes or is she just not gonna do it?

perhaps it's time for more coordinated pressure

Re: Let’s Focus On Superdelegates OR Time For Some Time For Some Action!

Jack Turner — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:46:00 -0000

@anonymous 9:07

i actually was careful NOT to argue that superdelegates simply vote the way their districts do.

that's an oversimplified demand, in my view, that happens to benefit Obama overall, for now.

my case is to talk to the superdelegates in their role to ensure the viability of the party in November at all levels of government.

i don't know these people, but i have to believe some of them are as disgusted by the clinton campaign as some of us regular folks are. they need the political space to express that view though. bill richardson and donna brazile help. we can too

Re: Let’s Focus On Superdelegates OR Time For Some Time For Some Action!

Jack Turner — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:06:00 -0000

@anonymous

here's the entire thing i wrote

-----

4. Finally I suggest writing to super delegates committed to Hillary despite the fact that Obama won their district.

An example: Yvette Clarke is a superdelegate for New York's 11th congressional district. This is Brooklyn. Obama won 56 percent of the vote in this district, yet Yvette has pledged for Hillary. I suggest a respectful letter to her asking her to reconsider her support.

Be careful using this logic, however. There are plenty of superdelegates pledged to Obama despite the fact that their districts voted for Hillary. The case to be made is not simply that they should vote in lockstep with their constituents. That's too simple. It has to be a broader case about which candidate is best for the party and how the party is being damaged by the continued ugliness of the campaign. And how all this helps the GOP.

-------

i think i qualified the example of yvette enough. i hear your concern, but nothing i wrote can be interpreted as a simple call for her to vote with her district. it IS a call to vote her conscious. after we've applied some pressure to it.

thanks

Re: Obama On The View (videos)

Jack Turner — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:03:00 -0000

i still have only watched the first part, but her body language was kinda nasty

Re: Delusional Hillary Clinton Sees A Pattern

Jack Turner — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:23:00 -0000

Nicely done, Mr. Hickman. Nicely done

Re: Hillary Too Busy Dodging Sniper Fire To Pay Small Vendors, Health Care Bills?

Jack Turner — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:04:00 -0000

yeah craig, i took the bait on that one :)

and you're absolutely right. none of us would have been allowed to float that debt without a penalty of some sort. i already expect that rules are different for ANY high profile politician on that point though.

but of all the bills NOT to pay. HEALTH CARE

oh good lord. hope the remaining voters see all this.

Re: So Obama’s Lithuanian Too?

Jack Turner — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:51:00 -0000

i am amazed that america has lasted this long with such idiots setting the national agenda for and tone of political discourse.

and these fools are making a ton of money on top of that.

turn off this crap and turn on amy goodman. this is ridiculous.

Re: Today’s Handkerchief Head for Hillary - Emmanuel Cleaver

Jack Turner — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:30:00 -0000

ah, rikyrah you beat me to it.

Politico wrote about him earlier today. I found the FULL interview. It's more interesting than this quote that both Politico and Olberman pulled

Here's the interview

It's quite long. I started listening to it earlier in the day but have a job! Here are my partial notes. I stopped listening right as he started talking about Hillary but I was honestly impressed with his take on Rev. Wright and Obama.

------------

demonstration of how we do in fact have two americas

"wright reflects in his sermons in his theology what is experienced by many african americans"

"i think many african americans live vicariously through the expressions of jeremiah wright"

"it is an overreach to declare that sen. barack obama is satan's first cousin because [of the comments of his pastor]"

should obama have shunned the church?

"i have some appreciation for the fact that barack obama joined that church."

"that church has a long and rich history of being actively involved in the betterment of the chicago black community"

"this church does more than whip up people's spiritual emotions on sunday...they are actively involved in improving the community"

"we have now started measuring everyone by something we say is excluded from public life, that is religion"

"you are measured on your religion, and i think that's sick"

why clinton

1) long history with the clintons. my youngest son has jogged with her. it's a friendship

2) i believe she would be the best president

"i don't know senator obama."

-----------------

What Cleaver was very open and honest about is that a lot of these early black Clinton supporters chose her out of simple loyalty. They didn't know Obama, but they also didn't BOTHER to get to know him before making their judgments.

Clinton was the safe bet. She's married to Bill. It was easy. Now many of them are in an awkard position.

Where many have messed up is in slamming Obama relentlessly and unfairly. Or they go out and promote Hillary based on weak arguments. It's their only choice, though. They had no strong arguments FOR her other than the fact that they "knew" her and she was the safe bet.

They bet wrong, and now it's biting many of them in the ass.

feel free to update your post with all or some of my comments. I think it's important to provide folks a link to the full interview though. Cleaver isn't a simple HRC supporter slamming Obama. He sounded more honest than many black Clinton supporters I've heard.

Re: Dear Bill and Hillary, Please Stop Yer Bitchin

Jack Turner — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:50:00 -0000

@NMP good catch

allow me to "clarify" my statement.

i never paid as much attention to bill c as i have now. looking back, he was an OK president. Not the hero he's often lauded as. Not evil. He was probably "pretty good."

i do think there's a public transition where he flares up like this in front of dem delegates. of course he's shown a propensity to abandon supporters and throw folks under the bus, but the public red-faced nastiness feels new to me.

i could be wrong, but i do see a transition, if not in him, definitely in his public perception. he was untouchable, and now dems are publicly dissing him for his ranting, raving, destructive behavior.

THAT is a transition. Bill used to clear a room in a good way. I have a feeling it won't be like that after this is all over.

Re: Attn: Pentagon, I’m Going To Blog About Your Support Of Mass Rape

Jack Turner — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:56:00 -0000

D, you have cherry-picked the number 181 without addressing the clear, widespread sexual assault that occurs in the military.

You have cited codes of conduct with no reference to the ENFORCEMENT of said code.

I have not said that all military men are rapists, but how can you possibly avoid responding to the greater statistics.

Please read the salon article and the Stop Military Rape website. this goes FAR beyond 181 bad apples.

# 28-66 % of women in the military REPORT sexual assault

# 27 % of women are REPORTED raped in the military

you say "if these rapes are happening and not being reported, that's a crime." You clearly don't have an understanding of what it takes to report a rape, especially in a culture which PUNISHED the victim by discharging them or refusing to prosecute the rapist. Is it no surprise that many go unreported??

really, i'm shocked at your response. please read the links to what i've posted and come back with your view.

Re: CNN Post-Show, Ari Fleischer In The Green Room and More

Jack Turner — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:09:00 -0000

@francis. good lookin out on the widget. it doesn't quite fit in our template here. do you have the RSS feed for those items though. i *CAN* pull that in more easily and would love to promote fellow afrospheric voices.

Re: The Honorable War Hero McCain Doesn’t Support A New GI Bill

Jack Turner — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:37:00 -0000

Are you kidding!!?

He hasn't had the time?

This bill was introduced in JANUARY 2007. He's been the unopposed nominee for weeks now.

What is he doing? He's got very few attacks from Democrats. He's got no Republican challengers.

That is the weakest comeback. You mean to tell me that neither he nor his campaign nor his senate office has found time in the last FIFTEEN MONTHS

TO READ THE BILL.

try again homes

Re: We Are Now Officially At JackAndJillPolitics.com

Jack Turner — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:30:00 -0000

@truthseeker

i just added a comment feed! great idea.

from any post on the site, check the upper left column for the "RSS Feeds" section. There you will see options for a feed of posts and one of comments.

just to give them to you right here

http://feeds.feedburner.com/jackandjillpolitics

and

http://feeds.feedburner.com/jackandjillpolitics-comments

Re: Open Thread —- What’s Up?

Jack Turner — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:44:00 -0000

Meanwhile hillary has serious problems with men, serious problems with black folk and serious problems with all people of conscience.

goodbye democratic party

Re: Bill Clinton’s Ties to China—-show us the $$$$$$

Jack Turner — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:15:00 -0000

and to continue, this exposes the lie that she's been "vetted." She has not, as the Bosnia, Colombia, Wal-Mart and other stories continue to come out.

WHY IS NO ONE PRESSING HER ON JUST WHAT BILL CLINTON WOULD BE DOING?

It's like everyone is skating around this elephant in the room.

This is a legitimate concern that gets into issues of executive authority and transparency. You can't just laugh it off.

She needs to be forced to answer for this. The last time those two collaborated in the White House, it led to serious problems.

Re: Bill Clinton’s Ties to China—-show us the $$$$$$

Jack Turner — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:11:00 -0000

@heartsandflowers. excellent point about not letting the agenda be set by the MSM

It's harder to do than say. Much as I rant against the media, I know I'm complicit in continuing to empower them

I'm glad you recognize it and can see beyond it. There are many other topics I plan to explore beyond how wack Hillary et al are.

However, what I HOPE we accomplish here when we react to the MSM is to react with intelligence and opinion and maybe event facts that are missing from their narrative.

One of the parts of this job I love (and yes, it's a J-O-B) is being able to offer that antidote to the hype and the noise that runs our national political conversation. I know we don't always achieve it, but that's the goal.

thanks again

Re: Most Folks Don’t Care About Rev Wright "Issue" & Want Superdelegates To Go With The People

Jack Turner — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:46:00 -0000

B-Serious,

Love your comments. great analysis and opinion as always.

I've been having mad conversations about "the media's" role in all this. The challenge, I think, is that they won't be satisfied until they MAKE US DUMB.

The fact that new polls show no one cares about Wright doesn't matter to them because they are not here to serve the people. They have proven this time and again with issue after issue

Iraq is the most flagrant recent example. Despite MILLIONS of people protesting in the street, these folks would not place a single opponent of war on their networks.

Because of their irresponsible "reporting" we had majorities thinking Saddam and al-qaeda were practically bunkmates.

It will not stop when Obama is the next prez, I'm afraid. He will be the shiny new thing for them to poke at. All their ignorant racial fantasies will play out on national television, and we won't be talking about the need to restructure our unsustainable suburban infrastructure or our disease-causing, fossil-fuel dependent agriculture system or our dire shortage of nurses or our wrong-headed educational standards.

They'll talk about how the first lady gets her hair did and if there should be watermelon served at a state dinner and how Obama blinked, ACTUALLY BLINKED, during the pledge of allegiance. "THIS JUST IN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES REFUSED TO LOOK AT THE FLAG DURING HIS SWEARING IN."

They will continually jab the American people in the eye with ignorance-laden, distracting, "reporting," and then they will run a poll which shows, "SURPRISE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE IRRITATED."

That's what happens when you poke people in the eye.

Re: How Does Obama Do It?

Jack Turner — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:54:00 -0000

thank you so much craig for posting that. it gives me strength and confidence. sounds something like what I said too. clearly obama reads jack and jill politics!

all he had to do was recommend garlic capsules and we'd know for sure he's down.

i'm off to sleep in the sun. peace my people. peace.

Re: 50 Shots=Not Guilty

Jack Turner — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:35:00 -0000

my dear dnA and rickyrah. have you not seen the latest NYPD manual? It clearly states that black people are made of kevlar.

Re: About this ‘Electability’ Memo….

Jack Turner — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:18:00 -0000

here here rikyrah.

Re: Reverend Dr. Jeremiah Wright at the National Press Club

Jack Turner — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:26:00 -0000

co signing on to b-serious

Re: Reverend Dr. Jeremiah Wright at the National Press Club

Jack Turner — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:29:00 -0000

thanks all for the comments on my first real post "back" from the hillary virus which nearly wiped me out.

i agree that it's important to view the Q&A; differently because it's what was different. I watched the Moyers interview and the NPC speach (missed the NAACP).

I do wish he hadn't treated the NPC like it was his personal pulpit. He got a bit carried away in his responses.

But I also believe that had he spoken nothing but the queen's english and stayed very much "under control" the media would find another way to attack him.

It doesn't matter what he says or the context. It just doesn't matter.

Max Cleland lost his job because folks were made to believe that this Vietnam vet who left three limbs overseas was somehow "unpatriotic."

Rev Wright dodged the question on HIV/AIDS. He said he thought the gov was "capable" of anything. By not saying what he believed specifically with respect to his conspiracy statements on AIDS, he let that particular sound bite continue to fly.

Outside of that, I'm less concerned with his performance because he would have been interpreted as a performer regardless of what he said or did.

Cleary, my break was not nearly long enough. The world isn't exactly waiting for me to make sense of it :)

Re: Ok, Obama Did His Press Conference. Let’s Call Up Catholics, Clinton and McCain

Jack Turner — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:21:00 -0000

but b-serious, you can't... well, b serious.

i'm sure once the media finds out about the horrible statements by john hagee or the shady operations of hillary's church or the actions of thousands of catholic priests, why i'm just sure they will spare no expense in holding those candidates to the fire as they did with obama.

he's just lucky they got him out of the way first.

you need to have more faith in your media overlords, sir.

Re: NYT Editorial On Wright And Hagee

Jack Turner — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:20:00 -0000

Ms Martin,

we have posted about The Family, including linking to that very piece in the post prior to this one asking if Hillary will now be dragged forward for her connection to this strange religious group.

thanks for being such an active member here.

peace

Re: NYT Editorial On Wright And Hagee

Jack Turner — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:54:00 -0000

@truthseeker,

real quick point: nothing will shut the racists up. they are racists. the will retrofit any rationale over their preexisting reasoning.

i'm not weighing in on craig's suggestion, but i think this is a point we often miss in our political tactics. do something if you believe it will make a difference or simply because you believe it to be right. doing something so your most die hard opponent thinks favorably of you is futile. they'll still hate your ass but will make up a new reason :)

Re: John Hagee’s Crazy Ass And Why We Should Press McCain For More Answers

Jack Turner — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:05:00 -0000

D, I'm sorry. Were you trying to say that the fact that McCain distanced himself from these comments was somehow relevant? I'm sorry you're living in a word where facts and information matter. But in THIS world, NONE OF THAT MATTERS.

See, I'm in the media now, so I'll be back tomorrow hounding McCain on whether he thinks it's the job of American foreign policy to bring on the Rapture.

Good luck with your facts. They didn't do a damn thing for Obama.

Mr. Straight Talk has a lot of explaining to do. A lot more at least. Maybe when he's denounced the comments 1,000 times, maybe then I should let up. Probably not though.

I'm starting to QUESTION HIS JUDGMENT AND ABILITY TO DEFEND THIS NATION'S BABIES FROM EVIL BROWN TERRORISTS.

In fact, I don't think McCain shares the values this great nation. I may ask him about that as well.

Put on your seatbelts.

Re: John McCain And 100 Years In Iraq

Jack Turner — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:46:00 -0000

this is ridiculous. first of all, no one EVER EVER gives the democratic candidate the luxury of going into the detail and full possible meaning of what he REALLY MEANT.

McCain has to answer for this.

He said he's fine with us staying in Iraq for 100 years or longer as we've stayed in Korea. He also said he doesn't believe we can stay in Iraq like Korea. I posted BOTH videos because the man is now arguing with himself.

Second, he's foolish if he thinks we can peacefully remain in the holy land with our military for 100 years with no conflict.

Third, when does the clock start? We're at war now. Americans are dying now. How many years does it take for us to get to the steady state fantasy of his? 5 years? 10 years? 50 years?

He makes no sense.

He lashed himself to this war. He sings fun little songs about Bombinb Iran. He's the most irresponsible commander in chief of the three remaining candidates. WHO JOKES ABOUT BOMBING A COUNTY AND SINGS A SONG ABOUT IT.

No, McCain gets to quarter here, nor do his insane ideas nor his shady associations.

And for the record, I don't care if we are "at peace" in Iraq. *I* want our troops out. You think the people of Okinawa are thrilled with our presence and rape of their women?

Regardless of whether or not peace is possible *I* am against installing a base of operations for the military industrial complex in ANY MORE COUNTRIES.

So John McCain gets no slack from me on this.

none.

Let's send his ass over for the next 100 years.

Re: Let’s Talk About McClinton’s Terrible Gas Tax "Idea"

Jack Turner — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:00:00 -0000

@s, it's not $20 per month. it's an esimated $25 in savings for the ENTIRE summer. That's not nearly worth the savings.

@anonymous. You are right, Obama supported a similar tax relief EIGHT YEARS AGO.

I'd like to think he's gotten smarter since then. I know our energy situation has gotten much more desperate since then.

From a supply perspective, we are in trouble. Formerly exporting nations like Mexico are trimming exports and reserving more oil for domestic use.

The climate situation is much more perilous today. And as our GOP friends are fond of telling us, the security situation is "different" after 9/11.

We cannot afford the same old tricks. We cannot afford delay.

The American people don't need $25 credits. And even Obama is wrong if he thinks the American people need lower gas prices AT ALL.

Our addiction is subsidized by a vast military presence and by the imposition of our will on billions of people around the world. For what? So we can drive cars that get the same gas mileage today that they got THIRTY YEARS AGO.

We don't DESERVE lower gas prices. Our stuff needs to be costing $10/gallon, then maybe we'll be paying a "fair" price for this finite resource we seem to think we're entitled to.

Re: Surprise Surprise Hillary Lies To Hoosiers About Their Jobs (Updated Headline)

Jack Turner — Thu, 01 May 2008 09:28:00 -0000

@kid, you said "Rassmussen is quoting you as a source. You know they can't be trusted."

what are you referring to?

Re: INTRODUCING…..

Jack Turner — Mon, 05 May 2008 23:04:00 -0000

CPL. Welcome to the fam. I am so excited to have you on board, especially with your CBC experience. Welcome, welcome welcome!

I did a fundraiser for Rep Robert Wexler (D-FL) tonight, and he's one of the few in Congress with heart and balls enough to demand impeachment hearings for on the Constitution-violating activities of the Bush administration.

He's on the Judiciary Committee, and it seems Conyers, Sheila Jackson Lee and Maxine Waters are not down with looking into this.

If you have any insight, please share.

And thanks in advance for all your contributions to come.

Let's bring the ruckus!

Re: Rasmussen Calls the Democratic Race for Obama

Jack Turner — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:41:00 -0000

hey yall. can you be more specific about the tubbs jones interview

what always helps in pulling clips:

+ network

+ time aired

+ specific phrase said or guests.

so far i have the last piece but not enough to narrow it down.

thanks

Re: ABC Spreading Bad Info On Obama? I’m Shocked. SHOCKED!

Jack Turner — Wed, 14 May 2008 11:23:00 -0000

tiffany thanks for dropping by. let me take these on one at a time

(a) arguing with an old lady is kind of pointless and not a good look;

I disagree because I think you and I assume a different goal for the interaction. If the reporter's goal is to actually change the voter's mind, then yes, arguing with a racist old white lady is pointless. However, that's not the purpose of ABC News. Their job is to inform millions of OTHER citizens and by letting this false statement hang out there, she's not doing her job as a journalist.

(b) attribution is a way of maintaining at least the appearance of objectivity (which is why you hear "some say..");

I don't see the relevance of this point here AND I disagree with it. Inserting "some say" is a way to stir up UNATTRIBUTED controversy for lazy reporters and speakers who are addicted to rhetorical techniques that lack substance. In this specific case, though, that's not what happened, so I'm confused as to why you've mentioned it

(c) we don't know whether she more vehemently corrected the woman off-camera;

Again this doesn't matter. The only part of her reporting that matters to the millions of viewers is what is ON camera. She could have kicked the woman in the face and called her whole family racist. If you don't do it in the light of day, you didn't do it. If it's not in the story, it doesn't exist.

(d) *right* after the segment, diane sawyer said that it was erroneous.

I haven't been able to watch the rest of the segment because of some tech problems. I'll keep trying, but it's not in the clip I posted, and I let the full report play out. Sawyer then moved on to talk about how Obama and Clinton were both in NYC and might have a meeting. I heard no correction within the first few seconds.

Re: Johnny "Come Lately" Edwards To Endorse Democratic Nominee

Jack Turner — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:54:00 -0000

I hear you craig. and I'm not mad. just not that impressed. but it IS a good thing

anything that helps kill this white vote narrative is a good thing.

Re: Johnny "Come Lately" Edwards To Endorse Democratic Nominee

Jack Turner — Wed, 14 May 2008 19:03:00 -0000

pamela and craig, thanks for schooling me on the art of strategic timing.

i'm thinking edwards passed a certain window of endorsement after a few months. having waited so long (for whatever reason), BHO may have said, hold off till W VA.

yall are right about this jamming up Hillbot's news cycle. whatever screws with her is good.

thanks for the added perspective

Re: Clinton Staying in Race In Case Obama is Assassinated

Jack Turner — Fri, 23 May 2008 17:17:00 -0000

Jill, you called upon the Clinton campaign to clarify and apoligize.

You are too kind. The time for "clarification and apologies has long since passed.

She needs to go away. Make money giving speeches. Run a hedge fund. Anything else.

what a horrible person.

Re: Milkshakes Are Harder To Come By: Why Oil Costs Over $120 Per Barrel

Jack Turner — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:38:00 -0000

@hawa excellent question about record oil company profits.

here's a 2005 story responding to claims of price gouging by oil companies

the shorter answer is that the oil companies don't set the price, for one.

and their major use of funds is not in operating costs but in exploration and development.

the big outlays for this exploration and development was made years and years ago in most cases, and high demand has driven oil prices MUCH higher than anticipated. they made their investments with a much lower return built in, and now they are reaping the benefits.

they have a duty to shareholders to allow this to continue. so they could make significant and costly investments in other areas, but that would cut into the profits.

they are operating exactly as they were designed to and exactly as any rational company would.

Re: Milkshakes Are Harder To Come By: Why Oil Costs Over $120 Per Barrel

Jack Turner — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:43:00 -0000

@anonymous

precisely the right thinking.

we've set up an insane housing and planning system in this country that assumed cheap gas and ready access to cars. when gas is not $5 but $10 or $15 a gallon our society actually breaks.

hotlanta is a hot mess when it comes to this. No planning whatsoever. sprawl and 15 lanes of highway and no mass transit. that's a bad mix.

there are things we can do on an individual level, but we need national and even international level planning to deal with the most severe impacts.

pricing will change our behavior where goodwill and news reports could not. it's always been that way.

if you're in the market for a car, maximize that fuel efficiency or avoid the purchase altogether.

living anywhere that depends on a drive is a no-go.

expanding roadways and airport runways is a complete waste.

Re: Documentary Series Feat. Carl Pope and Van Jones

Jack Turner — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:39:00 -0000

bigassbelle,

someone still has to actually run the place after all the bullets have flown. we've had an armed revolution in this country. armed revolution itself doesn't solve the problems. it just changes the guard.

Re: Should Obama Pay Off Hillary’s Debts?

Jack Turner — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:56:00 -0000

this is a hard pill to swallow, and i'll look into the mechanics of how exactly the money flows.

i do know that none of the money you've given already can go to her, and I think it would have to be a separate fundraising effort to pay off her debt.

hillary was mad irresponsible and nasty in her use of funds. she hired overpriced consultants who ultimately failed her. she ran divisive direct mail campaigns. she really used this money in ways that were not at all good for the party or the country.

that said, this isn't about her. it's about reaching those supporters of hers who have been polarized by this campaign. it's about demonstrating a lot of what Obama talks about, which is being willing to negotiate with the enemy. it's about getting superdelegates not just to vote for obama but actively campaign for him.

so with all that said, i'm cool with him continuing to take the high road

Re: This Primary Campaign Has Brought Out The Best And Worst In Me

Jack Turner — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:00:00 -0000

thanks for these incredible comments yall.

i'll try to dip in and out throughout the day with some followups.

i definitely couldn't list ALL the offenses of the clinton camp, so don't take anything from me not listing MLK, assassination and other wrong statements and decisions.

I fully agree with Ms. Martin who wrote

Jack, it could very well be that Hillary Clinton & Co. took us (at least me) to a place we cannot come back from.

God I know that feeling, and many more of you have expressed something similar.

A lot of people never trusted, liked or respected The Clintons. I'm not one of those people. Watching them descend into ugliness has been painful and infuriating, especially as our own witness was called into question.

FOr Michelle, I really need to clarify.

I'm not trying to say I believe that all attacks on Hillary are sexist or attacks on you. I'm trying to see and express the frustration of a category of her own supporters.

I talked to a Hillary supporter who told me point blank that she only began to support Hillary as a defense mechanism against sexist media coverage. This person never bothered to understand our rage and sadness, and I never really bothered to understand hers.

I'll update the post to clarify that.

keep it coming fam!

Re: JJP Back On NPR: Obama, Bo Diddley, Confederate Flag (with Audio)

Jack Turner — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:45:00 -0000

ha val.

that says a lot that you forgot to mention her name. i think many of us will be doing the same over the coming months and years

Re: JJP Is At The National Conference For Media Reform This Weekend in MPLS

Jack Turner — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:35:00 -0000

the very same. if you click the links to each event you can see the bios of each of the folks listed as speakers.

Re: Barack Obama’s Inspiring Speech to His Staff

Jack Turner — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:56:00 -0000

nice catch jill. you beat me to it!

Re: What Do You Want To See At JJP?

Jack Turner — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:12:00 -0000

@Webb as far as I know we've never deleted a comment or post other than for tech reasons (that is, duplication).

I know it's our unstated policy not to delete things. Can you remember when this happened?

Re: What Do You Want To See At JJP?

Jack Turner — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:33:00 -0000

i second the cornbread shoutout. yall are wrong.

Re: Michelle Obama On The View - Open Thread (Updated with Video)

Jack Turner — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:24:00 -0000

thanks craig. i've been on the road so much for the past two weeks i haven't been posting as regularly. i'm getting back into the groove though. 'preciate it

Re: Michelle Obama On The View - Open Thread (Updated with Video)

Jack Turner — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:25:00 -0000

@karmi i have heard so many people say michelle is actually the better obama. in some ways this couple is similar to the clintons. remember how many folks were impressed with hillary, saying she was actually the smarter, better one?

anyway, thanks for the reporting yall.

i'll try to post the video this afternoon in this same entry

Re: Find the CBC Member…

Jack Turner — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:57:00 -0000

this is one of the best threads ever. wow. yall have jacked up my productivity today!

keep on pushing. i love the debate

D, good luck here bro :)